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Posts: 286
Location: Eagan, MN | So, here in the middle of winter, I'm watching the same musky shows you guys are and keep wondering about a couple of things that I consistently see (or don't see) on just about every show.
Why does the net man stand right next to the guy fighting a fish with a 9'+ rod?? Wouldn't things be a lot easier if the net man and the angler stood on opposite decks given the length of the rods used today? Remaining on opposite decks would give the angler more room to move around unimpeded and is the perfect distance for which to lead the fish right to the net man standing a rod length away - and using better rod angles at that. Maybe this tendency to stand next to the angler is just a hang-over from the days of short rods? Or maybe this makes for better TV? I dunno. Standing shoulder to shoulder with an angler fighting a fish with a 9'+ rod just seems like such an awkward way to land fish.
Also, I find it interesting that more guys don't have a system for securely tying off their net at the side of the boat when a fish is in the bag. No need to have someone hold the net or sit on top of the handle when you can quickly and securly go hands-free, with the net in the same position. BTurg showed me this trick years ago and is standard procedure now. Some rope, duct taped around the end of the net handle to form a loop, along with a place to attach the loop, is all one needs in the simplest form. When a fish is in the bag, I tie off the handle rope on my compartment lid handles. Metal clips or fasteners can also be used though. Figured I was the only one NOT doing this at the time BTurg showed me this trick. Guess I was wrong. Things are sure a lot more efficient when the net is tied-off to a pre-determined spot in the boat, leaving the fish securely in the water in the bag with the net draped over the gunwale. Then all anglers can attend to other chores (grabbing cameras or video equipment, getting release tools organized, wetting bump boards, clearing the 'work space', etc.) in preparation for the photo session; all the while the fish is safe in the net, securely tied to the boat at the end of the handle. Works great and never had an issue in the years we've been doing this.
Brian
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | What about leaving the bag in the water waiting to net the fish? Am I the only one that wants my partner netting my fish to hold on to the extra bagging?
I like the handle tip Brian! I usually just hold the handle of my Lakewood up, slide the net handle through, and that works for me unless it is really choppy.  |
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | I use a downrigger clip taped to the net handle to hold the net bag from floating forward.After netting the fish the round Beckman Net handle snaps into the Downeaster Salty S-10 Rodholder to give you hands free while the fish is in the water within the net bag holding pen. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | a much easier and simpler way to keep the net secured is one of those rod straps like this..
http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Poly-Rod-Strap-Rod-Holder/pro... I placed mine on the back battery compartment lid parallel w the boat and simply put the handle under that and it's secure, the hoop is angled up, out over the water, pretty much zero chance of the fish jumping out, you can have the net on either side w this ....once the fish is unhooked we can leave the fish right in the water, get the bumpboard out, camera ready etc ... very handy.
can be seen in these pics...
one thing I have noticed this fishing show season is by and large the net jobs are horrible... maybe I'm just blessed with good netmen but dang, talk about bad net jobs! also, I'm not a big fan of the guy holding the net bag, I've seen it all too often when they go to let it go getting hooked on rod holders, etc... I never hold the bag and rarely fubar a net job!
Edited by BNelson 2/7/2014 5:56 PM
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Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | CiscoKid - 2/7/2014 4:55 PM
What about leaving the bag in the water waiting to net the fish? Am I the only one that wants my partner netting my fish to hold on to the extra bagging?
X 2 man, pet peeve, letting the bag hang in the water. Just asking for trouble. Along with trying to net the tail end of a fighting fish. Can't believe how often it seems to take place on shows. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | When filming you want the net man and the angler in the shot if possible AND you don't want either standing next to the camera man knocking him in the water with a $10,000.- 30,000 camera.
A rope on the net would drive me nuts. Net the fish and hook the bag to a cleat, takes two seconds and nothing extra to cause problems.
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Posts: 3511
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I have used a tether for about 20 years or so now on my nets, and now just drill a hole through the net handle and thread a heavy duty neck lanyard with a good clip through it. Then, I attached a simple eye-bolt on the front side of the steering console (or somewhere on the front, not in a position to be tripped on or bent) to attach the lanyard to.
For me, my net sits level with the gunnel and I can work as needed with the fish.
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Posts: 540
Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | Well I'm glad some one has brought this up but these shows are suppose to be showing every one HOW TO be in the right place or how to fish a simple weed bed or a rock PT.
And they get a fish big or small and the net man is standing there with the net in the water when the fish is green as hell or the net man is reaching with out stretched arms
Trying to get the fish in the bag these Pros need a lesson in how to do it properly every time and this gets me also when they almost blow it they stand there and laugh about it
Iv been guiding for 40years and there IS no laughing when you blow some ones fish of a life time just saying |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Don and I talked about this last year and we are both appalled at how poorly some do it, and you'd think they'd know better. One prominent show personality (and often his partners) almost always puts the bag in the water too soon, and between reaching for the fish too soon or too far, or just plain being in the way before the fish is ready to be netted, screws up way too many net jobs. They often end up with the hooks in the outside of the bag or some other mistake, and wind up having to do gymnastics to flip it in. Maybe they do it to make for more exciting tv |
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Posts: 20278
Location: oswego, il | X3 on what Travis said. I hold onto the bag and let go as I scoop the fish. A loose bag in the water is a great way to hook the lure with the fish outside the net. We have seen it on TV already this year. |
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Posts: 1292
Location: Walker, MN | Yes, the bag in the water drives me crazy too. I also loop the bag onto one of the cleats to hold the net but on some of these shows they have what seems like a five minute conversation setting up "the catch" while the fish is still hooked and sitting in the net. I always try to unhook, measure, picture and release and often the clock ticks a little too long and we skip the measure or pic. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Haha! Net your fish how you want to! I like the bag in the water waiting for the fish. The only net job that was ever screwed up for me was when the guy was holding the bag. I also just hook the bag on a cleat. No issues. |
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Posts: 69
| I have been part of a few hundred netted fish with 0 netting mistakes (knock on wood) the key is to make sure you have the fish head first and go quick when you decide to go. |
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Posts: 463
Location: Sw Pennsylvania | Personally I prefer to net my own fish. Its worked well for me. |
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| Hold the bag.0723 |
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Posts: 427
Location: Planet Meltdown | When I'm netting someone else's fish, I hold the bag and when the fish is ready im quick about it. Never had an issue netting someone's fish. I fubar'd one of my own net jobs last season and lost a nice fish. Funny though now that I think about it, it was with a 9' rod. It's a little tricky with longer rods fishing by yourself.
