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| does tuffy have any plans to ever make a slightly larger version of the esox mgnum? an 18.5' or a 19' that can take one a little bit rougher water would be a freak of a muskie boat.
are there any larger boats similar to the esox magnum out there?
thanks!
Edited by Anonymous 3/31/2013 12:30 AM
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | They pretty much did, it's called an X190.
Working on convincing them to build an 18.5' Deep V G Series with the Esox Mag interior. |
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| i like the way the tri hull takes on bigger waves for such a small boat. one that sits a little higher than the esox magnum but still lower and can sit in shallower water than the x-190 would be one heck of a boat. an exact, but larger replica of the esox magnum. just a dream!
Edited by Anonymous 3/31/2013 1:33 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Mag is a V with sponsons (sponsoned V). The Esox is a true tri-hull. They've been considering a larger Magnum for quite some time...one never knows! |
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Location: north central wisconsin | sworrall - 3/31/2013 1:12 AM
Working on convincing them to build an 18.5' Deep V G Series with the Esox Mag interior.
That was always my request/dream boat back when I was shopping 6-7 years ago. Selfishly, I hope they don't make one now. I have my boats, and don't want any ideas... |
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| Esox Mag, V with sponsors, Tri hull - still no x-190. they react completely different when they hit the waves head on as far as how the boat comes down and takes the impact. There are enough big deep V's on the market. a larger magnum may even be appealing to the bass fishermen!  Come on Steve... work some magic! PLEASE!
Edited by Anonymous 3/31/2013 1:42 PM
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| Anonymous - 3/31/2013 2:40 PM
Esox Mag, V with sponsors, Tri hull - still no x-190. they react completely different when they hit the waves head on as far as how the boat comes down and takes the impact. There are enough big deep V's on the market. a larger magnum may even be appealing to the bass fishermen! Come on Steve... work some magic! PLEASE!
I'm not familiar with how the different hulls handle differently in waves. Could you or someone elaborate?
And is an x-190 a "deep v" like the 1860 is? I thought it the whole idea as to be "not quite a deep v"...I would have thought it was exactly what you were looking for? Maybe the first question will answer that... |
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| i have experienced absolutely no "rocking" side to side in my esox mag is what i meant by that. it is a very stable flat/boat in rough water for its size. the way the bottom front (this would be considered part of the hull, or no?) of the magnum is designed, when you come down from a wave it hits the water and causes the boat to stay flat. deep v's the same size as the magnum tend to tilt side to side when a wave from another boat hits them...especially in a tracker... the esox mag is much more stable than most v bottom boats around the same size. i'm sure the way i described this is terrible. just have to experience it and you would notice the difference instantly.
the front in general of the esox magnum is a lot different than an x-190 also. take an esox magnum, blow it up, put it next to an x-190 and it is not the same...not to mention would be lower to the water and run shallower as well. the esox magnum is like a sled/jon boat on steroids.
Edited by Anonymous 3/31/2013 11:58 PM
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Location: Davenport, IA | Anonymous - 3/31/2013 1:30 AM
i like the way the tri hull takes on bigger waves for such a small boat. one that sits a little higher than the esox magnum but still lower and can sit in shallower water than the x-190 would be one heck of a boat. an exact, but larger replica of the esox magnum. just a dream!
Do you mean a bass boat? |
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Posts: 121
Location: Plymouth IA | Not a bass boat, folks think my old tuffy musky rampage is a old bass boat. If they fish out of it they are amazed at how stable it is. sponsons that are part of the hull in the back with the v up front is amazing. I think the esox mag is the only boat made this way today. Much more stable then my friends smaller ranger bass boat that is still a bit bigger boat than the rampage. My dream boat is the X-190 with the sponsoned hull. Who knows maybe someday but I doubt it, folks just would not understand because it would look too differnt. |
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| Is a sponsoned v-hull the same as a trihull? I googled it, etc, and I still cant tell if there's any difference. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Macintosh - 4/4/2013 1:50 PM
Is a sponsoned v-hull the same as a trihull? I googled it, etc, and I still cant tell if there's any difference.
I have an older sponsoned v(Ozark), a poor mans tuffy. Also had one of the first rangers(a little 14' river cruiser my friend now owns), and it is a true tri-hull. The Tri hull 'wings' if you will, come down even with the keel, so it is very stable, but does 'plow' water a bit more than the sponsoned v, where the side 'wings' don't come quite as far down as the keel moving from front to rear, so the boat rides along on plane as if it were a v hull, but at rest or in waves, is afforded the stability of a tri hull type structure. Someone with a more hull savvy can clear up my terminology.
