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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | Please see below, Anybody know how to get this out? Please see Pic
4 Stroke 2004 Johnson 9.9 (Carb) stays running at high idle, seems to run fine. As soon as I lower idle she dies. If I keep her running at high idle for 15 mins and VERY slowly lower idle she stays running (not great, but runs). Once she warms up, and I shut her off and start her up, she still dies if I lower the idle fast.
She has new plugs and new fuel filter.
I take very good care of the fuel, have a water separator and the gas is fresh.
I think its the carb, but I am no mechanic
Any help would be appreciated.
thanks, Rob
Edited by muskyhunter34 4/15/2013 5:09 PM
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Posts: 134
| Get the outboard hot and adjust your idle screw would be my first thought. |
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
Yep...carb. Sounds like a slow speed needle needs to be adjusted a little.
In most cases with a carbed motor, there will be a horizontal needle just above the carb bowl that is notched for a screwdriver. This adjusts the fuel/air mixture for smooth running, idle, etc.
To adjust, get the motor warm first. Get it down to your low idle, then adjust the carb 1/4 turn inward...in a couple of seconds you should hear a change in how the motor sounds. Might get worse, might get better. Idle might go up a little, and if it does, you are probably on the right track. If it gets worse, turn it out 1/2 turn as that will take you 1/4 turn past where you started.
Keep adjusting little by little until you get the motor running smoothly. This should hopefully take care of the problem.
Steve |
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Posts: 163
Location: lake st clair michigan | i would also suggest running some seafoam in with the fuel ......could be varnish build up in the carb ...might be time for a carb rebuild |
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | Thanks Guys,
I am currently running sea foam through it, but the problem is still going on. I had the carb rebuilt last season.
God this is annoying
-Rob |
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Posts: 134
| Just be aware that idle screw and air screw 2 different animals....CHECK YOUR MANUAL WHICH ONE IS WHICH!! Turning air/mix screw in will lean the outboard out which can "lock it up" Im no mechanic but know the basics and im in bergen county.. Pm me if ya need some genral direction. |
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Posts: 134
| I take that back...4got about the 4stroke element...VMS sounds pretty spot on in the thumper world. |
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Posts: 51
| Clean main and pilot jets. Soak them in carb cleaner. I won't waste my time doing anything else.
Nick |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | VMS is spot on,
I had this exact same problem too and that fixed it.
The only other thing I will add is like others have said it could be varnish.
Mix up a strong dose of Sea Foam (which is carb cleaner), get the motor running to get the sollution into the carb. Turn it off and let it soak a day or two. Then try it again.
But then you need to run it harder to flush everything out.
Good Luck |
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | The other option to get a really good deep cleaning is to get a can of sea foam that is pressurized.
Remove the air box so you have access to the carb throat after bringing the motor up to temperature. Then, perform the following:
1. Set your motor to high idle
2. spray sea foam directly into the carb throat in short spurts. The motor will start to sputter and blow white smoke.
3. After about 2 - 3 minutes of short spurts, start a continuous spray into the carb until the motor kills. Continue to spray more into the carb for a short time.
4. Let the motor sit for 30 minutes to an hour.
5. Take the motor out and run it clean. You will have a bunch of white smoke to begin with, but it will burn off in short order.
6. When you are all done, replace the spark plugs. At times, this procedure can kill a plug due to all of the carbon you are burning out. Easy, cheap, and is good insurance.
This should get at gunk in the carb as well as clear out any build-up in the combustion chambers.
You may want to try this first before adjusting the needle screw. If it just a touch of varnish, this should take care of that...
Steve
Edited by VMS 4/14/2013 7:07 AM
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Posts: 1095
Location: Hayward, WI | Spraying cleaner down throat of carb does nothing to clean the carb, it goes straight into the combustion chamber. If adjusting idle mix doesn't work, have the carb cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner. |
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Posts: 5874
| Lots of guys had problems with this motor trying to idle down to troll for walleyes. I'm thinking this carb may not have the idle air mixture screws, and have caps in their place. I seem to recall these motors ran rich at low idle, and an Evinrude tech had drilled a very small hole in the throttle plate(butterfly).
