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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | I have a few months to decide... so what's the popular vote? Which reel will perform the best and last the longest pulling DC10's and Big Rubber? I have no complaints with my Toro Winch or Calcutta TE 400.... so I could use some help. What's your vote and why? |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | the toro is not meant for pulling tens unless your using the winch,the 5:4:1 is more for other lures than hard pulling baits like tens,so I would get the calcutta d if you want to use it for tens and big rubber,I`m sure it will last longer over the yrs and it`s built in japan vs korea,the new revo sure does look better though and has a clicker. |
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| The Calcutta D's are new experience with reels. They are just super smooth and tight. I have been impressed thus far. BR |
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Posts: 1358
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | CASTING55 - 1/14/2013 5:34 PM
the toro is not meant for pulling tens unless your using the winch,the 5:4:1 is more for other lures than hard pulling baits like tens,so I would get the calcutta d if you want to use it for tens and big rubber,I`m sure it will last longer over the yrs and it`s built in japan vs korea,the new revo sure does look better though and has a clicker.
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I hear people say all he time to me that they don't think the Toro can't handle tens. So my opinion is, either you think its to hard (doubtful for a muskie guy) or you are used to reels with rediculous pulling ability like the Tranx (more likely). I can assure you it works just fine for all blades (excluding dbl 20s)
I own the older version 5.4:1 and TRUST me it works for tens just fine. in fact I would never get the Winch (again) had it and sold it. sure it makes things a little easier but you burn out twice as fast trying to bring em in fast than you would if you put a little more arm strength behind it and just reel. It works for tens, and even 13s. So in short. I don't own a Calcutta D.. But it dosen't matter becuase I would still buy the Revo Toro NaCl. |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I ran both last fall using big blades. The 400D is a round reel, palms pretty well, and is glassy smooth. The Revo Toro is a lower profile, fits my hand differently, and is a great reel. The new NACL is very nice and has the gear ratio available the Muskie big blade guys like the best.
I have the 400 on a St Croix Mojo 8'6" in xh, and currently, the D400 is strapped to a Big Nasty or TI 9' 1 piece depending on what I want to throw. I switched off every couple hours last Fall, and was very happy with both. Can't go wrong with either. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | power handle please ... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | jason, what application for the double 10s? just slow to medium speed I take it? why not a tranx? |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Brad.... the Tranx is too big for me. Feels clumsy and is too specialized of a reel for my current fishing budget. I'm currently quite happy with my Calcutta TE and even my Lunas with a power handle for the majority of my double10 fishing. Fished side by side with a pair of Tranx's this past summer and certainly felt "under powered" when trying to keep up with them on a 16 hour day. But, that was only 2 days of a much longer season. If I had the cash to support adding a Tranx or two to my boat... I'd do it. For now, I'm stuck with using multi-purpose gear... and gear that my boys can handle as well. My reservation with the Calcutta D is that it does not have a power handle... and I'm uncertain that you can add one with the location of the star drag. The line guide seems a little "flimsy" too... but certainly not a show stopper issue. I do like the more compact size since I'm a "palmer". Ideally, I can "try before I buy"... but none of my buddy's have either one at this time.... cause they blew all their cash on Tranx's.... hahahaha. |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd be happy to let you use mine. |
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Location: Madison, WI | i tried a Calcutta 400D out last fall, i'm buying one this spring.
i was stunned at how smoothly it casts and retrieves, even on large hard-pulling baits. i really like the gear ratio and line retrieve per crank: low enough to be easy to reel but just slightly faster than the 400TE which is a tad slow for multi-purpose use.
keep in mind that "power" handles are really just longer. although most are single grip, this double paddle is arguably a "power handle" due to the extra length. i like the double-paddle for ease of finding the grip and best balance.
one limitation is the difficulty accessing the spool brakes - the reel only opens on one side and the brakes are buried on the other side. of course, i set my spool brakes loosely one time and never touch them again, so not really a big deal. the upside is a stronger/more rigid frame with tighter tolerances.