Edited by brianT 2/8/2014 7:59 AM
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Posts: 427
Location: Planet Meltdown | It would be nice if there was a product out there like a plastic cradle that sits flat on the gunwale that the net handle can sit in with some type of securing bungee cord or something. Anyone know if there is something out there like this? |
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Posts: 192
| I have a multi species style boat that sits fairly high off of the water. Because of this I like to work on unhooking the fish from the back portion of the boat so I am lower and closer to the water. Makes for an easier reach down into the bag when I'm leaning over the side of the boat. I just stab the end of the net handle through the steering wheel spokes and it holds the net perfectly steady. If I'm on the other side of the boat, I snap the strap that holds the passenger seat back down and then stab the net handle through that. Also work just fine.
I have two full knee replacements. Anyone that has knee replacements knows that crawling around on hands and knees on the front deck of the boat really isn't an option.
Edited by LarryO 2/8/2014 9:48 AM
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Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | I'll go along with the knee replacement thing not good |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Don- I'll also say tail first netting is not good, even if you capure the fish! Right, Howie M.? First & last time! I strained some muscles doing it, that I didn't even know I had! I should have just jumped into the water and grabbed the fish!!!!!! But it was #*^@ed cold water!
Have fun!
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Location: 31 | brianT - 2/8/2014 8:04 AM It would be nice if there was a product out there like a plastic cradle that sits flat on the gunwale that the net handle can sit in with some type of securing bungee cord or something. Anyone know if there is something out there like this? Yes, I think I found the best solution just laying around my garage in the form of one of those cheap plastic buckle straps left over from an old gym bag. I've also found that the netting process is way easier with two or three people in the boat, and it's not so much a necessity to have the net secured then. However, it's just one less thing to worry about when you secure the net handle when fishing alone. I use to put it in the Down East rod holder like Larry Jones (and that worked well), but prefer having the hoop closer to boat to work on fish. My netting system looks to be similar to Brad Nelson's except I drape the net/hoop over a Down Easter and just clip together that plastic buckle strap, I have the strap secured under the livewell hatch with 1 screw so it stays level from either side. Warning: with the net so close though, you will get some scratches on the side of your boat from thrashing fish hooks… the only scratches I kind of like J.
(solo double in the net.jpg)
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Posts: 427
Location: Planet Meltdown | That's a good idea Jerry. Thanks for the photo and tip. I also tried to put my net in a down east but that didn't work too well in my 1650 Fishhawk. The bag wasn't sitting deep enough in the water.
Edited by brianT 2/10/2014 7:42 AM
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | How about NOT netting every fish? I realize that these guys on these shows want to get a hero shot for the camera, but I know guys who net every single fish they catch. Seriously? I don't put anything in the net that I feel is 45" or under unless fishing a tournament. Everything else gets Boga gripped, quick pic and back into the water OR we simply use 18" needle nose and remove the hooks quickly while the fish is in the water and never bring them into the boat.. Those fish can get beat up pretty bad in a net...rubber coated or not. My .02
Edited by ShutUpNFish 2/10/2014 10:46 AM
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Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | My net hangs in the water opposite my kicker in the back of my Ranger 620VS. Working on the fish in the water from the front is a little high for me. The back of the boat is calm and lower. The net handle is held by my rod holder strap along side of my passenger seat. This gives me all the room I need to work on the fish while its in the bag resting. The hooks come out asap first thing. Client fish or fish I want pics of are the only fish I use a net on now. Boat side water released fish are my preferred method otherwise.
With my net handle along side of my boat and the hoop straight out the back I have a secure net and all the room I need to do my thing. If a bump board is needed I just lay it next to the net handle or on the back deck.
I also hold the bag until I quickly drop n scoop with one motion. Dont like the bag in the water with green fish. They are too unpredictable when they are close to the boat. |
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Posts: 785
| For guys who aren't fans of your net man holding the mesh; what issues have you run into with this? I successfully net all my boat partners fish this way. Just curious if it's more the person running the net that's the problem or a legitimate issue I haven't come across yet.
IMO holding the bag allows a person to get in position and if needed get out of the way much more quickly. It also keeps the bag from tangling in cleats or rods with a hanging basket. You just have to drop it when you go to scoop. I see this on TV now and then where they net the fish THEN try to drop the bag but by then it's too late and the fish it tangled high in the mesh. I also see people with the entire basket drifting around in the water with a green fish and way too often the fish tangles on the mesh outside the rim. I also like to anchor my net handle, I just clip my rod holder strap to the plastic loop on my Frabill net handle.
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Location: Chisholm, MN | It's that I don't trust the person holding the net. The one time the guy did this, he was in such a panic that he never dropped the bag. The bait got hooked in the net (which was basically a wall of mesh that was never dropped) and the fish popped off. I was having a particularly bad year, so that one lost fish bummed me out and he felt really bad too. Since then, I instruct anyone new to get the net in the water to be ready to net the fish. Never had a problem since. Of course there can be drawbacks to doing it that way too, so i think it all comes down to the net man's preference. I still get nervous when i see someone doing this while im fighting a fish. |
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Posts: 286
Location: Eagan, MN | Skunk, I cringe when I see my boat partner holding the bag, waiting to stab the net downward into the water in front of the fish when the fish nears the boat. The bag, being 3' longer than the hoop of the net, tends to fold over on itself from the downward motion. The net needs to be 'inflated' by a forward and, IMO, somewhat of an upward motion by the net man to maximize the potential of netting the fish without incident. If the net is folded over and not inflated, that is when fish get snagged on the bag and start to wallow around and fight the net man - often getting away. In this scenario, the usual move is to flip the net and bag the fish with a little reverse move. Even if successful, that move is harrowing when a big fish is on the line. I can speak from experience there. Knowing when to bag a fish is important, too. Having an experienced angler as a net man is nice since they are better able to read the fish. More inexperienced anglers are when net disasters tend to happen. They stab at the fish at the wrong times and create all sorts of unnecessary boatside angst with big, wallowing fish. Guess it's all part of the excitment??
