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| How many of you guys think the first bait through makes a big difference in catching the fish? I can see it have an impact when fishing shield water and the fish are on visible structure that you are casting to....but what about blind casting a weedbed, or night fishing?
Do you always want to be the guy in the front of the boat??? |
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Posts: 8782
| I think more often than not the first bait through is going to pick off the active, aggressive fish. But then I've seen days where the second or even the third bait through seems to be the one getting all the action. I've also seen cases where the first bait through gets a small fish and the second or third bait through winds up with a jumbo. I think it balances out over time.
Would I rather be the first bait through?
I don't care where I am as long as the front guy(s) leave me some water to cast at.
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I think it makes a huge difference! I hate the back of the boat! |
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Posts: 95
| I LOVE the back of the boat!!!!!  Ask my boys ... they've seen me catch lots of nice fish out of the back of the boat!!! |
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Location: Smith Creek | Kirby Budrow - 9/10/2013 3:46 PM
I think it makes a huge difference! I hate the back of the boat!
Agreed (except for the hating part). The reason we remember well the times that the 2nd or 3rd bait through caught the fish is because it's uncommon. If anglers are of equal skill my experience is first guy outfishes 2nd 3-1.
I still enjoy fishing dirty water, though. Designated beer swiller/netman/photographer. |
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| The back of the boat is as good as any position in the boat. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. It is the approach of the person fishing that is the game changer. Drink beer and sing songs and you will get a headache and sore throat. Pay attention and take advantage of everything the front guy missed and you will be in be in command. Not all fish are on the weed edge, top of the rock hump or are willing to bite the first bait. The person in the back has the "throw back bait" for unseen follows. He knows where the fish dont bite and what they arent biting on. He is the final adjustment and fine tuner of the pattern or lack of pattern.
Stand in the back and wish you were in the front and you probably wont do to good.
Put your head into it and think a little bit and you can be the star of the show.
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I don't mind the back of the boat but if two guys are trolling I make sure I'm running the shortest line |
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Location: oswego, il | It depends, how good is the guy in the front of the boat? How fast is that person moving the boat? What is that person throwing? If they are picking apart spots with a twitch bait, I would not want to be in the back. Fishing fast with a bucktail, give me the back with an erratic/pause type bait. If fish are following and not eating the first bait, give me the back. It just depends on the situation.
Edited by ToddM 9/10/2013 6:26 PM
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| ToddM - 9/10/2013 6:25 PM
It depends, how good is the guy in the front of the boat? How fast is that person moving the boat? What is that person throwing? If they are picking apart spots with a twitch bait, I would not want to be in the back. Fishing fast with a bucktail, give me the back with an erratic/pause type bait. If fish are following and not eating the first bait, give me the back. It just depends on the situation.
+1
My thoughts exactly.
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Posts: 69
| I catch probably 90% of my fish from the back of the boat and routinely out fish good anglers in front of me. Make sure you work together not against one another. |
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Posts: 140
Location: Northern Illinois | I'm almost always fishing out of the back of the boat. Doesn't seem to matter to me.
My son & I are pretty even w/numbers of fish this year. In my opinion it's a numbers
game. I do pay attention to where his casts are landing & I'll fill in the other spots.
Often times I'll throw to the deeper side of the boat for more casting room & occasionally a fish will make an appearance. Keep your head in the game and throw
till it hurts. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | northernmn - 9/10/2013 9:11 PM
I catch probably 90% of my fish from the back of the boat and routinely out fish good anglers in front of me. Make sure you work together not against one another.
Thats issue. You need someone front who will leave you some space. I used to run from the back and got outfished constantly. When I tried to tell people to leave me some space, I either got an evil we or they just couldn't figure out I i meant. Of course when you fish from the back, you can try other baits and fish differently. I i think it's tough to beat a guy throwing a cowgirl who knows how to use it. Just my opinion. I i run from the front now and catch a lot more fish. I wish I had a trolling motor with a pedal that reached to the back though, because there are times where I want my partner to be in front and have the first shot. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | When you're talking about fishing opposite sides of the boat that's a different discussion. If you're talking about the first lure past a muskie's nose... 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 times it will hit the first, especially if the water's warm.
How many muskies are caught because they're feeding vs. because they're mad? |
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Location: Minnesota | I usually start with a Bucktail in front, followed by either a glider or twitchbait like a grandma. The front seems to catch the most, but it could be, like said above, that we're catching the most active fish. |
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| 4amuskie - 9/10/2013 4:14 PM
Pay attention and take advantage of everything the front guy missed and you will be in be in command. Not all fish are on the weed edge, top of the rock hump or are willing to bite the first bait. The person in the back has the "throw back bait" for unseen follows. He knows where the fish dont bite and what they arent biting on. He is the final adjustment and fine tuner of the pattern or lack of pattern.
Good points. When I'm in the back I'm usually not thinking of it that way, but I should be.
