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Posts: 63
Location: Madison, WI | I have two GPS units on my boat for the first time this year (a Lowrance HDS9 touch and a HDS7) Do you guys who run multiple GPS units have a separate battery just for the depth finders? We currently have them both running off the starting battery. My Dad has my boat up in Canada right now and he just called me saying that the boat wouldn't start due to a dead battery. He thinks that maybe the two units are draining the battery. Just wondering if I should get a third battery or if 2 (1 for trolling motor) is usually good enough.
Also, I don't like the batteries that we have and am looking to get a good quality one before my trip next week. What's the best battery out there (regardless of price)? |
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Posts: 5874
| I'd get a dual purpose battery. It's a deep cycle battery, with cranking capabilities. Get as big a battery as you can fit in the space you have.
Lot's of good batteries out there. I've had great success with traditional wet-cell lead acid batteries. I use group 29's. That's a group 31 battery in a 27 case. Awesome. Not sure if you can still get them. I got my batteries from Remy in Milwaukee. Link below. Exide, Northern, Trojan, Interstate. Lots of these brands are made by Johnson Controls.
AGM, or absorbed glass matt batteries are very good, completely sealed, and require no maintenance. Trojan, Cabela's, and Dekka are a couple popular brands.
SpiralCell Technology is still fairly new. In my experience, you just don't get the same reserve as you would from wet-cell, or AGM batteries. You will pay more. Optima is the most common brand.
http://www.remybattery.com/Search.aspx?s=Name%20ASC&ps=48
I always charged my batteries after every use. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Isn't there a constant drain on the battery from the gps units? Can he install a switch to power those off when not running? |
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Posts: 190
Location: Savage, MN | I had a similar problem with my batteries draining on my boat as well. In doing some research I found that the external antenna (LG-3000) that I had on my LCX-27C was slowly drawing power even when not in use. I am not sure if the internal antennas draw when it isn't on. I hooked up an additional switch that cuts the power off to both the bow and counsel graphs when not in use. Problem solved. |
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Posts: 63
Location: Madison, WI | That's an interesting twist. I hadn't thought about them actually draining the battery while they were turned off.
I'm not much of an electrician, if at all...is it just an inline switch? Cut the wire and install it? Any additional info you have would be appreciated.
Also interested what others thoughts are about battery draining even with the units off. |
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Posts: 63
Location: Madison, WI | Also worth noting:
- I do not have a GPS puck.
- I have the two units connected via an ethernet cord. |
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Posts: 50
| 2 years ago I bought a new boat and with that I put 2 humminbirds on it and both have gps and are connected with an ethernet. Both units are hooked up to starting battery. On both of my week trips to Ontario, the starting battery died during midweek. Replaced the starting battery after the second trip. Never had a problem the rest of the year. (All my trips were 1 or 2 days max) Last year, same thing. Dead battery in Ontario. Spent a bunch of time looking for a voltage draw. (sounds easy but its not) I kept track of battery voltage every day in the garage even when the boat wasn't used. Still nothing changed. I've come to the conclusion that the 2 Birds were draining down my starting battery. The outboard was charging at over 14 volts when it was running but it wasn't keeping up. I found this hard to believe because of some of the long motor runs when in Ontario. I'm pretty sure I have this problem solved now. When I bought my boat, I had a 2 bank onboard charger installed for the 2 trolling motor batteries. I just purchased a 3 bank charger so now whenever I charge the trolling motor ones, I also charge the starting. Now I need to sell a 2 bank charger.
Good Luck
Brian |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Your batteries don't usually just die, they are usually murdered! Mostly by misuse & lack of proper recharge or wrong battery type for the application. Sure, load the starting battery up with these modern electronics gizmo's, no problem, right? WRONG!
I looked up the two Lowrance units in question. See page 35.
http://www.lowrance.com/Root/Lowrance-Documents/US/HDS_GEN2_TOUCH_I...
Ha! Doesn't seem like much load - HDS7 (0.9A) and HDS9 (1.2A) @ 13VDC, total = ~ 2.1A. A fully charged 12V battery at rest is 12.7VDC . Why Lowrance spec's the load current at 13VDC doesn't make sense to me! But then again, I'm just an electronics/electrical engineer.
These little electronic loads are also constant watt devices, meaning they draw more current at lower voltages. Your charging battery is mean't to be at full charge ALL the time (when needed to start the motor). At ~10.8VDC these two units will be drawing about 4A.
If we average that for a 10 hr day, we are looking at a 40AH battery load@10hr rate. Ha, no problem I've got a 80AH starting battery! WRONG! A starting battery was never designed to support this kind of discharge. Just because the alternator is putting out 14VDC also doesn't mean the battery is fully charged either!
Don't forget about the other %$&# we hook up to the starting battery too. Running lights, bilge pump, stereo/radio, marine radio, etc. It all adds up through a full day of fishing, if you repeat it day to day - multiple day trips you might need jumper cables to start the motor.
Some day maybe the boat manufacturer's will actually figure out that the real fisherman need a separate battery for the navigation/sonar(s). On a large muskie boat like those used for guiding, etc. you might want 5 batteries - 36V TM (3), 12V electronics (1), and 12V starting (1). I'd even put the motor on a battery switch - A (starting) or B (electronics) or A+B (both). These also usually have a off position, so you don't have to worry about draining the battery when the boat is not in use. I installed one and a second battery for a friend in RI, after he had to call SeaTow a few times.
http://www.seatow.com/
Shep's advice is solid. Start there.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 5874
| CnR_Angler - 6/5/2013 2:27 PM
That's an interesting twist. I hadn't thought about them actually draining the battery while they were turned off.
