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Posts: 2097
| So after consulting with my reel guy he said if I put a ljv handle on the tranx it will have more leverage but I will lose a couple inches on the retrieve. I got it yesterday and went to the river to test. I have a full spool on my tranx and with the new handle I would say it pulled the dcg 30-40% easier than it did with the stock handle. I uses a normal retrieve and it was comfortable the whole hour I casted. I have a 400d that I just spooled up with 65lb slick and tested some double 8's and it pulled the same as the double 10 on the tranx. For 38$ plus shipping I am more than pleased with the handle. Also no problems engaging on the cast and I was really launching the baits. |
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| Interesting on the ease of retrieve, but may want to ask your "reel guy" how changing the handle will effect the amount of line pick up...impossible unless gears are changed. |
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Posts: 147
Location: Northern New Jersey | Marshall - 1/12/2013 9:25 AM
Interesting on the ease of retrieve, but may want to ask your "reel guy" how changing the handle will effect the amount of line pick up...impossible unless gears are changed.
thats what i was thinking too? i thought a revolution of the handle is a revoltion whether you have a 2x4 handle or a safety pin. |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Which spins faster to cover the same ground, a small tire or a large tire?
Faster to cover the same amount of ground is more work. |
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Posts: 1100
| You should have the same line pick up as before, one rotation on the drive shaft = 6.6 rotations on the spool, gear ratio 1:6.6. the less effort is because of the increase in the length of the "lever" you are using to turn the drive shaft. |
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Posts: 814
| Zinox..I think your wrong on this but I could be too:)
If the handle is longer then one revolution would pick up more line correct? Imo the larger handle has a greater circumference so the spool should turn more times vs using a smaller handle. ie a 22" tall tire covers more ground than a 16" tire for one complete revolution. |
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Posts: 1100
| Yes a bigger tire covers more ground, but in is this case we don´t change the diameter of the tire(spool), we just change the way we but the power into the tire(spool). |
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Posts: 2024
| mskyhntr - 1/12/2013 2:49 PM
Zinox..I think your wrong on this but I could be too:)
If the handle is longer then one revolution would pick up more line correct? Imo the larger handle has a greater circumference so the spool should turn more times vs using a smaller handle. ie a 22" tall tire covers more ground than a 16" tire for one complete revolution.
Exactly! 1 revolution will pick up more line, as the longer handle turns the gears more with each revolution of the handle. Can you turn a longer handle as fast as a shorter handle is the question that needs to be answered. That will be the speed gain. |
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Posts: 1100
| Try to draw a mark on your spool.
Grab the handle and make 1 revolution while you count how many turns the spool make. After this you mark spot on the nut that holds the handle in place, now while graping the nut(not the handle), you make 1 new revolution, again while you count the number of turns the spool make.
In both cases the spool will turn 6.6 times ( if the gear ratio is 6.6:1)
Even if you increased the handle length to 8 foot, and turned it 1 revolution it would still result in the spool turning 6.6 times around, and sins the spool is still the same diameter as before, the spool will still pick up the same amount of line as before. |
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Posts: 1278
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Zinox is right. The easiest way to visualize--Tape a stick to one end of the handle. One turn of the handle is still one turn, the outer end of the stick just traveled a greater distance than the original paddle on your handle. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Less work. |
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Posts: 283
| I am going to have to agree with Zinox on this one...
The length of the handle is only going to affect how easy it is to make the spool revolve. Without changing the diameter/circumference of the gears or spools, the amount of line pickup is going to be the same. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Guys, Zinox has this right. The spool revolutions do not change (+ or -) with one turn of the handle no matter how long the handle is. That is completely determined by the gear ratio of the reel which is constant. What does change is the work (effort) required to turn the spool. |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Right. Less work. |
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Posts: 1100
| This post have nothing to do with the amount off line pick up, this is why it is easier to turn the handle with a power handle.
It takes a certain amount of work to turn the drive shaft once.
Work [Newton*meter] = force[newton]*distance[meters]
If the work required to turn the handle once is fx 5 joule (N*m)
Handle 1 = 0,08 meter (3.14 inch)
Handle 2 = 0,16 meter (6.28 Inch) increase of 100%
X(beeing the force you are applying to the reel)
Handle 1
5 [N*m)= x[N]*(0,08[meter]*2*pi) => X=9.94N(the force you feel in your hand) the
Handle 2
5 [N*m]= x[N]*(0,16[meter]*2*pi) => X=4.97N (the force you feel in your hand) decrease of 50%
The work is still the same but you are applying it over a greater distance.
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Posts: 1660
Location: central Wisconsin | Less work, more leverage, no different than adding a power handle to your Calcuttas, Line retrieval inches remains the same but it takes less physical effort. Simple math. |
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Location: Okoboji | Where is pike master |
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Posts: 313
Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | I believe that more science/physics/math ought to be taught in our schools! |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What may have been meant was 'losing a couple inches' on the retrieve due to the longer handle if considering elapsed time per revolution; the amount of time at a particular 'reeling' speed it takes to get one revolution, nothing to do with the gear ratio.
