Soft plastic differences
ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/24/2013 12:02 AM (#653304)
Subject: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the tackle industries bulldawgs and the musky inovations bulldawgs. Specifically the bigger baits like the mag and super mags (pounders). Gotta admit the price is quite appealing on the tackle industries!
Mojo1269
Posted 7/24/2013 7:27 AM (#653320 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 753


I sent you a PM...
Zib
Posted 7/24/2013 7:35 AM (#653321 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 1405


Location: Detroit River

Placement of the eyes are different, the TI has an extra set of side fins near the rear hook. TI uses the triple split rings & hooks are different. Plastic is softer on the MI dawgs & different color options. I've never had either apart but I would assume that internal harness might have some slight differences. The internal harness on the older MI dawgs was terrible & would pull out of the plastic then they started using the same type of harness that TI uses as well as some of the other big rubber bait makers like Chaos Tackle etc.

It all comes down to personal preference so you should try both & decide which one you like best. Personally I like the MI's better & need to sell my TI mag dawgs so I can buy more MI's.

 

Sam Ubl
Posted 7/24/2013 10:55 AM (#653350 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Location: SE Wisconsin
When you throw rubber the majority of your season, that says a lot about confidence in what you're throwing. I throw rubber over 75% of my seasons on the water and in doing so, have thrown just about every version out there. You don't need me to tell you that both Tackle Industries and Musky Innovations have earned a reputation for excellent customer service and producing proven tackle like the Bulldawgs and Super D's, but there are some minimal differences that are small enough that Tackle Industries prices are persuasive.

They both do the same thing - same action with no obvious differences in the water. Yes, Super D's have softer rubber, very similar to the older versions of MI's Bulldawgs, but there are perks with softer rubber that I think too many guys ignore. When fish chomp down on real forage, they can sink their teeth in. When a musky bites down on a hard bait they inevitably don't hold on as long - fact. What's important to me is that after casting for hours straight, when THE bite finally happens, I want that fish to sink her teeth in so she holds on. When I set the hook, I want her teeth to cut through the rubber with ease so I can drive the hooks into her jaws. Tackle Industries rubber does everything I want it to, and I can attest that the softer rubber doesn't mean the internal harness is popping out because the tail end of the harness doesn't stick out as far as MI's old version going back some years.

The best thing about rubber, no matter who's you throw, it's more often than not salvagable. I have two Super D's in particular from Tackle Industries that have half-dozen fish on each of them and neither one is in the scrap pile. They're war horses man, really they are. I've got buckets of both Tackle Industries and Musky Innovations rubber - believe me. But lately, Tackle Industries quality for the lower prices combined with James' awesome customer service has made a Customer for life out of me.

And hey, you can't tell me that after a full day of casting you wouldn't trade the low price of a Super D for putting one in the net if the rubber is damaged beyond repair! I had it happen one time this year and it would have happened to a MI Dawg, a TI Super D, a Chaos Medussa, and just about any other rubber out there.

I'll continue to buy Red October tubes, MI Dawgs, Chaos Dussa's, TI SuperD's, Live Action Joe's and Shack Attack Sue's & Suzies... They all have their place, colors and positives.


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ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/24/2013 11:17 AM (#653355 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


Thanks for the reviews guys. I had just bought a perch colored regular medusa last week and threw it for a day and a little 36 incher tore one of the 3 tails off and destroyed the thing completely lol. Sure I was happy to net a fish but a 22 bucks a lure I would rather not have 36 inchers shredding baits lol. Was just wondering about the same with these other bait companies
gordonmann69
Posted 7/24/2013 11:26 AM (#653360 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 149


Quality, price, durability, colors, just overall better lure is a SuperD. I also see TI do a ton for charities where I do not see much come from others. That also gets my full support.
FYGR8
Posted 7/24/2013 2:17 PM (#653386 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences





I am slowly becoming a fan of the rubber baits and I can honestly say that the construction of the Super D surpasses the MI. Like stated earlier, they do swim a bit different but I love the action of the TI version. The coil harness system is extremely tough and the latest colors are awesome. My walleye double dawg had it's eyes(painted on) disappear after one day of casting. TI uses holographic eyes and softer material that takes a beating! Best yet.........price!
Juhas
Posted 7/24/2013 3:06 PM (#653391 - in reply to #653386)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 431


