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Posts: 358
| I have a question, I'm planning a LSC. fishing trip and going to hire a Guide is it common, normal or even appropriate for a hired Guide to fish out of the same boat with clients ? Of course the portion of the trip I am refering to is casting.
Thanks !! Cody |
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| do what ever you want. you can say "i'd prefer you not to fish"..or have them fish out of the back of the boat. if it's just you and guide, you might want him to fish until ya'll get a strike or two to quicken the pattern find. |
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Posts: 1438
| Yes. Been with several guides over the years and every one of them has fished.
He should know the waters and the structure and should know how to work them (techniques/angles/retrieves/baits etc). Sometimes it's the smallest things that will pull a fish off their haunt. You might be doing something "different" than what it needed and the only way for him to know that is to do it himself. Besides, most of the times I can think of the guide will be doing something different to make sure the pattern hasn't changed.
Perfectly acceptable in my book. |
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| Guides shoul fish so you can watch and learn. |
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| I guess it depends on if you want a fishing guide or a tour guide. BR |
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Posts: 637
Location: S.W. WI | He will be fishing behind you, after you have fished that spot, Or fishing a totally different depth- likely using a different lure or method trying to see what they want that day.
In my opinion he BETTER fish!
Edited by Rudedog 11/17/2013 9:53 AM
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Posts: 55
| I have no problem with the guide fishing, but if he gets a fish don't hand me the rod, that's not my fish! |
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Posts: 358
| Thanks all for the input. I have a better understanding now, Thanks  |
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Posts: 2097
| I would be up front with your guide about what you want to get out of the experience. |
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Location: Waukesha, WI, USA | If there were two guys in the boat, I'd put on the hard hat and watch for flying lures and follows. Makes for a long day. If one person took a break I would pick up rod but would always ask if the clients minded.
Bottom line, communicate with the guide, open communication is the best policy. You won't hurt his feelings. Your day, your buck |
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Posts: 20263
Location: oswego, il | I always have the guide fish in another boat. I take a megaphone so they can shout instruction and the new remote trolling motor control makes it a snap for them to control it.
just ask the guide it they will be fishing or not and hire one that fits your preference. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I have never hired a guide but have fished with friends who guide or have guided. There are some guides who I would consider hiring to watch fish. Not particularly on there home lake but to watch how they approach unknown water possibly water I know well. I might learn something through different eyes. |
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Posts: 559
| ToddM - 11/17/2013 3:13 PM
I always have the guide fish in another boat. I take a megaphone so they can shout instruction and the new remote trolling motor control makes it a snap for them to control it.
just ask the guide it they will be fishing or not and hire one that fits your preference.
No double 10s and no bulldawgs just a1/4 oz jig fish away |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I'm sure the guide would probably do what you ask him to, but I'd most certainly PREFER to have them fish. I'd want them in the back of the boat, but I'd be trying to learn how they approach fishing, working lures, as well as have them experimenting to find the pattern that day.
I'd feel a little cheated if they didn't fish. |
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| krazyk - 11/20/2013 2:29 PM
Pay the guide, stay home where it's nice and warm and let him e-mail you the pictures of the fish he catches...If you need to watch him fish to learn what he is doing then maybe the couch is the best place for you...
I am guessing you stayed at home on the couch during school... |
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Posts: 483
Location: NE PA | Does anyone's feelings on the matter change when there are 2 clients and a guide? The back deck of the boat being more comfortable to fish out of, but also getting 3rd shot at the water ahead if i'm making sense. |
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | lennyg3 - 11/20/2013 11:38 PM
Does anyone's feelings on the matter change when there are 2 clients and a guide? The back deck of the boat being more comfortable to fish out of, but also getting 3rd shot at the water ahead if i'm making sense.
Nope. Two people in the front, guide in the back has worked fine for me in the past. It's a 3rd bait in the water trying to figure out warts going on that day.
Edited by dami0101 11/21/2013 4:48 AM
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Posts: 182
| Why wouldn't you want the guide to fish? Two clients and one guide should be plenty of room. Guide sets up shop for himself in the front of the boat may be cause for discussion. I've heard this question a few times. Several times I've fished with a guide, the fact he was fishing got us onto a pattern fairly quickly. |
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Posts: 483
Location: NE PA | Corso Mike - 11/23/2013 4:45 PM
Why wouldn't you want the guide to fish? Two clients and one guide should be plenty of room. Guide sets up shop for himself in the front of the boat may be cause for discussion. I've heard this question a few times. Several times I've fished with a guide, the fact he was fishing got us onto a pattern fairly quickly.
