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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | I thought I would start this thread after seeing the thread posted: "Do fish feel pain?" equated to PETA.
I would first like to say that I am not an animal right's activist and have never been a PETA member and never will be. I'm sure I will be blasted for this post. However, here goes...
Some of what we hear is this: they are a bunch of nuts; they equate animal life to the lives of human beings! They are against hunting, fishing & animal experimentation. Some of them are against owning dogs and cats as pets. No zoos allowed; Never take an animal to a kennel - take them with you on vacation! Some claim that Jesus Christ never ate fish and he himself, was a vegetarian (wondering, how he fed the five thousand?). They do not eat meat, use animal products of any kind (I guess all they wear is tennis shoes?) and are all vegetarians themselves. They are indoctrinating our children to be anti-hunting and anti-fishing (no more Musky fishing?). On top of that, some of them have stolen animals from laboratories or thrown bombs to blow laboratories up in the past (actually, this was a group called the Animal Liberation Front). One last thing I would like to add: their executive vice-president was fired two weeks after being hired because the came to work (Norfolk, Va. headquarters) wearing a leather coat - true story!!
All of the above statements are true in some form or other. Now here are some positive things about them:
In 1981, I was part of a team of police officers serving a search warrant on a federally subsidized laboratory in Silver Spring, Maryland. We were assisted in the handling of the animals by well known PETA members, Alex Pacheco and Ingrid Newkirk. Both, I believe are still high ranking in the organization today.
As a result of the investigation, the laboratory lost its' federal funding because they were mistreating monkeys, not only during experiments, but in their everyday treatment. This was the first time that a Federally-subsized lab was held accountable for animal treatment! Experiments included shocking them, disabling body parts (arms and legs)and poor living conditions such as poor food and filthy cages. On top of that, no affection whatsover was given these poor helpless creatures who would bite their own fingers or toes off due frustration by the way they were being treated. These animals were shown no respect whatsover!! An example of that lack of respect kind of jumped out at me when I found a severed monkey hand on the lab director's desk being used as a paperweight!! I also found dead monkeys floating in chemicals inside a barrell (a barrell of monkeys!!! ), stacked like cord wood. This itself, was a danger to the employees themselves.
This well-funded organization has thrived since then, with thousands of members all over the world including a lot of very well known people. Although most of them do not agree with animal experimentation at all, their activities have resulted in better treatment of animals and more healthful working conditions for laboratory employees that experiment on animals. In addition, some forms of experimentation have changed (ex. - crash dummies in cars instead of pigs; other methods of testing gunshot wound impact other than shooting pigs, etc.)and the devlopment of better artificial fur. I also believe that a lot of us (myself included) are more aware (because of PETA) that we should respect animals and threat them well. I think that this is especially true about hunters and fisherman.
Some of these people ARE nuts - some aren't. Do not underestimate them - they will not go away.
Ready to be blasted - thanks, Tom
Remember...Fish don't live in ugly places!:P
Edited by muskiekid 2/27/2003 7:48 AM
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| There is a fine line between fighting for a cause and becoming a fanatic; many who start out supporting a worthy cause sometimes end up becoming fanatical, and the end result is extremism. This can and does occur in any and practically all organizations, and close watch and accountability w/in any certain group must be conducted to prevent this type bizzare behavior. It is up to the leaders of said groups to "police" their ranks; if the leaders themselves become "infected" w/ a fanatical attitude, they will attract/recruit those of like mind. One thing these groups realize is that many folks are on a fence, and have little knowledge/idea of different organizations; they play on the emotions and many are easily swayed by the media, TV and bulk mailings. Basically it amounts to how the "ideas" are packaged and presented to the general public. I've always thought it odd that during "peace rallies", the freaks ended up fighting and busting up both public/personal property, thus labeling themselves as hypocrites, doing the very thing they say they are attempting to prevent. A known fact also is that a core group of individuals can arouse the ire of many innocent bystanders/passer byers, resulting in a major riot/confrontation as the instigators slip away from the crowds. Dealing w/ any group that becomes fanatical requires patience and tact; knowing your stuff helps alot too! |
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | Hey Sponge: thanks for your response. I agree with you - I think from now on it will be: Sponge Squarepants, Ph.D.
Edited by muskiekid 2/27/2003 8:37 AM
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| No PHD, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night...on a rare occasion I enjoy shedding the cloak of village idiocy and pretending to be somewhat serious and knowledgable in various topics; that way when I peer over the edge, I can refer back to a post or two and realize I have a reserve cell or 2 left to burn out at a later date... |
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| I don't think it had to take a PETA member to help out with your investigation of that lab. I think it was just an opportunity seized by that group. PETA IS a bunch of wacko's. Just when our state(WI) is considering lowering the legal BA limit from, .10 to .08, PETA comes out and wants to change the State's official beverage from milk to beer! I bet that went over big with another fantical group called MADD.
You are right, though. PETA and groups like it, will not go away. Once they get their foot in the door, there is no stopping them. They show absolutely no common sense. These are the same people who used nailers to put spikes in the road to disrupt the annual deer hunt several years ago. They are incapable of sound reasoning.