Interesting topic.
FAT-SKI
Posted 7/24/2013 3:59 PM (#653398 - in reply to #653391)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 1360


Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished
There is a pretty interesting video on you tube where they do a test between the MI bulldawg and the TI super D. The video truley shows a clear window. Just do a search for TI super Ds VS Bulldawg. You will find it, but it should some great durability issues...
Lucky Craft Man
Posted 7/24/2013 4:10 PM (#653401 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 242


I have fished both and even though the Super D is much more durable, I love the way the newer Bulldawgs "glide" in the water after a jerk.
ffdonnie
Posted 7/24/2013 4:17 PM (#653404 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 179


Location: Wisconsin
I have used them both. They both have there own action but you can make them both do the same thing. The biggest different between them is $, quality of workmanship, color choices and #1 on my list costumer service. Out of all those I believe there is only one choice. TI SuperD. Lets start with workmanship. The SuperD has a coil harness that holds the plastic to the harness not allowing the plastic to pull off so easy. With MI bulldogs, I have had them pull apart without ever seeing a fish. Which leads in to $. For the price there is no better bait than the SuperD. When it comes to color choices they both have a lot to choice from. And then my number 1 is customer service. James from TI will do almost anything to make a customer happy if there is a problem. He donates a lot to the military and children's hospitals. This would be my opinion.
ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/24/2013 7:17 PM (#653429 - in reply to #653404)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


Looks like I started quite the campfire! Someone grab the marshmallows lol. Seriously thanks for all of the replies guys
muskyhunter47
Posted 7/24/2013 7:56 PM (#653438 - in reply to #653429)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 1638


Location: Minnesota
they both work the biggest difference to me is made in USA or made in china. I have them both but I have more MI then TI.when money was tight I bought TI baits .now ill pay extra to keep americans working but that's just me sorry
ffdonnie
Posted 7/24/2013 8:17 PM (#653442 - in reply to #653404)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 179


Location: Wisconsin
Good customer service is great, but I'd prefer not to have "a problem" to begin with.

What are these problems you mention anyways? I've never seen anything negative about a TI product last more than ten minutes.

Enough bad mouthing of MI in this thread though.


First you need to read what I wrote. I said "IF" there is a problem. I did not say anything about a problem. Next if you want to comment. Don't hide behind a GUEST name. Log in.

Second. I don't see anyone really bad mouthing anyone. I see people pointing out differences between them and what they like and don't like.
Zib
Posted 7/24/2013 8:41 PM (#653444 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 1405


Location: Detroit River

 The Super D resembles a Bulldawg too closely (including the 3 ribs on each side near the tail section) that it almost seems unethical. 

 

I have heard from a very reliable source that MI has a prototype jigging bait out that's a knock off of the Bondy Bait. You would think that a company that had their bait knocked off wouldn't do it to someone else.

 

ARmuskyaddict
Posted 7/24/2013 9:02 PM (#653450 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 2024


Wow! Can you imagine the arguments there could be about spinnerbait and bucktail knockoffs?
MartinTD
Posted 7/24/2013 9:05 PM (#653452 - in reply to #653444)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 1142


Location: NorthCentral WI
Zib - 7/24/2013 8:41 PM

I would consider the Curly Sue a spin-off but to Andy's credit, they developed something original as well.

 

I have heard from a very reliable source that MI has a prototype jigging bait out that's a knock off of the Bondy Bait. You would think that a company that had their bait knocked off wouldn't do it to someone else.

 



Zib, If that's the case I'm sure MI won't be using a Bondy to make their molds.

Maybe you missed the point... there is an undisputed difference.
Bulldawg vs. Super D
Bulldawg vs. Curly Sue

Donnie, based on this entire thread one might think the Super D is a far superior lure and I just can't agree with that whatsoever. BTW, I'm logged in Sorry, I didn't want to be blackballed.
dr_hellhound
Posted 7/24/2013 9:44 PM (#653458 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 31


I love bulldawgs and don't care for the super D's, on action alone. Where is TI's merch manufactured.....? MI's? Surprised this hasn't come up yet.
dr_hellhound
Posted 7/24/2013 9:47 PM (#653460 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 31


*suprised this hasn't come up more, my bad.
gordonmann69
Posted 7/24/2013 9:50 PM (#653461 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 149