Brian |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Communication is the key to a successful relationship. Talk to your net man prior to and DURING the big event. Regardless of what is the right or best way... you both need to be on the same page for how it will be done. I hold the bag until ready to submerse the net (this helps avoid snagging a cleat or rod holder).... but plan to inflate the bag with some forward movement prior to the fish crossing the rim of the hoop. I wait for the angler to confirm that its time to submerse the net and close the deal. If I can't deploy for some reason, I'll be real clear about it and ready to re-position in the boat where necessary for the next most convenient capture point (usually the opposite end of the boat from last planned attempt so angler can lead the fish there). As for fastening the net handle down while unhooking the fish. I use a bungee cord through the seat post opening in the rear deck of my Ranger. However, the Rod Holder Straps look like real nice alternative. For me, TV is entertainment only. I understand why the netman shares the same deck with the angler for television.... but that is NOT how it will get done in my boat (or whomever's boat I'm in at the time). If TV was for educational purposes... I'd like to see more footage of guys actually unhooking fish. What tools are they using. How are they using them. Decision making process for when to cut hooks vs. pop them out. How they work with their partner. Etc. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I agree, trust is key, and simply being fast w the net, reading the fish much like you do in the figure 8 to know where/when to net them if they are green, for me I like to net fish asap, no sense in playing them out if you can help it...
try the rod strap JLong, many of my buds have incorporated them on their boats after seeing/using mine...
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Brad, My bungee system is the same as your rod straps. Same concept, different strapping mechanism. Only difference is that my bungee is stored elsewhere until needed. I like it for now... as it keeps the deck clear of any potential tripping hazards. If I ever upgrade my rig.... I'm sure the Rod Strap trick will be at the top of my list. I may have to talk BrianF into adding it to his boat... as I still have trouble wrapping his nylon rope around the storage compartment cleat... especially with a big rush of adrenaline making your hands shake.... heh heh heh. |
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| jlong - 2/10/2014 3:46 PM
I hold the bag until ready to submerse the net (this helps avoid snagging a cleat or rod holder).... but plan to inflate the bag with some forward movement prior to the fish crossing the rim of the hoop.>
^^^Yep. Thanks guys, I was curious to hear the problems you've run into. When dealing with inexperienced net men I agree the more simple approach of not holding the net will work best. Sounds like that is the main problem. The keys to holding it is once the net begins entering the water I've usually already dropped the mesh. I get the net fairly deep and come up around the fish with a fully deployed bag below. This way the fish slides deep into the net. I also like coming up with the hoop somewhat horizontal. I'm not a fan of guys netting at sharp angles allowing the possibility of the fish to turn sharply and shoot back out of the net or jam into the side of the bag. I agree getting the net ready and being in position quickly is very important. For some people though the above mentioned is unlearnable 
Edited by musky-skunk 2/10/2014 4:33 PM
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Location: SE Wisconsin | I just saw this on Joe Bucher Outdoors where Joe was telling his St. Croix rep to stand on the front deck where Joe was waiting to net the fish. Joe's point was made based on catching it all on film, while his fishing partner made several comments about how much easier it would have been to net the fish had Joe scooped it when the guy fighting the fish was on the rear deck since his rod was a stiff 9-footer. This is where I think Keyes Outdoors has it right with their tower tripod and wide lens camera to capture the action of both the netman AND the guy fighting the fish in one view without crowding and flexing a 9+ foot musky rod in weird ways. |
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Location: 31 | This is an interesting discussion and there are obviously several methods that work well for different people. I've netted fish holding the bag and not, same with people who have netted fish for me. I've also completely blown a couple of net jobs, especially some of my early solo attempts. Years ago I was filming with Marc Thorpe and I thought we were all set and at the last second he moved the net unexpectedly just as I began powering the fish in. The fish ended up getting hooked on the opposite end of the bag from where it should be and then just kind of sat there. Without panicking Marc immediately reverse scooped the bag with the fish still attached in one desperate motion… and we both had a good chuckle after really dorking one for the camera. The strange part is that we had done this same routine many-many times, I think that was even the third 50” just that morning. Anyway, it just goes to show things can go south in a hurry even with two experienced anglers… and none of us are beyond reproach. Regarding the recommendation not to net every fish, I wholeheartedly agree and would have never netted a low 40” like that one in the picture on page 1, except it was my first solo doubleheader and I wanted to get it all on video. Conversely, I know some very experienced anglers who prefer to net almost every fish because they feel they can simply unhook the fish faster and safer. I say whatever works and to each their own, (I would never use a bogagrip for instance), and would be much more reluctant releasing even a 5 pound pike without my welding glove.
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| I agree, it is important to secure the net after the fact. Like others mentioned, I certainly hold the excess bag out of the water while waiting for the correct moment (unless I am fishing alone, then I am only netting with one hand). The bag will open up if the sweep is made correctly at the right time. Also, I think it is just as much the fighter's job to guide the fish into the net as it its the netter's job to scoop the fish. Because of this, I like the fighter and the netter to be standing pretty close. Not everybody uses the 9' rods exclusively or at all. I still mostly use 6' and 6' 3" rods. Those I fish with use mostly 7-8' stuff. Another thing that I'd like to mention is that the net should be lying where it is easy to access, unobstructed, and not tangled in anything. This is especially important when fishing alone. The true mark of a good netter is the ability to do it solo. If anybody wants to see footage of this, I will let you know when and where you can see it.