I guess my situation was a bit different. I have only been with a guide once, and he had a bow mount with a handle rather than a foot control. Him fishing in the boat would have required to either have myself or my father in the back of the boat with him fishing ahead of either of us. I guess with a wireless foot control things change a bit as 2 people could comfortably fish out of the front. |
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| you pay,you are the boss |
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Posts: 299
| It all depends on the situation, population of fish, patterns, water, etc.. This time of year where I fish (LSC system) there is absolutely no reason a guide needs to fish with two clients unless one of the clients wants the guide to hand over rod. A good guide is busy and on the water daily and should know the pattern inside and out. Sure it can change from day to day but it surely doesn't take long to figure out. If the clients are less experienced anglers then maybe it makes sense for the guide to fish and show a client techniques but generally speaking any angler fishing this time of year is a serious fisherman chasing a trophy and can be told how to fish or what to throw rather than guide "showing" the client by fishing. There's also different types of trips and guides in the different regions or time of year. Some are big game hunter type guides, outfitters, educational, learning the lake, learning how to fish, etc...it all depends on what the client wants out of the trip but if a client is a seasoned angler chasing a dream or trophy fish then the guide should focus more on putting the client on fish rather than fishing himself. As long as you discuss what you want with your guide then it shouldn't be a problem. I've had guides that fished and didn't mind at all and I've had guides that never even attempted to fish. It's all in what your want on the water. |
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Posts: 8844
| If it's just me in the boat with the guide? Fish. Two lures in the water are better than one. With two or even three in the boat, as long as the guide is fishing from the back, they're likely fishing water you already covered.
We've only had one instance in 9 years where a guide pulled a fish out of a spot that we weren't quite done with:
I was up front, Smanntha in the middle, guide in the back... Coming up to a nice little cut in the rocks, in an area with about a 3' rock shelf that immediately drops into 30 FOW. "There's GOT to be a fish in there!" I thought. (Samantha obviously saw it too, because when I casted at it she called me a name I can't repeat here) Well, my cast fell short by about 5 feet. "Aw, S#$T! Hit that. I suck!" I said. Her cast went wide left. "ahh, you f-ed it up too!!" We were still close enough where one of us could have casted back behind the boat. We both hesitated long enough waiting for the other to take a cast, when our guide finally figured we both blew it, and threw the perfect cast we had both failed to make. Sure enough, a pretty substantial fish came roaring out of there after his lure. He didn't catch the fish. Who knows if either of us would have. But in 9 years, that's been the only time I ever felt like we had lost a shot at a fish because the guide was fishing too. Some would say it was fair game, since we both flat out missed. In that case, if I was guiding, I'd have turned the boat around and made another pass, because it was obvious that both anglers were trying for the spot-on-the-spot. As others have said, it's all about communication. We should have just said "hey, turn us around and lets take another pass at that." And that's something we do often. If there's an island or a spot or an area we want to fish, or fish again? We just tell them. Never had a guide refuse, and we've gotten some good fish that way. |
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Posts: 182
| lennyg3 - 11/23/2013 4:08 PM
Corso Mike - 11/23/2013 4:45 PM
Why wouldn't you want the guide to fish? Two clients and one guide should be plenty of room. Guide sets up shop for himself in the front of the boat may be cause for discussion. I've heard this question a few times. Several times I've fished with a guide, the fact he was fishing got us onto a pattern fairly quickly.
I guess my situation was a bit different. I have only been with a guide once, and he had a bow mount with a handle rather than a foot control. Him fishing in the boat would have required to either have myself or my father in the back of the boat with him fishing ahead of either of us. I guess with a wireless foot control things change a bit as 2 people could comfortably fish out of the front.
Guide in the front of the boat is a deal breaker for me. Shows lack of professionalism. Now I understand your point.
