|
|
Posts: 1301
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | From "The Fishing Wire":
"Twelve Minnesota Lakes Now Open to Spearing Fish
| December 6, 2013
Twelve lakes scattered throughout Minnesota, including two in the metropolitan area, now are open for darkhouse spearing, the Department of Natural Resources said.
Spearing restrictions were repealed effective Dec. 2 on the following lakes: Beers and West Battle in Otter Tail County; Big Mantrap in Hubbard County; Deer, Moose, North Star and connected Little North Star and Spider in Itasca County; Lobster in Douglas County; Cross Lake Flowage in Pine County; Eagle in Hennepin County; Owasso in Ramsey County and Sugar in Wright County.
Darkhouse spearing is limited to northern pike, catfish, whitefish and other rough-fish species. Other game fish species such as muskellunge are illegal to spear at any time. Anglers ages 18-89 need both an angling license and a spearing license to spear, unless otherwise exempt.
All other regulations related to spearing, angling and shelters apply to these waters. Additional information is available on page 77 of the 2013 Minnesota Fishing Regulations handbook and online at www.mndnr.gov/regulations/fishing.
For more information, contact the DNR area fisheries office nearest the lake of interest using the online directory at www.mndnr.gov/areas/fisheries.
- See more at: http://www.thefishingwire.com/story/305920#sthash.jdluZqjA.dpuf "
Edited by Larry Ramsell 12/6/2013 9:28 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Knew it was comin', but still...uggh. Accidents, and accidents on purpose, will happen. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 82
| This is what happens when Mn muskie anglers stay quiet and the spearers are willing to talk to legislators. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 42
Location: Shoepack | Tough news to take. This story and the story about the 4 walleye poachers (as defined by the MN DNR) let off the hook (small pun intended) due to a 176 year old treaty make it tough to have a positive outlook on the MN fishing scene. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Looking forward to trying West Battle, Beers and Lobster! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 28
| I cannot think of one legit management or resourceful reason as to why these lakes were opened up....Complete head-scratcher. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4
| Dittos JAT!! I agree! While the spearers were contacting their representatives to get all these lakes opened up, the muskie fishermen in MN must have had their heads in the sand. At our local muskie meeting when I brought this up that this may happen, no one seemed to care but me. I don't get it, what am I missing???
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 11
| The MN DNR, the spearing lobby, and the MN Legislature are all a complete joke. None of them care about the natural resources of the state of Minnesota. Apparently its more important for a bunch of rednecks to carry on a tradition, then it is to protect a fishery, or the investment that went into the fishery. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 29
| They must have a better eye than me to tell the difference between a muskie and a pike from the top just before they skewer it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | not sure about some of the other lakes but the Grand Rapids additions are tough...a few of those are smaller lakes with not a great density and good pike fishing...hard to imagine that benefits the resource in any way possible. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Mike Palmer - 12/7/2013 11:35 AM
The MN DNR, the spearing lobby, and the MN Legislature are all a complete joke. None of them care about the natural resources of the state of Minnesota. Apparently its more important for a bunch of rednecks to carry on a tradition, then it is to protect a fishery, or the investment that went into the fishery.
Maybe we shut all fishing down, you know, to protect the resource.
I'm sure you're staunchly against all fishing harvest at all times of the year. Harvest is harvest. Or do you not like it because you don't do it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mike Palmer - 12/7/2013 12:35 PM
The MN DNR, the spearing lobby, and the MN Legislature are all a complete joke. None of them care about the natural resources of the state of Minnesota. Apparently its more important for a bunch of rednecks to carry on a tradition, then it is to protect a fishery, or the investment that went into the fishery.
Really? Do you think insulting these folks will somehow endear them to your cause?
It's that attitude that empowers them to make the changes made the last couple years. And the 'muskie fishermen' in MN did NOT have their 'head in the sand', they simply were not able to stop this from happening. This ain't the first time the subject has been brought up here.
Q:
If you don't know the history and law that allows the Nations to harvest fish and game, you truly need to study the subject in order to understand it. The two issues are not even remotely related.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8866
| I could actually see this being a benefit to some of the lakes if they have abundant populations of small pike. As for the giant pike and any incidental muskies, that's obviously not good.
I'd be interested to see how many people actually spear and what sort of harvest numbers are put down before I decide the world is coming to an end.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2389
Location: Chisholm, MN | esoxaddict - 12/7/2013 1:34 PM
I could actually see this being a benefit to some of the lakes if they have abundant populations of small pike. As for the giant pike and any incidental muskies, that's obviously not good.
I'd be interested to see how many people actually spear and what sort of harvest numbers are put down before I decide the world is coming to an end.
[/QUOT
Just drive up to grand rapids right now and you'll see how many people spear. Its a lot and I already know people who have been out on moose. Personally, i dont care if they spear the pike, but I know plenty of peiple who will at a muskie just out of spite. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Kirby Budrow - 12/7/2013 1:48 PM
esoxaddict - 12/7/2013 1:34 PM
I could actually see this being a benefit to some of the lakes if they have abundant populations of small pike. As for the giant pike and any incidental muskies, that's obviously not good.
I'd be interested to see how many people actually spear and what sort of harvest numbers are put down before I decide the world is coming to an end.