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Posts: 2378
| thrax_johnson - 1/13/2013 6:54 AM I believe that more science/physics/math ought to be taught in our schools!
no kidding.first thing i did when i got my tranx was put on an ljv handle. i should be a reel guy...
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Posts: 147
Location: Northern New Jersey | yeah i think sworall has it. maybe he meant per turn of the handle. |
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Posts: 1100
| Bmxrider we are all talking about line retrieve per one turn on the handle. |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I am not, and apparently neither was cave run legend |
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Posts: 1100
| Well in that case, its a question of how much easier it is to turn a power handle compared to the longer distance you have to move it, but then its also a question of how much resistance there is from the bait.
Eg.
A smakl bucktail size 4, could be retrieved faster with a stock handle, vs power handle. Because of the smaller circumference.
But where as a DC13 could be retrieved faster with a power handle vs a stock handle. Because of the less force required. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yep. |
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Posts: 93
| I put a handle from a Trinidad on my Tranx HG. Huge difference in EASE of retrieve.I wouldn't be without it now. The PG doesn't need the longer handle. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | kodiak - 1/12/2013 8:14 PM
Where is pike master
OK I have been watching this post and here are my thoughts, a longer handle does not allow you to apply more torque to the spool, that is a factor of the gearing. Having a longer handle gives you more LEVERAGE which allows you to APPLY the same amount of torque to the spool with less effort. On a fishing reel the torque is not applied directly to the spool, on a reel it goes though a gear reduction. So on a drive shaft gear having lets say with a 5.0:1 ratio, the main gear has 5 times as many teeth then the pinion gear so you have a 5.0:1 ratio. This will create a mechanical advantage of a 5.0:1 to apply to the spool. What alot guys also forget about is a fishing reel also has a DRAG, that will only allow a certain amount of torque to ever be applied. So while a longer handle gives you more LEVERAGE and allows you to more easily apply the torque to the gears, the spool is turned as the result of a mechanical advantage of the reels gearing. |
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Posts: 532
| PIKEMASTER - 1/13/2013 9:28 PM
kodiak - 1/12/2013 8:14 PM
Where is pike master
OK I have been watching this post and here are my thoughts, a longer handle does not allow you to apply more torque to the spool, that is a factor of the gearing. Having a longer handle gives you more LEVERAGE which allows you to APPLY the same amount of torque to the spool with less effort. On a fishing reel the torque is not applied directly to the spool, on a reel it goes though a gear reduction. So on a drive shaft gear having lets say with a 5.0:1 ratio, the main gear has 5 times as many teeth then the pinion gear so you have a 5.0:1 ratio. This will create a mechanical advantage of a 5.0:1 to apply to the spool. What alot guys also forget about is a fishing reel also has a DRAG, that will only allow a certain amount of torque to ever be applied. So while a longer handle gives you more LEVERAGE and allows you to more easily apply the torque to the gears, the spool is turned as the result of a mechanical advantage of the reels gearing.
Applying the same amout of torque with less effort is the same as saying you have more torque. Think about it, this is the same person using the reel, if the longer handle now takes 80% the effort to achieve the same torque as the shorter handle. The same person now can exert 100% the effort with a longer handle to achieve a higher torque on the reel.
The torque that a person inputs in the reel handle is transfered through the whole drive train of the reel. Keeping in mind there will be a small amount lost due to friction. But if the main gear is seeing 5ft/lbs so is the pinion gear. Weather or not that is enough torque to move what on the other end doesnt matter, the torque is still in the system.
CRL, inches per crank is the same weather you have a short reel handle or a 6 foot handle. A reel handle can not change that. What it does change is the torque you input in to the reel, that changes the effort required to move what ever is on the other end, with the trade off of a longer stroke.
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Posts: 147
Location: Northern New Jersey | i think we are gettin somewhere |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | inches per crank is the same weather (edit: whether) you have a short reel handle or a 6 foot handle. A reel handle can not change that.
I don't think anyone said it would. That was clarified already. |
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Posts: 1100
| If i throw a DC10 into the water, and want to retrieve it as fast as possible. What should i use a stock handle a a power handle?
Edit: Reformulation. |
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Posts: 147
Location: Northern New Jersey | Zinox - 1/14/2013 4:06 AM
If i throw a DC10 into the water, and want to retrieve it as fast as possible. What should i use a stock handle a a power handle?
Edit: Reformulation.
lol i think you already know the answer to this seeing that you proved the physics behind the fact. torque= force(in newtons) x distance of lever (in meters). So without knowing exactly how much force you are putting on what length handle to reel in a DC10, the answer is unobtainable, but one can hypothesize. In my eyes, it really just comes down to preference and people always need the next best thing and need to justify it. if you take a liking to something, stick with it. if not, on to the next one.
(i haven't had my coffee yet) |
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Posts: 432
Location: Eagan, MN | Sworrall has it exactly right. This was covered in 11th grade physics, guys. |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The issue at hand is not burning here. It's whether the retrieve is 'slower' with a power handle. It is overall, because it takes longer to turn the power handle.