They are against hunting, because it is cruel to the animals. Next time you get a very severe winter, take one of your PETA buddies out to the local deer yard, and let them see first hand, the suffereing a starving deer herd endures.
Are they the enemy? Yes. To sportsman, to pet owners, and to the very animals they try to protect.
Edited by Shep 2/27/2003 9:51 AM
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Have to agree with Sponge on this one..Well said.
I think most here would agree that neglagent mistreatment of any animal is not right. Frankly I don't understand how people can even work in a laboratory like that and I cringe at the sight of puppy mills and other such places.
Most ethical sportsman belong to oranizations and do more good for the resource than most of the "anti's" could even fathom.
Bottom line....respect all of God's creatures, including each other.
As a civilized society and sportsman with ethics if we are going to take the life of another animal for the use of food we owe it to ourselves and the resource to practice and be proficient with the tools we use. The end result is ensuring a quick and clean kill when choose to hunt or fish.
If we all act responsibly and ethically the fanatical views held by some will really not have ground to stand on. However due to the irresponsibility of many who consider themselves "sportsman" the anti's get a little more evidence to support their arguments every year....
Even small things like leaving candy bar wrappers in the woods drives me nuts and it isn't responsible or right. But every year I see more and more of it on the public lands I hunt. I pick up what trash I see but it makes little difference other than making me feel a little better at the time.
For those of you who don't scuba dive...you should see what the bottom of our lakes look like...Yes most of the lakes we all fish look like garbage dumps on the bottom..!!! It's sad and it sickens me when I see it. But because most of us can't see it we believe it isn't a problem.
I beleive in our rights and freedoms as Americans to make choices for ourselves and veiw our own opinions. But it is not the governments place to dictate whether or not we can choose to hunt or fish or can eat certain things or wear certain clothes.
"Self government witout self discipline will never work"... we are certainly proving that in many ways as a society. A little too much greed and self centered thinking.....
Remember the "Three R's" they didn't teach you in school...
Responsibility
Respect
Resource
Sorry for getting on a soapbox.... |
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Location: Washington, PA | All Bad, I doubt they are. BUT, at the end of the day anyone trying to take my fishing and hunting rights away = enemy. |
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | Thanks for your comments. I expect to get many more (I posted it on all of the major boards). Some of the responses kind of make me chuckle or smile at times. Nothing wrong with that.
However, whether you smile or not at some of the comments, those comments do show how some people take them very seriously. If you don't - watch out. They are very serious about what they are doing and will not go away. |
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | For your clarification: These people aren't my buddies. As a matter of fact, I agree - some of them are kind of nutty.
As far as the investigation goes...they were not part of it. They were there to help us move the animals. This was the first action of its type in the US by anyone! Pacheco (formerly worked on a whaling ship) and Newkirk (at the time) were Humane Society Officials and experts at handling monkeys. Without their help, the animals would have hurt themselves (or us) out of frustration. These were not "pets" but animals that had been treated so badly that I couldn't even use a flash to take their picture without them biting their fingers or toes off. Most of the monkeys were taken to the National Institues of Health Farm in Poolesville, Maryland after we seized them. Some were taken to Texas for care and were later kidknapped (monkey-knapped?) by animal lovers to protect them. Most either died or were euthanized because they could not adapt to normal living condtions and were either a danger to themselves or anyone handling them. PETA members at that time felt that the animals were better off dead than living in the condition they were in.
Edited by muskiekid 2/27/2003 11:42 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Thankfully, the sportsmen and women numbering in the millions across our country are just as serious about what we represent, and will protect our fishing and hunting rights with extreme vigor. I have had up close and personal contact with some of what, by the definition given, must have been the lunatic fringe of PETA. The behavior they exhibited was absolutely beyond the pale. I consider myself a very passive individual, and was near reactionary; exactly what they wanted. Fortunately, the State of Wisconsin has since put laws into place that prohibit that kind of ridiculous behavior, so I may now hunt and fish in peace. I am not by ANY means a radical right winger, but if this group is to gain even a tiny bit of consideration from me, they will have to begin by using truth instead of total fabrication in the anti fishing approach they have adopted. Enemy, all the way, and one that bears watching.  |
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| Daggone dude! Ever heard the saying a "monkey on your back?" Well it contains some truth, as in the back of almost all fishing/hunting mags. you could order a pet squirrel monkey for $16.95; remember those? Peeps from all over got them, and they were fairly popular back in the late 60s early 70s. I never got one..a buddy of mine did and it whizzed on his shoulder, bit him in both ears and would pull hair; the local zoo would take them because peeps couldn't handle the critters. I assume that they were deemed incorigable and made illegal to possess.
