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| At the Marinette county Spring Conservation Congress meeting "retired DNR warden Mike Kitt presented 2 resolutions to reinstate northern pike ice spearing on Wisconsin and Michigan boundary waters as well as select waters in Wisconsin", per the Peshtigo Times news paper. Proposal read "Years ago Wisconsin DNR deliberately chose to end the mutual agreement to have an ice season for spearing northern pike on Wisconsin/Michigan boundary waters. Michigan relucantly agreed to change their traditional rule so it would not cause angler confusion and create enforcement issues. Neither state has since offered biological data to support significant negative spearing concerns for pike or other game fish species that these waters are primarily managed for. Michigan would like to reinstate boundary water spearing." According to Kitt, "there is little mortality in the sport, it is ethical and done inside shanties with holes measuring 2 1/2 feet by 5 feet". Here is a like to the article. http://www.peshtigotimes.net/?id=21646
I just thought others might find it interesting that now it is starting in Wisconsin also.
Kevin |
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Location: Smith Creek | "little mortality" eh?
Minnesota says there's excessive mortality from hooking and releasing a fish, Michigan says there's little mortality from sticking a spear in one. |
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| Spear and release fishing??
I do think that there are quite a few lakes where some pike harvest would be a good thing, but I'm not sure more of spearing of anything by anyone is a good idea at the moment. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I was asked about this the other night in Kewaunee, but didn't really have enough information to comment with any degree of intelligence. The only thing I can say is that *if* the pike and musky share the same spawning grounds, and *if* the pike fry are there when the musky hatch, then from everything I've read the musky fry become pike chow. That being said however, I freely admit there are several potential issues with this sort of thing in Green Bay. Do the pike and musky spawn on the same habitat, for one thing? Is there any appreciable degree of successful muskellunge spawning at this point? Obviously there is some, as they have found a few YOY fingerlings in the Fall sampling effort--but I haven't heard about anything more than that. Another question is how robust is the pike population in the bay system? I simply don't know, although I have heard from several folks that they are more prevalent than they used to be 10-20 years ago.
How was that resolution received over there? That article didn't seem to say. I'll see if I can go dig through the CC results, but I didn't see any such information last night when I checked.
TB
EDIT: No county resolutions available yet on the CC website.
Edited by tcbetka 4/11/2013 7:01 PM
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Not having an opinion here, but could the phrase "little mortality" mean there are (or were at the time) so few people doing it that it has a low impact on the overall fishery?
Steve
Edited by VMS 4/11/2013 9:10 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I guess you'd really need to know what sort of population estimates they have for the pike population in the bay system, and I've never even heard that number. I suppose a person could always call the biologist listed in that article. I've never met her, but she should be able to give a person at least some idea of the potential impact on the fishery.
TB
EDIT: No numbers given here, but as of a year ago the population was apparently thought to be declining.
http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedsta...
Edited by tcbetka 4/11/2013 10:37 PM
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Ummmm, the spearers pound the crap out of the big fish and it's not even funny. If you value your pike resource and don't want those waters to become hammer handle factories I'd say something about it. This is probably the first step in them getting a foot-hold into WI waters as well. You see what the indians do to your waters, the same thing will happen to your pike fishery. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well obviously someone would have thought about that thought, right? There's no way you could ever let only larger fish be taken. I'll agree with that--for just the reason you mentioned. Last Monday night was the first I'd heard of this whole thing though, and the resolution isn't published online yet. So I've not had the chance to read how it is written.
Certainly though, you have a valid concern.
TB |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | OK, I got some more information this morning. The resolution was indeed introduced in Marinette County, but the results are still not yet published. So I called down to Madison, and they simply haven't gotten all the citizens' resolutions for all 72 counties. So the results aren't likely to be available until the middle or latter part of next week.
That being said I was able to talk with the biologist in attendance at the Marinette County last week. She confirmed that this resolution would only apply to spearing in the boundary waters, meaning (in this area) the Menomonee River from the bay of Green Bay, up along the WI/MI border. But there are no recent population estimates for pike in much of this area, so it won't really be possible to know how much impact something like this would have.
So I guess we'll simply have to wait for the results of that resolution to be published, and then take it from there. Personally, I'd need much more information to form an opinion as to how much risk to muskellunge this might represent. But I can certainly understand the initial reactions to this proposal...
TB |
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Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | This is how I am looking at the situation. The Dark house association is getting a good foot hold on this spearing thing. They are getting closer and closer to being able to spear the lakes that they would like to spear. As of right now, there is no threat to the Musky... HOWEVER. This is just going to be used as a stepping stool to eventually go in and spear muskies for the dark house guys. If we give an inch they WILL take a mile. We need to tread softly on this issue. One wrong step and we may shoot ourselves in the foot.
