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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/02.26.2014/6626/Unveiling....
Edited by Larry Ramsell 2/27/2014 7:51 AM
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| "Obviously, the current Hayward "powers that be" still wish to promote these bogus record fish merely for the tourism draw they feel they still have. However, today's serious trophy musky anglers know better! C'est la vie."
Good article Larry! Let the obvious truth be told to all... the past "records" are a joke.
Whiskey must have been pretty dam.n good back then.
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Location: Northern Illinois | Nice read. I wasn't aware of all those details & shannanagins going on w/those
fish. Very interesting.....thanks for sharing. I guess now we know where those
traits for exaggerating fish size come from..... it's been passed down thru the ages. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Larry, you forgot to mention the "pelvic fin drift" explanation that Dettloff claimed on the Johnson mount! I always found that one funny. |
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Location: South Central Wisconsin | Good article Larry. Lots of info there I never knew!
BTW, remind me to have you present when I weigh in my 70 pounder this next fall! |
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Location: Hudson, WI | All that said, it's still my favorite place for a musky trip. Love that area. |
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| The scam works though, that's the sad part. After catching my first muskies and getting hooked I did research (as an uneducated beginner) to find a great adventure... what better draw then "Hayward, musky capital of the World!". I made two trips up there largely based on the legend and lore of the area... and how many more people have done the same over the decades? In that light it makes sense so many people would work to protect the false claims. In hindsight I don't regret going, it's a beautiful area with lots of decent musky lakes... but clearly not any more exceptional fishing then dozens of other areas, and less so in regards to trophy fish.
Edited by musky-skunk 2/27/2014 9:37 AM
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Location: oswego, il | Not alot of new info but still a great read and lets people know the truth. Agree Hayward is a great place to vacation and offers some good fishing.
Edited by ToddM 2/27/2014 9:32 AM
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Location: Perryville, MO | Thanks, Larry! Where do we send our continued "shame on you" letters for the characters involved in these shams!? |
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| ----- muskies dont reach 60"s or 60 lbs ------ jimjimjim |
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| I dont know man, I've seen to many 56-58"ers over 50lbs to think that there can't be a 60" down there somewhere.i gotta believe there's some big ones in the Larry that have never seen a lure yet. There's some big dark scary lookin water up here in the great st Larry bud |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | jimjimjim - 2/27/2014 12:00 PM
----- muskies dont reach 60"s or 60 lbs ------ jimjimjim
Don't bet anything you need |
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| jimjimjim - 2/27/2014 11:00 AM
----- muskies dont reach 60"s or 60 lbs ------ jimjimjim
Maybe.. Maybe not
A few 57s have been caught on film in the last few years..
One on a Medussa, one on a pounder, and one on a 14 inch jake that I can think of.. Definately know of a few that seem believable that only had pics instead of video too..
I doubt those were the biggest on earth.. And I doubt they've shrunk since then
Edited by Jason Bomber 2/27/2014 12:56 PM
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Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | As one that used to tell my new bride I would be home Sunday night as I was headed out to fish a local lake. Then pedal as fast as I could go to Hayward & the Flowage for the weekend. Many times over completely taken in by the BIG Fish Waters. My PB did come from the Flowage the third year of running there. I can only enjoy immensely the report Larry! It took along time to learn the MAGIC isn't in the water, it's in the great fish itself! Jake |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | jimjimjim - 2/27/2014 11:00 AM
----- muskies dont reach 60"s or 60 lbs ------ jimjimjim
I wouldn't be so sure on that Jim... Especially on the length...
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| There have been too many fish close to that magical 60"/60# mark for me to believe there isn't one out there somewhere. I doubt we'll ever be catching them with any regularity, as that's truly a once in a lifetime fish. But I expect one to be caught over the next several years. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's exactly what was said a few years back. Apparently there are not numbers of 60# fish, and certianly are not....welllll....any 70#out there now. Not yet anyway. I do believe 60# will be officially broken eventually. I'd love to see the 70# mark reached, but since it never has been, I am not going to be holding my breath. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Good Read … thanks Larry! |
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Location: oswego, il | sworrall - 2/27/2014 1:48 PM
That's exactly what was said a few years back. Apparently there are not numbers of 60# fish, and certianly are not....welllll....any 70#. Not yet anyway. I do believe 60# will be officially broken eventually. I'd love to see the 70# mark reached, but since it never has been, I am not going to be holding my breath.
