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Posts: 122
| I read an article today, and I'm sure a lot of you read it too, that said the MN musky heyday is behind us. While still a tremendous fishery, the author believes we won't see the numbers of big fish that were being caught when systems peaked, approximately 24 years after peak stocking years. I am wondering what thoughts and reactions others have after reading that. |
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Posts: 981
| what lead him to believe the "peak" is now gone? |
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Posts: 82
| Yep all done. Stay home. Lol |
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| I know from my own experience the heyday is definately over, although I think ultimate fish size may be peaking now. In the late 90's I could fish stocked lakes all over Minnesota and have great action, incredible numbers, and not observe other musky boats. I had numerous numerous multiple fish days up into the double digits. A big fish though was in the high 40s where as now I feel a big fish in Minnesota has to be 53" plus. Since the mid 2000's I have observed many more musky fishermen and total boat numbers on good days have dropped dramatically for me and my aquaintenances. I do think in terms of max size we are close to peak now. Maybe the proposed 56" minimum will prolong that? In terms of quality and quantity of fish caught I feel the peak was around 2006-2008 and I fish all over Minnesota. In terms of max size probably now.
One more example of my opinion....In the late 90s many number of fish days on Mille Lacs up to the low 20s had been reported. Now a good day on Mille lacs is one fish. Definately past peak for numbers, but not size. |
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Posts: 1416
Location: oconomowoc, wi | #*^@! missed it! |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are several conversations regarding this subject in the research board. I have heard several Muskie fishery managers refer to the first generations of any new stocking's 'best numbers and size structure' and the inevitable leveling of both due to angling pressure and other possible variables as 'New Reservoir syndrome'.
There's definitely going to be, and it appears from anecdotal evidence, there has been, a decline in numbers of truly big fish from the early year classes in the stocked waters due to normal attrition, harvest, and delayed mortality. The concept is the peak numbers and size will not be again achievable as a result of both. Stopping harvest completely may help, but still, due to factors discussed in the above mentioned research forum discussions, probably will never reach what was the 'best' again. |
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| I agree with what Steve posted. I think the heyday is over for that reason. I think it could be re-fired or improved with a 56" minimum and adding new waters along with spreading out the pressure and creating more opportunity. |
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Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | Yep, no big fish in MN, guess everyone should travel to WI. No need fishing in MN anymore. Better leave the weak waters to those that live here, everyone else should just stay home, not worth trying anyway. 
But in all seriousness, there are ways that we can counter act this. I think the most important would be raising the size limit to 56" that will insure that more large fish are released back into the waters for another angler to catch (or myself again) at a later date. The next big thing (at least to me) is being out there teaching people who are unaware of the correct way to handle and release fish. A little education goes a long way in this sport, because even one wrong move can result in mortality of the fish, even if it were released. I'm not concerned, i'll be fishing for these fish for the rest of my life, or as long as I can cast. Eventually (if this is true) the big fish will again flourish. |
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| The fishery will stay great, just not the craziness that happens in the first stocking classes. Do you recall the vermillion fishing in the late 90's? Still a great fishery, but not the same. BR |
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Posts: 8781
| Makes sense. A fish stocked today has 20 year classes ahead of it all competing for the same forage and habitat. The best time to be a muskie is when you're the biggest one and none have come before you.
That doesn't mean it's over for MN. It won't ever be the same on lakes that have only had muskies in them for 20 years or so. But every time you stock a new body of water, you have that same opporortunity ahead of you 20 years down the road. Size limits and C&R certainly help. But the gold mines of tomorrow are the ones that don't have muskies in them today. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | FAT-SKI - 2/2/2013 10:57 AM
Yep, no big fish in MN, guess everyone should travel to WI. No need fishing in MN anymore. Better leave the weak waters to those that live here, everyone else should just stay home, not worth trying anyway. ;-)
I hear/see 50 inch fish caught all of the time in metro lakes. Why drive 3+ hours just to catch (if you can) mid 30 to mid 40 inch fish ? There are no large fish in Wisconsin - no need to waste your time fishing there. |
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Posts: 536
| funny that refering to mn muskie hay day is over by refering to stocked waters only! that really does show that for the most part the natural waters are really lacking and need help! |
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Posts: 2024
| I have also heard that the fishing on Vermilion simply sucks from July 6th to the 13th. Get the word out so people don't waste their time and money.
