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Posts: 36
| Hi,
I bought my boat 6 years ago and my OEM deep cycle batterie are not as good as they used too. I'm planning on changing them for next spring. I currently have a 17' footer aluminium with a 115 Yamaha. I have a Minn Kota Power Drive 2 55lbs that is set up with 2 batterie in serie.
I would like to have your opinion or experience with any deep cycle batterie, brand (Optima, Costco, AGM) , size (24,27,31) . I know there is more then just the batterie brand. The way you take care of your batterie will also impact the life longivity. I would also take some tips on how to take care of the deep cycle batterie, how long should I charge it? should I wait until it's completely dead before recharging?
Any tips are appreciated.
thanks. |
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Posts: 43
| Have you tried interstate batteries, that is all I run in my boat and all multiple vehicles I have
if you have a interstate battery dealer near you check and see if they have batteries that are called "blems"
these batteries have something wrong with the pretty outside, but are perfect inside.
And they are around $40 a battery, so can replace every year if you want to. I have had the same batteries in my truck and boat for three years now. I also have an on board charger that keeps everything alive, its one of the smart ones that will charge the battery until its full and then move on to the next one. |
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Posts: 5874
| The AP 55 is a 12volt model, so you must have your batteries connected in parallel. Running two batteries in parallel nearly triple the run time.
As for new batteries, now I'd go with AGM. Lots of sources out there, and get 31's if they will fit. I have used wetCell batteries with excellent results until I sold my last boat, so I wouldn't shy away from them.
I'm not sold on the spiral cell batteries yet. they just don't seem to have the reserve capacity of the lead acid batteries.
I recommend a good onboard charger. Minn Kota, Guest, Dual Pro, all make great chargers. Go with a 3 bank, and keep your cranking battery maintained, too. Always charge after every use. Heck, I plugged mine in after every outing, and kept them plugged in year round. |
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| Not sure your budget but Sams has Duracell which is the same as Deka Intimidator made by East Penn. Very good AGM at a great price. Check them out.
As far as spiral batteries, I ran them 8 years and they were still strong before I got nervous and change them.
Edited by 4amuskie 2/4/2014 6:07 PM
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Posts: 192
| If you got 6 years out of your current set of batteries, I'd buy the exact same thing again. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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Posts: 136
Location: Dane Country | I run Interstates in everything I own. |
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Posts: 865
| x2 on the interstates If you Put the two in Parallel You will get twice the amount of Amp hrs out of the batteries.
If you have the room get the Big 31 Series.... Great Battery for a good price |
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Posts: 36
| Thanks guys!
I will check if my wires are long enough because my 2 batterie are not in the same compartment. They are both under each console....the driver and passenger. But thanks for the tips!! Just to make sure about the in parallel set up.... i'm no genius in electricity....but black on black and red on red ? |
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Posts: 5874
| Yes, that is parallel 12V. Series would make 24 Volts.
And putting them in parallel nearly triples the run time. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | AGM's if they fit in your budget... no maintenance, last for years, Farm and Fleet Durations are good for the money.
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Posts: 149
| Shep - 2/5/2014 8:59 AM
Yes, that is parallel 12V. Series would make 24 Volts.
And putting them in parallel nearly triples the run time.
Why does it triple instead of double?
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Posts: 325
Location: Otsego, MN | How do you connect a on board charger to 2 -12 volt batteries in parallel? |
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Posts: 532
| just hook up one battery, they are connected by wireing them parrallel. |
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Posts: 865
| Why does it triple instead of double?
It Doesn't it DOUBLES the Batteries Amp Hours.... Example: two 12 Volt 100 Ampere Hour Batteries in Parallel would now have a 12 Volt 200 Ampere Output.....
Edited by cast4musky 2/5/2014 2:57 PM
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Posts: 5874
| Cast, are you an Electrical Engineer? I said it nearly triples your run time. Search on here and you'll find the answer from both me and Esox Maniac.
Found one for you.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=46...
Edited by Shep 2/6/2014 8:07 AM
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Posts: 149
| Shep - 2/6/2014 8:01 AM
Cast, are you an Electrical Engineer? I said it nearly triples your run time. Search on here and you'll find the answer from both me and Esox Maniac.
Found one for you.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=46...
That's a great thread. Thanks!
I have a 24v bow and 12v transom when fishing electric only lakes. I always carry two batteries for the transom mount but didn't think there was any benefit to hooking them together. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | BNelson - 2/5/2014 9:38 AM
AGM's if they fit in your budget... no maintenance, last for years, Farm and Fleet Durations are good for the money.