[/QUOT
Just drive up to grand rapids right now and you'll see how many people spear. Its a lot and I already know people who have been out on moose. Personally, i dont care if they spear the pike, but I know plenty of peiple who will at a muskie just out of spite.
Out of 'spite' for what reason? |
|
| |
|
| Ummm...this isn't a treaty issue, it's just state law and open to everyone.
There's a place for harvest (by whatever means people want), but there's a place for protecting some fish from harvest too. It's not like there's a shortage of water open to spearing in MN.
It was awesome predictably catching 36-40" pike from Mantrap and letting them go. Without the 36" limit and spearing ban? In a lake that small with water that clear those fish will be gone soon and it's back to hammer-handles. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3165
| Maybe the snowmobilers will take care of this whole thing,,they want a law that permits only a 20 inch max hole on lakes |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | I speared 20 years ago it was fun . I would like it stoped in all lakes but that wont happen . each state have there own laws for there hunting and fishing. mn you can troll any lake you want . winter you can use 2 lines summer 1 .Wi some lakes you can troll some you cant every state has stupid laws . |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2389
Location: Chisholm, MN | sworrall - 12/7/2013 1:49 PM
Kirby Budrow - 12/7/2013 1:48 PM
esoxaddict - 12/7/2013 1:34 PM
I could actually see this being a benefit to some of the lakes if they have abundant populations of small pike. As for the giant pike and any incidental muskies, that's obviously not good.
I'd be interested to see how many people actually spear and what sort of harvest numbers are put down before I decide the world is coming to an end.
[/QUOT
Just drive up to grand rapids right now and you'll see how many people spear. Its a lot and I already know people who have been out on moose. Personally, i dont care if they spear the pike, but I know plenty of peiple who will at a muskie just out of spite.
Out of 'spite' for what reason?
My guess is that they donit because they know they probably won't get caught. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Kirby is right,...The mentality in N.Mn. is this.... a fish is a fish, which is food,...no matter the species,.... Walleye Guys will Kill any and every muskie they can because they think that all muskies eat ALL of their Walleyes
That's a fact.....This Issue has Nothing to do with Indian Treaties.
MI and others, did fight against this expansion of new Spearing lakes.
Spearing is a sport that Isn't going away soon. deal with it.
And the Mn, DNR knows their shnit,....Their Biologist's didn't want more lakes opened up to spearing. Exspically on Muskie Waters.
Jerome |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2389
Location: Chisholm, MN | Thank you Jerome. A guy I talked to (who every fisherman in GR knows because he owns a business) said that he would spear a muskie if it came into him just because he couldn't resist. Those lakes are already in trouble and now one more thing working against the muskies. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sounds like the warden up there has a couple good prospects for a nice fine. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Kirby Budrow - 12/7/2013 5:16 PM
Thank you Jerome. A guy I talked to (who every fisherman in GR knows because he owns a business) said that he would spear a muskie if it came into him just because he couldn't resist. Those lakes are already in trouble and now one more thing working against the muskies.
People say a lot of things. Talk is cheap.
People tell me all the time they're going to give up boating/fishing because of AIS laws. Yet I'll see them a week later. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | sworrall - 12/7/2013 6:26 PM
Sounds like the warden up there has a couple good prospects for a nice fine.
Steve,
Fining a couple of Rogue Spearers isn't going to stop the slaughter of Muskies....Most people up here think the Muskies are eating Everything......Spearing on Muskie lakes is a horrible Idea....
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I agree, they were protected for a reason. Getting this changed back won't be easy.
Interesting how politics can allow fish and game law to contradict what the people charged with managing same think is best.
Happens in WI too, but usually not through legislation.
Not to be rude, but isn't that reputation of 'it's a fish, so it's to eat' what so many MN anonymous posters have, over the years, self righteously accused us N WI cheese heads of? And now it turns out N MN folks are afflicted with that? Say it ain't so...:) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1297
Location: Walker, MN | Top H2O - 12/7/2013 5:27 PM
Kirby is right,...The mentality in N.Mn. is this.... a fish is a fish, which is food,...no matter the species,.... Walleye Guys will Kill any and every muskie they can because they think that all muskies eat ALL of their Walleyes
That's a fact.....This Issue has Nothing to do with Indian Treaties.
MI and others, did fight against this expansion of new Spearing lakes.
Spearing is a sport that Isn't going away soon. deal with it.
And the Mn, DNR knows their shnit,....Their Biologist's didn't want more lakes opened up to spearing. Exspically on Muskie Waters.
Jerome
Some. The mentality of some. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Guys, this is the truth. I work Const. in the Mines in N Mn. from U.S.Steel in Keewatin to Cliffs in Silver Bay to ArcelorMittal in Virginia and Hibbing taconite in Hibbing,...
I've met hundreds of people in the last 19 yrs. that fish multiple species,... and most of these people blame the Muskies for a dwindling population of their favorite fish,.... the walleye, Perch, crappie, bass, you name it....Most people that don't fish for muskies up here go out of their way to Kill Muskies,... I've talked to them, I've worked with them, I've eaten and drank with them,...They don't follow the Laws up here... Unethical Spearers up here will kill anything that comes their way including Muskies, Pike and Walleye...It's just the way it is..
