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Posts: 186
Location: Waconia, MN | So I was a little bored today and came up with a spreadsheet that I have thought about for a while now. Never really been too scientific about what lures at what speeds with what amount of line out will run at what depth. So I set this up and plan on doing some leg work come spring time to enter in all of the data for all of my favorite trolling baits. There are several more lures listed on the spreadsheet but I only took a picture of the top half. Obviously the empty cells on the spreadsheet will have the amount of line needed to achieve the desired depths.
The water temps in relation to the trolling speed are just general guidelines according to Jim Saric in his book Muskies My Way. Once I get all of the data collected I plan on laminating a copy and keeping on my boat as a quick reference.
I would appreciate any feedback or suggestions any of you have on how I could improve this, thanks!
(Trolling Spreadsheet.jpg)
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 Trolling Spreadsheet.jpg (275KB - 3344 downloads)
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Posts: 1286
Location: WI | Pretty cool. Just don't live and die by those speeds. In early Nov I was trolling in 41* water just over 3mph and caught a fish in the prop wash while turning. I bet the bait was going pretty fast when the fish hit. I also caught a couple fish while slowing down to reel lines in. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I did this this past year I used data from Muskie Mike's plus adusted for my own situation. I only did it for the lures I use a lot most of which arn't in Muskie Mikes. If I didn't have my own data I picked the brains of friends and manufactures. I laminated the info of the lures I use most on two sides of a card but if doing it again I would use one side and use the other side for taking notes with a dry erase pen. For the entire spreadsheet I put it on my phone using a spreadsheet app.
I understand Drifter was talking doing a Muskie Mike Trolling App . There is a Muskie Mike App out there now but it is not what you want and not to usefull. |
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Keeping a dive curve data sheet will only get you close to the depth you think your crankbait is down at a given speed.One thing to consider is that no two crankbaits are the same , plastic molding sometimes you get more density plastic in one part of the lure body, not always uniform and can change the dive angle.The Same goes for wood crankbait's, not every peice of wood has the same grain & density.So two depthraiders or two Wiley's can have a different dive curve.You must check the actual depth of each crankbait by putting out line till it touches bottom at a given depth & speed.Record this on a piece of white surgical tape and place the info tape where the crankbait hangs in your tackle box.Now when you grab a certIan crankbait you know exactly how much line to put out for the depth you want at a given speed.
Edited by LarryJones 1/6/2013 9:38 AM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | As Larry said dive curves only give you ballpark another thing to consider is that water density changes with temperature and lures will react differently at diferent water temperatures as well as speed. This is most apparent when casting with some jerkbaits that have great action in warm water but act totally different in very cold water. |
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Posts: 186
Location: Waconia, MN | Great feedback guys, thanks! I didn't consider the lure or water density factors. Do you think these 2 factors would effect a lures running depth by 1 or 2 feet or possibly even more? I kind of like the idea of the tape in the tackle box. The only issue I might have with that is all my buddies digging through my tackle boxes and never putting things back in the same place.....
Someone PM'd me and noted a lure depth chart in Tom Gelbs new book, Musky Strategy. In checking it out I noticed that he is more detailed in terms of actual depth, ( 4', 6', 8', 10' ect.) but doesn't factor in trolling speed. In your own personal opinions, do you think that factoring each lure at 2 mph, 3 mph, 4 mph, 5 mph, and 6 mph is overkill? Perhaps if it wouldn't be a huge difference I could just do 2,4, and 6 and figure out the differene in my head when trolling speeds in between those benchmarks? |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | If your fishing high in the water 1 or 2 feet is not going to be critical if you want to bump bottom let out line till you just touch then bring it up a tad. Dive curves are starting points and more usefull for lure selection. Guys I know are more apt to adjust speeds in terms of tenths of a MPH and in high current areas like the Larry adjust for up and down current.