Let's see Bulldawgs fall apart for years. SuperD comes in and fixes it with the coil harness. Bulldawg copies it but complains about being copied still? And USA vs China? The Bulldawg was made in China for the last 15 years. The new USA ones are not doing well quality wise either so I will stick with SuperDs. I heard only the custom dawgs are made in the USA and the reg dawgs are all still China dawgs. TI does more for the musky community than any other company I have seen too. Keep up the good work TI.
Ja Rule
Posted 7/25/2013 6:14 AM (#653486 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 415


Both make great baits. You don't need to bash one company or the other. The way some grown men on here get bent out of shape because someone doesn't agree with their favorite is sad.
FAT-SKI
Posted 7/25/2013 8:02 AM (#653504 - in reply to #653458)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 1360


Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished

What I do think is funny is from what I am reading the only real complaint with MI is durability issues. Does anyone besides me think it's funny that the dawgs with the quality issues are the ones built in good ole US of A. and the ones without that issue are built in china? I am a true fan of irony, I agree to purchase from local businesses to support our local economy. But the fact that the ones built here are the ones with quality problems makes me laugh on a few different levels. (not saying there are still issues, just saying)
Zib
Posted 7/25/2013 11:49 AM (#653554 - in reply to #653504)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 1405


Location: Detroit River

FAT-SKI - 7/25/2013 9:02 AM What I do think is funny is from what I am reading the only real complaint with MI is durability issues. Does anyone besides me think it's funny that the dawgs with the quality issues are the ones built in good ole US of A. and the ones without that issue are built in china? I am a true fan of irony, I agree to purchase from local businesses to support our local economy. But the fact that the ones built here are the ones with quality problems makes me laugh on a few different levels. (not saying there are still issues, just saying)

From my understanding only the custom MI's are made in the US & the standard colors are made in China. The packaging on the 2 I bought from R&H this year showed they were made in China.

 

FAT-SKI
Posted 7/25/2013 2:36 PM (#653581 - in reply to #653554)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 1360


Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished
Zib - 7/25/2013 11:49 AM

FAT-SKI - 7/25/2013 9:02 AM What I do think is funny is from what I am reading the only real complaint with MI is durability issues. Does anyone besides me think it's funny that the dawgs with the quality issues are the ones built in good ole US of A. and the ones without that issue are built in china? I am a true fan of irony, I agree to purchase from local businesses to support our local economy. But the fact that the ones built here are the ones with quality problems makes me laugh on a few different levels. (not saying there are still issues, just saying)

From my understanding only the custom MI's are made in the US & the standard colors are made in China. The packaging on the 2 I bought from R&H this year showed they were made in China.

 



----

Hmmmm, Interesting. I was unaware. Thnks for the correction
Killerbug
Posted 7/25/2013 3:03 PM (#653588 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 339


Location: Denmark
I would say both lures have their pros and cons, and what version of the lure are we talking about. The info below applies to lures I have bought during the last three years, and many improvement might have happened to the latest versions of both lures since.

As for the magnums, IMO, the second generation MagD's where great lures, with a perfect consistency in each batch, and a perfect softness of the plastisol. The never versions I have tried, was added less softener in the plastic, and the consistency from batch to batch differs a lot. Not so important, but worth to mention, the eyes on the latest MagD's falls off after a few casts. The second generation MagD's I now fish for years, has never lost an eye?.

In a cold water situations, when I slow roll them, IMO the new MagD's are too stiff, so the tails hardly moves. Here the Magnum bullies are much better(or the second gen D's)

Speaking of the Pounder/MegaD, the action of the Pounder is generally better, as the MagD, tends to tilt to either side, when ripping the lure. Durability of the MegaD is a great though, and the tail moves better than on the MagD's.

The new US made Bullies are great lures, along with the second gen D's the perfect compromise, between plastic softness, and durability.

But I have caught big fish on them all, but both lures have room for improvements.
mskyhntr
Posted 7/25/2013 3:48 PM (#653594 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 814


I prefer bulldawgs just cause I prefer the action over the super d's. super d's sink rather than hanglide like the dawgs. But does anyone besides me hate the new thick dawg tails? I say bring back the thin tails of old, especially on the pounders!! The old dawg tail would move when the lure was practically motionless. The new thick ones stall and don't move good with slow speeds.
DH.Pare
Posted 7/25/2013 4:05 PM (#653598 - in reply to #653594)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 288


Location: Montreal, Que. Canada
Have you tried dipping the tails of the Dawgs or Pounders in Boiling water at least that is what I've heard works with a Medusa if the rubber is not supple enough.