Shimano's reputation for quality is very strong, and my personal experience with their high-end reels has been exceptional. if i'm dropping $300+ on a reel, it will be definitely be for another Shimano.
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Location: Contrarian Island | makes me think of that burger king commercial...  but if you have Burger King hands then you are s.o.l. sounds like from MIkes review the 400D would be sweet...if the double paddle handle has some length to it which it sounds like you'll be in business..... |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | J,
I am in the same boat. I am going to get a couple new reels this winter and have narrowed it down to your two choices. I am going to use them for a jerkbait/crankbait application. No DD10's. I have briefly looked at both of them but have not yet decided. My first impression based off feel and palmability was to go with the ABU. Then I started thinking about how durable my old Calcutta 400's hae been and realized I need to dig a bit further. I am sure it is going to come down to the little things like who has the better anti reverse and is the line pick up system engaged while casting? I have not really dug too deep yet but I will let you know what I like or dont like.
BTW - I love the Tranx.....it rules!
MR |
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Posts: 572
Location: Maplewood, MN | I was debating on the same two reels. I'm leaning toward the toro just because of price so far and I'm on a college budget. |
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| Really recommend trying out the 400D before you buy anything, it is such as improvement in smoothness and a feeling like the reel is super tightly tuned. In comparison to other reels, it is probably under priced at the current price point. BR |
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Posts: 335
Location: Pulaski, WI | The NaCL has the advantage of coming with both handles in the box. I have never had a bad Shimano reel and I can't say that about Abu so I am leaning towards the Shimano. |
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| One more thing if you are on a budget, check out ebay for standard revo toro 5:4.1, you can still get them and apparently the only difference between the standard and Nacl are the colors, handle, and saltwater worthiness. If you keep a look out they usually go for around 200 when they are up there. BR |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Images of the profile and width of the two reels. Note the handles are about the same length, and the 'power handle' for the Abu has two mounts and comes with the reel; looks like the outer will make the handle 'longer'. Both reels are really nice.
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Posts: 339
Location: Lake County Illinois | I have all 3 models in the revo toro and like them alot,but dam that new handle on the Nacl felt super nice! |
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Posts: 109
Location: Wisconsin River | Just picked my 4th toro after destroying a curado hs. I agree, the winch has limited applications because of speed. Works great for those big lip plugs and helps you slow down when the water gets real cold. Otherwise chose the 5.4 or 6.4 and put on the power handle if you think you need it. Have not had any durability issues with any of them. The new power handle fits on the older toro and does not interfere with the drag star in the outer position. |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | If I can try before I buy, this question will be answered rather quickly.... but I'll ask it anyway.  Revo Toro NaCL 5.4:1 = 26 inches per crank and wide/low profile spool Calcutta D 400 5.1:1 = 27 inches per crank and tall/narrow spool If the handles are of equal length on both reels, will they both require the same amount of "work" to turn the handle? If yes, the Calcutta will by my choice as it is FASTER. But, do the gear ratio and spool diameter also factor in? The higher gear ratio of the ABU would suggest it will require more work to turn the handle.... but the smaller diameter spool should offset that, right? And the opposite: The Calcutta D has a lower gear ratio would should increas its "power", but is that offset by the taller, larger diameter spool? In the end... are these reels EQUALS in regard to work required to retrieve the same amount of line under high resistance? If yes, then ABU will be my choice as it will save me $80 ($300 for ABU vs $380 for Shimano). I have no concerns regarding durability of either reel... as my Winch has been flawless for 4 seasons.... and my TE has been virtually flawless (intermittent anti reverse issues) for 8 years. Or... I could learn to use the foregrip again and just drop $1000 on The high-speed TRX500HG and retrieve 43-inches of line per crank with a little more work or relax and still bring in 30-inches of line per crank with minimal effort using the low-speed TRX500PG. Oh yeah... I already ruled that out :-O |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Power handle on the Toro.