I'm not much of an electrician, if at all...is it just an inline switch? Cut the wire and install it? Any additional info you have would be appreciated.
Also interested what others thoughts are about battery draining even with the units off.
Unless you have an external antenna, or an NMEA 2000 Backbone setup, there should be no drain on your batteries when your sonars are turned off. If you do have either of these, then look at pages 22 and 23 of the install manual Al provided. You'll need to switch the power to the network.
I always have my starting battery on a bank of my onboard charger, and charge them after every use. Especially important when you're runnin and gunnin while muskie fishning. The big motor doesn't run enough to charge the battery fully. |
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Posts: 63
Location: Madison, WI | Thanks all for the great advice! I had a 24 series as the starting battery and a 27 as the trolling motor battery. Thinking that the alternator would handle the charging of the starting battery, I never really thought to charge it just the trolling one.
I ended up buying a new 29 and am going to use that for the trolling motor, and am going to use the 27 for the main battery.
I also purchased a two bank charger and will start charging both batteries each time.
Hopefully this will take care of our issues!
Thanks! |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | CnR - If you have Group 27 deep cycle for the TM, it won't last long as a starting battery. That was one of my points in my previous post. Wrong application of battery type.
Deep cycle = Trolling motor or electronics only!
Starting = Main motor + limited electronics.
Dual Purpose = Main motor + electronics (however there are limits here too)
I know, its clear as mud.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 6/8/2013 6:53 AM
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Location: 31 | ESOX Maniac - 6/8/2013 6:15 AM
CnR - If you have Group 27 deep cycle for the TM, it won't last long as a starting battery. That was one of my points in my previous post. Wrong application of battery type. Deep cycle = Trolling motor or electronics only! Starting = Main motor + limited electronics. Dual Purpose = Main motor + electronics (however there are limits here too) I know, its clear as mud. Have fun!
Al
I'm no electrical engineer but curious what your thoughts are on using the large dual-purpose crank/deep cycle batteries for crank/electronics. The battery I've been using is the...
OPTIMA® BLUETOP® D31M group 31 batteries are our most powerful and have the largest energy storage capacity. BLUETOP® has three times the cycling capability (re-chargeability) with ultimate cranking power for your boat or RV in a maintenance-free package.
Link:
http://www.optimabatteries.com/us/en/shop/bluetop/bluetop-group-31-...
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Posts: 5874
| I think that would be a very good battery for cranking/electronics. MCA of 1125 amps exceeds specs for large HP DFI motors. Plus you get the reserve of a deep cycle for your electronics. I would still have that on one bank of my charger. |
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Posts: 256
Location: plant earth | Had the same problems while back dead batteries in the middle of nowhere SUCKS! So I added a 3 bank charger , perko battery switch and an extra all purpose battery so if trolling motor goes dead BACKUP and if starting battery goes dead BACKUP. nothing can substitute for a good battery when your having problems. I think we all have had one of those days. |
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Location: 31 | jdeezay74 - 6/10/2013 11:14 AM
Had the same problems while back dead batteries in the middle of nowhere SUCKS! So I added a 3 bank charger , perko battery switch and an extra all purpose battery so if trolling motor goes dead BACKUP and if starting battery goes dead BACKUP. nothing can substitute for a good battery when your having problems. I think we all have had one of those days.
Right on... one of my biggest fears too! Here's something you might be interested in...
My boat originally came with two crank batteries, one for the big outboard and one for the kicker. I decided to go with only one of these monster 31s for both motors because of my Stealth 1 on board charging system.
The way it works is after the charge is complete using any 12 V charger on the crank battery, the Stealth 1 onboard charger redirects the charge to top off/maintain the 36 V. The Stealth 1 system also redirects my boats alternator to charge the 36 V after the crank battery is fully charged on the water.
I've used this system on my last two boats and after many years, it has worked really well for me both on and off the water. I would never own a fishing boat without one now.
It's super easy and reassuring to just plug in the one 12 V charger and know that all batteries will be properly maintained, I also have a separate on board 36 V charger I can use for quickly recharging after a day or two of casting.
Edited by Jerry Newman 6/11/2013 12:35 PM
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Location: 31 | Shep - 6/10/2013 10:25 AM
I think that would be a very good battery for cranking/electronics. MCA of 1125 amps exceeds specs for large HP DFI motors. Plus you get the reserve of a deep cycle for your electronics. I would still have that on one bank of my charger.
Yeah, it seems like a no-brainer to use one of these large dual-purpose batteries for the boats crank battery. I honestly can't get my mind around why a deep cycle battery wouldn't out perform a straight crank battery (even without the electronics) if it can provide the necessary cold cranking amps.
But then again I'm no electrical engineer either  |
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Posts: 5874
| Most true single purpose deep cycle batteries are not designed for the high current draw of starting outboard motors. Internal plates and connections are designed for slowly discharging at relatively low currents, and become stressed and fail early if used as a cranking battery.
That's why dual purpose batteries are made. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | So even though the graph is off it does or does not drain the starting battery? |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | It can |
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Location: 31 | If you're not sure, I'd recommend installing a separate fuse box for your electronics. After giving it some thought I decided to run my electronics (three units, structure scan, 4000 GPS antenna, weather module) to an on-off switch and a separate fuse box. I turn the electronics off first, then switch off the power to the fuse box (electronics should be powered down at the unit).
A couple of times I've left the switch on accidentally and noticed my main battery discharging, so I'm really glad I rigged the boat this way... a bit more hassle and expense to rig this way, but no worries and all of the 3 AMP fuses are readily accessible too.
(Thanks Shep!)
Edited by Jerry Newman 6/12/2013 5:10 PM
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Couple of Battery Questions