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Posts: 537
Location: Gilberts IL/Rhinelander WI | ARmuskyaddict - 2/2/2013 12:42 PM
I have also heard that the fishing on Vermilion simply sucks from July 6th to the 13th. Get the word out so people don't waste their time and money.
It sucks late August as well especially at night, don't waste your time... |
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Posts: 182
| I had more and bigger muskies than ever last year. And we shut down for about three weeks because of high water temps. I wish I would have started fishing for these crazy things earlier in life. Still pretty good folks. Is the glass half full or not? |
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Posts: 158
| Where can I find the article? Thanks |
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| BenR - 2/2/2013 11:01 AM
The fishery will stay great, just not the craziness that happens in the first stocking classes. Do you recall the vermillion fishing in the late 90's? Still a great fishery, but not the same. BR
x2 |
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| I will say right off the bat, I don't fish in Minnesota. But have one thought.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the invasive species are having an effect on MN fishing. Between Rusty Crayfish, Zebra mussels and Spiney water fleas there has to be a correlation.
I have seen what the invasive species have down to my home water of LOTW and they are impacting the fishery.
Dan |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | I think about this from time to time. Part of me wishes I had started fishing muskies just 2 years ago when the proverbial "hay day" had mostly passed and the biomass of initially stocked, physically unchallenged, but very mentally challenged fish had gone to muskie heaven. I have seen a few posts above that reflect the views of these anglers and I'm jealous. The fishery is indeed still great and now it's getting back to making us all better anglers instead of constantly dropping us muskie gifts from fish heaven. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Seems to me that the Hey Day attributed initial year stockings and newly established fisheries can be reproduced. There are plenty of big water systems remaining in Minnesota just waiting to become the next Mille Lacs or Vermilion.
What is preventing this from happening? Lack of $$$, political resistance, other??? |
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Posts: 833
| I wasn’t around for the heyday so I cannot comment on that. However, I’m fortunate to be able to know guys with a wide range of skill levels in this sport. There are guys who still stick 40+ fish a season in the metro, including some tanks, while fishing mostly evenings and weekends. That tells me two things: I still have a lot to learn and it is still possible to catch a lot of fish. Maybe the learning curve is steeper now? I’m the guy Hamm describes in that I’m going into my 4th season so I can’t really say what the hey day was like, but I do know it is still possible to have a great season in the Metro. We just have to adapt as things change. |
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| Fish deep and you shall find thy gold that thy seek. |
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | The most difficult feat on some of the metro waters now is to catch a fish under 45". |
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| absolutely no doubt the heyday is over in MN. While I do think the upper size range is getting bigger on most lakes you are not going to catch or have action from nearly as many fish as years ago. Mille Lacs in the late 90s, early 2000s it wasn't uncommon to have action from 25+ fish in a day. Now? Good luck
Same with Vermilion. Yah 55" + fish are caught, but the hours per fish has dramatically increased all over MN.
Still one of the top destinations in the US/Canada for excellent fishing. |
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Posts: 82
| The fishing and amount of fish cought is about the same. The amount of water to fish them in is the same. The difference is the growing number muskie fishermen. If the pie stays the same size but you have to serve more people there's less to go around. Unless muskie fishermen start making more noise to the dnr about the need for more lakes we can expect this to continue.
Edited by DLC 2/5/2013 12:27 PM
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Posts: 2015
| DLC - 2/5/2013 12:25 PM
The fishing and amount of fish cought is about the same. The amount of water to fish them in is the same. The difference is the growing number muskie fishermen. If the pie stays the same size but you have to serve more people there's less to go around. Unless muskie fishermen start making more noise to the dnr about the need for more lakes we can expect this to continue.
I agree with this.. first time I fished V was 2001, you would see 5-6 other muskie boats on the east side mid-July....funny thing is I'll take V now, I like a good challenge AND average size fish is crazy big...I'm a lot better muskie fisherman than I was 12 years ago, i don't mind a boat average of around 7-8 hrs/fish (for my boat) when the average fish you stick is 46". |
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Posts: 1287
Location: WI | I don't fish waters with high fishing pressure, although it is increasing every year. That said, the last couple years have been tough. The heat in 2012, the late spring and lack of weed growth in 2011. I had a lot of action in 2009 when I didn't fish as much, we had an early spring and good weed growth that season.