I agree with Shep on AGM. I ran interstate and Dekas for several years with decent life, though it seemed to me that my last set of wet/lead didn't last as long. I went with the F&F durations in all 3 boats per Brad's recomendation a couple years ago, and I really like them.
In terms of charging, charge them as soon as you get home. Charge them up before you put your boat into cold storage, and leave them in the boat. Charge once or twice during the coarse of the winter, and hope for spring.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/6/2014 9:56 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I see Keyes is pimpin Odyssey batteries... anyone else have a hard time believing they really could fish 4 full days in "strong winds" and then fish another lake and not charge them at all..? maybe they slipped/drifted many of the spots but 4 days? the price tag on those will scare 99.5% of guys away from them at $375 per battery...ouch!
Edited by BNelson 2/6/2014 10:00 AM
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Posts: 45
| BNelson - 2/6/2014 9:59 AM
I see Keyes is pimpin Odyssey batteries... anyone else have a hard time believing they really could fish 4 full days in "strong winds" and then fish another lake and not charge them at all..? maybe they slipped/drifted many of the spots but 4 days? the price tag on those will scare 99.5% of guys away from them at $375 per battery...ouch!
It's relative to sponsorship, I'd presume. He also pimped Muskies Inc. as having built the Green Bay fishery, in the show last week. I wasn't aware Muskies Inc. had a thing to do with it, or even existed in GB as it was being built. Credit should've been given to The Allen family, Winnebegoland club, C&R club, Dave's Musky club(among others) for footing 100% of the bill to get that fishery on its' feet. No rub on M.I. but they came back to town long after that fishery was re-established. Sorry to get off track, please don't delete, as it's really no dig on Keyes. He probably didn't know. I should probably start a thread elsewhere, diplomatically thanking the fathers of that fishery over there.
Edited by Boots Electric 2/6/2014 11:14 AM
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Posts: 619
| are these the batteries your talking about?
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/661626-duration-agm-blue-marin... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | yes.. |
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Posts: 865
| Funny You should ask, But Yes I was the Service Manager for General Research Laboratories here for almost 25 years. This Company was one of the main sources in supplying Batteries and Chargers to almost 85% of the lighting companies, TV News Crews, and Cinema companies in the United States. We built batteries and chargers upon request to Power anything out there Our largest being Batteries and chargers for our US Submarine Naval Bases. I mainly dealt with the Servicing of these Batteries and Chargers. It was critical to get maximum performance out of these batteries so many of these units were built to be discharged in Parallel, But charged in Series.. I have Yet to see two Batteries that are Discharged in Parallel get 3 times the Batteries Rated Ampere rating....... If one battery is rated at 100 amp Hr. then it will run approx. 1 hr. with a 100 amp load, or two hours with a 50 amp load..... If two batteries are put In parallel you will get approx. 2 hrs. with a 100 amp load and four hrs. with a 50 amp load.....There is a plus/minus of 7% to 9% due to Full true battery charge saturation.... But to get Triple 300 Amps out of two batteries that are rated 100 Amps each. WILL JUST NEVER HAPPEN. Believe me, I do understand you read this somewhere and you are repeating what you have read . But this is just not the Case, and never will be.. Here is another thing that many are not aware of..... Batteries that are in Parallel should ONLY be charged in series... Battery damage or Battery reversal Voltage can occur more often when not charged correctly. reason being the battery charger is basically a voltage sensor, so when in Parallel you will actually have the two Positives connected and the two Negatives connected so by putting on your charger you are Now only sensing the highest voltage of the two batteries. When the shutoff voltage is reached it will shut off. Now if one battery is older or not as strong as the other it will not fully charge, so the Higher voltage battery will be fully charged and the other will not. When discharged over and over again the weak battery may be down to 8 to 10 volts under a maximum load causing cell failure where it may never recover. That being said if your charger goes from a high charge state and then once charged goes to trickle charge state, that is Great.....Then you just have to be sure it is left on long enough to bring the weaker battery( if any) up to a full charge.... Fishing, and coming home fast charging and going out again is not the best for the batteries....But we all do it and probably have been for years... Thanks Mike |
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | BNelson - 2/6/2014 9:59 AM
I see Keyes is pimpin Odyssey batteries... anyone else have a hard time believing they really could fish 4 full days in "strong winds" and then fish another lake and not charge them at all..? maybe they slipped/drifted many of the spots but 4 days? the price tag on those will scare 99.5% of guys away from them at $375 per battery...ouch!
Funny you mention that. After doing a TON of research on this when I last bought batteries, I learned there are actually only a relatively small number of battery manufacturers. There's a lot of re-labeling going on with same or very, very similar batteries.