I have been doing a lot of filming and it helps me work through the stupid crap that I pull in the heat of the moment and don't even realize that I am doing. It is easy to watch the footage of others and point out their mistakes, I do it on occasion as well. People who put themselves out there on TV are of course making money and willingly exposing themselves to criticism, so they have to take it in stride. However, we are all human. |
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Posts: 1168
| I concur with almost everything jlong is saying here. I was fishing with him when I saw the bungee net strap in set-up and applied the concept to my rig. A piece of baler twine tied in a loop around a leg on my removable deck. It keeps the net handle lower and out of the way. I've done the boat cleat thing and it wasn't comfortable. I prefer to have that net handle locked down and secure instead of giving it the chance to move around.
Bottom line with a net securing system is to use what makes YOU more comfortable. For some it's a cleat, others a rod strap, you've got the bungee around a chair post method, I've got my loop of baler twine... Plenty of ideas here to accomplish the same goal. The biggest benefit I see other than freeing up your other hand is that if I get a fish in the net I can secure it in place and take a step back to gather my thoughts/adrenaline before removing hooks. You're not fumbling around with a net while getting your hook removal tools where you need them to be.
The thing about communication is critical. I try to have any fish in my boat netted on the port side if possible because there is more room over there (single console). To be honest, it's not really "netting" a fish as much as the angler with it hooked is guiding the fishing into an awaiting net. The guy with the fish hooked is the navigator here and the netman is just coming along for the ride but needs to be clear as to when he's ready with the net. A netman who just wildly scoops away is the type who tends to knock fish off at boat side because either the angler or fish are not ready to be guided into the net.
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Posts: 47
| One thing that works nice, is putting the end of the net handle through the handle on top of an unopened 30 pack of Old Style. Holds the net securely, and even tears slightly during the unhooking process, allowing for an easy brew grab once released. |
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| Strawberry - love your thinking! |
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Posts: 196
| I haven't fact checked it but heard that Florida implemented a law that any tarpon over 40" is not allowed out of the water. Anyone else hear the same? |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | I think more important is knowing when a muskie is too stressed to take out of the water! Net or No Net! |
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Posts: 310
| I've got the netting part down, but what about after the fish is in the net?
I'll admit, my landing techniques probably haven't been the best, but they've all swam off. I do what I can in the net, but 1 week a year of practice in a rental boat doesn't offer much. It's a little risky sticking your hand in the water with 9 hooks, teeth and an upset fish, but only fair to assume some risk since I just forced her in by the lips. It's great when you can get the pliers on the hook and it just pops out, but what about the other 90% of the time when it's not that easy? Tips/tricks??
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | I think if done properly, netting fish is best for both angler and the fish. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. A pet peeve of mine is when a fish is netted and the hooks are tangled high in the bag near the hoop. This prevents the fish's head from being IN the water while the the net is hung from the rail. If you inflate the bag and get the head of the fish deep into the bag... now you can take full advantage of these awesome nets we have available today. So, for some a successful net job is whether the fish was landed or not. For others, it may be how quickly the fish was released and with minimal stress. This is why I retired my Beckman Fin Saver and switched to a Frabill. I was spending too much time untangling hooks from the finer mesh of the Beckman... at the fish's expense. Food for thought,..... |
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Location: Eagan, MN | JLong said: "A pet peeve of mine is when a fish is netted and the hooks are tangled high in the bag near the hoop. This prevents the fish's head from being IN the water while the the net is hung from the rail. If you inflate the bag and get the head of the fish deep into the bag... now you can take full advantage of these awesome nets we have available today"
Uh oh... Guilty as charged, my friend. That is probably a function of coming up on them from having a net deep in the water. Or, possibly because you catch fish that are so dang big, the fish doesn't fit in the net so well - in which case it's not my fault. I prefer to think the latter...
B.
Edited by BrianF. 2/12/2014 2:38 PM
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| Booch. It can be intimidating. Have long nosed pliers, bolt cutters (extra hooks), jaw spreaders and you may want to have a glove, although I admittedly never wear mine. If the bait is swallowed not allowing you to reach the hooks with pliers/cutters I'd attempt to grab the fish under the gill so you can prop it's mouth open, good time to wear a glove. If this fails to open the fishes mouth I'd break out the jaw spreaders. If gill grab is too intimidating for you I would seriously recommend getting a boga grip. They aren't very popular among most musky anglers but I've seen Jason Hammernick use them on tv enough to see the merit. Use it to grab the fish and hold it's mouth open to reach the hooks (without getting your hands in the mix). I would prefer to see you never pick the fish up out of the net with it though, grab it under the gill for pictures. The verdict is still out whether completely lifting their body weight from the jaw injures them or not... I just wouldn't. Also most deeply hooked fish will require some out of water time, but I would do all I can to keep that time to a minimum.
Edited by musky-skunk 2/12/2014 4:13 PM
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I just watched a video of some guys trolling a headlock and put a fish in the net. The fish was hooked with the back hook, but they decided that they would cut both the front hooks off before trying to unhook the fish. Now this is kind of expensive and maybe not necessary, but it definitely reduces you chances of getting hooked and the fish getting an unnecessary hook. It also helps the fish stay lower in the net if the bait cannot get tangled in the net. Something to think about trying if you think there is some risk involved while unhooking a fish. |
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| Kirby, that's a good idea. And really - what does it cost to replace a few split rings? A lot less than a trip to the hospital! |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I know I will start doing it more, especially since I fish alone a lot and after dark. |
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Location: Pulaski, WI | I once had the netman too far away. |
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Location: ON | Booch - 2/12/2014 2:24 PM
I've got the netting part down, but what about after the fish is in the net?
I'll admit, my landing techniques probably haven't been the best, but they've all swam off. I do what I can in the net, but 1 week a year of practice in a rental boat doesn't offer much. It's a little risky sticking your hand in the water with 9 hooks, teeth and an upset fish, but only fair to assume some risk since I just forced her in by the lips. It's great when you can get the pliers on the hook and it just pops out, but what about the other 90% of the time when it's not that easy? Tips/tricks??
