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| According to the front page of the Lakeland Times...the Lac Du Flambeau tribe announced they are exercising their tribal rights by holding a Musky Spearing tournament March 16 on 5 area lakes. The lakes I saw listed were
North twin
South twin
Big arb
Big st germain
Big lake off k
There are $8500 in cash and prizes and 3 age divisions.
The 3 age divisions listed on the poster are (this is exactly how they are listed on the poster)
Braves 18 and under
Warriors 19-40
Chieftans 41 and over |
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| I don't think it has to do with sustainment, they have free rein, the less attention that is paid to them, the less this probably takes place. BR |
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Posts: 1757
Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | BenR - 3/9/2013 11:30 AM
Well at least they are not trolling! . Love it  |
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Posts: 572
| BenR - 3/9/2013 11:30 AM
Well at least they are not trolling!
Yep, remember that you "step back in time" once up in Vilas, and that's the way they like it up there. Horse-drawn buggies, wooden row boats, and the natives still spearing fish just like their forefathers. As long as there's no motor trolling, life is good.
(Obviously, tongue is firmly in cheek).
Edit:
Edited by Matt DeVos 3/9/2013 11:58 AM
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Maybe this will help revive Tourism and a Dying North Land !
(for those who don't know me...Sarcasm)
Jerome |
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| Unfortunatly I'm not sure what we can do about this. The DNR has no jurisdiction on this issue, winter spearing of muskies is not regulated. In my opinion this has alot to do with them trying to get the right to hunt deer at night. I think we all know hunting at night with high powered rifles is a bad idea, through in alcohol use by a few and this is a recipe for disater. I live in ceded territory have witnessed this first hand. One thing we can all do is boycott all tribal enterprizes, casino, gas stations etc. I myself have been guilty of going to the casino NO MORE one person will make no differnce but if we band together we can have an impact. Tell your friends when they are up north to stay away, also do not buy a license on the reservation as all monies then stay with tribe. |
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Posts: 265
Location: Hudson,WI | That sucks 
That's gonna ruin those lakes real quick. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Done some reading on this....sounds like this may be retaliation for allowing the Wolf hunt the tribes opposed and also that mining bill as well |
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Posts: 1220
| So, let's say your neighbor plays his music too loud for your liking and you tell him to shut the #*^@ thing off. He doesn't and you also get the idea he likes that it bothers you for some "long past" issue, so he turns it a bit louder yet. You go to the cops to complain, they measure the sound level and assure you that the decibels fall within the limits of his permit to play music. You look over your three options: 1. Move 2. Learn to live with it. 3. Negotiate a trade with your neighbor for something he wants. Obviously, there is a #4 option too, the one where you remain in the house, make yourself miserable, which is what your neighbor wanted in the first place..That option left out cuz who'd pick that?? |
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Posts: 4266
| Two wrongs don't make a right, but 3 lefts do.
I've said it for decades....if you ever spent a nickle in a casino, or hotel or anything related to the tribes, you are a part of the problem. Every time I see boats parked in the lot of a casino, I want to take a crap in every one. It has ruined fishing in many lakes, and when I see Al Lindner on TV talking about how much the netting is screwing up the walleye spawn in MN, it's like a spreading desease with no cure, and there isn't anyone going to stand up for us because nobody can battle with the courts.
I see that North Korea is going to tear up the truce or cease fire that ended that 'Police Action', maybe that's what we should do. Let's tear it up and say we are tired of the way things are going, and we hereby nulify said treaty.
I'm glad that I enjoy fishing for panfish and bass. |
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| Beaver - 3/9/2013 3:13 PM
Two wrongs don't make a right, but 3 lefts do.
I've said it for decades....if you ever spent a nickle in a casino, or hotel or anything related to the tribes, you are a part of the problem. Every time I see boats parked in the lot of a casino, I want to take a crap in every one. It has ruined fishing in many lakes, and when I see Al Lindner on TV talking about how much the netting is screwing up the walleye spawn in MN, it's like a spreading desease with no cure, and there isn't anyone going to stand up for us because nobody can battle with the courts.
I see that North Korea is going to tear up the truce or cease fire that ended that 'Police Action', maybe that's what we should do. Let's tear it up and say we are tired of the way things are going, and we hereby nulify said treaty.
I'm glad that I enjoy fishing for panfish and bass.