I've had guys brag that they just filled their 2nd freezer with "over limits" of walleye and then blame the Muskies for eating "Their Walleye's"
Spearing on Muskie and Big Pike water is a BIG mistake.....Let the DNR manage the fishery 's , not a few politicians that don't have a clue. |
|
| |
|
| Some people just like to kill for no reason, whether its fish or animals. I don't get that mentality either but there are many out there. I wish I saw more CO's out on the lakes I fish, but truthfully I can think of one time I've been checked by a CO in the last 3 years.
Edited by Baby Mallard 12/7/2013 8:18 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Eastern Ontario | I live in eastern Ontario and we also have a bunch of guys that blame the muskies for their inability to catch pickerel ( walleye to you ). They troll a rapala a foot under the surface till the beer is gone then blame the muskies for eating all the pickerel. They say they will kill every muskie they catch but fortunately they can't catch them either. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | I have had the same experiences as Jerome. Don't even look for it; it's just all around.
Short of all the debate over the reasons of which way to manage I wish our legislators would let the DNR do "THEIR" jobs. I've never liked all the ways these changes were piggy back bills to get things pushed through without proper due diligence. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8866
| I think we've all heard that sentiment a time or two. I've heard it more than once. The best one was the guy who asked what we were fishing for, and when we said "muskies" his response was "Good. I hope you kill every one of them. They're ruining the fishing! We used to be able to go out on Friday and catch 50 fish for our Friday night fish fry every week like it was nothing. Now we're lucky to catch 20! #*^@ muskies are eating all the fish in the lake! I can't even fill my freezer anymore!"
Yah. Fish fries... And every @#$% in the world out there on the lake every weekend trying to fill their freezers from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Now you can't limit out in a few hours anymore, and you want to blame the muskies for eating all the fish? Who is really eating all the &*^ fish??!
Needless to say, I am NOT the proper spokesperson for conservation. I'm too honest. And for some odd reason, people just do NOT want to hear the truth.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | esoxaddict - 12/7/2013 1:34 PM
I could actually see this being a benefit to some of the lakes if they have abundant populations of small pike.
It's just not the case though. These Grand Rapids Lakes are small in size and are anything but overrun by hammer handles. Been on Moose a few times and was pretty surprised what healthy, decent sized pike they had in a lake that size. ( might as well ruin a good thing though rather then let it ride...) Not really numbers lakes for Muskies either, like Jerome pointed out I can't imagine for a second people won't make mistakes or simply take cracks out of spite. What are the chances of getting checked out there??....I fail to see how this is beneficial in any way. I feel like MN is taking steps backwards the last few years in several different areas. |
|
| |
|
| Guys spear muskies on miltona. They do it on purpose. I have talked to a dnr officer i have the area that told me as much. Problem is that they spear them out of spite/hate/who knows why and it is next to impossible to catch them. When the ice come out you can see them, we have caught them with marks in their backs.
Same guys will go to battle and do the same thing. Sucks
Its too bad that the guys hired to manage the fisheries arent allowed to do their jobs... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 441
| I talked to three or four people, this year, on Lake Vermilion, who said they speared big muskies. They were speared off their docks, in the spring, when muskies are spawning.
Same story, we kill every muskie we can, because they are eating OUR WALLEYES!!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Nice to open up spearing on a brood stock lake (eagle) seriously?!?! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 82
| Have any of you heard of the tip line? 1-800-652-9093 |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2389
Location: Chisholm, MN | Who would actually say publicly "hey, I'm the one who turned you guys in!"? Maybe we have been using tip.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 12/9/2013 7:38 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 3165
| How DARE they accuse the muskie of eating walleyes!!!!
nevermind the fact that we have walleye colored baits,,we continue to produce baits in and name them walleye color.
and we stand up in 3 ft waves in november tossing 1lb size or $50 crankbaits in walleye color.
they dont eat walleyes 'trust us' we muskie fisherman know,, |
|
| |
|
Posts: 82
| There are study 's out there that state walleyes make up less than 3% of the muskies diet. The 41 stocked lakes study for Mn which was peer reveiwed by the American fisheries society States muskies stocked at the level that Mn does they have no impact on walleyes. So no I don't think they eat many walleyes at all. I use bright orange lures too and don't believe they ate all the blaze orange fish out of the lake. 
Edited by DLC 12/9/2013 9:06 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 4
| I found it interesting last night watching the local Fargo FOX channel news. They have a North Dakota Outdoors edition every Sunday night. It happened to be on spearing in North Dakota and that the number of registered spearers has gone from 1100 to 2600 in the last couple of years. They also stated that NONE of the lakes that have muskies in them in ND are open to spearing. Now granted there are not to many muskie lakes in NDak, but at least NDak Game & Fish realizes they need to protect the muskies they do have. |
|
| |
|
| You need to have pretty good info. for TIP to work. Absolutely by all means use TIP, but it's tough to get enough info for the CO to actually try to do anything about it. Now days, CO's can't even enter peoples ice houses unless the owner gives them permission or they have a search warrant.
Edited by Baby Mallard 12/9/2013 11:37 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | We live in a world where you would be hard pressed to free up a 100K for a resource issue or to get more Conservation Officers in the field. But yet have athletes making millions annually.