Don't think for one second that spearing muskies is not on their goal list, becuase it is. I have talked with a few different guys that say they would spear muskies if they could. In MN if they start lifting the spearing ban on lakes then we should all be very worried about our fishery...Getting new waters to spear is just another way for them to get in the door and one step closer to taking big fish aka muskies. This is not a small issue and shouldn't be treated as one |
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| FAT-SKI - 4/12/2013 11:16 AM
This is how I am looking at the situation. The Dark house association is getting a good foot hold on this spearing thing. They are getting closer and closer to being able to spear the lakes that they would like to spear. As of right now, there is no threat to the Musky... HOWEVER. This is just going to be used as a stepping stool to eventually go in and spear muskies for the dark house guys. If we give an inch they WILL take a mile. We need to tread softly on this issue. One wrong step and we may shoot ourselves in the foot.
Don't think for one second that spearing muskies is not on their goal list, becuase it is. I have talked with a few different guys that say they would spear muskies if they could. In MN if they start lifting the spearing ban on lakes then we should all be very worried about our fishery...Getting new waters to spear is just another way for them to get in the door and one step closer to taking big fish aka muskies. This is not a small issue and shouldn't be treated as one
Not to mention the fact that people spearing muskies illegally while out pike spearing is already more common than I used to think it was (maybe some of you guys are more aware of it than I am). Two years ago, I was talking to a guy I know that has a cabin up north (I forget the lake name) who was pretty proud of the 53 inch muskie he had speared and eaten the winter beforehand. I gave him a piece of my mind on the issue, but I'd be hardpressed to believe he stopped doing it. I'm sure there are others doing it as well.
It's a lot easier to pull off when they can just claim they're pike spearing to any doubters who question it. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well, I guess that if the resolution was voted down in Marinette County last Monday, then it's a non-issue...because it won't move forward in the CC process. So then there's nothing to discuss, was my point. In the meantime though, I was simply trying to get more information about the topic in general--because I know very little (if anything) about spearing pike through the ice or otherwise. I know it is done in Michigan, and in Minnesota last I heard.
I understand your points though, and appreciate your input. You've obviously spoken to more people than I have on the matter.
TB |
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Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | We all just need to help eachother out on this one for not just MN and WI but any musky fishery. Anytime anyone hears something, that person should let the rest of us know. We are much stronger as a group than as indaviduals. I belive in MN there is something like 17,000 people in the dark house assoc. I also think there is something close to 100,000 Musky fisherman. (not sure if that number is just MN or MN and WI) But those numbers are so unequal that you would think we have this war in the bag... It is just not turning out that way, or so it seems.
So to all of you musky obbsessed addicts out there... Stick together, if we act as one, we will be treated as one. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | FAT-SKI - 4/12/2013 1:44 PM
But those numbers are so unequal that you would think we have this war in the bag...
Dark-House Spearing Pike is a Hoot! ... been doing it since i was a kid. keep going at it with the "war" mentality and let me know how you do. |
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Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | jonnysled - 4/12/2013 1:53 PM
FAT-SKI - 4/12/2013 1:44 PM
But those numbers are so unequal that you would think we have this war in the bag...
Dark-House Spearing Pike is a Hoot! ... been doing it since i was a kid. keep going at it with the "war" mentality and let me know how you do.
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Sled we all know where this will eventually go. I'm not saying all dark house guys are bad, or every single one of them wants to spear muskies... But the fact is, that the few spearers that do, put a bulls eye on the rest of the sport and sportsman. Here in MN it IS a political war. If I don't keep this mentality I might as well roll over and let the darks house association have their way with me.
I don't think it should be illegal. just regulated. But an agreeemnt needs to be reached, not everyone is a golden child. But there are guys out there currently that spear and kill muskies, and there always will be. Now associations are pushing to get more waters, and eventually they will make a push to spear muskies. It is enevidable, maybe not this year, or next year or even five years from now. But at some point the push will be made, and the musky guys will need to stand together as one to make sure that doesn't happen.
Edited by FAT-SKI 4/12/2013 2:52 PM
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| wether or not there is a depletion in the resource or not it doesnt matter to the state they will never ban spearing because they want the money! |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | jonnysled - 4/12/2013 11:53 AM
Dark-House Spearing Pike is a Hoot! ... been doing it since i was a kid. keep going at it with the "war" mentality and let me know how you do.