Edited by JKahler 2/5/2013 1:05 PM
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| this thread is about "MN heyday"...yet it seems to be focused on Mille Lacs and Vermillion....there are alot better bodies of water in MN for both action and 50+ inchers. So I say, yes, on those 2 bodies of water the heyday is over...but statewide, far from it. |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | I think tonka is getting better every year! |
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| I have fished waters all over the state and was in on the stocked water heydays. My numbers for size ratios and numbers gradually increased from the late 90s and peaked around 06-08. I have been overly anal about numbers and ratios through the years keeping accurate logs and typically have 100 plus fish in the boat per year from all over the state. I am absolutely convinced that on "stocked" waters heyday is over. I still think on larger bodies of water "ie" Vermilion and Mille Lacs the overall size heyday is still about to peak. In my opinion despite the numbers heyday being over, our fishing in Minnesota is still great thanks to the hard work of MI, the DNR, and others and will continue to be great. (I do miss the high numbers of stupid easy fish days though in the late 90s and early 2000s and should have relished them more.)
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Posts: 11
| I believe we are on the downhill side of it, big fish are still being caught but dwindling government funding and more fishing pressure than ever is changing the fishery. It's time the fisherman to start taking over responsibility for the fisherey. Responsible and ethical fishing is what will save it from being decimated. Strictly my opinion. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Therein lies the rub. When you start talking about legislating responsibility or ethics, some folks have a real problem with that unfortunately. |
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Posts: 552
Location: deephaven mn | a new heyday can be created if muskies are introduced to new waters.
we've seen it work, just need 6 or 8 new lakes and twenty years from now
there will be high fives! and ye haws! happening |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | New lakes will be hard to get with all the cuts being made. This is one of the reasons we have focused on protecting what we have (56in size limit). |
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Posts: 246
| When was the first and last big stocking efforts on Minny,s big lakes?Don't they stock every year or just on select lakes? Thanks |
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| JKahler - 2/5/2013 1:03 PM
I don't fish waters with high fishing pressure, although it is increasing every year. That said, the last couple years have been tough. The heat in 2012, the late spring and lack of weed growth in 2011. I had a lot of action in 2009 when I didn't fish as much, we had an early spring and good weed growth that season.
Can't forget about the summer that never really was of 2010. Weather will always play a part. Rusty's seem to be making inroads, and pressure has surely conditioned a lot of the fisheries. I tend to believe it's a cumulative result with the fish adapting and evolving, but the fish are still there because the majority of us release them and most importantly they have to feed. It's combat out there and you surely have to be on the mark at the right time at the right place more so these days. |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Jason - 2/5/2013 8:28 PM
Can't forget about the summer that never really was of 2010. Weather will always play a part.
If I could have one summer back, it would be 2010. |
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| Go deep and your cup will runneth over... |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I believe what people refer to as the "hey day" was a skewed size distribution resulting from intense stocking efforts to establish a "new" musky fishery. In other words, a larger percentage of the total population were at trophy size than a "normal" population.
Once the fishery is established, the size distribution will stabilize into a tradtional bell shaped curve.... and there will be fewer fish in the "trophy" size range on a total percentage of the whole. Still great fisheries.... but not as "great" as the initial fishery.
My good friend MRoberts noticed this in WI several years ago. Lakes that became HOT for a few years were often the result of a heavy stocking year(s). Heavier stockings that "normal". If you want to consistent fisheries... keep stocking the way we are. If you want to create cyclical hot bites... perhaps instead of stocking 1 fish per acre every year... we should stock 10 fish per acre every 10 years into a given system? Same total number of fish introduced to the lake.... but you are artificially creating strong year classes.
So, you can choose to chase the HOT bite ... wherever it may occur next.... or learn to produce good results with what you have (or complain when it goes COLD). And... if you are really proactive... help to generate the $$$ to establish new fisheries and the next HOT bite in future years.
