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Posts: 153
| their is a guy close to home he has a 18 foot tuffy renegade belive its a 95 or 97 model the out side is in awsome shape but it needs new carpeting and a motor put on it I am dbating if I wana turn it into a tiller it wouldnt be that hard but I talked to tuffy and they said the max hp for the 18 foot renegade was a 70 and I know the max hp for counsel steer is 150 so im stuck between a rock and a hard place im worried that a 70 wont get it out of the whole fast enough the guy said when he had the 150 on it he said it did 45 to 50 so im worried about the performance I like tillers because of how wide open every thing is my question is dose any one run these boats and what are your thoughts and what kind of performance do you guys get |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If this is an 18' Renegade with the big flared bow and extreme deep V, the tiller rating is 75HP. I think it'd run pretty well with that motor and the correct prop, but would be in the 32 MPH range at best.
This is a great big water ride. It also has the full side tank interior lots of muskie guys seem to want.
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Posts: 153
| could i possiably run a little biger motor like an 80 or 85 to get a little more speed and to get out of the whole quicker |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Not legally, no. The hole shot will not be a problem at all. |
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Posts: 153
| ok what would you recomend for props I was thinking a stainless 4 blade would be good along with a planing fin to get the bow out of the water farther and as far as a trolling motor do you think a 55 or 55 pound thrust would be good the owner said he used a 48 pound thrust and even when it was windy it would hold the boat just fine what are your thoughts |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You will not need a 'planing fin'. A 4 blade stainless will get the job done. |
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Posts: 455
| I had a 17ft. 1999 that went about 32mph with a 60hp. Just leave the manufacturers plate on the boat that says 150. No enforcement guys will know you changed to a tiller. The only reason they drop the hp on the tiller is because you can loose control with a big motor. As long as you just go a few hp over and take time getting used to the power it shouldn`t be a problem. If you fly out of the boat you can`t sue Tuffy. |
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Posts: 682
Location: Sycamore, IL | A 55lb trolling motor will struggle in the wind...I have a Esox LTD with a 55 and it's a no go when the wind really kicks up...I would try to swing a 80lb motor if you can...post some pics of the "conversion" if you decide to make the boat a tiller...good luck, sound like a cool project. |
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Posts: 455
| To be honest as long is the motor is under 150hp I don't think you are breaking the law. There is no law I`m aware of that says the owner of a boat can not convert from tiller to console and visa versa. You go by the plate that came on the boat. What can law enforcement do? The motor is within the capacities on the plate period. There is no law I`m aware of that says you have to reduce horsepower as a private boat owner when converting to tiller. You don`t get the boat retested by the coastguard just because you changed motor style. So while they can`t sell you the boat with a 150 tiller there is nothing that's says you can`t just switch motor styles. Please note I`m not a lawyer but if you don`t exceed the plate hp rating someone would have a hard time proving that you should have known to reduce the hp when converting to a tiller. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | I had a 1986 Lund Predator (tiller) that was rated for a 50 hp and that was as big of tiller you could get at that time. The Console model (Renagade) was rated for a 90 hp. A few years after I got my boat OMC came out with a 60 hp tiller, I contacted Lund and inquired about getting a rating tag for 60 they said no problem and I got a new tag in a few days. They increased it to 75 hp. Then I upgraded to a 60 hp.
So I agree, put what ever motor you want on it as long as it is <150.
I also agree you would want a 80 lb TM.
Nice Rig with the Console, I am not sure why but it is unfortunate they don't make them like that anymore. (For muskie fishing I wouldn't own a boat without a side tank as they are called)
Have a good day 
Edited by btfish 2/9/2014 9:36 AM
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What isn't legal is for me to suggest you should repower at more than the boat is rated for. In the case of the Lund, no larger tiller motor existed at the time, so the rating was based upon availability, not USCG formula. Insurance and liability may also be an issue. |
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Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | muskyrat - 2/9/2014 8:14 AM
To be honest as long is the motor is under 150hp I don't think you are breaking the law. There is no law I`m aware of that says the owner of a boat can not convert from tiller to console and visa versa. You go by the plate that came on the boat. What can law enforcement do? The motor is within the capacities on the plate period. There is no law I`m aware of that says you have to reduce horsepower as a private boat owner when converting to tiller. You don`t get the boat retested by the coastguard just because you changed motor style. So while they can`t sell you the boat with a 150 tiller there is nothing that's says you can`t just switch motor styles. Please note I`m not a lawyer but if you don`t exceed the plate hp rating someone would have a hard time proving that you should have known to reduce the hp when converting to a tiller.
Alot of boat manufacturers are putting 2 seperate hp ratings on their coast gaurd plates. 1 for tiller hp and 1 for console hp. If this is the case for this particular plate, then yes, it is illegal to have over the plated hp. However, without doing a bunch of research, that boat does seem to be on the heavier side for a 75 tiller. i'd push the envelope and throw at least a 90 tiller on there. But, like steve mentioned, you probably wouldn't be able to insure it. |
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Posts: 455
| Keep in mind there is a reason the boats are rated lower for tillers. To go up to 90hp is most likely no big deal. Just because you could get away with a 150hp and play dumb does not mean you should. |
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Posts: 455
| Is the insurance company that smart? Would you even insure a 1996? I`m telling you my 1999 17' was a tank and did fine with a sixty but you could run up to 90 no problem. The boats ride great but they are heavy and why take a chance on the .01% chance anybody will every even know the motor is too big including your insurance co. No way your plate has two ratings. |
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Posts: 153
| im going to keep it at 75hp because I plan on using the boat for guideing steve told me with a 4 blade stainless it should go just fine im debating do I wana go with mercury or evenirude or suzukie |
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Posts: 3507
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
There is this thing called a hull ID number that every boat has that would identify the make and model of the boat, which could then be linked to a specific maximum weight and HP rating, given it is below 20 feet long if memory serves me correctly on that length.