At the same time the spearing bans are being lifted WITH the support of the Governor, they are still blocking new stocking efforts. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 68
| Huh? That's kind of a jumbled post Jake. I wasn't aware that the DNR and professional athletes were funded from the same resources. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1150
Location: Minnesota. | Top H2O - 12/7/2013 8:01 PM
Guys, this is the truth. I work Const. in the Mines in N Mn. from U.S.Steel in Keewatin to Cliffs in Silver Bay to ArcelorMittal in Virginia and Hibbing taconite in Hibbing,...
I've met hundreds of people in the last 19 yrs. that fish multiple species,... and most of these people blame the Muskies for a dwindling population of their favorite fish,.... the walleye, Perch, crappie, bass, you name it....Most people that don't fish for muskies up here go out of their way to Kill Muskies,... I've talked to them, I've worked with them, I've eaten and drank with them,...They don't follow the Laws up here... Unethical Spearers up here will kill anything that comes their way including Muskies, Pike and Walleye...It's just the way it is..
I've had guys brag that they just filled their 2nd freezer with "over limits" of walleye and then blame the Muskies for eating "Their Walleye's"
Spearing on Muskie and Big Pike water is a BIG mistake.....Let the DNR manage the fishery 's , not a few politicians that don't have a clue.
Bingo!! This is a really sad state of affairs. Politicians have more in line of their own prurient needs than what's really for the good of the resource methinks.
What a lousy deal we've been handed.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8866
| happy hooker - 12/9/2013 7:38 AM
How DARE they accuse the muskie of eating walleyes!!!!
nevermind the fact that we have walleye colored baits,,we continue to produce baits in and name them walleye color.
and we stand up in 3 ft waves in november tossing 1lb size or $50 crankbaits in walleye color.
they dont eat walleyes 'trust us' we muskie fisherman know,,
Considering that our end of day report usually goes something like this:
"Saw two, got a 34, lost a small one earlier" I don't know that I'd put all that much stock in the color of the lures we buy. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | One thing that needs to be mentioned here is fisheries are managed by the state for public use. Part of the public includes spearers, whether you like it or not. Now that isn't meant as a pro spearing point, just the fact that there is more use than just musky fishing.
Sometimes the smallest minority can make the biggest fuss and get what they are asking for.
Many valid points in here and this post isn't meant to diminish them. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | I don't like the fact that muskies will be speared (intentionally or not) because of this, but look at it from a spearer's perpective.
Outside of Cass, Leech, and a few other lakes, Minnesota had basically no real musky fishery until ten years ago or so. Pike spearing has been there forever, and is a tradition for a small amount of folks there. Then musky fishing explodes, and you characterize them as rednecks who shouldn't be allowed to do what they want? Form the MMPA, like you ever gave a #*#* about big pike? No wonder they fight tooth and nail against you. You're a Johnny come lately who thinks you're better than them.
I have a lot of family and friends from Minnesota, and the vast majority of the state is filled with great folks. But some of the musky community there is so insular and arrogant I can't even believe it. They're the same crowd that posts on football boards about how all Wisconsinites are fat, poor hicks who have nothing to live for other than the Packers. You later find out that that same guy is too scared to have ever ventured further than 8 miles from his hometown of Funkley, MN in his entire life, and he's fat too. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | ^ yup |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8866
| Moltisanti - 12/9/2013 4:27 PM
I don't like the fact that muskies will be speared (intentionally or not) because of this, but look at it from a spearer's perpective.
Outside of Cass, Leech, and a few other lakes, Minnesota had basically no real musky fishery until ten years ago or so. Pike spearing has been there forever, and is a tradition for a small amount of folks there. Then musky fishing explodes, and you characterize them as rednecks who shouldn't be allowed to do what they want? Form the MMPA, like you ever gave a #*#* about big pike? No wonder they fight tooth and nail against you. You're a Johnny come lately who thinks you're better than them.
I have a lot of family and friends from Minnesota, and the vast majority of the state is filled with great folks. But some of the musky community there is so insular and arrogant I can't even believe it. They're the same crowd that posts on football boards about how all Wisconsinites are fat, poor hicks who have nothing to live for other than the Packers. You later find out that that same guy is too scared to have ever ventured further than 8 miles from his hometown of Funkley, MN in his entire life, and he's fat too.
I nominate this for the M1st hall of fame. I could not have said it better myself. We can be the biggest dicks on the planet when to comes to other people enjoying their angling sport of choice. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 19
| Coming from 3 out of staters that haven't seen what spearing and the lack of/repeal of slot limits have done to the pike fishery in MN. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | As I posted earlier, whether to do with spearing, stocking, or what ever these changes should be more visible and at least proposed to the areas being affected and DNR should carry some input. Every time a lake is to be stocked with muskies there is a big deal made and locals are made aware and can vote on it; Ex: Brainerd lakes, Pokegama, etc.
Do you think the residence of Deer, Moose, Spider, and North Star are aware of this change coming? These are lakes I fish regularly and when I talk to people who fish and live in the area they have not heard about this. Due diligence are the key words and our politicians are not doing it. As mentioned it's public resources so let the public have a vote without sneaking bills through.
Personally there are 9,950 out if 10,000 (you get the idea) lakes to spear all the nice pike, let's leave a few so I don't have to go to Canada for everything. These lakes spit out 35-40" regularly for me and the slot seems to be working to me. |
|
| |
|
Location: MN | How many lakes have muskies in MN? How many lakes have pike? Do they really need these few extra lakes to spear in with the endless opportunities to chase pike? That is my main issue with this. There are soooo many good pike lakes up here why do they need the muskie waters too? Besides the pike spearers no one cares for pike so they are thick.