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | I have the old 5:4:1 revo toro and now a new 5:4:1 toro thats sitting in the box still,no way am I gonna throw tens with them because I have a couple of reels for tens and big rubber.I`m afraid it will pull very hard and break something inside the reel,I will throw doubles 8`s like showgirls and Llungen tails,I liked the old reel so much for all around lures that I had to buy another. |
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Posts: 366
| If the handles are of the same length, then the inches per crank will tell you which is harder to pull the same bait through the water. The faster the lure moves, the more the resistance, and the more work required to overcome that resistance. If the inches per crank are the same then the longer handle reel will be easier because you are able to generate more torque with the same force applied by your hand.
I own a 400D, many CT-400's, and a Winch. I absolutely love the Winch for dbl10's over the 400D, but that is a personal choice. I enjoy being able to throw big blades 12 hours a day all week and not be worn out. Put it on the right rod, and it feels like bass fishing. The saying "speed kills" is definitely true, but it goes for the angler as well as the fish. The 400D is incredible for how far it casts and its smoothness, and the double paddle handle is big and the most comfortable double paddle handle I've ever used.
That said, the NaCL is next on the list and I'll probably get one this spring.
Ryan
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Migizi Fishing Rods has the NaCl reels in the 60 size for both left and right. We also have a few of the high speed versions of 6.4:1. We run show specials on this reel if anyone is interested, please stop by! |
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| I would assume it would be the size of the gears that would make one reel easier to crank over the other in this scenario (disregarding the power handle of the Revo). Not sure if my logic is correct, but the gear ratio alone does not determine anything. For instance, a 400TE and 400 Cardiff each have a 5.1:1 gear ratio, yet it is far easier to retrieve big blades with a TE. The main difference between the Cardiff and the TE in this regard would be the size of the gears.
Therefore, if the gears of the Revo and D are relatively the same I find it hard to believe that there would be a noticeable difference between a 5.4:1 gear ratio and a 5.1:1 gear ratio. I will concede that the 5.1:1 gear ratio will likely offer more power but I would question its magnitude relative to the 5.4:1 gear ratio.
With the line pick up given by the manufacturer differing by only 1" between the two reels I wouldn't base my decision based solely on it, either. Especially since actual line pick up varies from cast to cast based upon the distance of cast (by the amount of line that remains on the spool). Additionally, consider the difference caused by line size.
Again, I'm not 100% on all of this, but it seems logical to me. |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Hmmm... Steves photo comparing the Toro Power Handle to the CalcuttaD paddles is perfect. If the power handle doesn't have issues with engaging on the cast due to no counter balance weight..... I may be headin' in that direction. Unless..... a powerhandle option becomes availalbe for D???? Good thing its only January...... |
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| you can get a calcutta d on ebay for 305 to your door.. not 380 |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I don't think there will be any problems with the handle engaging, it's pretty light weight on the paddle end. |
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Posts: 1158
| It looks to me that the Shimano paddle handle in Steve's pic is slightly turned (considering it is over the Abu handle) which would make the Abu power handle look much longer. Or is that power handle really 3/4" or so longer than the Shimano paddle? |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | About 5/8" longer center of handle nut to center of paddle fastener. The paddle on the Abu is larger, adding a bit extra. |
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Posts: 995
| I know this has been asked but are the new handles on the nacls compatible with the older toros? I have heard both yes and no. Those who say no say it will interfere with the star drag and ive also read on another site that the new handles do not interfere. Can anyone confirm this by any chance? Thanks |
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Posts: 532
Location: Ogden, UTAH 10 minutes from pineview reservoir | power handle on nacl will fit on older toros if used at the longest setting not sure about the double paddle handle |
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Posts: 339