David
Tackle Industries
Posted 7/25/2013 5:04 PM (#653606 - in reply to #653594)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 4053


Location: Land of the Musky
mskyhntr - 7/25/2013 3:48 PM

I prefer bulldawgs just cause I prefer the action over the super d's. super d's sink rather than hanglide like the dawgs. But does anyone besides me hate the new thick dawg tails? I say bring back the thin tails of old, especially on the pounders!! The old dawg tail would move when the lure was practically motionless. The new thick ones stall and don't move good with slow speeds.


Just an FYI on the new SuperD lures. We redesigned the harnesses and moved the weight back about 30% to give the new lures more of a glide vs a hop. After doing a lot of customer questioning on hop vs glide, about 75% preferred the glide so we made the change. As for the plastisol, all of the new ones have the softer plastisol for a much improved movement through the water. I was concerned about this new rubber but after a lot of testing it was obvious that the body lock coil harness was going to be more than enough to keep the body on the harness and keep the SuperD as a multi-fish boating bait.

A few have already said it here... each bait has its place, time and use. The new MI dawgs look great and I was very impressed at the 2013 musky shows with their color selections. The Medussa lures area also a dream to look at in the water and will catch you some real monsters. Can't wait to see what Esox Tackle has in store for those lures for 2014! And of course my favorite double tail lure from Rubber Hairy probably gets more water time from me on trips than my SuperD lures do. LOL when I get to go fishing... Eric from Rubber Hairy really knows how to pour and paint a swimbait! At the end of the day, be with your kids/friends, go fish and relax Thats what its all about.

Have a great weekend all,
James

muskyhunter47
Posted 7/25/2013 5:42 PM (#653608 - in reply to #653606)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 1638


Location: Minnesota
I e mailed Brad from MI today I was told there baits were made in china. 2 years ago they brought them back to USA .he said right now there is a mix in the store a bought 70 % should be us made. once they go through all the china baits it will be 100% USA .I also found out there working on 5 new baits witch will be made in usa
Landry
Posted 7/26/2013 9:25 PM (#653828 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 1023


I can see where MI would be p.o'd at TI for sure. I would be. However, I like both products and James has great respect for his customers. I use them both Nd have more dawgs. However, my fav bait is an older Super D that hops and fishes deeper, is very soft and very durable,(easily has a dozen fish on it). It is a Cisco bait that is a subtle pearl and the back is barely blue - much more subtle than the new Cisco patterns.
I personally would like to see a heavier hopping bait added to one of these companies lineup. Something that I can fish deeper faster with a hop. I have started to use a bondy a lot when casting deeper spots lately, but it tilts at higher speeds and is better for jigging than casting IMO.
I am toying with making my own bondy/heli dawg knockoff, (for personal use). I think a little extra weigh and slightly narrower body on a dawg or D would be a great bait to add to the arsenal.
Landry
ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/26/2013 10:01 PM (#653832 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


James are these newer designed super D lures the ones that are currently being sold for 11.99 on the website or are these the older designs the have more of a hop?
Guest
Posted 7/27/2013 4:37 AM (#653856 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


Landry, if you're casting to deeper spots you may want to look up the new Bondy 'Hot Orba'. It's a slow rolling deeper type bait with double #8's. MTO has them.
sworrall
Posted 7/27/2013 9:41 AM (#653877 - in reply to #653450)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 32894


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
ARmuskyaddict - 7/24/2013 9:02 PM

Wow! Can you imagine the arguments there could be about spinnerbait and bucktail knockoffs?

Exactly.

There were Many designs of soft plastic swimbaits that go back to the 70's.

Ever look at a shelf full of crankbaits? Which one was the first to use a particular nearly identical body design? 'Nearly' is the key, a small percentage of difference is all that's required legally, and if you look carefully, the differences will stand out more than the similarities. The difference between crankbaits is very small, and it's up to the consumer to decide which to buy. Durability, action, fish catching record, customer service after the purchase, hook quality, and more....marketing lures is what it is and always has been.

