|
|
Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Am I the only one that has noticed the comments that MN DNR head Pereira has made to the Star Trib a couple of days ago? He stated that, in an effort to revitalize the walleye fishery on Mille Lacs he believes that opening spearing on the lake " makes sense".
In today's Star Trib there is another comment about opening spearing on Mille Lacs, in addition to lowering the size limit for Muskies and increasing their harvest rate. This quote was not from Pereira, but it is obviously from a spear fisherman. Am I being overly pessimistic that this is a part of the Dark house spear associations end game-being played out with no push back from Muskie anglers ?
Joe |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | We really need to fight back and propose just the opposite. Increased size limits and closing spearing on muskie lakes. What is this? The stone age? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | It isn't that simple. Closing spearing will never happen. Atleast not any time soon. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | Ok, so do we just complain about it for no reason then? What CAN we do? |
|
| |
|
| The spearing community is alot bigger than the muskie community. I will guarantee a large majority of anglers and lake shore owners hate the musky.
Since it is against the law to spear muskie anyway I guess it boils down to enforcement and trust in your fellow angler. What more do you want really. I have talked to dedicated spearers and they say you can tell the difference between northern and muskie.
From here it requires a dedicated effort at muskie education. Thats what you can do. Go to every walleye, bass, and bluegill club in Minnesota and convince them the muskie is not eating their beloved fish. Good luck.
Edited by 4amuskie 2/2/2014 1:23 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 205
| The more you fight to get spearing closed the more fight back your going to get to spear muskie. These two groups need to work together instead of against each other its been lose lose far to long for both groups |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3147
| Work with the Darkhouse!!!! HOW???? they don't even show up most of the time for the round table meetings "Working with the Darkhouse consists of giving them everything they want" While were at it why don't we just settle this Arab/Israel thing too. Darkhouse dosent work with anybody-this isn't an opinion this is a history.
closing spearing may not happen but the threat of it will at least keep the darkhouse busy fighting it,,,the reason these guys keep pushing is because we has Minn muskie fisherman never go on the offense we keep thinking were better and turn the other cheek which ends up with two black eyes instead of one. This is the first step in trying to cozy up to the walleye anglers they will eventually use the same tactic to open up muskies for spearing,,We NEED to get to public opinion before they do and point out all the info the DNR has about size limits improving the fishery. All of the things the darkhouse has done recently ten years ago people would have said they would NEVER ever get, why would they stop now.
Edited by happy hooker 2/2/2014 3:32 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | happy hooker - 2/2/2014 3:16 PM
closing spearing may not happen but the threat of it will at least keep the darkhouse busy fighting it,,,the reason these guys keep pushing is because we has Minn muskie fisherman never go on the offense we keep thinking were better and turn the other cheek which ends up with two black eyes instead of one. This is the first step in trying to cozy up to the walleye angers they will eventually use the same tactic to open up muskies for spearing,,We NEED to get to public opinion before they do and point out all the info the DNR has about size limits improving the fishery
Agreed. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | MN muskie anglers and out of state muskie anglers total over 200,000 every year and the spearers are a mere 14,000. They do have a stronger foothold in specific regions in comparison to muskie anglers.
I have heard people state that the two groups need to work together countless times as well. Never going to happen. The MN Darkhouse leadership is proactive against the stocking of new muskie waters, increase in size limits, and any other effort introduced by muskie anglers to increase muskie angling opportunities.
On the other hand muskie anglers have suggested higher size limits for pike, higher possession limits for small pike, and keeping spearing bans intact.
Basically both groups are proposing things that each side is against. They are trying to expand their sport and muskie anglers are trying to expand their sport.
It is a war of attrition. The spearers' numbers are dwindling as the muskie anglers are still rising. That is the only positive for muskie anglers.
In the end which ever group can bend a lawmakers ear the most will get what they want. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3147
| The spearing community may be bigger then the Muskie Community but the open water community is bigger then all,, that's where the battle is going to be won whichever side can sway them we need to convince them they need their trophy species protected with higher slots and the DNR info has this. We cant compete with their pocket politicians but we can go for public opinion which sways the politicians,
Edited by happy hooker 2/2/2014 3:46 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Anyone care to post a hyper text link to Pereira's email?
As far as I see it, the Dark house spearers contribute nothing and take whatever they want. I am sure there are a bunch of guys that spear and are conservationist . Unfortunately the leaders are ardent anti Muskie. Just read the Star Trib today. It plainly states that they should open it to spearing AND decrease size limits while opening possession limits of Muskie.
Take, take, take.
Joe |
|
| |
|
Posts: 536
| kevin cochran - 2/2/2014 3:33 PM
MN muskie anglers and out of state muskie anglers total over 200,000 every year and the spearers are a mere 14,000. They do have a stronger foothold in specific regions in comparison to muskie anglers.
