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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | For those who have evolved from catching as many muskies as possible (of any size) and now focus on catching the "biggest fish in the lake"..... How has your game changed?
What opportunities do you look for to put things in your favor of consistently contacting GIANTS?
Do you target different locations? Has your lure selection changed? Are there certain seasonal opportunities that put things in your favor?
And of course.... WHY? |
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Posts: 150
Location: Appleton, WI | I think the biggest difference in fishing for the "biggest fish in the lake" is in the lake choices that you make. I stopped going to known numbers lakes unless I am taking out someone new into the sport. I only try to go to the lakes that hold those big adult fish. I also think that the angler starts to dissect the lake more and not just cast to cast. I usually try to locate every cast I through to put it over structure that can hold a very big fish. . |
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Location: Contrarian Island | along the lines of the above post, I think you end up fishing less water, and fishing more known big fish spots or spots you think are big fish spots...while I'm on big fish waters in MN I don't know that I'm only targeting 'just' the biggest fish in the lake, out there to catch 50s yes, but my mindset hasn't evolved to the point I'm strictly trying to catch the to .5% biggest fish in the lake... that to me seems counter productive. As really imo any spot that has or has had a 52"er on it, could have a 57"er on it..fish are fish. Are you under the assumption a 57"er acts differently than a 52"? I guess i'm not...
When fish are going esp big fish, then it comes time to simply run and gun to all the spots you have seen/caught/encountered or heard of a BIG fish being on... with the gameplan to find a big one on it...but I'm still trying to wrap my head around 'only' trying to target the absolute biggest fish in the lake....not sure a whole lot would change. fish big fish spots, at the right times, w lures that are known to work. I'll ask the question back to you Jason. is that your gameplan? and if so, what do you do differently...also, wouldn't you end up failing 99.99%of the time and feel defeated....as if there is a 58"er in the lake you are on you could fish it 10 years and never catch it..
Edited by BNelson 8/22/2013 1:56 PM
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | I think brad hit it pretty good. being from illinois and a weekend fisherman big fish are average in size here. I have caught small fish out deep ans nice fish shallow and visa versa. most lakes here have the same average sized fish for the most part. its more about hitting them when they are on and not wasting your time otherwise. I wish we hadbig fish opportunities down here like you guys have up north. lake choice and fishing it the right time are key for me. |
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Location: Not far enough north! | I am of course always trying to catch the biggest fish in the lake but after 20 years I still enjoy catching as many as possible. I will take the bait away from small fish( under 35") on the 8 because big baits really tear them up something fierce. I am unfortunate enough to live in an area where truly big fish are super rare, any thing in the 45-48 range is a great fish. I've fished many places and have had some dances with a few tankers.
I do believe that big fish are different from the smaller fish just the same way that an old buck is different than a young buck. However there are certain conditions when the older smarter animal will make mistakes and become catchable. I don't think mistake is the right word but you catch my drift...
A few things that I have experienced with bigger fish that stick out in my mind:
If you locate one she will most likely not be there the next day and if she is in a lazy mood you'll get to raise her a couple times before vanishing.
The big community spots that are highly pressured are good spots because they draw fish in consistently. The big fish use these spots too, however I have found that they are not on the obvious structure on that spot. Often times I find them "just around the corner" seems like just past where everyone pulls the trolling motor out of the water and move on.
These big girls are masters at throwing baits. I would rather have them hit out then in the eight. It seems in the eight they don't even try to swim they just sit there and shake their heads...
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Location: Contrarian Island | ok thought about this more, I don't think you meant the 'one' biggest fish but simply the biggest fish...ie, the top say 1 or 2 percenters in the lake, I believe I try to do that when I go to big fish waters and I believe my results are pretty good...with 4 at 54-54.5"s in the boat... not bad for a guy that on avg puts ~100 hours in MN... so what do I do...simply put fish the 'big fish icons' when fish are 'going'.. I don't think I approach much differently tho... fish proven baits on those spots and fish them multiple times per day/window....
I'd like to hear from more guys that put big fish in the boat.. not just 50s but those top tier fish in whatever lake they fish....