Steve, if you do decide to hold your breath, give that 400 yard dash a try! |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | jimjimjim - 2/27/2014 12:00 PM
----- muskies dont reach 60"s or 60 lbs ------ jimjimjim
False.. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Right now I couldn't run 400 yards if I had to. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | While this horse has been dead for some time, and I personally don't care which authority recognizes which record, I'll believe the fish entered into Larry R's program moving forward. With that said I used to go into the moccasin just to view the Johnson fish. As an early 20something I believed that fish was 'the one'. I was disappointed 10-15 years ago to learn all/most of the old records were bunk, but I never did get back into the bar to really study the fish. The picture of the mount in Larry's article here, shows just how obviously transparent the tail augmentation is in the mount. Who was the taxidermist? I have a 15" crappie mount that I'd rather was 17" and want to have it ready for an open house. |
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| ------ show me one on a bump-board ------- |
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| I'd say the WMRA's data over the last several years is a good place to start with determining how large muskies really do get. It only takes one good meal from where we're at currently. Granted a fish with a full belly may not as be easy to catch, but... It will be interesting to see what the fishing looks like over the next several years with some more normal weather patterns settling in. |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | jimjimjim - 2/27/2014 3:36 PM
------ show me one on a bump-board -------
let me go dig one out of the closet, i know ive got a couple kickin around lol... |
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| The recent world record fish from michigan was 58" and 58lbs. Although this is certainly at the larger end of the spectrum, I seriously doubt that's truly the biggest musky in the world. Another 2" or 2lbs is not a huge reach. |
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| Another 2 inches is about 3.5%, that is a big jump. Is it possible? sure, but 3.5% increase on the largest documented is a big jump. BR |
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| Another way to look at is, how much growth per year does a 57 inch fish experience and how much longer would they have to live to reach it? Do muskie start to shrink with old age? Curious? Thanks. BR
Edited by BenR 2/27/2014 4:28 PM
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Location: oswego, il | BenR - 2/27/2014 4:27 PM
Another way to look at is, how much growth per year does a 57 inch fish experience and how much longer would they have to live to reach it? Do muskie start to shrink with old age? Curious? Thanks. BR
one thing for sure they may soon have the option to move to Arizona! |
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| , even though there hasn't been a legitimate musky caught from the Hayward area over 48 and a half-pounds since the 1939 to 1949 rash of four false area record claims were made!
Was Jerry Nelson's 48 1/2 # fish in 1993 from Round Lake not real? I saw it and it sure looked that big. Just curious if there was any false claims to that one? |
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| FYGR8 - 2/27/2014 4:51 PM
, even though there hasn't been a legitimate musky caught from the Hayward area over 48 and a half-pounds since the 1939 to 1949 rash of four false area record claims were made!
Was Jerry Nelson's 48 1/2 # fish in 1993 from Round Lake not real? I saw it and it sure looked that big. Just curious if there was any false claims to that one?
It says over 48.5 lbs... |
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| Plenty of big fish to be had in Hayward. You just have to know how/where/when to fish them. Kieper and I discussed at the Milwaukee show this year how he's had over 100 fish over 50 in the boat from our area in the last decade. A couple over 45 lbs. Last year was a tough year in Wisconsin due to late ice out and the yo-yo weather patterns but we still managed to put some really nice fish in the boat. Hayward's definitely tougher to get the big fish than Green Bay or St. Clair but look at where you're fishing. Who wants to be surrounded by buildings/traffic and piles of people when you're fishing muskies? Yeah you've got a better shot at stickin a hawg on those bodies of water but is that really all musky fishing is about?
Here's a nice Hayward fish we got last October:
Attachments
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 Pig.jpg (21KB - 170 downloads)
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| Michah thats a friggen slob!! And Keiper has the footage to back it up! Lite a fire under his butt for me to get Small Pond Monsters 2 out!!!! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Footnote:
No matter what side of the World Record issue you are on, this battle is an old one. John Dettloff will be talking about the World Record Muskies this weekend at the Wisconsin Muskie Show, if you want to hear his perspective 'live', visit the show and take in his seminar. |
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| I'm sure there are 45-50 Lb fish in the Hayward area.. muskies get that big  |
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Location: Richland Center, WI. | sworrall - 2/27/2014 5:59 PM
Footnote:
No matter what side of the World Record issue you are on, this battle is an old one. John Dettloff will be talking about the World Record Muskies this weekend at the Wisconsin Muskie Show, if you want to hear his perspective 'live', visit the show and take in his seminar.