When I think back on fish that I caught from the back of the boat, almost ALL of them resulted from doing something very different from the front guy. Getting my bait way shallower on the structure, or casting out the opposite side of the boat, or throwing something totally different than the front guy.
I usually do make it a point, when in back, to use a different bait and try to hit the spots that the front guy missed, but usually only until the front guy catches one or has a few follows. Then I usually mimic his presentation. Hmm... |
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| Think about this. The person in control of the boat has an advantage because he knows whats going on all the time or should. He constantly assesses boat position relative to structure. He watches depth, weeds, speed, rocks. Watches sonar and gps. He has a better idea where to cast because he knows the structure. The guy in back should know this too. If he doesnt and is just casting he is making a big mistake. If you in the back you should know the same as the guy running the boat. Pay attention. Once you know and have the information then you have the advantage. You dont have to worry about all of the above or about getting the boat in the wrong position or crashing rocks. Think about this and you will cstch more. JMHO. I have fish with lots that are there for a ride. Dont be one of them. |
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Location: Minnesota. | Honestly, as much as I like to "be there first" I don't think it means diddly! I've caught my share of fish from the back when the front guy has tossed a couple casts. And I've had the same done to me when I'm on the trolling motor!
Couple summers back on the V I followed two boats over a weedy drop in one bay. My heart sort of sank when I stopped and dropped in the trolling motor. Watched the first boat pull out as the second worked through. My first cast had one blow up boatside and the second cast 90 deg away from the first lob took a 43 incher on top!
Who knows? But I still have trouble not wanting to "get there first"! Slow learner...!!
Jeremy.
Edited by Jeremy 9/11/2013 3:19 PM
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | A lot of times the first bait through,... Just "wakes" the fish up,.... Personally I think it's a toss up..... in the muskie fishing that I've been doing.
Just as many caught in the back as in the front.
Jerome |
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| Second bait through...
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Location: deephaven mn | for the folks that say the back is ok as long as I am left some water to fish. I think this is in reference to boat control issues and being squeezed out on sharp inside turns and points. to combat this you need to wait for your cast lane to develop. it may not come at 90 degrees from the boat all the time but you may have more casts out of the back that are better than the ones the front guy made because of better angles and baits being in the strike zone longer just look for opportunities
Edited by kap 9/11/2013 7:13 PM
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Location: Chisholm, MN | ...
Edited by Kirby Budrow 9/11/2013 8:00 PM
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| Kirby Budrow - 9/11/2013 7:51 PM
esoxaddict - 9/11/2013 6:52 PM
Second bait through...
First bait through : )
THIRD bait through....
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Location: Chisholm, MN | First bait through 
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Location: Chisholm, MN | K, I see your point HA! Muskies can be caught from any boat position....BIG ONES! |
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Location: Smith Creek | 2 examples? Out of how many total?
How many of you would be cool with your guide fishing first bait through? |
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| I would be fine with a guide fishing first bait through, so long as he has good boat control and allowed me to work the water as well. I don' think first lure through matters all that much. BR |
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Location: sneaking out to get on the water ;-) | I've caught about as many from the back as I have the front. Even done quite well being 3rd bait through. |
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Posts: 580
| I think first bait through is a huge advantage at times, and not so much at other times. It depends on many factors.
One example, when we are up on shield water for a week in mid-summer, we're often casting to isolated, visible targets. We switch off between who's in front vs. back...over the years, we've seen a distinct advantage to being the first bait through.
We approach it by having the first bait through as nearly always being a search bait. 95% of the time, this would be blades of some variety, usually 10's. An active fish on LOTW, for instance, will almost always show on blades...and throwing a search bait in the front makes sense because it's a faster moving bait, allowing the front angler to make more casts to likely targets. Blades are also best in the 8, so with any active fish that's following, we give ourselves the best odds to catch it. Meanwhile, the back angler uses something stop/go or otherwise more finesse, to try and trigger semi-active or neutral fish which weren't willing to chase down a blade.
When the fish are "going", the front angler has the great majority of the action. But there have been many occasions that the back position has outfished the front position...usually, these are tougher days overall, but not always.
The point is that the first bait through has a built-in advantage of being the initial offering to potentially active fish. Whether that advantage is properly exploited by the front angler...well, quite frankly, that's dependent upon the skills of that angler. |
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Location: Smith Creek | "As for fishing in the front of the boat? Never seen a guide do that, either. Bad move dude. That's what you call subsidizing someone elses fishing. Guides fishing? When it's just me, I welcome it. Two baits in the water = figuring out a pattern twice as fast. 3 in the boat? Well... Go ahead and fish if you want to. We're not leaving you anything to cast at, though, so don't expect much action."