Spearing is a big deal in N MN. I have talked to and know of many guys who will admit to dropping the tines on some big walleyes. They think it's funny, they say they can't resist, or they think they are cool for doing it. Those same guys won't be able to resist when a 40+ inch muskie swims under their hole. Not enough CO's out there to keep it from happening. Even if they do get caught they will play the ignorant plea and probably get a slap on the wrist. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ben,
The points were very valid, and should be taken to heart by the Muskie community everywhere. Are you saying only those who live in MN should have a viewpoint, or if one is presented by a MN resident that is as Moltisanti describes, it should not be challenged or discussed? I fail to see any connection between residency in MN and the ability to discuss management of the resource et al in a manner that will result in positives.
Where did any of those three say that slot limits should have been repealed, or spearing increased? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | BFD - 12/9/2013 4:54 PM
Coming from 3 out of staters that haven't seen what spearing and the lack of/repeal of slot limits have done to the pike fishery in MN.
i lived on a MN pike spearing lake from '80-'87 and speared, spend 1/2 my time in that town now with a residence there and one here in WI. and still get out a few times per year with many friends from childhood who have continued their tradition and are nice enough to take me out when i'm there. the tradition of MN. dark house spearing is not filled with the boogyman that they are characterized as by the anti's.
it's fun, you should try it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | DLC - 12/9/2013 5:03 PM
Well I'm with the MMPA, I'm a packer fan that was born in the U.P. and even lived in Las Vegas . Im also normal wieght for how tall i am. So I guess I don't fit into firsts nice little package for us. Glad you seem to know so much of what's going on. The bans were put in place way before I ever became a resident here 30 years ago. The only reason anyone had to speak up for the pike in this state is its abysmal and the DNR has been completely handcuffed on managing them. No one in the MMPA wants to see spearing go away, just would like it if they would follow scientific evidence like everyone else. Guess I could say the same thing about your tribal spearing problems.
I absolutely agree with you on all counts. I watched my home water where I cut my teeth musky fishing get 60% of the adult population eradicated by tribal spearing. The point is, it's a good thing cooler heads prevailed and the Lake Association brought it to the DNR and GLIFWC.They did a two year study, came up with the conclusion, and the GLIFWC spoke with the tribes and got the spearing on that water cut down significantly.
Nothing happened for the better when people trashed the Indians and threw rocks at them at the launch. You're better off not peeing the people off and working with them instead of constantly villifying them. I've learned that first hand.
Look at your reaction to my post. How do you think they react to being called rednecks and poachers? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 19
| I am far from anti-spearing, I have my darkhouse parked in the backyard waiting for good ice. I gave up sticking fish years ago, prefer to watch and angle them. What the MDAA has done has handcuffed the DNR in managing the pike fishery in MN which cannot be disputed. Does anyone on the board resident or non resident think that taking the largest pike out of the system is a good thing? That is exactly what happens time and time again and we are left with hammer handle factories. Is it purely coincidence that our top 3 pike fisheries LOTW, Red, and Mille lacs all have slots limits, with Mille Lacs having a spearing ban, and Red having water too tanic to see/spear?
Moltisanti you blast the MMPA like they are the problem? There are actually some of here in MN that like targeting big pike both open water and under the ice. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i agree with slots …
MMPA has a PR need … all i've seen from them is what they've put here over the past few years and it's been a broad-brush anti-spearing tactic that seems to have created an us vs. them approach (maybe from the audience?). if that's changed then i'd imagine they'll get more accomplished.
a spearing slot would be a conundrum but the darkhouse guys/gals want big pike too and have been at it a lot longer than the MMPA. that said, the lake i've speared and intend to spear again this year is not Cass and this subject gets more delicate when that lake is in the conversation … which is understandable from both sides of the fence.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | The only interaction I've ever had with the MMPA was when there was a petition on here regarding Cass Lake spearing and a group of anglers on this very board vowing not to patronize any business in support of lifting the ban. Talk about positive image...might as well just break all of your toys so the other kids can't play with them while you're at it. That very post encouraged all musky anglers to sign that petition. This after insulting Wisconsin anglers for coming to "their lakes" and fishing "their" spots. The MMPA probably has their heads in the right place, but like Sled referred to, their PR is sorely lacking.
Picture this scenario. I'm an avid bowhunter. My crew chooses to shoot only P and Y bucks on our parcel of land, along with our neighboring land owners to the south and east. The guy who owns the 80 north of us and the guy who owns the 240 to the west shoot every god#*^@ thing that moves. They are meat hunters. I've had discussion with them, but they aren't interested in passing on bucks. They need the meat and they like to shoot deer. That is their right. Not to mention we have owned that property for 7 years and they have owned theirs for 50 plus.
How do you think they would like it if some 30 something out of towner like me came up there and started a QDM "alliance" that was pushing for QDM throughout Dunn County? "I'm the head of this group. We care about big bucks...you don't. You shoot everything. We are going to win."