Who came up with the first double bladed bucktail? Who used synthetic material for the tail first?

In the lure business BRAND has always been what makes or breaks a company. All companies have issues from time to time with a product, and customer service and a careful, steady marketing program will determine how the problems are perceived by the consumer and effect whether the majority will continue to purchase the BRAND as changes are made and new designs are introduced.

Arguing without regard to how the fishing lure business has worked since the 30's and will continue to work into the future while hollering about which was this or which was that is all about brand loyalty. A product made in the US may or may not be superior to a competing product built in another country. If it costs more and isn't superior quality, the BRAND had better be perceived as superior, or the competition will take market share. That's business, pure and simple.

Generally speaking, it's easy to tell when someone is very loyal to a brand, and that's cool, that is how things are supposed to work. One bit of info...the brand can be hurt, and hurt badly, by those who are loyal to it bashing the competition. Any Pro staffer who bashes the competition is destined in today's market to be looking for a new home if the sponsor is savvy. If someone from the BRAND bashes the competition, they just plain are giving market share away. That's bad business and has a tremendous effect in today's 'instant info' marketplace.

It used to be perfectly legal to splash a boat hull. At one point there were 7 companies selling walleye boats with identical hulls. I watched as a Yar Craft was loaded up on a truck and sent to Texas for Skeeter to splash. That is where the hull for the 16' V came from originally. The 17' V was also a Yar Craft splash. Doesn't make them the 'same' boat.
Tackle Industries
Posted 7/27/2013 10:11 AM (#653881 - in reply to #653832)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 4053


Location: Land of the Musky
ckhawkeye51 - 7/26/2013 10:01 PM

James are these newer designed super D lures the ones that are currently being sold for 11.99 on the website or are these the older designs the have more of a hop?


Yes, these are the old style hop pounders. We are actually liquidating all MegaDs. Nothing wrong with them but sales of our MiniD, Reg and Mag SuperDs are about 50:1 compared to the MegaD so we don't have time to deal with the MegaDs anymore. Enjoy the savings, when they are gone they are gone...

Thanks,
James

ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/27/2013 11:26 AM (#653891 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


That surprises me...for whatever reason I thought the "pounder" soft plastics were the in right now for big rubber? That seems to be the only thing people talk about right now, why the lack of sales? When will your new design with the weight further back be ready for the Mag super D's?
Tackle Industries
Posted 7/27/2013 11:30 AM (#653894 - in reply to #653891)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 4053


Location: Land of the Musky
ckhawkeye51 - 7/27/2013 11:26 AM

That surprises me...for whatever reason I thought the "pounder" soft plastics were the in right now for big rubber? That seems to be the only thing people talk about right now, why the lack of sales? When will your new design with the weight further back be ready for the Mag super D's?


I know a lot of the hard core guys here use pounder size lures but the general musky buying public buy a lot smaller lures. My number one selling "musky" lure is the MiniD but I know lots of bass, striper, etc guys buy those. These take up a lot of room in my warehouse and shipping center too. Kind of one of those things where it takes 80% effort to make 20% of your money when I could be working on a lure that can make me 80% of my money and only take 20% effort

James

PS-Don't worry, I have over 6000 MegaD Pounders left to liquidate!!

ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/27/2013 12:30 PM (#653906 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


Are your newly designed mag super D's currently available on your site? I thought I read earlier that you were making changes for more of a glide with your baits?
Tackle Industries
Posted 7/27/2013 7:38 PM (#653966 - in reply to #653906)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 4053


Location: Land of the Musky
ckhawkeye51 - 7/27/2013 12:30 PM

Are your newly designed mag super D's currently available on your site? I thought I read earlier that you were making changes for more of a glide with your baits?


Correct, the new Reg and Mag SuperDs in custom colors have the new weight system in them for more glide....Also softer plastisol.

You can see the colors at the bottom of each page:
Reg SuperDs:
http://www.tackleindustries.com/bassfishingprolure.html
Mag SuperDs:
http://www.tackleindustries.com/largemouthbasslure.html

MTO just got a full lineup of these too for their online store.