Tom does a lot of row trolling so possibly dosen't have much speed range (I haven't seen the book yet )
Edited by horsehunter 1/6/2013 1:03 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Lures have a max atainable depth and at some point longer leads will start to cause them to start lo lift. this is also why more depth can be achieved with thinner line diameter. Some go very slow in cold water with good results but you must have a lure with good action at very slow speeds. |
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| We troll a lot of Lighting Shad on Alum Creek in the spring and depending on water temps the rattles in them heat up at the faster speeds and the body of the lure expands then blows out of the water or you loose action of the bait. The body gets soft after long periods of trolling and changes shape, after taking it out for a while it goes back and is fine again. This is the only bait I know of that does this but I wonder about other rattle baits trolled at high speeds. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So whats a Lighting Shad google brought back nothing? |
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | For those trolling speeds of 2.5 to 2.0 mph Leadcore Line will take lures as big as Legend Plow's down to depths you can't reach with mono or powerbraid. |
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| Try this google Storm Lightning Shad |
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| LarryJones - 1/6/2013 9:33 AM
Keeping a dive curve data sheet will only get you close to the depth you think your crankbait is down at a given speed.One thing to consider is that no two crankbaits are the same , plastic molding sometimes you get more density plastic in one part of the lure body, not always uniform and can change the dive angle.The Same goes for wood crankbait's, not every peice of wood has the same grain & density.So two depthraiders or two Wiley's can have a different dive curve.You must check the actual depth of each crankbait by putting out line till it touches bottom at a given depth & speed.Record this on a piece of white surgical tape and place the info tape where the crankbait hangs in your tackle box.Now when you grab a certIan crankbait you know exactly how much line to put out for the depth you want at a given speed.
oh take it easy a wiley or a believer is not gonna go 1 feet depper than another that is exactly the same model |
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Posts: 216
Location: Middletown, Ohio | horsehunter - 1/6/2013 6:44 PM
So whats a Lighting Shad google brought back nothing?
Do a search on eBay under crankbaits for "slab shad" a guy on there has some copies of the original storm lighting shad.They run as good as the old bait and they are a lot cheaper than trying to by the orginals
Mark |
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Guest - 1/6/2013 8:38 PM
LarryJones - 1/6/2013 9:33 AM
Keeping a dive curve data sheet will only get you close to the depth you think your crankbait is down at a given speed.One thing to consider is that no two crankbaits are the same , plastic molding sometimes you get more density plastic in one part of the lure body, not always uniform and can change the dive angle.The Same goes for wood crankbait's, not every peice of wood has the same grain & density.So two depthraiders or two Wiley's can have a different dive curve.You must check the actual depth of each crankbait by putting out line till it touches bottom at a given depth & speed.Record this on a piece of white surgical tape and place the info tape where the crankbait hangs in your tackle box.Now when you grab a certIan crankbait you know exactly how much line to put out for the depth you want at a given speed.
oh take it easy a wiley or a believer is not gonna go 1 feet depper than another that is exactly the same model
For a crankbait to get to its optimum depth it first must run perfectly straight,any directional change out to the side however slight will take away from its dive curve.Changing hooks to a different weight will change the dive curve,adding bigger hook to the tail will cause more wobble and less depth.Water soaking into wood lures over long use will also change the dive curve.You can believe what you want but not every crankbait of the same style will dive the same depth.If you do not want to test them and find out the depths at different speeds,with or again'st current,your only guessing the depth your at.Following structure not only do you need to know depth ,but also distance from the boat at that depth to make turns on structure edges.Also not every crankbait will catch fish and only some catch big fish,I may start the year with 48 crankbaits the same design and color,usualy only 40% of those make the tackle box,the others get sold on eBay.There are many varibles to different types of line used as well. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Another way to get in the ball park is to put your rod tip 1 foot from the surface and note how far back the line enters the water. If its 3 feet your going down APROX. 1 foot in 3 so if you wanted to go down 10 you would let out 30 or 45 for 15 etc. |
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Posts: 186
Location: Waconia, MN | horsehunter - 1/7/2013 2:23 PM
Another way to get in the ball park is to put your rod tip 1 foot from the surface and note how far back the line enters the water. If its 3 feet your going down APROX. 1 foot in 3 so if you wanted to go down 10 you would let out 30 or 45 for 15 etc.
Wow, does it work exactly like that? That is brilliant if I does. I never thought or heard of that but it does make sense, thanks! |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Like I said it's ballpark just a starting point. I used this for years wirelining for lake trout long before linecounter reels. I would mark the rod 2 feet from the reel and pull the line out in 2 foot pulls which I allways felt was more accurate than counting wraps or passes. I am old enough to remember when a local guy would for $10 drill the sideplate of a Penn 209 reel and fit the odometer from a bicycle which gave you a pretty accurate linecounter reel
Edited by horsehunter 1/7/2013 7:43 PM
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