Short term vs Long Term return on your investment. |
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Posts: 3147
| Heyday or easy fishing
if you dont think the contacting of muskies in Minn has gone down think back to 2004-2008 on this website when 3 times a week there would be pictures of big fish,,now theres alot bigger gaps
This July we were up on the northend of mile lacs in july on a saturday and saw two other boats all day
DO YOU REMEMBER what the notrhend of mile lacs was like in the summer from 2000 -2010??? it looked like omaha beach on D-day there were so many boats uo on the sand.
'i know " there all out in deep water,,,,,thats why the guides some of which have fantastic tournament records cant catch them and have left.
The easy days are gone however I am seeing people leave the sport which means less pressure
'If you build it they will come" but if it starts to fall they run like hell"
Lake St Clair gets the future crowd |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Guest - 2/5/2013 10:08 AM
Fish deep and you shall find thy gold that thy seek.
Guest - 2/6/2013 8:38 AM
Go deep and your cup will runneth over...
This is my favorite guest ever. Seriously. Great, simple insight.
Edited by Hammskie 2/6/2013 11:45 AM
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| I have always wondered this...but why is the NE part of the state, especially up by Ely and the surrounding area, always ignored when it comes to introducing new musky waters to the state? The way some of those lakes are made up I think Muskies would do extremely well there...Also, that area is kind of in a downswing in terms of tourism then what it once was, maybe they could use an additional boost any way they could get it. It might also take away some of the pressure from Vermilion for those looking for a Canadian like experience without actually going to Canada.... |
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Posts: 246
| Great question! If there is a good forage base for the muskies to feed on and we know muskies don,t wipe out the game fish population like alot of old schoolers say why does,nt the DNR and our clubs stock other bodies of water like the boundary waters,Kabtogema,Red lake and some other viable waters with good forage?Just a thought.
Thanks |
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Posts: 2024
| We know musky don't decimate other fish populations, but walleye and bass guys don't... I would love for them to stock Pelican Lake. Lots of weeds and structure, plus it's close to my moms. I wonder if the DNR is hesitant in some lakes due to large pike populations? |
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Posts: 8781
| Money. Money that would be better spent managing fisheries that appeal to the largest segments of the population. There's your reason. And probably a case of being met with more adversity from folks who don't want muskies in their lakes that support from those who do.
My guess is that there is far more money to be made supporting multi species fisheries than spending the money on a fish that only a relatively few actually care about.
That's just a guess. Ask some of the guys who are active in trying to get more MN lkaes stocked.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | muskies only eat "approved" fish ... |
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Posts: 82
| We don't just get to pick lakes. Lol I wish it was that easy. First the dnr has to identify a lake then comes the fun part. Trying to get public acceptance so then you have to deal with lake associations the MDAA and other politics. Then it goes through a public impute process. And if your real lucky you can get it done in about 4 years. If not (ie) Tetonka 6 years later your still busting your ass trying to get it done. Like I said before you want more lakes muskie fishermen need to talk to the dnr as a few of us are working as hard as we can. Oh yeah and the pay stinks. You get to give all your time spends lots of money on gas and get about $0 per hour. So if you want more lakes start making some noise. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | So... we have people complaining that the HeyDay is over and its too difficult to catch trophy muskies on certain lakes..... and we have others saying its too difficult to correct the "problem". Who is willing to be part of the solution??
Then we have the 56" size limit discussion.... which is based on the idea of protecting what you already have. Is this the "easiest" and "lowest cost" solution to making it "easier" to catch trophy muskies in MN... or anywhere?
What if it becomes TOO easy to bag a 50+ incher? Will we lose the "thrill of the hunt" or diminish the accomplishment of a catching one? Or... will the bar be raised and catching 50's will become commonplace while everyone chases something bigger. Sooner or later it has to end as the size limit or trophy status mark will exceed the growth potential of this great species. Or... perhaps we should just make all musky fisheries Catch and Release only to end the madness. Treat them like an endangered species.....
I apologize for the negative tone this morning. I love to musky fish and can't imagine ever losing the ability to do so. I'm just a little frustrated at some of the motives behind these discussions. Nothing is free. And not everything is... or should be... EASY in my opinion. |
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MN musky heyday over?