Location: Lake County Illinois | I am curious also about putting the nacl double handles on my older revo toros and have heard mixed answers as far as having to replace the star drag also or not,handled the nacl at the chicago muskie show and the handles felt great!When i get a chance i will call Dale at Abu service dept and find out pricing and what i need to replace for sure as hes always been very helpful. |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | With the giant power handle on the NaCL, perhaps the higher gear ratio should be considered? The 6.4:1 gears bring in 31 inches. Perhaps I should be comparison shopping this reel to the Power Gear Tranx? Although, I doubt the power handle on the NaCL can reduce the work requires to bring in 31 inches per crank to match the similar 30 incher per crank generated by the 4.6:1 gears of the Tranx PG? Perhaps Shimano will introduce a smaller version of the Tranx for palmers? Until then... it still appears we have to compromise somewhere.....  |
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| Can the older & newer Toro in high speed burn 10's effectively? Or will it tear the reels up? |
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Posts: 1098
| You wil tear your arms Down first:P |
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| I just received an Nacl today, really nice reel. I tested the line out clicker for the heck of it and it broke with half of crank, which I have never seen before, but I don't use the clicker anyways. It is a nice compliment to my 400D, I will say the nacl's look pretty darn cool. BR |
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Posts: 379
Location: Thief River Falls MN | Look real cool on St Croix LT rods... |
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Posts: 122
| Now that everyone has had a season with these 2 reels which have you found you prefer? |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I used bot brands all season. Ended up using the Revo in the 60 the most, mostly because I like the way it fits my hand. No issues with either brand. The Shimano feels smoother overall, but not by a ton, both cast and retrieve nicely. Good reels. |
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Posts: 1660
Location: central Wisconsin | I own both models and can echo Steve's comment. No problems with either one, The NACL fits my hand better and I like being able to adjust the brakes on the fly. The Calcutta cast and reels smoother and a little quieter. I just bought another NACL off of the BST forum. |
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Posts: 1294
Location: Walker, MN | There are always a few exceptions but I have not heard anything bad said about the revo's or Nacl's by people who actually put them to the test. Like many others here I started out fishing the ambassadors decades ago and migrated toward shimanos because they have always been right there in terms of innovation, durability and refinement. I have fished mostly revos the past four seasons and can say that people should forget what they thought of Abu 5-10 years ago, these are rock solid reels at great price points. I feel I can't comment on the Calcutta D as I have only made a few hundred casts with one. |
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Posts: 404
Location: Lakeville, MN | i really enjoy the nacl reels |
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Posts: 123
| My experience has been that the Revo Toro 6:4:1 is not suitable for DBL10's. I wore one out trying. I love it though. You can retrieve 8's and 9's all day with it. Also, Cablea's has it for $199 right now! The Revo Winch at 4:6:1 is great for slow rolling big blades, and working slower baits like phantom's, manta's etc. but you will wear the hell out of your wrist if you try to "burn" anything on it. The 5:4:1 is a nice reel with all around use, I haven't casted 10's with it yet. I'd like to know how that feels. I'd love to test out a D too.
I had a NACL 50 @ 6:4:1, ended up selling it cause it was too small. I loved the handles though and I will probably buy a 60 5:4:1 before next season.
Just thought I'd throw in that I use the Daiwa Saltist 20-HC for both big blades and big rubber. I have one on a 8ft Jawbreaker that's a dreamy setup for big rubber. My other is on a 8'6" Fenewick for big blades. |
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Posts: 404
Location: Lakeville, MN | The 5:4 with the power handle is awesome for pretty much everything exc for really burning blades and big rubber imo seems like I really have to work to keep up on line slack fishing pounders |
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | I had the Calcutta D and the fact that it didn't have a non disengaging levelwind drove me crazy. It does have a narrow spool but the line angle at times is still pretty steep and bothered me. Returned it and got a NaCL 60 and love it. Although for some some reason I find the button hard to push down at times, but this is really being picky.
I also have the tranx PG, and I can tell you that is one hell of a reel. In fact too much for me.
my two cents.......
Rob |
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Posts: 2097
| The non disengaged levelwind gives me no issues. |
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Posts: 1
| I've got the Calcutta d 400 it handles every huge bait I throw on lotw
Paired with a sling blade it couldn't be happier with its performance 400 d for sure |
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