It's even better when you net the fish, they headshake once and the bait pops out.
I'm still getting the hang of landing fish solo. Part of it is knowing when to try and net it, not as easy or fast as as when you have a partner. |
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| One of the worst things you can do is try to take a fish too early solo, even when I know they are hooked poorly you have to play them longer and wait until the fish is ready (unfortunately you will lose a few more lightly hooked fish with no partner in the boat)...like most things you get better with practice. Having your net ready and not tangled in baits or on anything in your boat is critical, muskie usually become quite docile when they are "done".
Edited by IAJustin 2/12/2014 10:06 PM
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| There is a fairly long list of Florida gamefish that are not allowed out of the water. |
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| Shut up. It`s because everybody is using magnum baits with 7/0 or bigger hooks these days. You have to net the fish so you can use the Jaws of life on the hooks. I prefer Gamakatsu magic eye hooks on smaller baits. Super sharp super strong and the barb is barley perceptible. Never do I need to cut a hook never. Never do I need to net the fish unless I want too. The difference is you can`t safely pop out a pounder or a double 13 with out netting the fish. Unless you want to use the jaws of life on yourself. Most people who have started muskie fishing the last ten years have no idea there is any other way. Catch fish on mega bait, net fish, cut hooks. That is how it works for most people on every fish. |
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Posts: 310
| Thanks Musky Skunk. My next step is usually the gill-grab with a landing glove, to get some clearance. I considered the bogo for how you mentioned, too. Would never lift it using one, though. I've yet to have any real difficult ones, but its bound to happen at some point.
Sounds like there's really no belly-rubbing trick or anything like that to make it easier.. ha ha.
Edited by Booch 2/13/2014 10:41 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I too like Strawberrys way of thinking!
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Location: Money, PA | jlong - 2/12/2014 2:07 PM I think if done properly, netting fish is best for both angler and the fish. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. A pet peeve of mine is when a fish is netted and the hooks are tangled high in the bag near the hoop. This prevents the fish's head from being IN the water while the the net is hung from the rail. If you inflate the bag and get the head of the fish deep into the bag... now you can take full advantage of these awesome nets we have available today. So, for some a successful net job is whether the fish was landed or not. For others, it may be how quickly the fish was released and with minimal stress. This is why I retired my Beckman Fin Saver and switched to a Frabill. I was spending too much time untangling hooks from the finer mesh of the Beckman... at the fish's expense. Food for thought,.....
I disagree totally with your first sentence....especially if you have an extension made on the Boga like the one I fabricated below. Also a pair of 18" needle nose pliers. Yes, netting is safer all around for the angler, but NOT the fish. A safer method all around, for me, is the use of a Boga grip and long pliers on 90% of our fish. 
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Location: Chisholm, MN | And I totally disagree with using a boga grip to lift a fish. |
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Location: Money, PA | Kirby Budrow - 2/13/2014 11:08 AM
And I totally disagree with using a boga grip to lift a fish.
OK |
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| Where legal, I still use a gaff for most fish while fishing alone. Is more fish friendly than the net for me. BR |
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| Pretty brave for saying that Ben. I always keep one on board incase the fish gets hooked in the gills or eyeball. That way the eye or gill does not get mangled when the fish thrashes in the net. If you put a hand under the fish lifting with a gaff or boga is really no different than lifting the fish with your hand on the jaw. |
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Location: Money, PA | Just an FYI:
The slime coat (mucoprotein coating) on fish is the fish's main defenses against infection and disease. It acts as a shield against disease causing organisms in the fish's external environment.
It also acts as a barrier to prevent loss of internal electrolytes and body fluids.
When even a small portion of the slime coating is removed, the fish will bleed electrolytes from its body into the surrounding water.
The slime coating is the fish's first line of defense against infection. Essential electrolytes necessary for osmoregulation are lost through breaks that may occur in the skin and slime coat, causing dangerous stress. Open wounds and abrasions caused by handling and netting are readily attacked by disease organisms, resulting in further stress and disease.
When a fish is hooked or netted, handled and placed in a stressful situation, such as low oxygen, high carbon dioxide or temperature fluctuations, the slime coating is disturbed, making the fish vulnerable to disease, such as bacterial, fungal and parasitic diseases.
Particularly when fish are shipped in high concentrations in low volumes of water, they are subject to trauma such as being scraped, bitten and otherwise wounded.
Ammonia, a waste product of fish's digestion and respiration, is released into the water containing fish.
Ammonia is also released at high levels by dead fish and decaying food.
At high ammonia levels, the fish are subject to ammonia burns which disturb the slime coating and adversely affect the fish.
Beneath the fish's mucoprotein coating (slime coat) are its scales which can extend to the outer skin surface from the underlying dermal connective tissue. Beneath the scales in a fish's skin is the epidermis, comprising several layers of cells. The fish epidermis is distinguished from mammalian epidermis in that mammals require hardened layers of skin to prevent dehydration, whereas in the aquatic environment, the fish has no need for such protection. Thus, unlike the case in mammals, mitosis is usually seen in the lower layer of the epidermal layer of a fish. Beneath the epidermis of a fish is the dermis comprising fibrous connective tissue interspersed with black pigment cells. The vascular dermal tissue contains a network of capillaries providing nutrient to the skin.
Stress is the number one cause of a deteriorated slime coat.
Below is a short list of some of the sources of stress on a fish.
•Poor water quality: ?Poor water quality can really eat away at the slime coat of a fish. This can come from improper pH, salinity, etc..... The main way to avoid this is to do regular (perhaps monthly) water changes.
•Water temperature: ?Water temperature is one of the most overlooked problems. While different species of fish require slightly different water temperatures, it is important to make sure that the fluctuations in water temperature are moderate, both throughout the day and year.
