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Location: On the water | I need the definition of the primary and secondary breaks. Is the primary break the first break and the secondary break the break right before the basin? How much of a depth change before its considered a break? Any help would be appreciated, Tom |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | You have the concept correct. Primary break is the first drop off to deeper water from the shoreline. Secondary break is the last break into the deepest water in the lake basin, if any.
As for the amount of depth change at the break that is harder to define due to variances in lakes make up. Lakes break at different depths and in different amounts. However, these breaks are the sharpest and fastest changes in depth. The break may only be 5 feet in some waters or more than 20 feet in other waters, it all depends upon what is there around the area. But it is the sharpest and fastest dropping depth change in the bottom that defines the break... whatever that may be for that lake. Also remember that reefs too can have breaks on them so they don't have to be related to the shore.
A break is the sharpest, fastest change in the bottom (depth) for an area being fished. This can also change in different sections of a lake.
Hope this helps
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Location: On the water | Fish,
Thanks for replying, I thought that’s what they meant but was unsure.
Thanks again and good fishing,
Tom |
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Posts: 1168
| fishpoop - 8/12/2013 3:50 AM
Secondary break is the last break into the deepest water in the lake basin, if any.
Hope this helps
And if you have three or more breaks before you hit the deepest basin?
Just playing here....
I look at the second break (whether that's the last one before the deepest part or not) as the secondary break. Third break is the third break, fourth is the fourth, etc.
Depending on bottom contour and how structural elements flow together you could be fishing a secondary break off of one piece of structure but it could be a third or fourth etc. if there is a confluence of open water structure, a point, etc. |
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Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | @Ulbian
You make a good point and one that I should have addressed myself but didn't think of it until long after I signed off the internet last night.
That is a structure can have more than 2 breaks on it. It can have 3 or 4 or more. It all depends upon the structure. I should have mentioned that in my first reply but I was thinking only in terms of the OP's post about two breaks on a structure. |
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Location: Northern IL | What has been discussed to this point from what I gather should actually be called a "Breakline", details, which is defined as: "A line on the bottom where there is a definite increase or decrease in depth, either sudden or gradual- such as the edge of a channel, hole or gully; the "wall" of a weedline, brushline; where two bodies of water meet which differ in temperature, color, or movement (current). pg. 7
A "Break" was originally defined as: Where "Structure" is no longer uniform due to dips, or a quick drop in depth, rocks, stumps, bushes, sunken objects, etc".
Let me add that a "break", such as a rock pile or a hard clean spot etc "MUST" be on "Structure" for it to be a Break. A rock pile if it ever existed, which is not likely on a flat, (fish won't cross a flat) would be just a rock pile and the fish will NOT ever use it.
While on the subject of definitions, might as well throw out the most popular of misrepresented terms of them all, "Structure": The bottom of the lake with some unusual features that distinguish it from the surrounding bottom area".
A fisherman went to Delavan in southern WI. yesterday, he controlled his depth and speed, he underststood the terms and landed a walleye, 12 bass, 18 pike and a 42" muskie... |
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Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | @Jerry B
Then you get into the subject of a "break on the break" too. lol
I was trying to keep my reply fairly simple and to the point of the OP's original question and not confuse him further. But you are correct overall, a change in depth usually forms what we call a breakline. I just didn't want to confuse the guy further, as I said.
I'm an old time spoonplugger too though it's been a very long time since I've pulled out Buck's book and read it and I'm basically going from memory here. Buck was dead on right about many things but we've since learned that he didn't have it all figured out correctly. We've learned many things now about suspended fish that Buck didn't have quite right. Still, giving credit where credit is due, Buck did lay the foundation for modern fishing knowledge and understanding and that has been a solid foundation and I owe the man every bit of applause I can give him. May his memory never be forgotten.
Edited by fishpoop 8/13/2013 11:28 PM
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| jerryb - 8/13/2013 9:08 PM
(fish won't cross a flat)
Do you care to elaborate on this?