To show how stupid the PETAS can be, 2 yrs. ago they came to the city to protest a circus, and had a near "neck-ed" chick in a cage...indicating they had more respect for an animal than a girl. The local news had a field day w/ that one, and the group receievd a mouthful from the womens rights group...one dummy fighting another...go figure...just more reason to realize we will never be able to say "now I've seen it all".... |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Til I about 5 minutes agao I always thought that there was some NEED for the super-radical views of PETA to offset people with absolutely no care for animal/conservation issues. Then I saw this: http://www.masskilling.com/
There is a line you can cross, they just did.
Slamr
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Exactly my point, Slamr. These folks are out PAST the fringe. the piece you point to is inexcusable, plain and simple. Anyone with even the slightest tinge of self respect wouldn't go where they did on a bet. Turkeys equate to human beings?? not.. |
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Posts: 229
Location: Willoughby, Ohio | Do a few isolated commendable acts make PETA a good organization? Well, I'm sure Charles Manson sent someone a Christmas card once as well..... |
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | I'm sure you heard this, however I will post a watered-down version. Watered down because I don't want people picketing my house here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland!
A guy walks into a bar with a monkey on his shoulder. The bar-tender asked him..."what's that?" The guy says: "spare parts." |
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| Gooder one dude! I'm sitting here chuckling and can only imagine the rest...monkey is edible but the meat is somewhat stringy...been a LONG time.  |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Believe it or not....PETA is trying to bring a case (literally) to the WI Supreme court making Beer the official drink of the state. They claim that milk is one of the leading causes in heart disease, obesity and miscellaneous ailments, not to mention it comes from an animal. However, these hypocrites fail to mention anything at all about the negative effects of alcohol such as liver disease, Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome, loss of friends and family, fatal accidents.....DEATH!! Yes I like to drink and know the associated risk involved, but these people need to get a clue! |
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| As a fat, milk-drinking guy from Wisconsin with heart problems, I agree with PETA. Beer is the official drink of Wisconsin, as least on the week-ends!!! |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I have absolutely no problem with any form of vegetarians.....more power to them for being healthy but.....I fail to see the parallel with eating meat and the Holocaust. I have only a little knowledge of Jewish custom and religion in general but I do know that meat goes through a process to become Kosher at the processing facility, this is an act of blessing the meat!! Would any of the awesome deli's that serve mouth watering pastrami exist if they compared the meat processing to the Holocaust....I think not. Shalom! |
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| YES THEY ARE! Peta doesn't care if we produce less meat and people STARVE..as long as the chickens are happy free ranging bait for the foxes.
Anyone with a pet/friend/hunting buddy DOG or even a house cat should know that peta should know that they will outlaw pets if they have their way. "it is cruel to keep a pet in the house!" They are way too radical to give even an inch to because it gives them Miles! (peta = people eating tasty animals?) I headr a great story a while back about some PETA loudmouth (is that redundant?)spouting off about a pony that was giving children rides. She was yelling about the poor animal and that it was pregnant, about to give birth and how could you..blah..blah. Then the male pony dropped about 18 inches of his manhood to relieve himself. So much for the pony being pregnant. It gets better tho, some guy yells out..It is pregnant and its water just broke! HA HA the peta creep faded into the crowd. |
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| I was pissed and I'm not even Jewish..lookie what my wife just showed me....(CNN) -- The Anti-Defamation League has denounced a campaign by an animal rights group that compares slaughtering animals to the murder of 6 million Jews in World War II.
sorry it is not a clickable link, copy and paste it..
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/28/peta.holocaust/index.htm...
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | How about the college professor that stated if he were in a boat with an animal and human being and it started to sink - he stated he would save the animal.
Sponge: wondering something...the girl in the cage...was she good looking?They also have a Peta calendar with a naked woman (movie star, I think) posing in it.
Stonewall Jackson was a one-armed Musky fisherman!!!
Edited by muskiekid 2/28/2003 4:46 PM
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| YES she was indeedy, but don't think she was a Hollywood product; a local east coast girl I believe. I saw her on the news being interviewed. From what I can gather, many of these folks were/are searching for a place to feel needed and/or belong, and these organizations meet that need unfortunately.... |
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | If that were the case, we could eat them too.
FYI: Monkeys make great spare parts for some people!!! |
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Posts: 585
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland | How do you guys like my new image on the left? Of course, it added it to all of my other posts.
Edited by muskiekid 3/2/2003 5:51 AM
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Posts: 4266
| Here's a couple of quotes right out of the Bible. I beleive God outranks any PETA member.
And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems and every winged bird and God saw that it was good. God blessed them ans said "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the waters of the sea and let the birds increase on earth.
And God said "Let the land produce living creatures to all kinds: livestock creatures that move along the ground and wild animals. God made wild animals according to their own kinds and livestock animals according to their kinds, and all the creatures that crawl on the ground according to their kinds and God saw that it was good.
Then God said "Let us make man in our own image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the air, over the livestock,over all the earth and over all creatures that crawl along the ground."
So God created man in his own image. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
And from Gods Covenant with Noah....Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea, they are given to your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."
And I for one am thankful and I am not going to let some animal rights activist tell me different.
Beaver |
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PETA - are they really the enemy?