While you are tearing up the treaty, you can tear up the constitution, you may compare yourself to North Korea, but the USA certainly does not. BR |
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Posts: 512
Location: Appleton | Unfortunately every time we get all bent out of shape on this they get exactly what they want. I'm not any happier about it than the next guy but we basically have no choice but to bite our tongues on the issue. The more noise we make the more these types of activities will occur. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | probably have a lesser effect in that couple weeks than open water motor-trolling will bring over time. |
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Posts: 2014
| 3 lefts puts you behind where you started making the lefts and then on a parallel path, but still behind.... Good luck with this one. Best solution, boycott casinos and any tribe owned establishments, give the tribe the lakes and let them manage them themselves. They will be over-fished in a year and the tribe will have to deal with their own ignorance. Stock some new waters to replace the ones given over for future waters. Fighting more will only increase the resentment of a group who already feel marginalized. |
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Posts: 283
| You all could hold a "boat race" at the same time and make the water too choppy for them! |
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| Tigerhunter - 3/9/2013 3:42 PM
You all could hold a "boat race" at the same time and make the water too choppy for them!
It is in March:) |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | How do I enter? |
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Posts: 3475
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Question of curiosity here...
Would the number of muskies speared on this event (or through the winter for that matter) be a larger percentage of fish harvested/killed as compared to angler harvest, and/or delayed mortality due to mishandling? Will the percentage of people taking part in the event (or spearing altogether) be larger factor on the fishery than the number of people fishing from Memorial day weekend to Mid-late october and die hards until Nov 30th?
Being a man curious of statistics like this has me wondering where the significant impact on the fishery really sits. Not condoning the tourney or winter spearing or even hook and line angling....curious of which has the bigger impact on the fishery... Dead is dead regardless of how it happens...
Steve
Edited by VMS 3/9/2013 4:26 PM
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Posts: 89
| I heard from someone last year that the natives were going to spear the lake he lives on, everyone had a meeting beforehand and agreed not to protest them. The natives stayed at the landing and drank never going out on the ice. |
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Posts: 67
| That is exactly right! Maulson stated yesterday that there tournaments are no different than ours! Hello! You don't release speared fish! And also stated that if the state of Wisconsin is going to allow the mines they are going to fill all quotas to 100 percent so they have to completely take away the daily bag limit. He stated the tribes are going to take full advantage of all their rights and the war is on! Please stay out of the casinos and off the Rez! |
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| Yeah, now folks are angry. But go past the casino, see the fishing boats in the parking lot. Then drive through and see how many vehicles not pulling a trailer have some sort of fishing/musky sticker on a window, etc.
I think this is just the beginning of this kind of action. The tribes are very set against the mine and they will do every thing they can to show their displeasure. The advocates of the mine made it clear they really did not care what the tribe's concerns were, instead of doing any kind of outreach. When you take that kind of approach, you will get this kind of response. I was talking to a neighbor near my cottage in Oneida county last fall and we predicted this kind of action. It was easy to see it coming. Politics today seems to take a scorched earth approach, winner take all instead of trying to find some middle ground. |
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Posts: 174
Location: Ontario | This type of situation is not unique to just your area.We all deal with it in some forms.
Edited by Tim R 3/9/2013 5:05 PM
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| Nobody wants to see musky or walleye speared or used as a tool, but I get it. They have issues with the mine, wolves, other topics and it would seem this is their only voice. BR |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI |
Seems like a response in-kind to the BS mining bills that were recently rammed through the legislature to support Walkers corporate sponsors. The bummer is they (the corporates) don't give a #*^@ about fishing and we do.
muskyadamovich - 3/9/2013 4:40 PM
And also stated that if the state of Wisconsin is going to allow the mines they are going to fill all quotas to 100 percent so they have to completely take away the daily bag limit. He stated the tribes are going to take full advantage of all their rights and the war is on! Please stay out of the casinos and off the Rez! |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | BenR - 3/9/2013 11:30 AM
Well at least they are not trolling!
Word.
JS |
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Posts: 270
Location: brooklyn park mn | Yeah never really thought about it in the sense of everytime I would go to the casino I am helping destroy the lakes I love. Makes me want to not go anymore once I see it in that light.
Edited by muskyjim123 3/9/2013 11:01 PM
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Posts: 574
| Stop all DNR stocking on speared lakes.. Wait a few years, and when the spearing/"fishing" sucks, maybe they'll be a more receptive to the rules everyone else is supposed to follow..? I don't see why even a penny on my fishing liscense money should be going to stock any of these lakes..