(sorry, not trying to hijack the thread, just curious) |
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Location: Smith Creek | "A rock pile if it ever existed, which is not likely on a flat, (fish won't cross a flat) would be just a rock pile and the fish will NOT ever use it."
The finality of this statement is confusing to me too. My experience alone proves it incorrect.
Edited by Flambeauski 8/14/2013 1:25 PM
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Location: Minneconia | jerryb - 8/13/2013 9:08 PM
(fish won't cross a flat) would be just a rock pile and the fish will NOT ever use it.
What? |
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| that statement had me confused as well. I guess all those muskies caught on the expansive sand flats on the north end of mille lacs missed that memo. |
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Location: Northern IL | Fishpoop,
I vaguely remember you, we may have talked in the past, hello again.
Buck talked often of stacking or free running a lure for suspended fish along a weedline and while making straight line passes off a bar or structure situation. I saw the question and certainly didn't mean to step on any toes, I understand what you were convening and what you said is SO much closer to what is normally talked or written about. With the watering down of the terms confusion may that take place, I know that before reading Bucks book I was a mess.
I read the answer and thought, yeah it's in the ballpark but some might want to know that there is a difference between a "break" and a breakline and it's kind of important. A break such as a rock pile as I said is just a rock pile, a weed bed is just a weed bed, a log is just a log "if" it's out in the middle of no where or on a "flat", or on the back side of a "delta ridge" etc... A break must be on structure for it to hold fish, "consistently". Don't know about anyone else but I want to catch fish consistently, I want to locate the school as quickly as possible and catch one on censecutive casts or trolling passes, not spend my time looking for a needle in a hay stack, I want to give myself and boat partners the BEST chance to catch a fish.
Now if a fisherman says he catches fish off a rock pile fairly regularly and thinks it's on a "flat", Buck says and I know he's right, it's NOT a flat.
I'm very familiar the north side of ml and yeah a lot of it IS void of structure, breaks and breaklines and would be considered a flat and not worth spending time there, but then again not all of it as you and I know. I guarantee the spots you catch fish on, what ever lake, river or reservor you find yourself on there is a well defined route for the fish to follow, shallow and way deeper than you ever imagined, look closer...  |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I am amazed I ever catch any fish. |
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Location: Northern IL | Me too |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That sir, is obvious.
Had a Prof back in college who started a Sociology semester with this line:
'The knowledge you might absorb in this classroom during the coming semester may or may not help you in your career. The minor details that you will need to know to Ace an exam will probably prove to be completely irrelevant to you in your future life. As an educator, my job over the next few weeks.... is to teach you how to learn.'
Smart man. |
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Location: Minneconia |
I'm very familiar the north side of ml and yeah a lot of it IS void of structure, breaks and breaklines and would be considered a flat and not worth spending time there, but then again not all of it as you and I know. I guarantee the spots you catch fish on, what ever lake, river or reservor you find yourself on there is a well defined route for the fish to follow, shallow and way deeper than you ever imagined, look closer... ;)
You mean like a rock pile on a flat? |
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Location: Northern IL | Your a brain surgeon.... |
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Location: Minneconia | You're missing the point Jerry... |
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| sworrall - 8/14/2013 5:33 PM
That sir, is obvious.
Had a Prof back in college who started a Sociology semester with this line:
'The knowledge you might absorb in this classroom during the coming semester may or may not help you in your career. The minor details that you will need to know to Ace an exam will probably prove to be completely irrelevant to you in your future life. As an educator, my job over the next few weeks.... is to teach you how to learn.'
Smart man. That is a very good point and wise words. I wish someone had said those things to me.
So many instructors these days teach "facts" and focus on the answer, but dont spend the time to help everyone understand how to get there. To me its more about how to find the answer than knowing what it is off the top of your head. I may not remember much, but I can sure find out the answer quickly. Thank you google.  |
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Breaks