And here I thought it was a coincidence that Larry brought this up now. Guess he is helping to put butts in the seats for John's seminar. Brilliant! 
Ken |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | I believe that a guy boated a 59" Slob out of Vermilion Dam Lodge about 4 -5 yrs ago while Trolling (Released) ...I saw the pics, so it must be true..
There ARE 60" fish out there.... And some may be caught this Season.... |
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| BenR - 2/27/2014 4:56 PM
FYGR8 - 2/27/2014 4:51 PM
, even though there hasn't been a legitimate musky caught from the Hayward area over 48 and a half-pounds since the 1939 to 1949 rash of four false area record claims were made!
Was Jerry Nelson's 48 1/2 # fish in 1993 from Round Lake not real? I saw it and it sure looked that big. Just curious if there was any false claims to that one?
It says over 48.5 lbs...
It says SINCE the 1939 to 1949 rash. I am talking 1993. |
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| Read it again, has not been one OVER 48.5.... |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI |
Come on Micah, everybody knows there aren't any big fish in the Hayward area. Shhhhhh...
Langkamp's Guide Svc - 2/27/2014 5:16 PM
Plenty of big fish to be had in Hayward. |
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| Mr Musky - 2/27/2014 5:47 PM
Michah thats a friggen slob!! And Keiper has the footage to back it up! Lite a fire under his butt for me to get Small Pond Monsters 2 out!!!!
Thanks. Last time we spoke he told me he's got the footage & just needs the time to piece it all together. |
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| To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one. |
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Location: central Wisconsin | fishingfrenzy - 2/28/2014 5:34 AM
To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one.
You are not the only one. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Jeff78 - 2/28/2014 7:30 AM
fishingfrenzy - 2/28/2014 5:34 AM
To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one.
You are not the only one.
Same here. And I am especially not at all interested in the "me versus him" aspect of the debunking of old records that have been wholely discredited years ago. It becomes a soap opera of grumpy old men slinging limp arrows at each other. |
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Location: Not where I want to be! | fishingfrenzy - 2/28/2014 5:34 AM To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one. Really Larry! I personally could care less who caught it, where, or the size of the world record!! It's possible that most seasoned anglers really could care less. I fish for muskies for the excitement and enjoyment of the hunt. Why don't we lower the record to say 25# and then we can all leapfrog for the next year to 50# Then let the bickering begin. Who cares. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Those of you who aren't interested in the "record" stats ok, but a lot of other people seemed to enjoy reading it. World record
musky information seems relevant to me on a "musky" forum website.
Edited by Fishen-ski's 2/28/2014 8:31 AM
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Location: central Wisconsin | Fishen-ski's - 2/28/2014 8:21 AM
Those of you who aren't interested in the "record" stats ok, but a lot of other people seemed to enjoy reading it. World record
musky information seems relevant to me on a "musky" forum website.
I do care about the record, when I was a much younger man starting out musky fishing I would drag my family to Hayward to go to the Mocassin Bar to look at Cal Johnson's fish thinking someday.
As time went on and Lawton got discredited and Spray and all the others it just didn't seem that important to me anymore. It was a different time.
Most people accept that these people lied and or exaggurated to collect on a $50 prize. Whats done is done, people in the know are trying to establish a new record. It does not have to be rehashed every winter. |
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Location: Kansas City BBQ Capitol of the world | History is written by the ones that won the wars. Dettloff won the war.
Thank you for posting this.
Ron. |
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| I thought the spring conservation congress voted on the records? |
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| rjhyland - 2/28/2014 9:22 AM
History is written by the ones that won the wars. Dettloff won the war.
Thank you for posting this.
Ron.
I don't see that at all, most people realize the records are a joke. Terrible legacy he is creating for himself. Who wants to be know like that? BR |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI |
Amen Slamr !
Slamr - 2/28/2014 8:05 AM
Jeff78 - 2/28/2014 7:30 AM
fishingfrenzy - 2/28/2014 5:34 AM
To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one.
You are not the only one.
Same here. And I am especially not at all interested in the "me versus him" aspect of the debunking of old records that have been wholely discredited years ago. It becomes a soap opera of grumpy old men slinging limp arrows at each other. |
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| dfkiii - 2/28/2014 9:39 AM
Amen Slamr !