What do you think the neighbor's reaction would be?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8866
| Probably the same reaction you'd get from the N/WI folks who don't want to see their lakes opened up to trolling... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3165
| theres a technique to spearing muskies they have told us. You target the fat part of the tail in front of the fork. That way you dont kill them right away like a center shot, by getting them in th rear quarter they swim away from the hole before they die and they wont be seen through the hole laying on the bottom.
Right now we want to increase minimum to 55 inches DNR wants 52,,,The Darkhouse is fighting ANY increase,,,,WHY???? whats this got to do with them,,,easy to figure, Once they get all the regs lifted on pike they will now go for muskie spearing and a higher size limit means less muskies for the fridge |
|
| |
|
Posts: 61
| Here's my take on this deal. Live 20 minutes from Sugar, fished a lot out there for skis, and its been a decent lake. That being said, I've also speared a few times, but prefer to angle out a spear hole. As far as managing the lake for the future, this seems wrong to me. I'm not a fisheries biologist or anything but this isn't the right thing to do.
Why would they put all these years of C&R and size limits on a "musky lake" only to allow spearing in the lake, and put the slight chance out there that someone may accidently or purposely spear a musky? It's not IF its going to happen, it's when, and how many times.
Want to take hammer handle northerns out of these lakes? How about the DNR goes out there in the spring in the creeks and shallows and physically take them out and take record.
I also think this may be just the beginning of something to come, in 5 years, who knows, maybe they open Leech, Bemidji, Mille lacs and Miltona. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 10
| Always a fun discussion. Long story short....Spearing just does not HELP the Muskie populations. Only hurts it. Sad to see...hopefully we don't see an effect from this in the next 5-10 years when it comes to Muskies reproducing |
|
| |
|
Posts: 373
Location: Maine Township, MN | My folks have a place on West Battle. I fish it a lot for all species. Mostly muskie and walleye. This was a blindsided attack. There was no communication to the lakeshore owners that this was going to happen. How were we supposed to defend the muskies??? WB has a pike slot also. How are spearers supposed to tell if their pike is <24" or >36"??? This makes no sence to me!
The comments earlier about "up north" anglers wanting all muskies dead is pretty true from the comments I've heard at a particular bait shop and other folks around the area. The old owner made a comment to me that she wished every muskie caught would have it's belly slit and thrown back into the lake and that she tells all her customers that.
Wow. This is a really big mess!
Edited by nocturnalmotors 12/10/2013 4:03 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 19
| Moltisanti,
I think you may have misinterpreted my post. We are not trying to create a trophy pike fishery, but simply a healthy fishery in general. The lakes around central MN have the potential to be great fisheries but so many are just overrun with stunted hammer handle pike. Slots don't work on every single lake nor should they be put on every lake. You can still harvest fish on slot limit lakes also no one is being denied that right.
Stunted pike have negative impacts on walleye stocking, perch populations, and they simply are a pain the azz! Spearers don't want hammer handle pike, they want the bigger fish. We have a MDAA member in our MI chapter that swears up and down he doesn't stick the big fish and gives them a pass. The next meeting he will show you the 16lber and 12 lber him and the son got last weekend. In central and northern mn we have a lot of seasonal workers that are unemployed in the winter, myself included. Lots of these folks don't have time to fish open water but have all the time in the world to fish in the winter and put in some serious hours. It doesn't take long to knock down the population of big fish and we are seeing this very clearly on many of our waters. |
|
| |
|
Location: MN | BSG - 12/10/2013 3:26 PM
I also think this may be just the beginning of something to come, in 5 years, who knows, maybe they open Leech, Bemidji, Mille lacs and Miltona.
They allow pike spearing on Leech. Same as Winnie.
I know a resort owner on Leech who rents spear houses. He informs all of his customers that you cannot spear muskies and even has pictures comparing the two including pics from above. He said each year a few nice muskies are stuck in his houses by customers. Most are accidental but he has caught guys trying to sneak them home. He also said he has found muskies slid under the ice by the houses.
Like others have said it is not IF but how many and how often. I think allowing pike spearing on small lakes is going to have a much quicker and dramatic effect than some of the big lakes like Leech. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 313
Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | The leadership of the MDAA have stated their goal in MN in the future, and more near future than distant, is that they want the privilege of spearing muskies. Much of what is taking place right now and in the recent years leading up to now are steps towards making that happen. They have no dog in the fight over proposed/potential increases in muskie length limits in MN, but have vowed to fight any increase with everything they have. Those increases work towards protecting the largest fish from harvest - by any method including angling. It presents another obstacle to muskies ever being allowed to be legally speared in MN.
Incidental or even intentional spearing of muskies under current regulations is bad enough for the populations, although its going to happen and we all have to live with that. Education is still the best thing we can do. Talk to people. We can't "fix" all the bad apples and never will, but there are people we can get through to. Those are the ones that matter and we can't alienate. That said, we must not get to the point where legalized muskie spearing is allowed. We should not all think that the DNR will never allow it either, as ultimately they won't decide this but it will be a legislative situation and it could happen. Politicians have proven over and over, you can't count on them to do the right thing.
