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Posts: 10
| What is your preffered wood for making musky baits??
#1 Flat sided baits.
#2 Turned on lathe.
Other.
I use maple for deep trollers and they are turned on lathe. Just to much sanding, I could use Poplar but will it hold up to musky teeth, I do use e-tex as a top coat.
Wayne |
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| cedar all 3. poplar will swell like a ballpark frank |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | I once went on a mission to build a hardwood(tooth proof) Slasher trolling crank. It failed. I used Oak, Maple and Cherry and really had a hard time catching fish on the lures until I went to Cedar. Cedar trolling baits get tore up because they get Bit a lot more. Hard woods really work great for lures that the fisherman has to move by jerking, ripping twitching etc. Lighter woods like Balsa and Cedar move so much better trolled. My White Cedar is like Balsa its so light. I just got a call back from a Client who purchased a White Cedar 9.5 inch Magnum Claw. He was amazed by the action versus a Jake or even the Red Cedar models he got from me. Type of wood really is relevant to what you are going to do with the bait. I build flat sided casting lures from Oak and Cherry wood and it holds the paint and finish great and also twitches great. My Oak twitchers in 6.75 inch and 7.5 inch really kick out nice when ripped , pulled or twitched. The lighter Cedar ones dont do that they come at you straight. However those troll better as they have to fight to stay down. So in short I build baits from 4 types of wood. Red Cedar, Eastern White Cedar, Oak and Cherry. I have good luck with all of them . I have not seen one wood do it all yet.Mike
Edited by Kingfisher 5/23/2013 11:15 PM
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Posts: 10
| Kingfisher
Thanks for the information, I live in Northeastern Wi, near Marinette, I have a abundance of all the wood that you mentioned except the red cedar. I always spend too much time on filling and sanding the maple. I will have to try the white Cedar again it's just that I have trouble with the grain, maybe if I seal it with etex first than sand. The lure I turn is 8" and with the lip 10" gets down to 30' with 100' out. I checked out your site and you really get into some big lures. Great lookng site also.I guess it's back to the drawing board on wood type. I really appreciate the information I won't stop until I get this right. Maube I am too fusey. Again Thanks
ravenlures
Wayne |
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Location: South-Central PA | I use red cedar for cranks and topwater and maple for gliders.
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| Gliders, I use Maple and Mahogany.
Flat sided cranks, Cedar, CA Redwood. The lighter woods with the tightest grain that I can find. |
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Location: Oregon | Mahogany for gliders if you can find the real stuff, not the light crummy african stuff that weighs half as much. Maple is my second choice. Poplar works really well for some gliders too........you just have to test it and see.
Jed |
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Posts: 235
| I use alot of Poplar but you have to make sure its sealed really well. Like Woodie said it will swell like a baseball bat if water gets in. I seal, prime, paint, detail, and then I put on 3 coats of Etex. Not saying this won't fail in time but I've been using this for many years and haven't had any complaints. Its EZ to work with and won't split like some woods. Just my opinion. To each their own for one reason or another. Good luck and enjoy this fine hobby. |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | RiverMan - 5/28/2013 9:32 PM
Mahogany for gliders if you can find the real stuff, not the light crummy african stuff that weighs half as much. Maple is my second choice. Poplar works really well for some gliders too........you just have to test it and see.
Jed
This is a real good piece of advice. That crap at Menards has is nothing like
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/hondur...
This was the stuff they built boats out of in the 40's and 50's Lokes were made from Honduran Magogany
Menards carries that light fuzzy crap . Its not the same wood. |
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Posts: 743
| Kingfisher - 5/24/2013 12:11 AM
I once went on a mission to build a hardwood(tooth proof) Slasher trolling crank. It failed. I used Oak, Maple and Cherry and really had a hard time catching fish on the lures until I went to Cedar. Cedar trolling baits get tore up because they get Bit a lot more. Hard woods really work great for lures that the fisherman has to move by jerking, ripping twitching etc. Lighter woods like Balsa and Cedar move so much better trolled. My White Cedar is like Balsa its so light. I just got a call back from a Client who purchased a White Cedar 9.5 inch Magnum Claw. He was amazed by the action versus a Jake or even the Red Cedar models he got from me. Type of wood really is relevant to what you are going to do with the bait. I build flat sided casting lures from Oak and Cherry wood and it holds the paint and finish great and also twitches great. My Oak twitchers in 6.75 inch and 7.5 inch really kick out nice when ripped , pulled or twitched. The lighter Cedar ones dont do that they come at you straight. However those troll better as they have to fight to stay down. So in short I build baits from 4 types of wood. Red Cedar, Eastern White Cedar, Oak and Cherry. I have good luck with all of them . I have not seen one wood do it all yet.Mike
Mike, How can you tell what wood the Magnums are made of? I got a half dozen or so and get so confused.