James

ckhawkeye51
Posted 7/27/2013 11:35 PM (#653981 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 180


Wish I would have added a custom mag or 2 to my order today! Maybe ill get a surprise bait in my shipment lol!
tundrawalker00
Posted 7/28/2013 8:03 AM (#654004 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 504


Location: Ludington, MI
I love a gliding action. Most of my plastic is MI, but I love to see James on here giving advice and answering questions. I also fish a lot of Thunderbeasts because I think their tail is unique among the big rubber types. Too bad Storm dropped it. I'd like to see one of the other companies pick up this wider, flatter tail design.

On the subject of Bondys, The Hot Orba is in stock at Rollies. Not my thing but if you fish deep slow-rolling lures, it looks sharp.
Killerbug
Posted 7/28/2013 10:46 AM (#654028 - in reply to #653877)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 339


Location: Denmark
sworrall - 7/27/2013 9:41 AM

ARmuskyaddict - 7/24/2013 9:02 PM

Wow! Can you imagine the arguments there could be about spinnerbait and bucktail knockoffs?

Exactly.

There were Many designs of soft plastic swimbaits that go back to the 70's.

Ever look at a shelf full of crankbaits? Which one was the first to use a particular nearly identical body design? 'Nearly' is the key, a small percentage of difference is all that's required legally, and if you look carefully, the differences will stand out more than the similarities. The difference between crankbaits is very small, and it's up to the consumer to decide which to buy. Durability, action, fish catching record, customer service after the purchase, hook quality, and more....marketing lures is what it is and always has been.

Who came up with the first double bladed bucktail? Who used synthetic material for the tail first?

In the lure business BRAND has always been what makes or breaks a company. All companies have issues from time to time with a product, and customer service and a careful, steady marketing program will determine how the problems are perceived by the consumer and effect whether the majority will continue to purchase the BRAND as changes are made and new designs are introduced.

Arguing without regard to how the fishing lure business has worked since the 30's and will continue to work into the future while hollering about which was this or which was that is all about brand loyalty. A product made in the US may or may not be superior to a competing product built in another country. If it costs more and isn't superior quality, the BRAND had better be perceived as superior, or the competition will take market share. That's business, pure and simple.

Generally speaking, it's easy to tell when someone is very loyal to a brand, and that's cool, that is how things are supposed to work. One bit of info...the brand can be hurt, and hurt badly, by those who are loyal to it bashing the competition. Any Pro staffer who bashes the competition is destined in today's market to be looking for a new home if the sponsor is savvy. If someone from the BRAND bashes the competition, they just plain are giving market share away. That's bad business and has a tremendous effect in today's 'instant info' marketplace.

It used to be perfectly legal to splash a boat hull. At one point there were 7 companies selling walleye boats with identical hulls. I watched as a Yar Craft was loaded up on a truck and sent to Texas for Skeeter to splash. That is where the hull for the 16' V came from originally. The 17' V was also a Yar Craft splash. Doesn't make them the 'same' boat.


Steve,,,I am not entirely sure, what you are trying to emphasize here, but if it is, that all products are equally worthy, innovative etc, you are wrong. Some smaller US companies get brutally ripped off because of bad international copyright and patent laws.

In Europe, Okuma has just launched a 1:1 copy of the Baker Hookout. Nothing to do, because " The Baker" is only US patented.

The European result of this, I can only buy the copy now in my local store. My local store told me the Baker way too expensive to import.(and Baker looses profit).

Morale.: If the Baker hookout had originally been made by Warner Bross, or Sony, Okuma would have been fined badly by copyright infringement laws.

Can't help to post the story of Charles Goodyear, who never got either the money, or the credit for his great invention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodyear
sworrall
Posted 7/28/2013 10:49 AM (#654030 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 32894


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
'Steve,,,I am not entirely sure, what you are trying to emphasize here, but if it is, that all products are equally worthy, innovative etc, you are wrong'

Read my post again. Didn't say or even insinuate that.

Fishing lures are not 'copyrighted', that's published stuff.

Patents are pretty much useless in the fishing lure business unless the patent applies to a feature that is extremely specific because of the small changes that will get one legally around a patent. Look it up. I think that is a wonderful thing. Gives us many choices of lure types and creates active competition for our money spent, forcing good quality and customer service coupled with fish catching qualities. If any fishing lure or tool is sub-par in the quality and fish catching department, it won't sell. If quality is too expensive for some markets to bear, that's the way it is....and someone will offer an alternative. Whether it sells or not depends on the quality and if it does what it's supposed to do.