Lastly, there IS a major issue with pike management in MN in general, hammerhandle syndrome is affecting huge numbers of lakes. Pike do need a voice in MN and something needs to be done to more proactively manage them to bring many of these affected lakes back to some kind of normalcy. The constant complaints about lack of walleyes, perch, panfish in these lakes relate back to this problem all the time, the pike are simply eating the guts right out of the lakes. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8866
| While I see the concern, I can't imagine that the DNR would allow musky spearing considering the amount of time and money they've spent creating trophy musky fisheries and the revenue that brings in. I also have to wonder why anyone would spear the larger pike, and larger muskies for that matter. One meal of either should tell anyone with taste buds that the smaller pike make the best table fare. And I don't think anyone who has fished a lake that's overrun with small pike can deny that eating them would be good for the fishery. I see why many folks see this as a giant step backwards, but it's really only because they are afraid people will spear muskies every chance they get, which is not allowed now, and likely will not be allowed. Sure, a couple idiots will go out there and kill them intentionally, but we have people doing that already. I've found dead muskies on several occasions that were obviously killed on purpose. I've talked to folks who admitted to killing them for reasons stated above. My standard answer there is "yah, walleyes eat a LOT of muskies when the muskies first hatch. That's why I eat walleyes as often as I can! Keep 'em from eating my muskies!!"
I figure if one out of ten gets angry and then figures out that killing muskies to save the walleyes is as stupid as eating walleyes to save the muskies, I've done my job. As for the other 9?? f--- 'em. You can't fix stupid. Most of those guys don't know #*#* about #*#* and probably don't catch many fish anyway. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2389
Location: Chisholm, MN | This was discussed a little last winter. I can't remember when I first heard it, but I did talk with the MMPA about it at the MN expo too. So this is not a total surprise right now.
Addict, I can't understand someone wanting to spear a giant pike either but it happens constantly. my uncle speared a 41 and said he would never do it again. Then the next year he speared another 41 and they are both on the wall. He said he just couldn't resist. he's also not a very good fisherman, but has killed 3 big ones that I know of. What I'm saying is that it doesn't take a lot of skill.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 12/10/2013 7:55 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 158
| Can anyone explain how this bill was passed? I feel ignorant to the fact I had no clue something like this was on the table. How can anyone have a reasonable argument to defend the muskie side if one doesnt even know the agument needs to exist!
9900 other lakes to spear on and this happens while new stocking efforts take an act of god. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 313
Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | There are a surprising number of people on this board who seem to have been caught off guard by the news this post started off with. I'd like to say there are also people who knew this was coming. Muskie fisherman are often not connected very well with one another. I'd encourage any of you in MN who are interested to join your area Muskies Inc organization, get their newsletters and attend some meetings. You'd have more than likely known this was happening if you did. Even if you're not a member, go to a few meetings in your area, they are open to the public. All MN Muskies Inc Chapters are also members/have at least a representative that attends the MMPA meetings. These changes have been in the works for some time, and are not new news, they were going to happen regardless of any action of the MMPA or other groups. It is my understanding that rather than fight a battle (like over the opening of Cass Lake to spearing) that is doomed to losing, it was better to live and fight on another day. To the best of my knowledge, the DNR was fully in support of removing these spearing bans. If you want to have a voice then please do something to stand up and be counted. The MN DNR and the states politicians don't frequent the muskie forum boards. Join a club, get involved somehow. Contact your legislators and let them know how you feel about decisions like this. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Here's something more important:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=91... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | BFD - 12/10/2013 4:05 PM
Moltisanti,
I think you may have misinterpreted my post. We are not trying to create a trophy pike fishery, but simply a healthy fishery in general. The lakes around central MN have the potential to be great fisheries but so many are just overrun with stunted hammer handle pike. Slots don't work on every single lake nor should they be put on every lake. You can still harvest fish on slot limit lakes also no one is being denied that right.
Stunted pike have negative impacts on walleye stocking, perch populations, and they simply are a pain the azz! Spearers don't want hammer handle pike, they want the bigger fish. We have a MDAA member in our MI chapter that swears up and down he doesn't stick the big fish and gives them a pass. The next meeting he will show you the 16lber and 12 lber him and the son got last weekend. In central and northern mn we have a lot of seasonal workers that are unemployed in the winter, myself included. Lots of these folks don't have time to fish open water but have all the time in the world to fish in the winter and put in some serious hours. It doesn't take long to knock down the population of big fish and we are seeing this very clearly on many of our waters.
I hear ya, BFD. I'm not trying to say that it doesn't matter. I fish Miltona and WB a bit and those are some fantastic bodies of water. You hate to have a good thing get screwed up, and spearing the big pike and turning the lake into a snake pit is a bad deal for everyone.
My only point was that there is a way to handle business and some of the guys in the MMPA and in general are sorely in need of a little salesmanship and PR ability. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 68
| I also think that muskie guys are in need of some PR ability sometimes as well. Too often we act like we are the only people to fish the lake. While I agree that spearing is not a positive for muskies, I think a better approach would be to look to educate people who are spearing. A statement like "hey, we really respect what you do and it seems like a good time, but please just be careful of the muskie as there have been great efforts to get them stocked" -- works much better than accusing every person who spears of killing muskies intentionally and putting a whole group of people on the defensive when most people who are spearing are probably doing it very ethically. Lets be honest, not every muskie fisherman does things ethically either (i.e. "northern" fishing in the middle of may in closed zones) and I'm sure there plenty of people who target muskies or keep them during regulare ice fishing. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | jamesb - 12/11/2013 1:33 PM
I also think that muskie guys are in need of some PR ability sometimes as well. Too often we act like we are the only people to fish the lake. While I agree that spearing is not a positive for muskies, I think a better approach would be to look to educate people who are spearing. A statement like "hey, we really respect what you do and it seems like a good time, but please just be careful of the muskie as there have been great efforts to get them stocked" -- works much better than accusing every person who spears of killing muskies intentionally and putting a whole group of people on the defensive when most people who are spearing are probably doing it very ethically. Lets be honest, not every muskie fisherman does things ethically either (i.e. "northern" fishing in the middle of may in closed zones) and I'm sure there plenty of people who target muskies or keep them during regulare ice fishing.