At least I have a few more lakes to add to my "will never make a cast into" list. |
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| It would seem they are reaching out to the muskie community for support. The fact we are focused on conservation, it would seem they are using the only tool they have to gather support from the fishing community against the mines. Might actually be a chance to find some common ground, work together on issues going forward. BR |
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Posts: 8729
| BenR - 3/9/2013 11:43 PM
It would seem they are reaching out to the muskie community for support. The fact we are focused on conservation, it would seem they are using the only tool they have to gather support from the fishing community against the mines. Might actually be a chance to find some common ground, work together on issues going forward. BR
Reaching out? Maybe they ought to try not reaching out with a spear. If they want support from the muskie community, this isn't the way to get it. They aren't toddlers throwing a temper tantrum looking for attention from their mother. They are a sovereign nation, exercising their treaty rights in a land in which we only have privledges. It's ceded territory folks. Read the laws. More importantly, read the history and see how that turned out for US when we made asses of ourselves trying to take those rights away back in the 80's...
If this is anything at all, it's a giant middle finger in the air to the muskie community. Maybe this is a reminder of who the lakes REALLY belong to, and it ain't us.
Boycott the casinos.... REALLY? WHY? Are you going to screw them to get a point across? What can any of us possibly do to screw them any worse than they've already been screwed?? I say GO the casinos. The more money they can make screwing a bunch of blue haired old ladies out of their money, the less likely it is that they are going to want to destroy a lake or 6.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting a muskie spearing tournament. Those fisheries need all the help and protection they can GET. But as long as they can screw us back, just a little bit, by messing with something we hold dear, that's exactly what the **** they are going to do. And only an great person would blame them for it, because if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd all do EXACTLY the same thing. It's not about the mines. It's not about the casinos. It's about US having NO RESPECT for the treaties our ancestors signed giving them RIGHTS to the resources that WE now think belong to US. They do NOT. They never HAVE. And they likely never WILL. That's right, kiddies. Those lakes do NOT belong to us! If we'd ever get our heads out of our collective asses and accept that, these sorts of things would NEVER happen. Treaty harvest... BULL#*#*! If there was enough revenue coming in from the casinos, they'd never launch another boat! |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Jason Bomber - 3/9/2013 11:35 PM
Stop all DNR stocking on speared lakes.. Wait a few years, and when the spearing/"fishing" sucks, maybe they'll be a more receptive to the rules everyone else is supposed to follow..? I don't see why even a penny on my fishing liscense money should be going to stock any of these lakes..
At least I have a few more lakes to add to my "will never make a cast into" list.
the tribe might stock more fish than the DNR does ... |
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| This and the night deer hunting are direct retaliation to the wolf hunt. The wolf is their sacred animal. They wanted all of the wolf tags, but the dnr said no and only gave them 75 I believe, which they did not use. If there had been no wolf hunt this would not be happening. It's bs, wolves need to be controlled too. But there beliefs say they shouldn't be killed. They are just trying to stir the pot again and cause a fight. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Disgusted - 3/10/2013 8:38 AM
This and the night deer hunting are direct retaliation to the wolf hunt. The wolf is their sacred animal. They wanted all of the wolf tags, but the dnr said no and only gave them 75 I believe, which they did not use. If there had been no wolf hunt this would not be happening. It's bs, wolves need to be controlled too. But there beliefs say they shouldn't be killed. They are just trying to stir the pot again and cause a fight.
yup ... |
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Location: north central wisconsin | BenR - 3/9/2013 11:30 AM
Well at least they are not trolling! .
Once all of the hullabaloo over it, is seen, perhaps they will.
Edited by Reef Hawg 3/10/2013 10:22 AM
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Posts: 67
| Wow! It don't make a dang bit of difference if they had all the money in the world! They would blow it and spear every possible walleye and musky regardless. We are a much bigger group and without our money it will make an effect. Wait until the daily bag limits are dropped to 0 or 1 and watch the tourism drop! Action will have to be taken. The state will not stand fort this. We have the most aggressive and-dramatic governor in the US. |
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| Much to do about nothing. These lakes have been getting speared at the maximum levels allowed by law for close to 30 years and the fishing is as good or better today than it's even been. Any of you whiners recall the hook and line musky guys assault on the N Twin 30 lb + musky population in the 80's and early 90's. Now that was something to actually cry about. Have any of you actually fished North Twin lately? Removing a few dozen or more muskies would probably do that place more good than harm.
I completely agree that winter spearing totals should be counted against the Tribal quotas, but it's insignificant in the grand scheme just as this little tournament is. Anglers do not make up a significant portion of any casino's patrons for a boycott to even be noticed.
For those who have never taken the time to research this, during open water spearing the Tribes can only take a certain number of muskies & walleyes out of any lake, and do have size limits on what they can take. There are also size limits for winter spearing, but no bag limits and those harvest numbers are not counted against the Tribal Quotas. If they take their limit of muskies allowed by Biologists during open water spearing season it should make every musky angler happy as the net result is total C&R on those lakes, which I can assure you would result in far, far fewer muskies being removed than have been taken by the combined efforts of spearers and hook and line anglers in the past.