How's my order coming?
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | I think all of yours are Casting models made of Cherry. I add the type of wood now under the date when asked to do so. I just started making them out of White Cedar this year so I had to start Identifying them. Your mag Little Claws are in the paint room. Pretty soon. Mike |
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| Quick question, do you need to seal the cedar blanks and if so, what do you seal them with. Thank you |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | Yes you should seal any wood. I seal all our Cedar blanks with ZAR sanding sealer. This stuff soaks in good and sands smooth. Kilz also works good for big baits but leaves brush marks so it requires sanding as well.
A lot depends on what type of paint you use. Dont use water based sealer if you are priming and painting with solvent based paint. You can paint water based paint over any primer or sealer but not the reverse. Solvent based paint will melt water based sealer and wrinkle it up.
I paint with Createx paints so I use ZAR AND KILZ. Both work great for what we do. Mike |
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| Kilz alone good enough for a sealer?
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| I use Sherwood Homo-Clad for a sealer for my paints. It's the only stuff that I found for lacquer based paints. One problem...it only comes in 5 gallon buckets.
I got hold of some good Mahogany about 5 years ago. It's Honduran and heavy. Some guy with a mill died and his kid was selling it by the box. Right place at a bad time I guess, but it will have to wait until I'm finished with my Redwood, then it will be Mahogany Perkettes. It's tough on a saw blade too.
Edited by Beaver 3/16/2015 8:51 PM
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Location: West Virginia | I have been using poplar for gliders, twitch baits, and cranks for about 5 years. I have had no issues with it if you take the right precautions. Soak in sanding sealer then 2 coats of Etex. Prime, paint then 3 coats of Etex to finish. |
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Posts: 321
Location: Glen Ellyn Il | For my glide baits I like to use maple, red oak and also PVC Azek deck board, when I use PVC deck board I install 1/2 hard wood dowel pins, does not sound like a good choice but it really makes the glide baits come alive. I build my muskie size bomber out of poplar, those are turned on a lathe. Crank baits I use red cedar, bass wood, I really like to work with bass wood and I also build twitch baits and some crank baits from balsa wood which is readily available. Balsa baits have the most action they get banged up a little but easily repaired
For sealing I use Devcon 2ton 30 minutes thinned down with denatured alcohol, for balsa I use Propionate and one of my favored sealer that the saltwater guys use is Deft Lacquer sanding sealer, that is not easily available, I order mine 4 quarts at the time from Amazon, sometimes Lowes has it. I like Deft because it dries in 30 minutes and easily sand able. I do use water based paints and so far I have not had any problem with the paint due to the lacquer base sealer I clear coat my baits with the following Flex Coat, Devcon 2ton 30 minutes, E-tex and also I used in the past Home Depot Parks super glaze and I think it's better than e-tex I had some stuff that was over 3 years old and it still was good, was stored in the basement in a cabinet
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Posts: 115
| How come it seems that no one uses pine?? I had a little 2 foot piece of #2 grade 1x4 laying around and decided to make some blanks out of it. It seems about the same density as cedar, but it is much nicer to work with so far. It doesnt chip when i use the router and drill holes in it and it seems to sand much easier and smoother. Maybe my cedar just sucks?? Im using those boards from menards that are 1 side rough sawn 3 sides smooth. |
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Location: NE Ohio | my go to jerk bait glider type is made by LUNGE LUMBER lures and called a PROWLER. its made from red oak and i end up with many teeth broke off and stuck in the lure that stay there for a long time. i really don't think you can make a wooden bait that is "TOOTH PROOF". hickory maybe, i think its the hardest US wood. can't comment on exotic woods like they make goose and turkey calls out of for hardness. |
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Location: Money, PA | If you're looking for "tooth proof", I wouldn't use wood period. |
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| cedar. |
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Posts: 556
| Cedar--- and WOOD LURES are just plain Cool and seem to work better than the cheap plastic or resin stuff---I have made lures from poured resin and Wood---Guys just seem to like anything made out of wood better than other materials. I also will almost always fish a wood lure--but have used and caught fish on plastics. |
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| i once tried to make a glider out of lignum vitae...didnt go so well... couldnt keep the screw eyes from snapping. the wood that sinks and requires no lead and kills steel.. |
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Posts: 455
| IPE sinks as well. It would take years for Muskies to chew a bait made of that stuff. |
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Location: Minnesota. | Hmmm, I just made my first few Suicks this winter. First attempt at making baits. I didn't care if they were pretty or not.