EA |
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| Guides are a great way to learn presentation and techniques that you are not aware of. Finding structure and fish are easy if you can read a map. Learning new ways to attack that structure is priceless. Is harded to see how the guide fishes if he is behind you. BR |
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Location: Black Creek, WI | There are pros and cons to both. Some valid points have been made for the advantage of the front deck and first bait through (especially for aggressive fish). However, I absolutely LOVE fishing from the back deck. What a joy to shed the responsibility (and distraction) of perfect boat control. There is nothing better than just getting in the zone between you and your lure/environment while your partner does all the "work" of boat control. Even if the boat control by your partner is sloppy.... as stated above... just take advantage of the new/different vantage points it creates. Be patient and wait for the best angle to develop. Threre is no right answer here. Just work together with your partner and take advantage of the benefits each casting platform provides. Jeolousy and envy will get you nowhere fast and hinder your "team's" performance. |
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| jlong - 9/12/2013 9:50 AM
There are pros and cons to both. Some valid points have been made for the advantage of the front deck and first bait through (especially for aggressive fish). However, I absolutely LOVE fishing from the back deck. What a joy to shed the responsibility (and distraction) of perfect boat control. There is nothing better than just getting in the zone between you and your lure/environment while your partner does all the "work" of boat control. Even if the boat control by your partner is sloppy.... as stated above... just take advantage of the new/different vantage points it creates. Be patient and wait for the best angle to develop. Threre is no right answer here. Just work together with your partner and take advantage of the benefits each casting platform provides. Jeolousy and envy will get you nowhere fast and hinder your "team's" performance.
Agree, really enjoy not having to run the trolling motor and being able to concentrate on the fish:) |
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| Flambeauski - 9/12/2013 9:25 AM
"As for fishing in the front of the boat? Never seen a guide do that, either. Bad move dude. That's what you call subsidizing someone elses fishing. Guides fishing? When it's just me, I welcome it. Two baits in the water = figuring out a pattern twice as fast. 3 in the boat? Well... Go ahead and fish if you want to. We're not leaving you anything to cast at, though, so don't expect much action."
EA
And the point of digging this up and reposting it on my behalf is... ???
Like I said - doesn't matter where you are in the boat as long as whoever is up front leaves you something to cast at. When it's a guide? Hit anything we leave, by all means. But we're paying you $400/day + tip and probably lunch. Take the front of the boat, and there goes your lunch AND your tip. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | My point is that even someone who has seen large fish caught by the 2nd or third cast through would prefer to have the first cast on a spot.
Most guides fish out the back (if at all) for this reason. If fishing was as good or better for the 2nd through no one would ever get cut off by another boat. We'd be following boats instead of picking another spot on the lake to fish. |
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| Flambeauski - 9/12/2013 11:06 AM
My point is that even someone who has seen large fish caught by the 2nd or third cast through would prefer to have the first cast on a spot.
Most guides fish out the back (if at all) for this reason. If fishing was as good or better for the 2nd through no one would ever get cut off by another boat. We'd be following boats instead of picking another spot on the lake to fish.
Is it more common for a guides boat to be cut off or followed? |
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Posts: 8782
| Flambeauski - 9/12/2013 11:06 AM
My point is that even someone who has seen large fish caught by the 2nd or third cast through would prefer to have the first cast on a spot.
Most guides fish out the back (if at all) for this reason. If fishing was as good or better for the 2nd through no one would ever get cut off by another boat. We'd be following boats instead of picking another spot on the lake to fish.
I don't know about that. A big part of a guide's job is to help their clients become better anglers. The only way to do that is by watching what their clients are doing and how - how they cast, where they cast, how they work their lures, how they execute figure 8's, etc. You can't do that when your clients are behind you.
As for the nonsense about cutting off other boats? Heh. I'd bet there are more fish caught fishing behind another boat than there are trying to jump in front of one.
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| Whoever is not working the trolling motor in high winds has the advantage. In calm conditions, front of the boat absolutely has the advantage! This past year to Eagle Lake, we had high winds and the back of the boat won 7 to 6 for the week.
Also, the back of the boat has the best advantage of a 'cast back' for a seen or unseen fish. This technique works well with lazier fish, fish that miss on the eight and for follows never seen due to water clarity. Throwing back over the boats path has yielded a handful of fish each or our week long trips for the past five years since we perfected the art of the 'cast back'. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | First boat through is more important than first bait, imo.
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Location: oswego, il | I do prefer running the boat. I am a stickler and constantly adjusting. There is also a huge difference in how you position the boat between 1,2 and 3 people in it. Some people let the boat get completely out of position before making correction or run the boat way too fast for the baits being used. Others have cable drive tolling motors which drive me absolutely batty. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I try not to use the TM, ever. I love wind drifting. Something about the challenge of finding the right angles for fishing structure, points and beds. With both yours and your partner's backs to the winds fanning out casts is fairly easy. |
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| Back outfishes me 10 to 1 |
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Posts: 298
| I think the first bait through wins hands down when the fish are aggressive. They will certainly have the most opportunities even if fish aren't landed. What I have noticed through the years is that in the mid to late fall it really to pick up in the back of the boat the colder the water gets especially the AM bite, and when I fish 3 guys. This occurs even when working slowly through a prime area. 3rd guy through has do e really well. |
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