Edited by Reef Hawg 4/4/2013 3:03 PM
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Posts: 190
| Find a Tuffy Rampage Magnum. It has the sponsons you are looking for, and it is a deep version of the esox magnum. It is a go big water boat with no side to side rock The only problem with it they are hard to find. I waited many years for my buddy to finally sell his and I bought it without hesitation. About 5 years ago when I lost my boat to fire I asked Tuffy if they could make it for me and apparently that specific mold cracked and is no more.
here are some pics.
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Location: Hayward, WI | sworrall - 3/31/2013 1:12 AM
They pretty much did, it's called an X190.
Working on convincing them to build an 18.5' Deep V G Series with the Esox Mag interior.
Deep V with side tanks would be awesome. My dream boat would be a Tuffy deep V tiller with side tanks. Keep the good front deck storage also. I love the interior of my Alumacraft Navigator, and wish more glass boats had similar interiors. 2 rod lockers running along the side tanks, and everything in the bow and under the rear casting deck is storage for batteries, plano boxes, life jackets, clothes, etc.
Make that in a 1760 deep V tiller and I will figure out how to bug my wife for the money. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are several 'side tank' rides out there in the 18.5' to 19' class. Lund built a great boat in the Predator (one of my favorites), Skeeter offers a 20' tiller with a side tank interior, Alumacraft and Crestliner offer side tank interiors as well.Tuffy is looking at the 1890 GT with a side tank interior. We will see. It's a fairly small market looking for that interior, but Tuffy can do small builds if the response looks good.
By the way, thanks to the guys at Skeeter Boat Center and Mike Keyes for helping me get the Tuffy 1760 T SE out of the show Sunday. |
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Posts: 109
Location: Wisconsin River | My Mag is a awesome boat but if tuffy made a wider version I would be all over it.
Give me one with a 92" beam and 9' rod storage
Edited by Big Rock 4/9/2013 11:56 AM
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| What are side tanks? |
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| I'm confused as well. I had understood the thread to be about "side tanks", ie sponsons, which are part of the hull that comes into contact with the water only at rest and offers extra flotation and stability, without affecting the deep-v ride while on plane...but now there's a "side tank" interior layout? By this do you mean the top-opening rod lockers at deck level along each gunwale? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes. |
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| a Tuffy Esox Mag XL would be awesome |
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| it sounds like people want the old interior back. |
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Location: Wisconsin River | Anybody like center consoles? |
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| cbuf, that boat is beautiful. I'm sorry you lost it. Did you ever find another one?
I do like how they handle big water. The Rampage Magnum is 18', but even at 16'9", the 'interior' size of the Esox Magnum is pretty much the same size. Still a perfect boat. 3 guys in the boat seems to be getting very common with 4-6 Walleye fishermen per boat being pretty typical also.
An 18'9" Esox Magnum with a 90" beam would be incredible. The majority of Muskie anglers would probably love it. Maybe one day! Maybe I'll win the lotto and Tuffy could make one up for a good chunk of change
Edited by bshep 4/12/2013 8:38 PM
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| Hope you guys don't mind me posting these... just something to check out for fun.
Storage would be one of the best upgrades IMO. Room for at least two muskie boxes your buddies bring along and one or two more storage compartments. Although I have no complaints about the storage in the Esox Magnum. The rod locker will hold your 9 ft rods too.
I have no clue what is involved in making a boat, so I'm sure the below images would need some changes... but they give you an idea of the difference in size. Crazy how much of a difference 10-24 inches makes. I scaled these out, so they are pretty accurate as far as size goes... just didn't change all the seats.
Would you consider it?
Edited by bshep 4/12/2013 11:18 PM
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| Ok, so you guys are talking about basically an 18.5-19 foot boat that's about 90" wide...and just trying to get the layout and hull design right. Question...since this is essentially the boat I covet that we're talking about.
What are the attributes the hypothetical "magnum ESOX magnum" would have that would set it apart from an x190 or a 18.5' bass boat? I have never seen an x190, I don't think there's a single tuffy boat within a thousand miles of me, but having spent time in a lot of boats fairly similar to what I think an x190 is " like" (for instance some of the older narrower Champion bass boats that are known for their rougher water performance compared to other bass boats) I'm having a hard time convincing myself that it's NOT exactly what I want. There has to be both pluses and minuses for this boat you guys want...what are they? I see the increase in deck space in the bow, but that can't be it? What are the features you guys see each of those three boats having and not having that would make someone choose one or the other?