I made a couple out of Butternut b/c I like the color also the hardness of the wood. Sort of between hard and soft...we'll see.
I also made one out of Cherry and another from Sugar Maple (hard Maple!) and left all of them bare wood. Maybe I'll go and seal them with Etex or even sanding sealer to prevent water absorption.
I have a good friend who's older Suicks work best totally unpainted and naturally colored. They're worn out! Think "Old Sting" from years back...
I'll report back in the winter, post season.
Jeremy. |
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Location: Money, PA | esox911 - 3/21/2015 5:07 PM
Cedar--- and WOOD LURES are just plain Cool and seem to work better than the cheap plastic or resin stuff---I have made lures from poured resin and Wood---Guys just seem to like anything made out of wood better than other materials. I also will almost always fish a wood lure--but have used and caught fish on plastics.
This is the exact type of ignorance that fuels the ole adage that "wood is better"...I have been making baits for a long time and fishing with various lures much longer (25+yrs). So I don't want to sound like I'm blowing smoke out my arse, like so many others do on the net, I speak from experience. Do I hate wood lures?? Absolutely NOT...there are certainly many great lures on the market and custom made out there today for sure! However, comments like "CHEAP" plastic or resin is simply shear ignorance and crazy. IMO there are not many cranks on the market which do what my baits do...action wise, depth capacity vs. body size and above all shear durability; AND they are made from that "cheap" resin....LOL
Wood or Plastic...they ALL have their place, but with the plastics of today and how far technology has come, thinking you cannot achieve the natural wood properties with today's plastics is just ignorant....One important thing for me as a lure maker is the fact that I can achieve total consistency with my process, that I know NO wood producing lure maker out there can achieve. FACT.
I used to work for a very well known lure maker who uses cedar....great baits without a doubt. But most good anglers know that to reach that "next level" of whatever you do, you pay attention to every little detail in everything from how your baits are tuned to knowing your electronics...these are the few things that separate good from great....When making those cedar wood baits, I would hand select the ones I knew were going to be the good runners...And out of about every ten or so baits, you would get 2 which met my specs for what I wanted. You just cannot control the weight of wood, its density or buoyancy...I have found that happy medium for my liking and can produce that over and over and over again with in micros of weight which is the beauty of plastics....Cuz when its all said and done, its simply about one thing.....Catching fish!
Edited by ShutUpNFish 3/23/2015 8:27 AM
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| I have to agree with ShutUpNFish Wood and plastic have there place in the manufactoring of a lure, and I have fished both. I use Cedar because that fits my ways of making my lures best, I could make them out of plastic and that would come if I needed a big quantity of lures. I keep my inventory for what I need to supply my customers. And yes each lure has its own way in the water I try my best to make all my lures the same, but when doing sanding by hand its hard. I am always testing lures by myself and have a few guys that test for me. My hats off to the small lure maker he works and enjoys what he is doing, but the pay is nothing near what I made before I retired. |
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| It is so not about one thing. If you have been fishing 25 years you should know that. If it was just about catching fish everybody would troll. Everybody would fish LSC only. People like to do things a certain way. Some people only fish Topwater others only cast or troll. Certain people only troll wood because that's what they like. I have been fishing 25 years for muskie myself. Five states and two provinces. Wood only for me please. |
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Posts: 455
| That's not to say plastic or resin is bad. I have fish up to 54" on resin and 53 1/2" on plastic. Just that most of my favorites are wood. The older plastic and resin stuff I used to like have since gone out of business or changed manufactures. For most people who are not professional lure manufacturers wood is just easier to make basement lures out of. That's what most wood lures start out as and hence this thread in basement bait area. |
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Location: Money, PA | There you go again throwing out comments which are obviously and absolutely false showing your lack of experience in lure building IMO...
" For most people who are not professional lure manufacturers wood is just easier to make basement lures out of. "
Totally untrue - and so I'm done debating cluelessness. |
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| What is better resin or plastic? What's the diff?
Edited by MRichardson 3/30/2015 8:21 AM
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Location: Money, PA | I don't know what is "better" Mike...I guess it all depends on what you are looking for in a bait and the process in which you produce them. According to feel, I think true injected plastic would be more indestructible...if you are trying to achieve less density and more buoyancy, I'd say resin....Overall though, the best material is the one which gets your bait to the point of satisfactory levels for yourself, your customers and above all, the fish.