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | There is a cap over the air mixture needle. Does anybody know how to get this out. Don't really want to drill it out.
Thanks, Rob
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 carb.jpg (106KB - 1175 downloads)
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Your only choice is to drill it out, had a 2003 and the same problem. But was always fixed with a good cleaning at the dealership.
Troy |
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Heck...you have it out...rebuild it. Get all the orifices cleaned well, and put her back together...
The motor is out of warranty...I'd be tempted to drill out the plug
Steve |
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Posts: 5874
| muskyhunter34 - 4/15/2013 4:50 PM
There is a cap over the air mixture needle. Does anybody know how to get this out. Don't really want to drill it out.
Thanks, Rob
Like I said. A cap on there. I don't know if there is an adjustment screw under there or not. I'll try to find the name of the tech that worked on hundreds of these with the exact same problem at the PWT and FLW walleye tourneys. He could advise on what he did.
Maybe TJ Devoe recalls his name?
Otherwise, drill a small hole in the cap, and thread a sheet metal screw in it, and try to pull the cap out. At best, it will come out and reveal an adjustment screw. At worst, you'll mess it up, and maybe have to find a replacement carb, hopefully with an adjustment screw. Try Twin City Outboards, I think it is. They have used outboards.
Edited by Shep 4/16/2013 8:28 AM
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | The schematic via Evinrude shows an adjustment screw in that position. The schematic does not show a plug for the end of it, which I find very wierd. I will look at a suzuki schematic (if I can find one) to see if that has anything else to help out as the 4 stroke johnsons were suzuki engine designs.
I would think at worst it is a plug installed with a needle on the end, which could then be replaced with a normal needle and screw.
Steve |
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Posts: 5874
| Part of the government clean air act to put those caps on to prevent adjusting the air/fuel mixture. But I bet this motor is actually doing the exact opposite, and running rich.
What do the plugs look like? |
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | Shep,
Plugs look normal to me, just a little carbed up. I just put new ones in a few weeks ago, but this problem existed before and after plug installation.
I think you are right saying it is running rich, because if I manually pull the choke out and/or loosen the jet screw a quarter turn, she runs better. So, in my mind she is in need of air, i.e. too much gas.
Yeah, if you could find the guy who worked on a bunch of these that would be fantastic.
Thanks for your help.
And just a side note, VMS (Steve) has been helping me out a ton. He really knows his stuff and is eager to help out.
-Rob
Edited by muskyhunter34 4/16/2013 4:46 PM
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Posts: 1285
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | If it runs better with choke partially closed, it's running too lean. Shep is spot on for removal of plug, These are commonly called welch plugs and are installed to prevent tampering with the mixture screw behind it. Make your adjustment after removing the plug and don't worry about reinstalling it. |
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Posts: 5874
| So, there is still an adjustment screw there? I know on some auto carbs, there was, and some were just plugged.
Also, some will increase the throttle opening with the choke. Not sure if this was does or not. Everyone I ever saw ran rich at low idle, when hot.
Yes, and Steve is a great guy and helps many. especially when it comes to Props.
Edited by Shep 4/17/2013 4:04 PM
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | Do not drill it out. Use an EZ Out. Drill a small hole in the plug, insert correct sized EZ Out and turn. It will come out like a screw. No problem. |
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | Thanks to all that helped me, wound up taking it to a mechanic, drilled out cap, found some gunk, cleaned gunk = she runs great.
-Rob |
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Posts: 5874
| Was there an adjustment behind that cap? |
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | yes, just a tamper proof plug on top so you cant mess with it.
-Rob |
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Posts: 260
Location: Almost Heaven | Glad to here you got it working and all the good posts. I am going to add a line here about the carb adjustment and my 9.9. When i put the muffs on and adjusted the air mixture it was running great. When i put the boat in the water it would not idle. I pulled the cowl and turned the air screw just slightly and it idled like it was supposed to. Mine needed to be richened a little bit. Muffs and putting the boat in the water sometimes will have an affect on your motor running right. Just remember that if you have a similar problem. |
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | yes, good point, thanks to all.
Rob |
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