The Sears Die-Hard Platinum Marine 31 series are actually built by Odyssey. They are almost exactly the same battery, very slight difference, but that label means you can buy the Sears (on sale) for around $200. That's what I run, have been very happy with them so far.
If you really wanted absolute, top-of-the-line AGMs and money was no object I'd get something like http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/ but for what I do, there's no way I can justify that kind of cost. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | why are those top of the line? imo AGMs are AGMs more or less...look at the specs across the board of the $175 Duration AGM, $230 DieHard Platinum AGM to the $375 Odyssey AGM to the Lifelines you posted at about $320.. the specs are virtually identical all the way thru.... so maybe someone w real battery knowledge can enlighten us what the differences are if the specs are the same won't they in essence keep the trolling motor going for the same time?!?
Edited by BNelson 2/6/2014 1:01 PM
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Posts: 865
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Without Naming Names
You are Correct there are Very, Very, Few battery Manufacturers out there, There are hundreds of batteries that are now Private labeled and even sleeved in different colors and connection application to look like a different battery entirely. A Good Battery is a good battery check the output amperage, and the Suggested running time on the Maximum Load. Make sure the size is ok as there are many sizes out now..If you have the room the 31 Series is IMO the Best you can get for your dollar. Are AGM's Better ?????? Do not want to go there, They are smaller some have more output, But they are alot more money and charging systems are a little different. I have had them and they were fine, Was I Super Impressed by them No.....They are VERY COSTLY, for me I run any good Name brand that has the Specs I want at the best price.............A great Battery at a Great Cost with a great return policy is WALMART Yep actually made above the standard specs by 5%.........................Mike |
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Location: Contrarian Island | from my experience it seems like wet cell batteries for the most part last on avg half the years as AGMs... many of my friends have had lots of issues with batteries going bad/dead on trips etc.. every case it was a wet cell... nobody i know has had issues w AGMs.. so for me, it comes down to piece of mind.. when i go on a 8 to 12 hr drive from home to fish for a few days or a week the last thing I want is battery issues... if i can get 5-7 yrs out of a set of AGMs but might cost 2 x as much, and have zero maintenance, never having to worry about checking fluid levels etc that to me is worth it... now i'm sure there are guys on here that have had great luck w standard wet cell.. i've used AGMs since 2007 and won't buy another type
My last set of Trojan AGMs i put in my Ranger in the summer of 2007... I finally figured after 7 seasons w an average of 500 hrs per season on water it was time to replace them even tho they still had good life to them....I sold them on c list for 50 for the pair.. 
Edited by BNelson 2/6/2014 1:53 PM
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Posts: 45
| cast4musky - 2/6/2014 1:24 PM
.............A great Battery at a Great Cost with a great return policy is WALMART Yep actually made above the standard specs by 5%.........................Mike
This whole deal is opinion based,..... or not. Perhaps there are different manufacturers contracted to make walmart batteries during different years? I had poor success with the walmart ever starts in regular and the yellow top shelf style, even after a couple replacements. I'm meticulous in charging/maintenance. Others love them. There are almost as many opinions on batteries, as reels for double 10's. I think the key is maintenance, charging, storage, once you get a reliable set of batteries, no matter the brand. I thought I'd try the AGM's. If they last 5 years, and I don't have to crawl under my back deck to dig them out to fill, it'll be worth it. They sure are heavy.
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Location: Contrarian Island | i think Musky Hunter should do a battery shoot out test... see who really can go 4 days w out a charge...
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | BNelson - 2/6/2014 12:57 PM
why are those top of the line? imo AGMs are AGMs more or less...look at the specs across the board of the $175 Duration AGM, $230 DieHard Platinum AGM to the $375 Odyssey AGM to the Lifelines you posted at about $320.. the specs are virtually identical all the way thru.... so maybe someone w real battery knowledge can enlighten us what the differences are if the specs are the same won't they in essence keep the trolling motor going for the same time?!?