I have heard people state that the two groups need to work together countless times as well. Never going to happen. The MN Darkhouse leadership is proactive against the stocking of new muskie waters, increase in size limits, and any other effort introduced by muskie anglers to increase muskie angling opportunities.
On the other hand muskie anglers have suggested higher size limits for pike, higher possession limits for small pike, and keeping spearing bans intact.
Basically both groups are proposing things that each side is against. They are trying to expand their sport and muskie anglers are trying to expand their sport.
It is a war of attrition. The spearers' numbers are dwindling as the muskie anglers are still rising. That is the only positive for muskie anglers.
In the end which ever group can bend a lawmakers ear the most will get what they want.
agreed! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1000
| Given the DNR's long range management plan for muskie waters and the aura of ML's muskies, I highly doubt that they'll lift a spearing ban on the lake.
That said, if somebody could provide some sort of information or provide direction for getting us organized, I think we could do very well and be done with this threat very quickly. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | Yeah, let's hope it doesn't go that far. But, when the top fisheries boss says he wouldn't be opposed to it, you gotta wonder. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | Starts at the election polls. Know what the candidates have stood for. As in the MN. Governor's apt to head of the DNR. The DNR has all but thrown the long range plan out the window. They have it seems in my opinion sided with a few, loud spearing activists and proceeded to remove spearing bands from lakes at an unprecedented rate. Regardless of any data on the subject. You want to win find the candidates and how they voted, remove the bad ones, elect the good ones. I am not against legit spearing. I AM against the things that we see and hear about that are not legit. I am against a handful of very loud obnoxious spear fishermen that seek to rally their ranks into possible illegal activities.
Mille Lacs is a separate issue, which from what I am told has had an over harvesting of the perch population by man & fish contributing to a decline in the walleye population. Seems that when the size limits created so many eyes in the slot that those who wished to always keep fish could not get keepers, perch became the target. I will not name those who have shared this information as they are M.L. fishermen. But there was several and pretty much all related the same story. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | The fisheries guys in my office are pretty open about their opinion of the spearing activists and are definitely not in favor of them. They have their hands tied when it come to some of this stuff. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | jakejusa - 2/4/2014 12:38 PM
Starts at the election polls. Know what the candidates have stood for. As in the MN. Governor's apt to head of the DNR. The DNR has all but thrown the long range plan out the window. They have it seems in my opinion sided with a few, loud spearing activists and proceeded to remove spearing bands from lakes at an unprecedented rate. Regardless of any data on the subject. You want to win find the candidates and how they voted, remove the bad ones, elect the good ones. I am not against legit spearing. I AM against the things that we see and hear about that are not legit. I am against a handful of very loud obnoxious spear fishermen that seek to rally their ranks into possible illegal activities.
Mille Lacs is a separate issue, which from what I am told has had an over harvesting of the perch population by man & fish contributing to a decline in the walleye population. Seems that when the size limits created so many eyes in the slot that those who wished to always keep fish could not get keepers, perch became the target. I will not name those who have shared this information as they are M.L. fishermen. But there was several and pretty much all related the same story.
I think you have some facts mixed up. You started off strong, but went downhill quick. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 61
| jakejusa - 2/4/2014 1:38 PM
Starts at the election polls. Know what the candidates have stood for. As in the MN. Governor's apt to head of the DNR. The DNR has all but thrown the long range plan out the window. They have it seems in my opinion sided with a few, loud spearing activists and proceeded to remove spearing bands from lakes at an unprecedented rate. Regardless of any data on the subject. You want to win find the candidates and how they voted, remove the bad ones, elect the good ones. I am not against legit spearing. I AM against the things that we see and hear about that are not legit. I am against a handful of very loud obnoxious spear fishermen that seek to rally their ranks into possible illegal activities.
Mille Lacs is a separate issue, which from what I am told has had an over harvesting of the perch population by man & fish contributing to a decline in the walleye population. Seems that when the size limits created so many eyes in the slot that those who wished to always keep fish could not get keepers, perch became the target. I will not name those who have shared this information as they are M.L. fishermen. But there was several and pretty much all related the same story.
Nope. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 552
Location: deephaven mn | There is a walleye problem on Mille Lacs, numbers are down, especially in the smaller size fish. There has not been a good reproduction year since 2008. There are a lot of factors involved. Thinning the Muskie population most likely not fix the problem. One problem is that the forage base is way down so at first glance you may think the top predator is the reason.