If you want to burn big baits without wearing yourself to a nub, get the reel with the most line picked up per turn of the handle that will hold up to the abuse, and the power handle that will allow use for extended periods of time without physical exhaustion/abuse. Match 'em up, and there you have it. |
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| wow, some in this thread might need to go back to school! 
I'll chime in and say to the question about putting on the power handle or stock handle...be careful what some manufacturers call a "power handle" ..i.e. Abu Toro's power handle isn't ANY longer than the stock double paddle handle...so if you want to add a better handle to that reel slap on a TE power handle...works great and actually provies more leverage to make slow rolling a breeze.... |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | My thoughts on handle length, Lets take a ABU 6500 it comes with a very small 3 1/2 inch handle length, so you would think you could turn it faster then say a 5" long handle, but on the 3 1/2" handle you end up using more of a wrist action to turn the 3 1/2 " handle and on the 5" handle you will use your forearm action more to turn the 5" handle. The forearm action is much more comfortable and less stressfull , therefore it's just as fast to crank, and you end up cranking faster than a small handle because it is less stressfull and more comfortable so you will be faster.
Also as I said in my post above a longer handle will give you more LEVERAGE over a short handle, both the short and the long handles will apply the same amount of torque to the spool but the longer handle will have more LEVERAGE and you will have less effort on a long handle and you will be faster then a short handle.
IPT inches per turn on a reel, the line pickup, the handle length will not change the IPT, the 3 things that will is 1 - gear ratio, 2 - spool circumference, and 3 -the amount of line on the spool. |
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Posts: 532
| Leverage IS torque. Longer handle = more torque to the spool. A human can only put so much power to the reel, if you increase the leverage by putting on a power handle you increase the pulling power of the reel. Since the reel works off of shafts in rotation the force measured is called Torque.
Also the empty dia of the spool has no meaning to the inches per crank, number 2 on your list. Its the dia of the spool with the line on it that matters, its a dymanic, it is always changeing as you retrieve your cast inches per crank increases as your bait gets close to you. So the correct list would be 1. gear ratio 2. Dia of spool with the line on it. |
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Posts: 231
| PIKEMASTER - 1/14/2013 5:46 PMon the 3 1/2" handle you end up using more of a wrist action to turn the 3 1/2 " handle and on the 5" handle you will use your forearm action more to turn the 5" handle. The forearm action is much more comfortable and less stressfull , therefore it's just as fast to crank, and you end up cranking faster than a small handle because it is less stressfull and more comfortable so you will be faster.
Right on! Once I put the LJV handle on my Tranx, it was noticeably easier for me to achieve the same thing. I'm not a rocket scientist on my way to NASA either.
I just actually have the reel, put the different handle on, and used it.
No need to over think this.LOL |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | anzomcik - 1/14/2013 6:43 PM
Leverage IS torque. Longer handle = more torque to the spool. A human can only put so much power to the reel, if you increase the leverage by putting on a power handle you increase the pulling power of the reel. Since the reel works off of shafts in rotation the force measured is called Torque.
Also the empty dia of the spool has no meaning to the inches per crank, number 2 on your list. Its the dia of the spool with the line on it that matters, its a dymanic, it is always changeing as you retrieve your cast inches per crank increases as your bait gets close to you. So the correct list would be 1. gear ratio 2. Dia of spool with the line on it.
In my opion a longer handle allows you to apply more LEVERAGE and allows you to more easily apply the torque to the gears, the spool is turrned as the result of a mechanical advantage of the reels gearing. Whatever the case of torque and leverage the handle will turn easily and that works for me. Also don't forget the factor that fishing reels are not hard splined to the drive gear, there is where the drag comes into play, the drag will only allow a certain amount of torque to ever be applied, after that it makes no difference you can only apply a set amount of torque, before it overcomes the drag ability to prevent it from slipping. |
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Posts: 1100
| anzomcik - 1/14/2013 6:43 PM
Leverage IS torque. Longer handle = more torque to the spool. A human can only put so much power to the reel, if you increase the leverage by putting on a power handle you increase the pulling power of the reel. Since the reel works off of shafts in rotation the force measured is called Torque.
Agreed but i would rather use the word force instead of power.
And as says Pikemaster there is a certain limit of torque you can apply to the spool, becasue of the drag. But if someone is able get the drag to slip when you burn your big blades eg dc10, imho he´s drag is set way to loose. |
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| How would the HG with the LJV handle compare to use the PG with the stock handle for reeling in double tens and slack on big rubber? What im going to get mine for.. |
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | I thought about it...no...its not the same thing at all. Now "torque" and "work" are being confused.
Anyway...thanks, Pikemaster (and VMS), for again making sense in this discussion. |
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Location: Okoboji | how much do the ljv handles cost? i am thinking on this |
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Posts: 1318
Location: Lebanon,Mo | kodiak - 1/17/2013 7:42 AM
how much do the ljv handles cost? i am thinking on this
About $40...through Shimano or Daves Reel Service. |
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tranx hg with ljv handle is night and day.