Edited by BNelson 8/22/2013 7:26 PM
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Location: Not far enough north! | BNelson - 8/22/2013 7:25 Pm ... fish proven baits on those spots and fish them multiple times per day/window....
I think you hit a good point with that statement. Fishing the spot multiple times.
My buddy and I were on LOTW a couple weeks ago for our annual trip ( which was fantastic this year with the cooler temps) We had a great week for numbers but not too many big fish were seen this year. The biggest fish in the net was a 51 caught on the third pass on a new spot at high noon just after the wind kicked up a little. Before the trip I had circled about 6 areas on the map that I wanted to explore this year if we had the chance. We were having a slow morning it was sunny and calm and headed to one of the new spots. It is a huge point complex with giant boulders and a big flat, right next to one of the deepest water in that area(classic community spot). It was dead calm when we got to it so it was perfect for mapping out the hazards. We picked through it the first time making waypoints with safe high riding baits. Didn't see anything. We fished it again more efficiently and the wind picked up as we were on it. Had a follow from a mid 30's . We thought something might be starting lets hit it again. Third pass different lures again and the 51 ate on the cast. We went back to that spot the next morning in prime weather and watched four boats fish it in an hour while we hit some other spots in the area... |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I used the term "biggest fish in the lake" because it obviously varies by lake choice and region. Also, you will never know if you truly caught the largest fish on that specific lake... so all I meant was when targeting larger fish do you do anything different? larger might mean the top 10% of the lake population by size distribution.... but for some lakes that might be a fish over 45 inches. On others it might be 55+.
Sure, I still fish just to catch a fish. Heck, with my two young boys in the boat I must admit... I don't have visions of 50 inchers jumping in the boat. I just want them to get a bite. But, when I'm on a serious musky hunt with friends who have equal passion for the sport as me.... the mindset is much much different.
Where is your mind at when targeting the Big One's. What do you do to put things in your favor of catching a TROPHY vs. just an average fish? |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Local legend who worked swing shift at the paper mill in town and has multiple mid to upper 50" Wisconsin fish to his credit (no BS, you can see the mounts at the meat store in Radison) had the same idea as BNelson and Rick. He fished 3-6 spots (on spots), spent a relatively short amount of time on the spots, and hit them at different times according to his schedule. Might be sunset, might be sunrise, might be midnight to 3 AM depending on his shift. Only used about 2 or 3 lures, creeper was one.
My limited experience with fish that are on the upper end of size spectrum for the water I'm fishing is that they were caught in the same spot (in late August early September) that I had hooked and lost them earlier in the summer on the same or similar baits. |
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Posts: 1529
| in the fall. go where the bait loads up. be there before the gorge and slower metabolism sets in.
we do that every year. when the shad show be ready.. big fish will show up in suprising shallow water if theres bait..
remember slo -mo presentations the later your fishing. im on st clair... canada |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I'd agree finding bait can be key..but not sure I totally agree w the slowing down all the time in late fall.. |
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Posts: 1168
| Seasonal progressions are fun. Opening day/weekend it's all about putting something in the net. I'll simply set up camp on locations that always hold fish and cast the crap out of them. Hasn't paid off in the big fish area but a fish in the net on opening day is pretty cool. Multiple fish is even cooler and this has been a trend with the camp and cast approach.
After opening weekend the shift is on to finding larger fish. Here I'll focus on areas where I can triangulate structure....traditional structure and structure that is a bit more abstract. It forces me to fish all depths instead of just chucking baits at the same old weededges, breaks, reefs, etc. You fish those too but you can waste a ton of time doing the same thing over and over with no results as opposed to increasing your odds by tapping into all sorts of different depths and letting the fish show you where they are. Since I've gone strictly to this approach the average size has jumped.