•Water changes: ?very time you change the water in you tank, you are adding stress to the fish. This comes from both the water removal process, and the introduction of new water that may contain chlorine and be at a different temperature than the aquarium water. Be particularly cautious when doing larger water changes, and make sure to use de-chlorinator to treat the water.
•Transportation: ?Fish do not enjoy traveling. Transporting fish can have a drastic effect on their slime coat, and often can be a nucleating cause of infection. When introducing new fish into your tank, take special care to acclimate the water temperature of the new fish with the aquarium.
•Netting and Handling of fish: ?In gathering bait this is the biggest problem you will be faced with.
Some don't are
•Don't over crowd your net or holding tank without proper circulation-filtration-airation. .
•Don't handle fish / bait anymore than you absolutely have to.
•If harvesting, Use the proper size and quality of net to prevent the bait / fish from being gilled.
How to help your fish get their slime coat back.
•Aqueous aloe vera gel 5% to about 30%
•Sodium carboxymethyl cellulose (cmc) up to about 7.5 g/l (g/L is an abbreviation for grams per litre : - .0265 oz per .28.16 oz) - mucoprotein slime-replacing compound.
•Polyvinylpyrrolidone (pvp having the molecular weight of about 40,000 - K-30 available from GAF Corporation) 1.3 to about 25 g/l (0.046 oz / 28.16 oz) - mucoprotein slime-replacing compound .
•Sodium thiosulfate or asorbic acid 12.5 (.44 oz to 2.12 oz / 28.16 oz) to about 60 g/l - dechlorinator
•Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA) 2 g/l (.07oz / 28.16 oz) - chelating agent.
•Tris(hydroxymethyl)aminomethane 0.3 to about 1 g/l ( .001 to .035 oz / 28.16 oz) - maintain the pH
•Diazolidinyl urea 1.3 to about 4 g/l (.05oz to 1.4 oz / 28.16 oz) - preservative
•Aloe vera gel ("VERAGEL 1501") 4 liters (1.057) gallons.
•sodium thiosulfate 1400 g (49.38 oz)
•carboxymethyl cellulose 100 g. (3.52oz)
•polyvinylpyrrolidone 400 g. (14.11)
•ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid 40 g. (1.4 oz)
•tris(hydroxymethyl)aminomethane 17 g. ( 0.6 oz)
•diazolidinyl urea 80 g. (2.8 oz)
•deionized water enough to dilute to a total volume of 40 liters (10.6) gallons
Edited by ShutUpNFish 2/13/2014 11:45 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Properly used, a gaff is a great way to handle a large fish. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | sworrall - 2/13/2014 11:43 AM
Properly used, a gaff is a great way to handle a large fish.
I would venture a guess that most here don't know the proper way to use a gaff (I don't know how I'd use one in a safe manner for the fish).
Care to elaborate? |
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Location: Money, PA | Sure...a sharp gaff can be stuck into the light skin behind the lower jawbone. This skin if very light tissue and won't even bleed. We used to gaff from the inside out....and of course support the weight of the fish on the lift. IMO still less harm than netting a fish. |
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Posts: 455
| You need a custom gaff with a deep hook. If I was more competent with my computer I would post a picture. You simply gaff through the thin membrane in the lower jaw where you would hold the fish with your hand. Because a gaff does not spin like a boga you can control the fishes head and safely unhook it in the water. Once unhooked. Slip your hand under the jaw and remove the gaff with your other hand. Lift for pictures. You could just lift the head with the gaff and support the belly with your other hand. The only problem is when people see the pictures the will gasp in horror. (You used a gaff!) As Steve said it does seam to work better for big fish. When I first hired Marc Thorpe he wouldn`t let me use a net. The nets sucked in those days but mine was rubber coated (New at the time.) |
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Location: Smith Creek | If treated nets killed muskies there would be no muskies.
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| MstormC - 2/11/2014 8:29 PM
I haven't fact checked it but heard that Florida implemented a law that any tarpon over 40" is not allowed out of the water. Anyone else hear the same?
True...the state of Florida does not allow a Tarpon over 40" to be taken out of water. It's the law now..I landed a few giants not long ago and the guide was well aware of laws. That's why you'll see more side shots of angler leaning over gunnel with fish on its side. Even in the flats guys will hop in water with fish for a pic. They don't use gaffs anymore for Tarpon either. Same as the new Muskie laws in Michigan if you want to harvest one you'll need a tag. Nearly all Tarpon anglers think a lot like us Muskie anglers. Preserve, educate and restoration... |
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| Well that was way back in the day and he had not ever seen a treated net. For all he knew it was just like all the other nets that sucked. Who I am to tell the guide how to land a fish? He has long since embraced nets. |
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Location: Smith Creek | HA! You don't need to justify Thorpe's actions, there's a great reason he did what he did and does what he does.
Gaffs have a time and place. The time is 20 years ago and the place is Thorpe's boat.
Miss with a net, the fish gets away.
Miss with a gaff and it's mortally wounded. |
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Posts: 455
| I don`t miss. Never killed one in over 20 years of catching them. Not many can say that. |
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| The gaff works fine, even in today's modern age. It would be pretty hard to miss. BR |
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| Anyone have video of gaff's being used for muskie? I'm curious, is there a difference in C&R gaff's?.....I have a fair amount of experience with gaff's..putting them right behind the head of Mahi Mahi, Wahoo, and Tuna... man I'm getting hungry just tying that!!!
Edited by IAJustin 2/13/2014 5:51 PM
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Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | I'm just sayin gaffs and boga grips are all BAD news |
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| DonPursch - 2/13/2014 6:23 PM
I'm just sayin gaffs and boga grips are all BAD news
Can't speak to a boga, but you are wrong about gaffs. BR |
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Location: Money, PA | Flambeauski - 2/13/2014 3:33 PM
If treated nets killed muskies there would be no muskies.