I am going to use 2500 as the number of muskies in the lake ( could be wrong) and I will use 400,000 walleyes (could be wrong) most fairly large and my point is; walleyes are predator as well and I think ratio wise walleyes may be doing way more damage than the muskies. Should the DNR change the slot and rule set on walleyes? Stay tuned |
|
| |
|
Posts: 82
| Yep, top of the line predator is the problem. Humans. Walleye guys have to be the worlds worst at releasing fish. If I know I'm going to have to let 90% of my catch go why use live bait? We all know what the mortality rate is for a swallowed hook. Also I really don't see how letting a group of guys who have the reputation of harvesting the biggest pike in the system will help. Would the DNR like another central Mn hammer handle lake? That should help.  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | DLC - 2/4/2014 7:48 PM
Yep, top of the line predator is the problem. Humans. Walleye guys have to be the worlds worst at releasing fish. If I know I'm going to have to let 90% of my catch go why use live bait? We all know what the mortality rate is for a swallowed hook. Also I really don't see how letting a group of guys who have the reputation of harvesting the biggest pike in the system will help. Would the DNR like another central Mn hammer handle lake? That should help. :-O
Do you think the DNR proposed this? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Pointerpride102 - 2/4/2014 9:48 PM
Do you think the DNR proposed this?
"Pereira ... stated that, in an effort to revitalize the walleye fishery on Mille Lacs he believes that opening spearing on the lake makes sense". |
|
| |
|
Posts: 82
| Not yet. But with the duck commissioner anything is possible. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Propster - 2/4/2014 8:58 PM
Pointerpride102 - 2/4/2014 9:48 PM
Do you think the DNR proposed this?
"Pereira ... stated that, in an effort to revitalize the walleye fishery on Mille Lacs he believes that opening spearing on the lake makes sense".
I haven't seen all of the articles, so I'd need some of the surrounding context. Spearing an unlimited amount of < 24 inch pike could assist in a rebound of a forage base. I'm not saying that is what he's saying, I don't know and don't follow the issue closely enough.
Nevertheless, the legislation the dark house association got passed pretty much tied the DNR's hands. I also don't expect the DNR to bad mouth the legislators, especially to a member of the media. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 182
| How about spearing folks having slot limits. That way at least they have to take a good look. Learn real measurements and no "guy depth perception" as my wife calls it. LOL? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 65
Location: Garrison, Mn | Here's what I can say as Musky fisherman, northern spearer and Mille Lacs lake homeowner. I don't see the issue. We can all tell a Musky follow from a norther follow from 30' away. It's even easier to tell looking straight down a spear hole. I can take my kids out on mille lacs in the summer and boat 30-40 northern/hour, all in the 20-34" range with ease. There are plenty of northern that can be harvested. There's also plenty of big muskies, very seldom do I go out and not see one. I haven't harvested one yet, but you can be sure the first one I can't get to go, I'll lay the blade to it. I'd love it if they open it to spearing, it's about having fun. I just don't see guys spearing muskies by mistake. That's just me. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 82
| Spearing muskies by mistake isn't the issue. If they did let you harpooners on the lake I think your maximum size should be 24 inches. Anything bigger stays in the lake. All we need is another hammer handle factory that we can't do anything about. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 65
Location: Garrison, Mn | I totally agree, don't need a hammer handle factory. Because Mille Lacs pike fishing has been phenomenal the past few years, tons of huge fish. That is the major problem with spearing, there is no release. It's more about education, it's a legal sport on most waters. Big pike taste like crap. The kids and I caught 4 pike while musky fishing one afternoon all over 40", we had to keep a 43". It was awful tasting. 24-26" is the perfect size for eating. I agree it is hard for most people to not stick that pig that comes into the hole, and that is a major problem. That is the major draw back about spearing Mile Lacs, again there is no release. So, yeah a 26" or less would be great for a spearing rule |
|
| |
|
Posts: 69
| Anyone else think part of the forage problem could be the hot summers we had 3 years ago and all the floating dead ciscos that resulted? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1247
Location: Walker, MN | I would be happy with a state-wide 30"-40" slot on Pike. At least Mille Lacs has a slot on Pike...still...removing the Pike spearing ban would be going backward imho.
Edited by Masqui-ninja 2/5/2014 7:47 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 65
Location: Garrison, Mn | In my opinion, people like to complain about the mille lacs "problem". It's only a problem for some. The forage issue...sure all the dead tulibee a few years ago didn't help. There were thousands of dead tulibee 2 summers ago, but they were mostly musky food, 98% of the dead ones were full grown. But, as far as forage....it's the only lake you can go out and catch 26+" walleye, 20+" smallmouth, 40+" northern and 50+" muskie on a consistent basis. Hey, when you catch hog walleyes muskie fishing that says something about the size of the fish in the lake and it gives you an idea about how much they eat. That's why I keep a place there. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 69
| With that big of a die off what does that do the recruitment of young of the year(walleye, small fish food)? I think the forage problem is way more than just too many predators in the system. |
|
| |
Spearing on Mille Lacs!???