If I can identify a true slob then within those triangulated areas I tend to focus strictly on the runways between two or three pieces of structure. I've found that in many of these milk run triangles there will be some nifty stuff on the bottom of those runways. Sandgrass, bottom composition changes, current, etc. This tends to be in areas that appear to be nothing more than a 22-25ft deep flat but upon further review there's more going on down there than you might realize. I don't have a BST to back any of this up but I have a hunch that those larger fish I've encountered will slide up onto or into the traditional/abstract structure if they are truly hungry but are more than content to hang out a ways out in these other locations and will feed there if given the opportunity to do so. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Some of the systems I fish force a whole new approach. I actually search out the biggest fish in the lake in the skinniest water and slop on a couple lakes, and it works well. A 6" breakline from 2.5' to 3' can be the key with the weeds opening up JUST a tad. It's tough keeping the bigger fish pinned up in the slop, but sure is fun.
I thought many times even though the lakes are shallow, usually reservoirs or a chain of lakes on a river system with little or no current, that the big fish would be off the cover somewhere, but eliminated that carefully with the exception of very early and very late in the season. I used side imaging and an Aqua-Vu recently to look over one of these little gems, and found absolutely NO fish of any consequence deep. I originally came to the conclusion looking for the largest crappies and gills, and then looked at Muskies.
Working the slop is frustrating. It's also alot of work.
If there is an expanse of weeds/pads in these dark coffee colored water little backwoods lake gems, I look for transitions from one type of vegetation to another, and fish all the way around the transition, 360 degrees. Boat in 2 to 3', breaking down the cover a section at a time and presenting the lure from at least two different directions before moving on. Can spend 45 minutes on a spot two casting distances across. Once I find a good fish, I keep trying her until I am sure she has seen the bait a couple times, then move on and come back again later. One would think open pockets are the key, but no. Seems that the amount of clearance between the bottom and the canopy of veggies on top is more important. Wind can help the situation alot, or screw it up, depending on how it's hitting the slop.
This also has paid off for me on Sabaskong and especially on the Goon. No one else fishing that stuff, looks impossible at first glance. Anyone else hitting the skinny water? |
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Posts: 30
| I am fishing a couple lakes new to me that may have big fish in skinny water. I took note of the number of times i've heard about good fish from kids throwing worms to docks, and panfisherman fishing shallow sloppy bays.
I am wondering if these shallow fish were due to the cooler temps this summer...But Sworrall, you've found big fish shallow throughout the summer?
I'm gonna be limited in my time on the water the next few weeks, but I will probably be going up in the slop at turnover, and for sure much more next season. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Short answer is yes, all Summer. There isn't any real 'deep' water that's cooler in the system, so the fish seem to head for cover.
Keith and I have been working on a spinnerbait for that stuff, and I think he nailed it a couple weeks ago. The balance allows for one to sort of skip/slide the bait across the stuff without hooking up on it, and a longer main hook reach seems to offer better hookups.
Tried the big spoons and derivitives, giant single hooks and soft plastics, etc., spinnerbaits still get us the most action.
A lake like Pelican, however, offers completely different challenges. |
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Posts: 171
| Its hard to accept and very unfortunate, but the biggest fish are feeding the most when we put our rods away. 80-80+ degrees. |
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Posts: 1529
| targeting the BIG one can be a seasonal factor. here on the great lakes its a different animal. we rarely stay in an area full of juveniles 34-40 inchers. . sounds silly but with a large population big fish do and will act in different manners.
every lake can have a subtle pattern that will put you into big girls.
my favorite as said before is late fall. cold hands/fingers/patience ups your averages. you can wait 8 hours for a 15 minute bite.
but ya gotta be there. |
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | Bshep, it depends on the lake. If it has good oxygen at those temps then yes. Imho Illinois impoundments have low oxygen levels when the water is hot and water is not moving through the system. I don't think fish are feeding more at this time but are stressed and limit their movements. |
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Posts: 171
| Todd, unfortunately that is not the case in Illinois, which is mainly the lakes I was referring to. Lakes like Carlton will show you her largest fish when the water is over 80. You will catch the biggest fish in that lake on a regular, consistent basis during this time while lakes like McMaster (complete opposite) will offer you the same. This is based on the experience by those who fish those lakes the most. They found out by fishing the "borderline" water temperatures we THINK we should stop fishing... which we should and do.