I capitalized what I was emphasizing.

BRAND.
Killerbug
Posted 7/28/2013 11:25 AM (#654035 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 339


Location: Denmark
"Patents are pretty much useless in the fishing lure business unless the patent applies to a feature that is extremely specific because of the small changes that will get one legally around a patent."

True, but it's still not a correct behavier to enrich yourself on ideas, design, and hard work of others. That's the problem of the extreeme liberalism of today, it eat itself up from the inside, and do not favor those who create those values(innovation),that has driven vestern civilisation forward for centuries.

Anyway Steve, I guess this discussion belongs to another type of forum, so let's close it here. Thanks for for your time, and tight lines.
tundrawalker00
Posted 7/28/2013 12:14 PM (#654043 - in reply to #654035)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences




Posts: 504


Location: Ludington, MI
The only fishing tackle suit I have personal knowledge of was ruled a violation of trade dress. The judge told a manufacturer of a salmon fishing rotating flasher that he could continue to make his product but it looked too much like the original product. So the alleged trade dress violator paid off the guy suing him, liquidated his remaining product, went back to the drawing board seeking a similar action with a different look and now controls the rotating flasher market on the Great Lakes. So if you love your SpinDoctors, thank a judge.
Guest
Posted 7/29/2013 7:09 AM (#654172 - in reply to #654035)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


Killerbug - 7/28/2013 11:25 AM

"Patents are pretty much useless in the fishing lure business unless the patent applies to a feature that is extremely specific because of the small changes that will get one legally around a patent."

True, but it's still not a correct behavier to enrich yourself on ideas, design, and hard work of others. That's the problem of the extreeme liberalism of today, it eat itself up from the inside, and do not favor those who create those values(innovation),that has driven vestern civilisation forward for centuries.

Anyway Steve, I guess this discussion belongs to another type of forum, so let's close it here. Thanks for for your time, and tight lines.



by chance the majority of the customers don't think like you.for example how your today's dawgs would be without ti?
Guest
Posted 8/3/2013 10:55 AM (#655271 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


Another option is the twisted tullibee from RubberHairy Tackle its all made in the u.s.a. and is a slower working bait that works well over weeds and shallow rocks .But still has the large profiel of the double tails.
Guest
Posted 8/3/2013 11:32 AM (#655280 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


MI is making 5 new baits? How many will be truly their idea? The problem with the lure industry is that people have no problem knocking off other people's hard work. So much for 'innovation' and business ethics. How about we return to what made the country great...
sworrall
Posted 8/3/2013 12:20 PM (#655284 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: Re: Soft plastic differences





Posts: 32894


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Pick any consumer item. Electronics, fabrics, any fishing gear, any hunting gear, anything you wish...and tell me there are not MANY more models by other brands similar to the 'original'. And if you look around, you will find similar products existed on the market many times before the 'original' brand mass produced their products.

I wouldn't be real keen on only 'allowing' (have to be government agency enforcing, no other way) one manufacturer of any similar consumer item, that didn't work very well for some countries.

Patents, copyrights, and trademarks all are designed to allow for innovative ideas to create profits while at the same time encouraging competition. Anyone entering the fishing tackle business with the goal of building a strong National Brand already knew the rules of the game before entering the market.
Guest
Posted 8/3/2013 7:24 PM (#655325 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


landry even if you dont sell them can you post some pics of your creation?
Guest
Posted 8/4/2013 12:00 AM (#655373 - in reply to #655280)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


Guest - 8/3/2013 11:32 AM

MI is making 5 new baits? How many will be truly their idea? The problem with the lure industry is that people have no problem knocking off other people's hard work. So much for 'innovation' and business ethics. How about we return to what made the country great...


i would like to see a mi deep jigging baits,because there is plenty of place for improvements.
out of the big co mi is one them who copy the less.
on the other side you have drifter with their top 3 biggest seller which are copy,but some have been improved compared to the original so personally i have no problem for it but for the creator it must be really frustrating.

so the tips of the day is improve or die there is no place for laziness
Guest
Posted 8/4/2013 6:57 AM (#655388 - in reply to #653304)
Subject: RE: Soft plastic differences


Are the MI's US made baits made from Chinese parts or US parts?