Edited by Macintosh 4/12/2013 9:37 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The best boat for the side tank interior Tuffy has right now is the 1890 at 97" beam. The GC, T and GDC would rock as a 'Super Magnum' type ride. the reason the old style interior was discontinued was the beam in the 1700 and 1760 was not enough to allow enough floor space. The 2100 hull with the G style gunnel and Mag interior would REALLY be a sweetheart.
The X190 is a lower profile 'hybrid' multi-specie hull. Great big water performance (better than an average dedicated bass hull) with a multi-specie interior. As a result it's 'fast', but not as fast a s true high performance bass hull. Very stable at rest with a deep V hull. In the Esox Deep V model it offers a big rear deck, and a big front deck. I's not a bass boat, and it's not a walleye boat masquerading as a muskie boat, either. |
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| It's also fairly low to the water, and it's not as heavy as most boats of that size--it's actually a pretty unique boat that frankly I'm surprised there aren't more of. I'm wondering what it is about that boat that would cause someone to not want it and pine for a similar sized boat with similar attributes--Im trying to understand what is wrong with an x190 that people would really want the sponsoned hull. No one Ive ever heard has ever complained that a 90" wide glass hull similar to an x190 or even a real deep v isn't stable enough, heck I see guys standing on the gunwales of their boats fishing all the time and hardly heeling it over, so what does the sponsoned hull do better than x190? What won't it do as well as an x190? Or is it a interior layout issue? Getting a little lost in the terminology and different models, and missing the reasons behind everything here. |
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Posts: 171
| it is simply an IDEA is all. everybody has them.
there is nothing wrong with the x-190. its a fantastic boat... just like there is nothing wrong with an esox magnum or many other boats on the market.
the reason is simple... it would make a kick ass boat with the same or more deck space than the x-190 depending on how much bigger you made it. yeah its not much and you would be able to accomplish the same in both boats, but an extra foot when you have three guys in the boat is extremely nice... which is why i extended the deck of my esox magnum and why you see a lot of guys making custom decks justencase boxes. the way the front of the esox magnum is designed, it gives you more room yet. an 18' esox magnum would give you the same amount of room as the x-190 at 19'6" and an 18'6" would give you even more. i'd only assume an esox magnum around those sizes would not even touch the cost of a new x-190.
just for the sake of discussing the perfect muskie fishing platform, the esox magnum.
Edited by bshep 4/13/2013 6:26 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You never know, the Magnum was created by expanding an Esox LTD hull. I'd like to see a 19' Magnum. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | sworrall - 4/13/2013 6:53 PM
You never know, the Magnum was created by expanding an Esox LTD hull. I'd like to see a 19' Magnum.
let me know if you ever need a test-driver ... |
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Posts: 171
| One more thing that is great about the magnum is you can clamp a down east to the side of it. Just one of many other reasons an exact replica on a larger scale would be awesome! |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | But lets look at this from a consumer stand point.
1. First fishing is a hobby therefore for most guys there is a budget involved. (It's tough to drop $30K plus on a hobby, most wives will not go along with this){Sure some guys can but that is a limited number}
2. With cost of materials (labor & benetfits) manufactures have there hands full trying to maintain costs. I worked in manufacturing most of my life and cost is always an issue. (Workers always expect a pay raise, health insurance is going up, but consumers expect finished goods to cost less) Throw in a struggling economy and it is even tougher. Any materials related to Oil have gone up 150% in a very short time, which is many of the materials in boats. (Look at what bag of lawn fertilizer cost this year compared to last)
My point is, I wish we would focus more on improving the layouts and features of our mid size boats but we always focus on bigger. Don't get me wrong bigger is great but it also comes with some cons (Initial cost, insurance, gas mileage of the boat, storage, ability to pull the thing, ability to sell it when that time comes) Take a look around when you fish and take note of how many people are in boats? Most of the time it is 2, and a lesser amount of time it is 1 or 3 so do we really need 20 foot boats and will we be able to manufacture them at a price point that anyone can afford? I have run 16 footers all my life and we have fished LOTW for many weeks with three guys. Was it great? NO, did we manage? YES (Would I recommend it?) NO. But I don't know that a bigger boat would have improved things much? (Three muskie lures flying at once is a challenge)
We also need to understand that for most of us every boat we buy we will eventually want to sell, therefore we need to think of being able to sell a boat when we buy a boat.