Slamr - 2/28/2014 8:05 AM
Jeff78 - 2/28/2014 7:30 AM
fishingfrenzy - 2/28/2014 5:34 AM
To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one.
You are not the only one.
Same here. And I am especially not at all interested in the "me versus him" aspect of the debunking of old records that have been wholely discredited years ago. It becomes a soap opera of grumpy old men slinging limp arrows at each other.
Yes, that goes without saying, but all that stuff aside, it is super silly to still promote these fish as real. It is like teaching the earth is flat. BR |
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Location: Richland Center, WI. | BenR - 2/28/2014 9:49 AM
dfkiii - 2/28/2014 9:39 AM
Amen Slamr !
Slamr - 2/28/2014 8:05 AM
Jeff78 - 2/28/2014 7:30 AM
fishingfrenzy - 2/28/2014 5:34 AM
To be frank, I thought the article was lousy. Larry, why is this so important to you? I don't care what the record is, or who caught it. Maybe I'm the only one.
You are not the only one.
Same here. And I am especially not at all interested in the "me versus him" aspect of the debunking of old records that have been wholely discredited years ago. It becomes a soap opera of grumpy old men slinging limp arrows at each other.
Yes, that goes without saying, but all that stuff aside, it is super silly to still promote these fish as real. It is like teaching the earth is flat. BR
So maybe go out and promote the fish you think are real, the one the new record organization recognizes. To continue to bash the old records, Hayward and Dettloff get's a little old after a while! |
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| Ah, heck. Hayward promoting dubious world records is fine by me. Anyone who's looked objectively at the evidence knows that the records are false...but towns can and should promote whatever claim to fame might happen to be....Elmwood, WI has its "UFO Days", after all. Maybe we should sponsor a study to disprove those extra-terrestrial sightings in Elmwood so that Elmwood is also not "teaching that the world is flat", so to speak. |
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| Hayward area kicks out some serious hogs. I will visit again at some point, I love that area and the truth is it has some great low pressure scenic musky fishing with the chance at some top tier fish.
Small pond monsters 2? Yeah I'd buy that. First one was a great watch.
Edited by musky-skunk 2/28/2014 10:06 AM
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| Matt DeVos - 2/28/2014 9:58 AM
Ah, heck. Hayward promoting dubious world records is fine by me. Anyone who's looked objectively at the evidence knows that the records are false...but towns can and should promote whatever claim to fame might happen to be....Elmwood, WI has its "UFO Days", after all. Maybe we should sponsor a study to disprove those extra-terrestrial sightings in Elmwood so that Elmwood is also not "teaching that the world is flat", so to speak. :)
You can actually make a legitimate case for UFO's, so you are really comparing apples to oranges:-) |
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Location: Wisconsin | musky-skunk - 2/28/2014 9:59 AM
Small pond monsters 2? Yeah I'd buy that. First one was a great watch.
In my best raspy voice " We are here in Northern Wisconsin......"
The first one is a great DVD, it is a lot of fun to watch, especially when you are in Hayward viewing it knowing that come sunrise you will be on the water trying to catch one !! Hope he releases #2.
Micah, awesome fish, that pic is sweet, and don't worry I won't name the spot!!
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| BenR - 2/28/2014 10:05 AM
Matt DeVos - 2/28/2014 9:58 AM
Ah, heck. Hayward promoting dubious world records is fine by me. Anyone who's looked objectively at the evidence knows that the records are false...but towns can and should promote whatever claim to fame might happen to be....Elmwood, WI has its "UFO Days", after all. Maybe we should sponsor a study to disprove those extra-terrestrial sightings in Elmwood so that Elmwood is also not "teaching that the world is flat", so to speak. :)
You can actually make a legitimate case for UFO's, so you are really comparing apples to oranges:- )
But Ben, how do we know for sure that the people of Elmwood have been truthful about their sightings? Is it just a big conspiracy to draw in tourism? I'm afraid it might be just like Hayward. Elmwood needs to be stopped!
Edited by Matt DeVos 2/28/2014 10:13 AM
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | The new Wisconsin record program was suddenly dropped! Probably threats from the "Hayward Mafia"!