Who said they killed muskies?? |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I used a RELEASE GAFF for 15 or more years and have kept one in my boat for fish hooked near the eyes. I have tried most makes of nets and an seriously thinking of going back to the gaff when fishing alone or out of a low sided boat. I don't recall out of hundreds of fish gaffed ever seeing one bleeding from the tail. You never have a fish or hooks tangled in the mesh there is less slime removal no split fins. The downside to a gaff is the fish has to be played down to the point where the gaff can be properly and safely inserted. The gaff is inserted from the inside of the mouth taking care to miss the tounge. THE GAFF IS USED TO CONTROLL THE FISH AT BOATSIDE FOR HOOK REMOVAL NOT FOR LIFTING FISH. After hooks are removed the fish can be lifted for a photo if needed or guided into a cradle. Smaller fish can usually be shaken off at boatside with a Grabit or long pliers. Small fish can also be grabbed by the wrist of the tail and rolled upside down and they will just lay there for hook removal newbies are amazed when I show them this. Once you have played the game for any length of time how many pictures of 40 inch fish do you really need.
I fish the Larry frequently from a friends 27 foot cruiser here the high sides make proper gaffing impossible and a 50 inch or better fish in a Big Kahuna is a serious lift for 70 year old man.
Edited by horsehunter 2/14/2014 8:54 AM
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Location: Smith Creek | ShutUpNFish - 2/13/2014 10:55 AM
Yes, netting is safer all around for the angler, but NOT the fish. A safer method all around, for me, is the use of a Boga grip and long pliers on 90% of our fish.>
Bogas and gaffs in the right hands may be safer for the angler and fish in certain situations. But the thought of every muskie fisherman, no matter the skill level, trading in their massive treated nets for a boga or gaff makes me shudder.
How do you get them to hold still so you can bury the hook? |
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| Flambeauski - 2/14/2014 8:53 AM
ShutUpNFish - 2/13/2014 10:55 AM
Yes, netting is safer all around for the angler, but NOT the fish. A safer method all around, for me, is the use of a Boga grip and long pliers on 90% of our fish.>
Bogas and gaffs in the right hands may be safer for the angler and fish in certain situations. But the thought of every muskie fisherman, no matter the skill level, trading in their massive treated nets for a boga or gaff makes me shudder.
How do you get them to hold still so you can bury the hook?
I seem to have less issues putting the gaff into the fish's mouth than I do netting them:-) Slide gaff through bottom jaw pinning fish against the boat. Remove hooks, remove gaff, and fish swims off. Never lifted or touched. BR |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | never understood a boga for freshwater fishing, i suppose it makes sense they are used if you're a troller. |
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| jonnysled - 2/14/2014 9:06 AM
never understood a boga for freshwater fishing, i suppose it makes sense they are used if you're a troller.
Might make it easier to handle larger fish, probably not much of a problem in your neck of the woods;) |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Gotta ask, what is so bad about the Boga? Using a Boga, Gaff, or pulling a fish out of the net by hand are all the same. If the fish is unsupported it doesn’t matter what tool you use. I am tired of hearing one tool is better than another including hand landing. If you grab the fish by the gills/jaw and lift them vertical without supporting them right from when they leave the water the method used doesn’t matter. Anglers will argue just to argue. These fish are tougher than we make them out to be. Should caution still needs to be used but gosh dang before you know it we’ll be putting antiseptic in the hook holes like the English do with carp because we have become so anal. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | you pull a fish out with one hand? |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I wish people that vertically lift fish by a gill plate would let me lift them by the ear. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BenR - 2/14/2014 9:17 AM
jonnysled - 2/14/2014 9:06 AM
never understood a boga for freshwater fishing, i suppose it makes sense they are used if you're a troller.
Might make it easier to handle larger fish, probably not much of a problem in your neck of the woods; )
there are no big fish in Wisconsin |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | jonnysled - 2/14/2014 9:27 AM
BenR - 2/14/2014 9:17 AM
jonnysled - 2/14/2014 9:06 AM
never understood a boga for freshwater fishing, i suppose it makes sense they are used if you're a troller.
Might make it easier to handle larger fish, probably not much of a problem in your neck of the woods; )
there are no big fish in Wisconsin
Too bad we can't say the same for trollers... |
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| horsehunter - 2/14/2014 9:25 AM
I wish people that vertically lift fish by a gill plate would let me lift them by the ear.
Since you and CiscoKid both mentioned it...
Does everyone realize that in ALMOST EVERY video of pro's, amateurs, guides, everyone, they lift the fish from the water, vertically, with one hand, and then bring it to a horizontal position once they have sure footing on the deck of the boat? Even when it's an instructional on how to handle a fish - they lift it to photograph-level with one hand. And if the fish flops, they usually wait for it to calm down before supporting the weight of the body with their other hand. Often the only out-of-water fight that a musky puts up is in that 0.5 - 1 second time period of being lifted out of the net, which is when the angler has just one hand holding the jaw.
This is probably the wrong thread for this. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | jaultman - 2/14/2014 10:34 AM
horsehunter - 2/14/2014 9:25 AM
I wish people that vertically lift fish by a gill plate would let me lift them by the ear.
Since you and CiscoKid both mentioned it...
Does everyone realize that in ALMOST EVERY video of pro's, amateurs, guides, everyone, they lift the fish from the water, vertically, with one hand, and then bring it to a horizontal position once they have sure footing on the deck of the boat? Even when it's an instructional on how to handle a fish - they lift it to photograph-level with one hand. And if the fish flops, they usually wait for it to calm down before supporting the weight of the body with their other hand. Often the only out-of-water fight that a musky puts up is in that 0.5 - 1 second time period of being lifted out of the net, which is when the angler has just one hand holding the jaw.
This is probably the wrong thread for this.
I do think that's a good point. I'll admit that when I first started this sport maybe 7 years ago I didn't realize the importance of supporting the weight of the fish with BOTH hands at all times, including lifting them from the net. The first time I caught a little bit bigger fish, I heard a "pop" (like cracking knuckles) from just behind it's head when I had probably 3/4 of the fish out of the water. I figured that was not good...
Ever since then I make sure to support the belly of the fish as much as possible with my other hand as soon as I can. Makes lifting them a little harder because you're more off balance but haven't heard one pop since.