Bingo. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 158
| So I dont get it. People knew this was going to happen and I dont see one post on here calling peoples attention to it. When the ban was lifted on Cass the fight that went into it the first time (before it was backdoored) was what should have been happening for the last 9 months if there was talk of this at the expo. I see nothing on HSO either.
As much as I hate to see FB being the only way to get the word out I see
nothing on my local chapters page or the twin cities page either.
Why is it so quiet about this huge issue!!
Im was on the volunteer fire dept until recently and our meetings were always the night of my muskies inc chapter meetings so I havent been able to attend. Something had to give in my schedule so I had to quit the dept and now will be attending the chapter meetings and want to get heavily involved in stopping this backdoor BS. If we dont put up one helluva fight now and their ultimate goal is the legalization of spearing muskies (by backdooring it!!!) my kids wont have a reason to ever muskie fish. The fire has been lit.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2389
Location: Chisholm, MN | The reason is that when we heard about it, it already happened and it was too late. This was a while ago, but people are just hearing about it now because there is ice on the lakes and spearing is open. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 158
| I see it now in Feb, love it how there is zero public input. SOB Im behind the curve, time to change that. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Pointerpride102 - 12/11/2013 6:56 PM
jamesb - 12/11/2013 1:33 PM
I also think that muskie guys are in need of some PR ability sometimes as well. Too often we act like we are the only people to fish the lake. While I agree that spearing is not a positive for muskies, I think a better approach would be to look to educate people who are spearing. A statement like "hey, we really respect what you do and it seems like a good time, but please just be careful of the muskie as there have been great efforts to get them stocked" -- works much better than accusing every person who spears of killing muskies intentionally and putting a whole group of people on the defensive when most people who are spearing are probably doing it very ethically. Lets be honest, not every muskie fisherman does things ethically either (i.e. "northern" fishing in the middle of may in closed zones) and I'm sure there plenty of people who target muskies or keep them during regulare ice fishing.
Bingo.
No question you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. But let's be realistic. As someone stated earlier, the DNR and the MDAA are not waiting breathlessly to see what the next poster will say on this forum. The rantings and ravings of a few on here that some take as bashing and bullying and unmindful of anyone else's position or viewpoint, is really not very representative of the majority of the work and dealings that people like Shawn Kellet and John Underwood put forth in lobbying for us and negotiating with, the people that will ultimately make these decisions. And remember, muskie fishing, while seemingly extremely popular and too crowded at times, is a small cottage industry really. That's why you guys can't get all your favorite reels in left hand, or that no company makes the perfect reel in your opinion - there just aren't enough of us. The point being we don't have a highly paid professional lobby working for us.
So I'm not going to bash those that work so hard on our behalf to propagate and protect our sport, which helps the owner of this site even have such a site where we can all mouth off on such subjects. Sure there's a few among us who are greedy or selfish or rude, what group of people doesn't have these? But I want to be able for my kids and their kids to be fishing for these fish for a long time to come. When we know it's a fact that the desire of some others is to harpoon them when they can, yea I say that's worth defending. It doesn't help when they have a legislator in their back pocket that allows them to go around what we would consider normal due process. While I agree that we could use a tuneup in how we deal with the general, non-musky fishing public, some that we are dealing with operate at a whole different level, and it will take some different tactics to preserve our sport. Nice will only get you so far. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 28
| Has anyone seen any spear houses out on Sugar yet? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Nice' has nothing to do with is. Fight hard, ruthlessly, and with very direct, absolutely accurate and proven fact; deal with reality, be level, and direct, and don't call names or mindlessly argue. The second you do, you lose.
Caution, bad language by a very funny Ron White:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkXsrz_Qrl8 |
|
| |
|
| This thread is disappointing! One day we, as sportsman, will regret the infighting! Anyone who spears any fish with the intent to waste them is not a sportsman! Anyone who kills for the sake of killing has major issues! These are outliers. The exceptions. I refuse to apply blanket statements to my sporting brothers because of the "bad apples". I proudly support the spearers right to spear! I support the right of an angler to harvest a legal catch(including muskies). I fear for the future of these rights! Look at the situation in the Florida Everglades NP and Boca Grande Pass. Anti-sporting groups have used infighting amongst sportsman to make major progress in limiting access entirely! We have a unique system in this country that allows us proper channels to create change. Sure, it's not perfect, it's run by people. But, for the most part, we have managed to do pretty well for ourselves and for our wildlife. Muskie populations are bigger than ever. Deer populations are good. Walleye populations are strong. Not one single species targeted by sportsman in MN(or anywhere else) is in danger of extinction. I'm glad folks are fighting for good management of their favorite specie but not at the cost of someone else's tradition or rights. |
|
| |
MN