The Tribes stock about 30 million walleyes back into Wisconsin waters every year and harvest about 30,000 by spearing. The statewide musky spearing harvest is usually 250 - 300, a drop in the bucket compared to hook and line harvest of both species.
I for one hope they follow through with their threat to spear their Tribal Quota on every lake in the Ceded Territory. That means total C&R and far more muskies and walleyes available for me to catch than in previous years when hook and line anglers were also allowed to harvest. If that continues long term it will affect tourism numbers to some extent but will also be hugely beneficial for musky and walleye populations in the Ceded Territory. Compare for yourself:
Spearing totals can be seen here: http://www.glifwc.org/Reports/reports.php
Hook and line harvest totals (via creel surveys) can be seen here: http://infotrek.er.usgs.gov/doc/wdnr_biology/treaty/StateMapHotspot... |
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| They are expressing with their rights their displeasure on our use of the resources. That is their voice and people will still go the casinos, people like to gamble. BR |
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Posts: 293
| We get preached to that we're all equals, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it to me. They know exactly what they are doing with this, and it's working....peeing off all the guys that preach conservation, and sustainment. |
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Posts: 32803
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 1) 'Wow! It don't make a dang bit of difference if they had all the money in the world! They would blow it and spear every possible walleye and musky regardless.'
2) 'We get preached to that we're all equals, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it to me.'
1) Totally inaccurate.
2) Uninformed
This subject comes up every year.
By LAW, the Tribes have the right to harvest fish and game in the Ceded Territory; you do not. You have the privilege. If you don't know what Ceded Territory means, that's the first sign you don't know enough about this to understand the situation.
If you don't know what GLIFWC is you need to before making assumptions and comments.
http://www.glifwc.org/
If you haven't read the Treaty Law, and haven't read the Supreme Court decision, do so before you comment.
Keep this thread free of racism, please. If you want to argue politics and racism with each other, use you personal email.
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Ho Hum - 3/10/2013 9:59 AM
Much to do about nothing. These lakes have been getting speared at the maximum levels allowed by law for close to 30 years and the fishing is as good or better today than it's even been. Any of you whiners recall the hook and line musky guys assault on the N Twin 30 lb + musky population in the 80's and early 90's. Now that was something to actually cry about. Have any of you actually fished North Twin lately? Removing a few dozen or more muskies would probably do that place more good than harm.
I completely agree that winter spearing totals should be counted against the Tribal quotas, but it's insignificant in the grand scheme just as this little tournament is. Anglers do not make up a significant portion of any casino's patrons for a boycott to even be noticed.
For those who have never taken the time to research this, during open water spearing the Tribes can only take a certain number of muskies & walleyes out of any lake, and do have size limits on what they can take. There are also size limits for winter spearing, but no bag limits and those harvest numbers are not counted against the Tribal Quotas. If they take their limit of muskies allowed by Biologists during open water spearing season it should make every musky angler happy as the net result is total C&R on those lakes, which I can assure you would result in far, far fewer muskies being removed than have been taken by the combined efforts of spearers and hook and line anglers in the past.
The Tribes stock about 30 million walleyes back into Wisconsin waters every year and harvest about 30,000 by spearing. The statewide musky spearing harvest is usually 250 - 300, a drop in the bucket compared to hook and line harvest of both species.
I for one hope they follow through with their threat to spear their Tribal Quota on every lake in the Ceded Territory. That means total C&R and far more muskies and walleyes available for me to catch than in previous years when hook and line anglers were also allowed to harvest. If that continues long term it will affect tourism numbers to some extent but will also be hugely beneficial for musky and walleye populations in the Ceded Territory. Compare for yourself:
Spearing totals can be seen here: http://www.glifwc.org/Reports/reports.php
Hook and line harvest totals (via creel surveys ) can be seen here: http://infotrek.er.usgs.gov/doc/wdnr_biology/treaty/StateMapHotspot...
Fantastic post. Too bad it will fall on deaf ears. Edited by Pointerpride102 3/10/2013 12:22 PM
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| You do know Guest that over harvest happens all over and not just with the tribes, right? The folks LVD a few years ago? The retirees taking 200 to 300 perch a day off Bago? To pretend it is limited to tribal members is a joke. |
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Posts: 32803
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Since some folks have shown they are not capable of keeping overt racism out of this discussion, it's frozen until a moderator is guaranteed to be online. |
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LDF Announces Musky Spearing Tourney March 16