When you insure a boat, this number will be requested. Now, if you talk with the insurance company about repowering with a motor rated higher than the hull's USCG rating, you "might" be able to get away with it, but to use the plate that is on it as reason to overpower, that, I feel is asking for trouble if you ever get into an accident. Playing dumb probably would not work here because the owner of the boat should know what they have and what they are purchasing, thus that hull ID number would be a sticking point yet again.
One must also consider if they do decide to repower higher than 90 hp the need for hydraulic assist is probably in order as well. That is an added cost also.
I think sticking to the 75 is a smart idea. If anything, look for the largest displacement motor you can find as that larger displacement means power. And...the 4 blade will do well on it given pitch and diameter allow the motor to reach its maximum rpms when lightly loaded.
Steve
Edited by VMS 2/9/2014 4:50 PM
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Posts: 153
| any recomondations on pitch or motors I dont want to go with a 4 stroke because of how heavy they are im looking at a 1997 freshly rebilt 75 hp evenirude if I was going to go with a newer outboard id probly go with a 75 hp e tech and put a 4 blade stainless prop on it plus id put all the batteries in the front (3) two for the trolling motor and the cranking battery since their is a big front compartment also the gas tank is in the front so between the batteris and the gas tank in the front that should help dramaticaly. |
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Posts: 3507
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I would be more apt to put the batteries in the back as that will allow the motor to trim the bow better, which means a more efficient running rig. With the gas tank up front, you will have quite a bit of weight to trim up. any extra weight you put up front will only make the bow plow more.
The prop you go with will be determined by the rpms you pull, which will mean trying different pitches until you find one that puts you in the desired rpm range.
My gut instinct on that boat and motor combo you would be somewhere around 11 to 13in pitch.
Then, if there is anything more you can move to the back of the boat would be a good thing. |
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Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | muskyrat - 2/9/2014 2:26 PM
Is the insurance company that smart? Would you even insure a 1996? I`m telling you my 1999 17' was a tank and did fine with a sixty but you could run up to 90 no problem. The boats ride great but they are heavy and why take a chance on the .01% chance anybody will every even know the motor is too big including your insurance co.
No way your plate has two ratings.
I've owned a few boats that listed 2 different hp ratings and see them on alot of newer rigs now. As mentioned earlier, a whale-tail may not be the worst idea either. (just be careful in reverse) When you boil it all down, if it floats and starts then it is a good day. |
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Posts: 153
| I think im going to put a whale tail and 4 blade stainless on it and that should help alot |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This boat will not need a whale tail. |
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Posts: 3507
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Agreed. If you get it propped right, the fin won't do anything but slow your rig down...
Steve |
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Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | Without trying to hijack this thread... I tried a google search to find out the approximate weight of this boat, i came up with a goose-egg. Purely to satisfy my curiousity, would anyone have a ballpark weight of this boat? It looks like a great ride, and if a 75 can plane this boat out, i might even be interested in one. thanks |
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Posts: 3507
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
Iboats had a spec on 1997 models at 1250 pounds with an empty gas tank for both console and tiller.
http://boatspecs.iboats.com/Tuffy_Boats_by_Fiberdome__Renegade__199...
Steve |
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Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line |
Well i'll be darned. That's quite a bit lighter than i thought she'd weigh in at. thanks |
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Posts: 383
| "I had a 1986 Lund Predator (tiller) that was rated for a 50 hp and that was as big of tiller you could get at that time. The Console model (Renagade) was rated for a 90 hp. A few years after I got my boat OMC came out with a 60 hp tiller, I contacted Lund and inquired about getting a rating tag for 60 they said no problem and I got a new tag in a few days. They increased it to 75 hp. Then I upgraded to a 60 hp."
I tried this last fall with my 1675 Pro V tiller...called Lund and asked about getting a bigger hp rating tag for my '97 . They just laughed. Looks like I'm stuck with a 60 hp rating.
Edited by hooked 2/15/2014 7:05 PM
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Posts: 455
| His boat is rated for 150hp if he puts a 90hp on the boat and crashes the investigator or insurance adjuster will see a plate that says 150hp. In fact to change the plate at all would be breaking the law. If they looked up the boat it would say 150hp. There is no tiller rating on that boat so he has no legal obligation to put a 75hp on that boat. I certainly understand someone who works for Tuffy would not be able to recommend that but the fact is if you wanted a lower rated plate you could not get one. That's why the new plates have two ratings because it was an oversight. They have two ratings now to protect the manufacturer from liability witch is a good indicator you are not liable if you changed the motor. Now that you have asked the question online and someone from Tuffy told you not to do it you are liable and should just buy a 75hp. |
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