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Posts: 325
Location: Otsego, MN | I have only been with one guide (Jeff Hanson) but having him fishing along with myself and one other guy potentially saved the day... The bit had changed from the previous day(s) from a small bucktail/small jerk bait bite to a large twitch. Without him fishing a different action something out of the ordinary and norm we could have missed out on some action for sure. As soon as he had some action and aggressive fish following he gave one of us the lure he was using and then focused on whether it was the color, size, or the other 30 variables. Let the guide fish as they will only improve your day.... |
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Posts: 540
Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | When you book your guide days talk to him about it then NOT just before you step in the boat might set the tone for a tuff day you learn a lot by watching and asking questions .just sayin |
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Location: Minocqua, WI | The one question to ask yourself is if you have a hit at boatside and lose the fish because the guide has a line out and can't net it right away... Will you be upset? Other than that, just tell them if you want them to fish or not and I am sure they will cater to your request.Best of luck! |
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Posts: 358
| All great suggestions and advice from all. Thank you all ! I have learned a lot from your posts Thanks ! |
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Posts: 65
Location: Garrison, Mn | I guess I'd prefer the guide to ask me if it was ok if he fished. I've been fishing with a guide twice, to learn new spots and have him answer a few questions I had about fishing musky. He fished on the second outing, but asked if it would be ok for him to make a few casts. I guess my intention of going with a guide wasn't to catch a fish but to get a little more information. I know of s story where a guy went fishing and the guide caught a fish on the figure 8 boat side. Guide was like...net my fish, get me my pliers, take a photo, now take one this way. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be tipping any guide who would have me stop fishing to take a photo of his fish. If I was the guide and I cared about my clients getting the most bang for their buck, I'd pull the lure away from the fish. You saw what it was and what it liked.....purpose of hooking it? Just my thoughs |
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Posts: 243
| If your guide is fishing, I don't think you can be upset if they catch a fish. Or be upset if they want you to take a picture and help release it---that's what you do when you catch one. Chances are you missed that fish with your cast from the front of the boat and even if it hits on a figure 8, there are no guarantees it would come back and hit your bait if he pulled it away. Musky fishing is a team sport when more than one guy casts. If the goal is for you to be the only one who catches a fish on a trip, then make sure to tell your guide not to fish. |
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Posts: 65
Location: Garrison, Mn | I hear what you are saying, there's no correct answer. I'm just saying if I spend $400-$450 on 6 hours of fishing with a guide that's a lot different than you and me fishing out of my boat (for free). |
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Posts: 358
| All good information and thoughts, appreciate the response back, I learned alot here Thanks ! |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I guide from the back of my Ranger 620 and always make sure my clients are working the baits and areas perfectly before I even pick up a rod. Most clients ask me to fish. I will never pick up a rod before they are set casting and boat side finishing correctly. Their is more to guiding then just boat control and casting.
Guides fishing behind clients can teach while they cast and finish the cast correctly. Every guide is different. Guides want clients to leave feeling they learned a lot and caught some fish.
Most clients hire guides to catch fish. Some hire guides to learn how to catch more and bigger fish. Some hire a guide to learn the lake and its best areas.
When you hire a guide make sure you ask a lot of questions and most likely he/she will make your guide trip one you will love.
Its partiality up to the guide to find out what the client wants out of their trip. I ask lots of questions when I set up a new client. That way I can be sure to make my time with them the best it can be.
Guides are teachers. We want you to learn and leave wanting to come back again. 95% Return rate is something I am very proud of. Always more to learn because of the different pattern throughout the seasons. Casting, trolling, live bait, etc.
Best to discuss your trip and goals with your guide before you book the trip. Listen to his/her advise.
If your guide has to control the boat from the front of the boat maybe its best if they don't fish. How can they watch everything going on behind them if they are concentrating on catching fish?
Im sorry if this offends guide who fish from the front. That's just because have controlled my boat from the back for 15 years now. No more front controls for me. Just too hard to keep my eyes on everything going on from the front.
From the back deck I watch everything going on at all times. Just the best place for a guide. Besides if the guide can catch a fish after 2 or 3 clients casted an area its something you should be happy about and trust what they are teaching you. Listen to your guide and believe what they tell you. |
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Posts: 358
| Thanks Mike, great input ! |
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Posts: 1283
| I would want the guide to fish so I can see what hes doing. I would never expect them to fish in the front of the boat though. |
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Guides Fishing