I care about the world record. Shouldn't it be legit? |
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Location: Richland Center, WI. | KenK - 2/28/2014 10:09 AM
The new Wisconsin record program was suddenly dropped! Probably threats from the "Hayward Mafia"!
I care about the world record. Shouldn't it be legit?
Probably? Now that statement sounds legit. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Ok, I would like to see a legit WR muskie, it would be a good measuring stick. But to keep hammering the old records like they matter...time to move on. To stand on a platform and insist that the fakes are real makes you look silly...but to keep attacking . Yeah, kind of the same. |
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Location: Richland Center, WI. | Do we not have three different world record muskies being recognized by three different organizations? If you don't like one, move on to the next. Don't like that one, go with the next one.
I don't think anyone is being forced into believing one "record" over another.
Pick whichever one you believe in. I am more interested in what I catch next!
Ken |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI |
Somebody needs to contact the Rhinelander Chamber of Commerce as well. How can anybody be satisfied until we witness a live capture of a hodag ?!?
BenR - 2/28/2014 10:05 AM
Matt DeVos - 2/28/2014 9:58 AM
Ah, heck. Hayward promoting dubious world records is fine by me. Anyone who's looked objectively at the evidence knows that the records are false...but towns can and should promote whatever claim to fame might happen to be....Elmwood, WI has its "UFO Days", after all. Maybe we should sponsor a study to disprove those extra-terrestrial sightings in Elmwood so that Elmwood is also not "teaching that the world is flat", so to speak. :)
You can actually make a legitimate case for UFO's, so you are really comparing apples to oranges:- ) |
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| We have frozen dead guy festival here in CO, town of nederland, however there is a real actual frozen dead guy. Are all WI festivals based on fiction? Gotta be something truthful in the state!
Edited by BenR 2/28/2014 10:49 AM
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| I"m with Slamr, here. Look, there are people in the world who believe in folk tales about Sasquatch's, the boogey-man, really tall men with blue ox's, Loch Ness Monsters, UFO's, etc. Similarly, there is a contingent of people who believe in the veracity of Louis Spray. So what? At this point, the illegitimacy of the old records has been pretty well exposed and I don't understand what more there is to say about it. There is a semblance of credibility given to the opponent when you have to go to such efforts to "refute" them. The old Shakespeare quote, "thou doth protest too much", comes to mind. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Frozen dead guy? What's that all about? Is the dude still frozen? |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Slamr - 2/28/2014 10:22 AM
To stand on a platform and insist that the fakes are real makes you look silly...but to keep attacking a clown. Yeah, kind of the same.
If the clown believes that promoting fakes puts people into his resort's cabins and bar stools then he's going to do it.
If the clown attacker is going to keep attacking because he not only knows the records are fake but believes it helps sell his books, drives visits to his website, and books more guide trips then he's going to do it.
Capitalism at its lowest I guess, but then again as the famous quote attributed to P.T. Barnum goes, "There's a sucker born every minute"... |
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| sworrall - 2/28/2014 10:46 AM
Frozen dead guy? What's that all about? Is the dude still frozen?
Yep, dry ice and there is a keeper to watch over him year round. It is a pretty fun festival with frozen dead guy races and other fun activities. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | BenR - 2/28/2014 10:40 AM
We have frozen dead guy festival here in CO, town of nederland, however there is a real actual frozen dead guy. Are all WI festivals based on fiction? Gotta be something truthful in the state!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Dead_Guy_Days
See, we can now ALL learn something because of this thread. |
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| BenR - 2/28/2014 10:40 AM
We have frozen dead guy festival here in CO, town of leadville, however there is a real actual frozen dead guy. Are all WI festivals based on fiction? Gotta be something truthful in the state!
Yep, all fictitious. Well...north of Hwy 8, mostly. Pretty obvious why everyone is so backwards in N. WI. After all, we've all been brought to believe in UFO's, hodags and the legend of Louis Spray. |
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| Matt, are you calling my veracity into question |
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| North of 8 - 2/28/2014 11:01 AM
Matt, are you calling my veracity into question :-)
LOL...not my true intention. |
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Location: Richland Center, WI. | BenR - 2/28/2014 10:40 AM
We have frozen dead guy festival here in CO, town of nederland, however there is a real actual frozen dead guy. Are all WI festivals based on fiction? Gotta be something truthful in the state!
CO. That is the state banning guns but legalizing marijuana isn't it?
Ken |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That ought to pretty well wrap this one up. |
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