Yes it is. So was shooting buffalo from the train.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | shooting into a buffalo heard doesn't sound like all that much fun.
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 4/12/2013 7:52 PM
shooting into a buffalo heard doesn't sound like all that much fun.
Neither does spearing pike. To each their own.
Not sure I get the not wanting trolling to protect the resource gig, and then turning around and saying spearing pike is a hoot.  |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Pike travis ... Pike ... a harvest fish. we eat them ... you should try catching some and eat them yourself. they taste better than walleyes.
show me your pictures of your 40-50" pike you catch in Wisconsin ... if we had a lake that could consistently produce them then yah, it would make sense to protect those, but it's Wisconsin, not Saskatchewan.
you're an abyssmologist ... tell me we have that kind of fishery to support your claim.
i would venture to guess we are on as big a pike as you could catch here and yah, we do run into some mid-40's and i believe we will catch one close to 4 feet in the coming winters but that's an isolated situation. most lakes would be 22-28's and plenty of them.
Edited by jonnysled 4/12/2013 8:06 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Muskies taste like pike... 
Large pike are as rare in WI as muskies are. I'd venture to say more rare. So why not protect them? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | large muskies are far from rare ... not minnesota large maybe (Vermillion/Bemidji/Mille Lacs), but if you aren't catching some big fish in Wisconsin and you're putting in the time, maybe you should change lakes or change your tactics, or get a GPS and figure your lakes out.
getting skunked sucks ... come fishin' w/me this year sometime.
Edited by jonnysled 4/12/2013 8:12 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 4/12/2013 8:11 PM
large muskies are far from rare ... not minnesota large maybe (Vermillion/Bemidji/Mille Lacs), but if you aren't catching some big fish in Wisconsin and you're putting in the time, maybe you should change lakes or change your tactics, or get a GPS and figure your lakes out.
getting skunked sucks ... come fishin' w/me this year sometime.
You missed my point. I didn't say large muskies are rare. I said large pike are as rare as muskies. Meaning why should it be ok to keep/spear large pike when it is not ok to keep any muskie due to the reasoning of muskies are not as abundant as other fish. Ultimately that is the reason we try so hard to protect muskies. There are few of them, and it takes them a long time to grow big. Takes even longer to get big muskies when the little ones are harvested. Hmmm, I wonder if we could have more large pike in WI if maybe the little ones were let to grow big. Places that have big pike treat them like we treat muskies. You could try learning from those places.
Edited by CiscoKid 4/12/2013 8:34 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | show me your large pike ...
what is "large" to you??
if you would have read then you would have seen where i wrote "if we had a lake that could consistently produce them then yah, it would make sense to protect those, but it's Wisconsin, not Saskatchewan." |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 4/12/2013 8:08 PM
Large pike are as rare in WI as muskies are. I'd venture to say more rare. So why not protect them?
there is zero protection for them now. i'm a proponent for a slot on pike so that we could catch more in the low-mid-30's. how big could they grow?? until a slot on hook and line or on the ice is determined we'll never know.
cold water limits this far down there isn't much in the way of what i'd call fertile ground for what i'd consider "large", and why they aren't managed and considered essentially a harvest fish ... i would imagine.
Edited by jonnysled 4/12/2013 8:50 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | The muskies in WI don't consistently get as big as the muskies in MN, and by your reasoning (WI pike vs. Saskatchewan pike) that means they should be a harvest fish for us. 
Iowa muskies don't consistently get as big as WI muskies so that means they should be a harvest fish for them.
You have some funny arguments. Most would argue we need higher size limits and need to protect the fish to allow them to get larger. You...argue we don't need to protect them because there are none big enough that are worth protecting.
What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Edited by CiscoKid 4/12/2013 8:54 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | By the way I am glad to see this got shot down where it was proposed. Pretty sure two years ago this was coming up, but luckily there were enough of us that caught wind of it and expressed our concerns to our reps before it went too far.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Iowa fish don't get as big as WI. fish?? do they know they are from Iowa?? sounds like you need to see some pictures of Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, Tennesse and Kentucky slobs travis.
so, is the Iowa argument one of my "funny" ones or one of your feeble attempts?? i don't remember talking about Iowa or muskies.
i thought the thread was about WI/MI and Pike ... and then your inability to find and catch big fish because they are so rare.
Edited by jonnysled 4/12/2013 9:05 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 4/12/2013 8:48 PM
The muskies in WI don't consistently get as big as the muskies in MN, and by your reasoning (WI pike vs. Saskatchewan pike ) that means they should be a harvest fish for us.