I rarely have to worry about my footing anymore. I tend to kneel down, and stay that way. I'm more balanced, and if I ever do lose my grip on a fish it wouldn't fall as far.
Tucker |
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Location: Walker, MN | If I had a choice of being netted, Boca'd or gaffed...I'd take the net job thank you very much! |
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| Masqui-ninja - 2/14/2014 3:21 PM
If I had a choice of being netted, Boca'd or gaffed...I'd take the net job thank you very much!
Would you rather a gaff or DBL 10? |
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Posts: 455
| Not if you had a hook in your eye. Frank got it rite. If your experienced you can use the gaff for fish that have hooks in gills or the eyeball area. For the guys who just have a net what do you do? You net it anyway, fish rolls in the bag, the eyeball is gone or the gills are yanked out and bleeding. Also agree with Frank that once you handle hundreds of fish you get a pretty good idea what works. I shake most fish off as my hooks are almost barbless. I do use a nice soft Lokie net if I want a photo. However if one is hooked bad or is mega big and I`m alone it is nice to have a gaff. Now I understand concerns about new people trying it. I was lucky to have expert instruction on big fish. Oh and no they don`t hold still. You have to know when to pull the trigger just like a net. Not for everybody or something you want to try without seeing it. However for old school guy`s who learned back in the day it`s just something else you have in the tool box. I don`t have a problem if Ben gaffs every fish because he is comfortable with it. Unlike wire line that he is not comfortable with lol. Andy |
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| DonPursch - 2/13/2014 6:23 PM
I'm just sayin gaffs and boga grips are all BAD news
Give reasons.
I've seen Boga's used after netting to help hold a Muskies jaw for quick hook extraction. I use a gaff occasionally for catch and releasing big Pike, often never taking them from the hole. |
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| muskyrat - 2/14/2014 4:45 PM
Not if you had a hook in your eye. Frank got it rite. If your experienced you can use the gaff for fish that have hooks in gills or the eyeball area. For the guys who just have a net what do you do? You net it anyway, fish rolls in the bag, the eyeball is gone or the gills are yanked out and bleeding. Also agree with Frank that once you handle hundreds of fish you get a pretty good idea what works. I shake most fish off as my hooks are almost barbless. I do use a nice soft Lokie net if I want a photo. However if one is hooked bad or is mega big and I`m alone it is nice to have a gaff. Now I understand concerns about new people trying it. I was lucky to have expert instruction on big fish. Oh and no they don`t hold still. You have to know when to pull the trigger just like a net. Not for everybody or something you want to try without seeing it. However for old school guy`s who learned back in the day it`s just something else you have in the tool box. I don`t have a problem if Ben gaffs every fish because he is comfortable with it. Unlike wire line that he is not comfortable with lol. Andy
I recall the wire reel, oops! |
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Posts: 455
| That was my bad Ben. You looked like you saw a ghost when I pulled the wire out. You said you didn`t like wire and stupid me says (Oh it`s no problem it won`t backlash. ) Lesson learned. If someone does not like something there is usually a good reason. |
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| muskyrat - 2/15/2014 7:19 AM
That was my bad Ben. You looked like you saw a ghost when I pulled the wire out. You said you didn`t like wire and stupid me says (Oh it`s no problem it won`t backlash. ) Lesson learned. If someone does not like something there is usually a good reason.
I learned to use/enjoy the wire:) Just not that day! |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | muskyrat - 2/14/2014 4:45 PM
Not if you had a hook in your eye. Frank got it rite. If your experienced you can use the gaff for fish that have hooks in gills or the eyeball area. For the guys who just have a net what do you do? You net it anyway, fish rolls in the bag, the eyeball is gone or the gills are yanked out and bleeding. Also agree with Frank that once you handle hundreds of fish you get a pretty good idea what works. I shake most fish off as my hooks are almost barbless. I do use a nice soft Lokie net if I want a photo. However if one is hooked bad or is mega big and I`m alone it is nice to have a gaff. Now I understand concerns about new people trying it. I was lucky to have expert instruction on big fish. Oh and no they don`t hold still. You have to know when to pull the trigger just like a net. Not for everybody or something you want to try without seeing it. However for old school guy`s who learned back in the day it`s just something else you have in the tool box. I don`t have a problem if Ben gaffs every fish because he is comfortable with it. Unlike wire line that he is not comfortable with lol. Andy
Moderators you were looking for topics for future...This would be a great one to get video on! I say work on getting a video made on proper use of a Gaff and Boga. When to use what, the benefits of them, and how not to use them. I say the vid should also have the use of a net, and proper hand landing technique. Compare the various techniques. Don't bash one over the other, but rather let the audience decide what to use. Kind of like equipment promotion. They all have there time and place. I think it would be great to have a vid showing the various tools with benefits and drawbacks. |
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Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Out east the gaf was The Tool to use. I was showed how good it was when we had a 50# muskie boat side with a mouth full of lure. If she was netted it would have beat her up for sure. The gaf inserted into the mouth and poked down through just past the jaw gave us full control of this beast. This controled the fish while it was 3/4 still in the water.
I have been part of this system and can tell you its nothing bad for the fish. One little hole in the bottom jaw is all it leaves.
Im sure everyone has had a muskie at one time that had a hole or tear in the bottom of the mouth from poor handling. U know the area where your thumb and fingers meet while holding the gill plate for a picture.
A good gaf is a very long deep hook. Not what some might think. I believe its a great tool for the big fish. You can catch, gaf the lower jaw, control the fish with one hand and remove the hooks with the other hand. All while the fish is still mostly in the water supporting the weight of the fish. Then just lower the head back into the water to be released. All this can be done without even touching the fish. How can this be a bad thing?
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I have recaptured gaffed fish a relatively short time later and the gaff spot was completely healed with just a small spot of hard scar tissue.
You can't gaff a green fish and you must be reasonably close to the water
Edited by horsehunter 2/15/2014 12:05 PM
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