Edited by ShutUpNFish 3/30/2015 12:18 PM
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| Paul, well that was actually kind of a rhetorical question meant to amuse you. I do though appreciate you consistently coming to the defense of plastic. It’s a hard battle to fight with so few of us making baits that way. There will always be some fanboy praising wood baits and giving accolades to the craftsmanship involved with following a line on a jigsaw, and when all else fails out comes the “magic” card lol. For me the resin and plastic terms are synonymous. I guess I do know what the perceived difference is, the terminology just bugs me personally lol. So for the record: a “resin” (thermoset) bait is a two part plastic that is mixed together, poured into a mold, goes through an exothermic reaction, and then is set and cannot be melted again. Typically a urethane material is used. A plastic (thermoplastic) bait is made from little pellets that are melted through heat and injected into a mold. The lightest density I’ve molded solid “plastic” baits is equal to cedar. I can mold “resin” baits at a density of balsa. I make wood baits too, but for me, “plastics make it possible” Some things you just can't do in wood
Edited by MRichardson 3/30/2015 1:30 PM
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Posts: 455
| That sounds just like something I would do in my basement. |
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Posts: 455
| The problem is bad plastic lures have been released on the market and people have been burned. That's not to say your products are bad. That is the reason plastic gets a bad rap sometimes. To simply imply that anyone who fishes wood baits is a fool using inferior materials is a bit tiring to listen to. |
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Location: Minnesota. | My biggest complaint re those plastic baits is with the paint not holding up on them. I fished a particularly popular bait for just a few weeks last summer and took a handful of pike and a few muskies on her and you can't tell what the paint pattern was anymore.
Pity, that bait is a fav.! |
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Posts: 348
| I must say I moved over to resign with the help of Paul F an I couldn't be happier.Everybait runs exactly the same.The fish don't know a plastic bait from a wood one.I can still achieve all the same characteristics of a wood lure.Theres nothing more frustrating than knocking out 20 good blanks to only find 3 perform like you want an all the time an hard work lost along the way.Very frustrating.Resign speeds up the process an now I am able to keep up with demand.I see why big lure companies go to it everyones going that route phantom suicks.I haven't seen any drop off from fish reactions or catches going to it.To be honest with you have a family an young children if I wouldn't had an issue with wood down the road I would have went to it at some point to help spped the process up so I can still enjoy building yet having my family time.Like they say don't knock it till you try it you may surprise yourself. |
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| wood,plastic, aluminum,lexan....this new toy i picked up should work em all. (once i learn how to use it that is).
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Location: Money, PA | muskyrat - 3/30/2015 5:16 PM
The problem is bad plastic lures have been released on the market and people have been burned. That's not to say your products are bad. That is the reason plastic gets a bad rap sometimes. To simply imply that anyone who fishes wood baits is a fool using inferior materials is a bit tiring to listen to.
Really? I totally believe you, however, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that exactly what you're talking about has happened more-so with wood over the course of baitmaking history and as of recent alike...so what is your point exactly? You keep making these false claims based on what? could it possibly be your 1 bad experience? Or your strict devotion to wood? LOL No pun intended seriously!
And for the record, I NEVER said wood was "no good" or especially that anyone is a fool for using it; you fabricated that insinuation up....I have actually continuously said that wood is just another good material to make baits out of, but you sir, obviously lack the capacity to listen, comprehend or learn. You have made claims that plastic is junky or somehow inferior to wood, which I continuously keep trying to explain why your are totally incorrect. Pretty simple...Everyone obviously has their own preferences and thats great, but if someone is going to refuse to use lures just because they are not made from wood, through shear ignorance and uninformed views, thats quite simply your sad loss because there are many great, proven and effective baits out on the market today which I could care less what the Hell they are made of...they possess just those attributes because they are that well designed by mindful craftsmen not because they are made of wood!
And YES, I design, create and manufacture my baits in my basement!
OK, done here...
Edited by ShutUpNFish 3/31/2015 7:43 AM
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| mnmusky - 3/31/2015 7:13 AM wood,plastic, aluminum,lexan....this new toy i picked up should work em all. (once i learn how to use it that is). Sweet! Trade you design time for machine time? |
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| MRichardson - 3/31/2015 8:31 AM
mnmusky - 3/31/2015 7:13 AM wood,plastic, aluminum,lexan....this new toy i picked up should work em all. (once i learn how to use it that is). Sweet! Trade you design time for machine time?
Pm me your number Mike..we'll see what this thing can do.
4th axis will be installed by the summer. |
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Posts: 1529
| I build wood and foam urethanes. cnc molds can give a creative edge at a cost. wood is more labour intensive. after 30 years building painting whatever gets bit is best..that day. as for above post paint fail on plastic. that manufacturer needs its painter to learn basics. |
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