Edited by bshep 8/27/2013 4:38 AM
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | My new goal is too target big fish when they are at their peak weights. Late fall and very early spring. I would rather catch a 50 inch fish in November then in June. June fish here tend to be beat up and thin from the spawn. March and April fish are thick and beautiful as are late fall fish. I think all Muskies are bigger during these periods. Mike |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | assuming the "where" is determined, doesn't it become more a question of "when"? |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | But doesn't the "when" determine the "where"?
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Yes to both. Where are those pre spawn fish staging and where do you look in cold late fall? It narrows down the choices. Mike |
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Posts: 171
| Weeds
Rip Rap
Deep Timber
Main Lake Points
Shallow areas near deep water.
10-15' "breakline"
Open Water
You will find fish in the same general areas in the fall as you would in the summer in most 'lakes.' If you can find deeper weeds during late fall, awesome. A main lake point near deep, open water can be great and deep timber always seems to hold fish. My favorite part about late fall is you can catch those same and sometimes 'off limits' FAT SHARKS we see full of eggs in the spring considering they begin to develop their eggs in the fall in most locations. |
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Posts: 8782
| jlong - 8/23/2013 8:10 AM
[...]
Where is your mind at when targeting the Big One's. What do you do to put things in your favor of catching a TROPHY vs. just an average fish?
There's all the obvious stuff - good lakes, good spots, peak times, right choice of lures for your conditions. I'd add trying to get out there a few hours ahead of a major weather event and fishing through it if you can.
Other than maybe skipping the spots where you've only ever seen and caught small fish, it's not all that different IMO. I think the biggest thing is mental. You have to be willing to be out there all day knowing you might only see one fish. That may be your shot for today, but it will probably be a good one. Being ready for that fish after 8 hours of nothing, and still having it together enough to be ready when it happens? Not for everyone. Or fishing late in the fall, for example. You might get one short feeding window all day. You have to be out there when it happens, and willing to accept that it might have happened before you got out this morning, or that it might happen an hour after you're off the water.
Edited by esoxaddict 8/30/2013 12:24 PM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I think Brad actually answered the question pretty well, if you look at it as an answer and not an argument with the concept. Fish the 'good' spots when you should, IF you know where the 'bigger' fish are. If not, you'll need to learn that, from studying the system, forage, cover, and classifications. On every system we fish, we have 'big fish spots'. trick is to know the why of it so you recognize it elsewhere.
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Posts: 171
| The best part is that its not like an illustration from a book... you never know where they are going to be  |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I really believe weather + sun + moon + the spot are the key. Everyone complains about post cold front. They've already eaten or not in the mood, fish slower or go fish for another species. There is a definite relationship to "the spot", 2-3 days post cold front you better be back on the spot at the right time's. When the big girl's are home, the smaller fish seem to be absent, I think for good reason! I've also moved up in lure sizes....
My HB 997SI has given me a new edge on understanding underwater structure, breaklines and especially deep water complex's, its changed how I fish, especially on new waters. I think late Sept - early October is key for big Canadian fish. Unfortunately most camps close on Oct 1st. Yeah, you're fishing in sleet & snow flurries - just like northernn WI in late October/November. Its big fish time.
But I also have contacted really big girls at other random times of the season when all 4 factors line up - finding "the spot" is key, as is understanding why its the spot....
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 9/3/2013 9:54 AM
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | What are you guys doing in the "off" season to increase your odds of contacting the "biggest fish in the lake". |
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Posts: 150
Location: Appleton, WI | In the off season I spend a lot of time studding topo maps of the waters I fish, going over my data books from the past years, make sure all my equipment is in great working order from the last season and what is not working right it gets replaced. I try to be a student of the sport. I have a map for the lakes that I fish and they have multiple sheets that I can put overtop of them with prior years data on them where fish are, time of season, moon phases, size, temp, barometer, and it is amazing on how you find patterns and you can locate a spot on the spot for a weed edge that looks the same for a mile but if i am going to get a fish it is out of a 100 yard stretch and the big girls live in a 15 yard stretch. I think the more time you can spend thinking about the fish during the season that’s one less thing you have to try and figure out on the water |
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Posts: 2015
| jlong - 2/7/2014 12:05 PM
What are you guys doing in the "off" season to increase your odds of contacting the "biggest fish in the lake"
Eat lots of food and drink beer , gives me 10-15 extra pounds.....energy reserve for those long summer days/nights on trophy water
Edited by IAJustin 2/7/2014 3:55 PM
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | jlong - 2/7/2014 12:05 PM
What are you guys doing in the "off" season to increase your odds of contacting the "biggest fish in the lake".