Iowa muskies don't consistently get as big as WI muskies so that means they should be a harvest fish for them.
You have some funny arguments. Most would argue we need higher size limits and need to protect the fish to allow them to get larger. You...argue we don't need to protect them because there are none big enough that are worth protecting.
What came first, the chicken or the egg?
by what reasoning??
are my "arguments" by default what you say that i said or what i actually type??
i love it when you get all jazzed up and flail ... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 4/12/2013 8:36 PM
show me your large pike ...
what is "large" to you??
if you would have read then you would have seen where i wrote "if we had a lake that could consistently produce them then yah, it would make sense to protect those, but it's Wisconsin, not Saskatchewan."
jonnysled
by what reasoning??
are my "arguments" by default what you say that i said or what i actually type??.
Based on this, what you actually type.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 4/12/2013 9:01 PM
Based on this, what you actually type.
Iowa?? LOL ... LOL
i'm assuming you are aware of what it takes to grow big pike, truly big pike and therefore the Saskatchewan reference. i want to go there sometime!
I'm glad you are back Travis ...
you coming with me on opener then? i'll take your picture and then we can post it with you and a bunch a muskies. next year i'll get you a bunch of decent wisconsin ice-pike but you'll have to wear a blindfold on the way to the lake. you can bring your kids, they would love it.
Edited by jonnysled 4/12/2013 9:20 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | CiscoKid - 4/12/2013 8:51 PM
By the way I am glad to see this got shot down where it was proposed. Pretty sure two years ago this was coming up, but luckily there were enough of us that caught wind of it and expressed our concerns to our reps before it went too far.
Did it get shot down Travis? I called down to the CC office in Madison today, but was told me that the results wouldn't be available until at least next Wednesday or so--and I haven't gotten any feedback from those who were there. So do you know how it turned out?
TB |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | tcbetka - 4/12/2013 11:37 AM
Well, I guess that if the resolution was voted down in Marinette County last Monday, then it's a non-issue...because it won't move forward in the CC process. TB
My aologies Tom as I read this wrong and thought you mentioned it was a non-issue.
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Location: Green Bay, WI | No sweat. I thought maybe you knew something that I hadn't heard yet. We'll just have to wait and see what next week brings...
TB |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | per Terrence Dehring and Charles Krueger - Wi. DNR
"Common northern pike catches in Wisconsin, however, are in the 18-20 inch, two-pound range—by Mannheim standards, hardly worth putting on a cracker."
Edited by jonnysled 4/13/2013 1:27 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | The results of the citizen resolutions are online. Here they are by county:
http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/spring_hearing/2013/2013Resol...
The pike spearing on boundary waters did very well in both Marinette and LaCrosse counties. The dark house spearing seems to have passed as well. I guess we'll get to see how the entire state feels about those things next April.
TB |
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| CiscoKid - 4/12/2013 7:59 PM
jonnysled - 4/12/2013 7:52 PM
shooting into a buffalo heard doesn't sound like all that much fun.
Neither does spearing pike. To each their own.
Not sure I get the not wanting trolling to protect the resource gig, and then turning around and saying spearing pike is a hoot. : (
I grew up spearing pike to eat on the Muskegon River in Lower Michigan (non-musky water)....can't remember any over 30", but it was fun. My version of a "trophy" pike in Michigan is 40"+, but hard to find many over 30" these days. That was a very different fishery than the boundary waters.
This is part of a joint effort between WI and MI spearers to try and open up the boundary waters to what they perceive as "discrimination." I can't tell you how much time Boundary Waters Musky Club members spent to avoid an expansion of musky spearing statewide a couple of years ago, and we were actually able to get some lakes that were opened to spearing closed in the process. Two different arguments for the species in my opinion, but there is no doubt that the spearers are hoping to get into the Boundary Waters to open the door to musky spearing.
Based on conversations I've had with DNR personnel on both sides of the border and our legislators, it's unlikely that expansion on the BW will happen. A certain resort owner in NE WI might be able to weigh in there as well? Thanks to Dr. Pepin for getting the word out on this.
Edited by IM Musky Time 4/19/2013 9:01 PM
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| jonnysled - 4/12/2013 9:06 PM
CiscoKid - 4/12/2013 9:01 PM
Based on this, what you actually type.
next year i'll get you a bunch of decent wisconsin ice-pike but you'll have to wear a blindfold on the way to the lake. you can bring your kids, they would love it.
By the way, sign me up for that ice fishing trip for big pike! Would be happy to bring the kids over for that  |
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Resolutiuon to reinstate northern pike spearing