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marineflyer.php?id=30
Lifelines are 125Ah, most of the others are 100Ah. The specs are not identical between those and the Diehards/Odysseys. |
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Posts: 5874
| cast4musky - 2/6/2014 11:40 AM
Funny You should ask, But Yes I was the Service Manager for General Research Laboratories here for almost 25 years. This Company was one of the main sources in supplying Batteries and Chargers to almost 85% of the lighting companies, TV News Crews, and Cinema companies in the United States. We built batteries and chargers upon request to Power anything out there Our largest being Batteries and chargers for our US Submarine Naval Bases. I mainly dealt with the Servicing of these Batteries and Chargers. It was critical to get maximum performance out of these batteries so many of these units were built to be discharged in Parallel, But charged in Series.. I have Yet to see two Batteries that are Discharged in Parallel get 3 times the Batteries Rated Ampere rating....... If one battery is rated at 100 amp Hr. then it will run approx. 1 hr. with a 100 amp load, or two hours with a 50 amp load..... If two batteries are put In parallel you will get approx. 2 hrs. with a 100 amp load and four hrs. with a 50 amp load.....There is a plus/minus of 7% to 9% due to Full true battery charge saturation.... But to get Triple 300 Amps out of two batteries that are rated 100 Amps each. WILL JUST NEVER HAPPEN. Believe me, I do understand you read this somewhere and you are repeating what you have read . But this is just not the Case, and never will be.. Here is another thing that many are not aware of..... Batteries that are in Parallel should ONLY be charged in series... Battery damage or Battery reversal Voltage can occur more often when not charged correctly. reason being the battery charger is basically a voltage sensor, so when in Parallel you will actually have the two Positives connected and the two Negatives connected so by putting on your charger you are Now only sensing the highest voltage of the two batteries. When the shutoff voltage is reached it will shut off. Now if one battery is older or not as strong as the other it will not fully charge, so the Higher voltage battery will be fully charged and the other will not. When discharged over and over again the weak battery may be down to 8 to 10 volts under a maximum load causing cell failure where it may never recover. That being said if your charger goes from a high charge state and then once charged goes to trickle charge state, that is Great.....Then you just have to be sure it is left on long enough to bring the weaker battery( if any) up to a full charge.... Fishing, and coming home fast charging and going out again is not the best for the batteries....But we all do it and probably have been for years... Thanks Mike
So you are a degreed Electrical Engineer then? Because I'm reading you were a Service Manager. I worked for Johnson Controls Battery Division as an Electrical Engineer for several years. Johnson controls was and is the largest lead-acid battery manufacturer in the US. But what do I know. I just read that somewhere.
I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one.
I do agree on not charging in parallel. Connect your banks and then when it's time to charge, pull the jumper, or have it on an easily accessible switch.
It's also not a good idea to run an old battery and a new battery in parallel. Especially if they will be sitting off the charger long. The older weaker battery will drain the newer battery.
Edited by Shep 2/6/2014 3:48 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | Waldo, you are right, it looks like the lifelines are 125, the rest are 100... so how long does that equate to on the water?
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I too agree 100% with Shep on the runtime issue. Over the last ~30 years I have also worked with all of the major battery manufacturer's R+D engineers from little 7.2 AH VRLA to big 2VDC wet-cell jars that you need a forkllift to move. In the 1980's I worked very closely with the Johnson Controls Inc. battery folks in Milwaukee on VRLA battery research, Shep & I probably know many of the same folks... Dr. Scott Gerner comes to mind.. We (Schneider Electric) literally use millions of deep cycle VRLA and wet-cell batteries in both series and parallel configurations for our UPS and solar inverters from 100 watts to 6.4MW.
Selecting the right battery is a balancing act. Cost is probably the biggest driver. Cheap batteries are cheap for a reason, likewise expensive deep cycle batteries are expensive for a reason. Most of which is hidden to the average user..... you will typically get what you pay for! Your charger and how you charge them are critical to getting the expected service design life. Maybe Shep & I should write a MF marine deep cycle battery treatise for muskie anglers. I did an article for MI magazine a few years back.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 36
| Hi,
I was at the Sail last weekend and I saw some deepcycle batterie by the Duracell brand. As anyone ever heard of them or had any experience or know someone who as tried them.
Please share your comment, it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks. |
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Posts: 255
| Doesn't Johnson controls make both interstate and Walmart batteries? |
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Posts: 437
| I guess I am confused by this "batteries run in parallel should only be charged in series" business. I have a 24 volt system, I have a 2 bank onboard charger. My 2 separate 12 volt batteries have leads that connect to the receptacle in the front of the boat. I have a marinco plug that "jumpers" the two together forming 24 volts. The way I see it my batteries are not run in either series or parallel since they are not connected to each other in any way. My 2 bank charger has one bank connected to each battery.
Is my line of thinking here correct that I dont have anything to worry about in regards to this parallel vs series charging thing?
I banged my head on the wall for 4 hours over the weekend trying to figure out why my new motorguide wouldnt work only to find out I had to deploy the motor before it powered up so nothing amazes me anymore.  |
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Posts: 229
| BNelson - 2/6/2014 1:56 PM
i think Musky Hunter should do a battery shoot out test... see who really can go 4 days w out a charge...
The only way to go 4 days without a charge is to fish from shore or troll! |
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deep cycle batterie trolling motor