As I typically have very limited dedicated time of 7 days each year to chase the really big girls. research is extremely important.... It typically makes the trip!
If its a new lake, I'm using maps and satellite imaging to explore the lake. Way before I ever get on the lake, I already have my major spots identified. On average I'd say I put about +200hrs into research & analysis. I also study lunar movements so I know when we should be on big fish spots on a daily basis. I study local historical weather patterns for the tiime of year, etc. Once I'm on the water my HB SI really gives me an edge in finding hidden stucture complexes and open water fishing spots. Of course you have to be ready to react to the situation at hand, so I play what if scenario's in my mind during my winter research excersizes, especially weather related. I'll actually decide which spots to fish based on weather, wind direction, etc... I also study the lake biology, incuding all species of plants and fishes present.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 2/8/2014 10:06 AM
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Posts: 455
| First real hot muggy weather of the year. First major cold front in the fall. Late fall just before ice up. Those are my top times to get big fish but I really don`t fish them much different than if I was just trying to catch one. |
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Posts: 335
Location: Pulaski, WI | jlong - 2/7/2014 12:05 PM
What are you guys doing in the "off" season to increase your odds of contacting the "biggest fish in the lake".
Reading your posts!!! |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | The biggest fish (all species) in the lake (or river) live and feed next to the biggest abundant preferred forage available. Figure out where the largest average size preferred abundant forage species lives and you'll find the largest available fish in the lake.
Not as easy as it sounds, but I'll bet that that's the real key to the answer. Big fish like to eat big food! Certain areas or conditions (water temps) holds large forage.
I know this works on the LOTWs, and I'll bet it does else where also.
Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Doug,
Does this mean you spot check what is out in the basin areas before you move in and fish the adjacent structures?
Assuming you are not fishing out in the basin on LOTW.....  |
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Posts: 2
| another interesting topic. firstly keep in mind there are afew sub races of musky that many group together as one species, i would consider them slightly different especialy in waters with more than one present. from a biological perspective, two points come to mind. one generally these fish can eat pray about 1/3 there size. second, the larger the fish, the less it will chase a pray to get it, and the longer it will go between feeds.. i cant say for sure, but proably in the week range between meals in the 10lbs+ range. .. of course we are only at this point interested in 50-60lb class fish(or larger). i have stories to go with this subject but im out of time. wife is bugging me for breakfest. will stop back..
enjoy my best underwater musky vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HuV4wNIGdY |
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Posts: 70
| Fish threw the thunderstorms and at night!
I have caught some of my biggest fish in a two inch downpour!
You might have to duck into shore or tie up to an Island for the lightning show!
The tornado sucked but luckily I was on 26, on my way back from my folks!
Lyle and his partner Charlie were on Yellow! RIP (not from that)
That's when I knew he was for real!
1 second 1 mile from when you hear the thunder! |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | hunter - 5/8/2014 12:55 AM
1 second 1 mile from when you hear the thunder!
You are asking for trouble...
The speed of sound in 68 Deg F air is roughtly 1,125 ft/s.
5280 ft / 1125 ft/s = 4.6933 or 1 mile traveled per 4.6933 seconds.
Don't play in lighting. Ask Don Pursch. He'll let you know how it feels. |
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | I think the biggest fish are chasing pelagic forage for most of the year. Some good sonar would be the trick to finding those big girls |
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Targeting the "Biggest Fish in the Lake"