I have fished out of the current Esox Mag about 50+ times, every time with three guys and it is a fantastic boat just the way it is and it is very affordable. (Always for a weekend so it wan't bad) (Would I like to do that for a full week?????) It is probably the perfect muskie boat. I have never fished big water with it but people tell me they do. But I live between Green Bay and Lake Winnebago, it is probably a physcological thing but the only boat you see on those waters is a deep vee with most of them being 16 footers. This is the reason I have never bought an Esox Mag because it would be tough to sell in my area. I am sure this applys to others and areas too? So this is probably one of the reasons people prefer a vee over the Esox Mag and maybe even the X-190?
That X-190 is a darn nice rig but a bit out of my price range as it is over $40K to bad for me but see my point? To me the perfect hull and the largest most people ever need to go is the 1760 (nice length and width) , I hope to own one soon. But it would be nice to see a combination of the (Esox Mag and X-190) features incorperated into that hull, it is close already. (9 ft rod storage, double tanks, tons of storeage, etc)
I know many times we wish and voice our dreams on here so I am not trying to cause a debate, but I think we realistically need to understand what we ask manufactures to give us in the future because of the limitations.
And we also need summer fast!
Have a great day as it is again below freezing......... |
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Location: Not far enough north! | bshep - 4/13/2013 7:49 PM
One more thing that is great about the magnum is you can clamp a down east to the side of it. Just one of many other reasons an exact replica on a larger scale would be awesome!
I clamp down easters to my 1760 GT all the time!
I have fished out of tiller boats my entire life. I have owned three myself. My last boat was an esox mag tiller and current boat is a 1760 GT. Both are fantastic boats and have their advantages. The interior on the magnum is better for fishing three plainly because of the side tanks. However rough water comfort in the magnum is not good. It will handle some chop but working into waves bigger than a foot you get some major hull slap as the front comes down. I filled my magnum up on LOTW one time trying to get out of a cove in some 2-3 footers. Couldnt get the nose up high enough. The 1760 lets me get out in stuff the magnum would not that is the reason I have it. It is plenty stable and surprisinly not much higher off the water when casting.
I would like to see a boat with one side tank that way it would still free up some floor space. Balance might be an issue though... |
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Posts: 171
| The thin sides are awesome aren't they? (forgetting the special name they gave the design) |
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Posts: 190
| bshep, that is the boat I just bought to restore 2001 18' Tuffy Rampage magmum. Once I get done I was going to list the rebuild process and what I did to restore it. When I bought the boat it was in rough shape, now it is coming along. Once I get done here in a couple weeks I will post the rebuild, costs, and pictures.
The reason I bought this model is because what we are talking about here. It has big side tanks and a sponsored hull. I have fished 4 guys out of this boat and it is not a problem. We even had a trip with 5 guys, now that was tight and might have been illegal, but 3 guys standard. That is were those big side tanks come in. It is like a casting deck for the middle guy. Even with 4 guys on one side of the boat it does list that much because it is narrower. I'm not sold on the wider boat. I'm currently running a wide aluminium boat 98" while I like the extra room I find switching casting sides in back were I run the trolling motor from to be a pain. Also, because the boat get shallower as you move out to the sides it list more to the side than the narrower tuffy.
I'm in agreement with everybody as to the old interior, I like it. While I find it nice to sit next to your partner on the boat, on rough days with the wind and waves blowing back into the boat when everybody is sitting in the middle you stay dryer.
Here are the pictures of the Renegade I lost to some A holes trying to steel the motors off the boat. It was devastating.
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| bshep, that is the boat I just bought to restore 2001 18' Tuffy Rampage magmum. Once I get done I was going to list the rebuild process and what I did to restore it. When I bought the boat it was in rough shape, now it is coming along. Once I get done here in a couple weeks I will post the rebuild, costs, and pictures.
The reason I bought this model is because what we are talking about here. It has big side tanks and a sponsored hull. I have fished 4 guys out of this boat and it is not a problem. We even had a trip with 5 guys, now that was tight and might have been illegal, but 3 guys standard. That is were those big side tanks come in. It is like a casting deck for the middle guy. Even with 4 guys on one side of the boat it does list that much because it is narrower. I'm not sold on the wider boat. I'm currently running a wide aluminium boat 98" while I like the extra room I find switching casting sides in back were I run the trolling motor from to be a pain. Also, because the boat get shallower as you move out to the sides it list more to the side than the narrower tuffy.
I'm in agreement with everybody as to the old interior, I like it. While I find it nice to sit next to your partner on the boat, on rough days with the wind and waves blowing back into the boat when everybody is sitting in the middle you stay dryer.
Here are the pictures of the Renegade I lost to some A holes trying to steel the motors off the boat. It was devastating.
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Location: Green Bay, Titletown, WI | WOW, trashed a nice truck too! How did they manage to set it ablaze? |
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