|
|
Posts: 174
Location: Ontario | A couple of months ago,I visited a taxidermist in Ontario who specializes in reproductions. Im getting a muskie done that was caught and released last year.
After working out the details of the work,we started to discuss techniques and styles of bait used by many of his customers.
He then told me that 10 of the biggest fish brought into his shop over the years all had one common fish in their bellies,and asked me to guess. Suckers,crappie,walleye,bass,???
Nope... Catfish !!
Will post a photo of reproduction when ready |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bullheads are definitely on the menu. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20212
Location: oswego, il | Thats why I put cornmeal in the clearcoat of my baits. |
|
| |
|
| Muskyfix has a channelcat pattern for his modivators that's pretty cool |
|
| |
|
Posts: 455
| You would think that the fins on a cat fish would do some damage to a muskies belly. Interesting. |
|
| |
|
Location: Eastern Ontario | Not much different than dorsal spines on bass or sunfish |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2010
| chasintails - 12/13/2012 7:33 AM
You would think that the fins on a cat fish would do some damage to a muskies belly. Interesting.
They are going to try and kill it before swallowing but I'm sure they often do get their throat all slashed up....muskies aren't smart they just eat, monster muskies choke on large meals and die, a 60" fish was found dead with a large carp stuck in its throat a few years back...by the time they are 20+ years old you would think they would know what they could try and eat? Stupid fish
Edited by IAJustin 12/13/2012 7:53 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 173
| 80% of the fish biomass in the Ottawa is catfish. Muskies might eat a lot of the most common fish ? |
|
| |
|
| that's they reason why they swallow bullhead and other fish head first.i just hope anglers will not start to love the taste of catfish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Catfish is VERY popular as table fare. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2010
| larryc - 12/13/2012 8:10 AM
80% of the fish biomass in the Ottawa is catfish. Muskies might eat a lot of the most common fish ?
there are over 75 species of fish present in the Ottawa and catfish make up 80%? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 415
| sworrall - 12/13/2012 9:14 AM
Catfish is VERY popular as table fare.
Yup, and if caught from the right water they are quite tasty. The best catfish I ever ate my buddies caught trolling for Kings on Lake Michigan on a downrigger 80ft down over 160 feet of water. Delicious! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 280
Location: McFarland | Has anybody ever tried bullhead/catfish as bait on a quick strike? Might hurt hooking them up I suppose but could be worthwhile... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20
Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky | ski' patrol - 12/13/2012 9:56 AM
Has anybody ever tried bullhead/catfish as bait on a quick strike? Might hurt hooking them up I suppose but could be worthwhile...
I have been wanting to try it. Thought about trimming the spines with pliers. Think about how hard it is to hook a muskie, those spines probably don't bother them. Little catfish make wonderful big catfish bait. I was fishin a pond one time in a boat. Found a 6-7 pounder with a 1/2 pounder (both catfish) stuck in it's mouth, with a crawfish jig in its mouth, wrapped around the log. Cut the fins off the little one and freed the big one. Funny. |
|
| |
|
Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Favorite muskie meal...My first reaction is to post a wise crack like "my favorite muskie meal is fillet on the grill, skin side down, basted with some garlic butter, with a big platter of home made fries", but I thought better of it. 
Talked to many taxidermists over the years (WI), bullhead and crappie seemed to be the choice, crappies especially in the fall. There was a study done on the Manitowish Chain a few years ago suggested soft fin forage, mainly ciscos, made up the majority of muskies' stomach content.
JS |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | i was thinking the same thing Jay when I saw the thread title....
wasn't there an article in MHunter within the last year or 2 that was a study of stomach contents and the majority at least on this lake or chain were small perch???
I had heard from a dnr bioligist the muskies in the madison chain sure like sheepshead
Edited by BNelson 12/13/2012 10:58 AM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Brad, yeah I think there was an article in MH a few years ago, but thought the results were ciscos. But, my memory isn't what it used to be. Maybe Jordan can chime in here and set it straight. I think Kopke was familiar with the study as well.
JS |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| They eat. Whatever there is to eat. Different lakes have different forage. From everything I've read, they prefer redhorse, ciscoes, fatty pelagic baitfish, much like we would prefer a nice steak or a deep dish pizza. But if there's no steak and no pizza, and we're hungry? Whatever is around gets eaten.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | I've rigged up channel cats on the Croix 4 or 5 times and let them drag behind. Never got touched, but it's been August/September. Never tried it in the fall. |
|
| |
|
| larryc - 12/13/2012 8:10 AM
80% of the fish biomass in the Ottawa is catfish. Muskies might eat a lot of the most common fish ?
with all the pressure perch and crappies,walleyes gets from fisherman it's quite possible.
do you have by chance a link for these studies?? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 280
| Here is some information from a Musky Hunter magazine a few years back.
It's from a study conducted from 1991-1994, in 34 different bodies of water in Wisconsin. 1,092 muskies were examined, of which 375 stomachs had something in them, containing 582 food items. Here's a portion of the chart that contains the most common items.
PREY/Total # Found/# of Stomachs Containing Item/% Frequency/% of Diet (lbs.)
Suckers/49/45/12%/46.6%
Minnows/40/35/9.3%/4.6%
Yellow Perch/175/123/32.8%/16.9%
Panfish/41/34/9.1%/4.5%
Crappies/33/29/7.7%/7.0%
Bass/17/17/4.5%/3.1%
Walleye/5/5/1.3%/3.4%
Pike/Musky/8/8/2.1%/4.7%
Bullhead/5/5/1.3%/2.4%
Unidentified/100/84/22.4%/3.0% |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| Mad Musky - 12/13/2012 4:52 PM
Here is some information from a Musky Hunter magazine a few years back.
It's from a study conducted from 1991-1994, in 34 different bodies of water in Wisconsin. 1,092 muskies were examined, of which 375 stomachs had something in them, containing 582 food items. Here's a portion of the chart that contains the most common items.
PREY/Total # Found/# of Stomachs Containing Item/% Frequency/% of Diet (lbs.)
Suckers/49/45/12%/46.6%
Minnows/40/35/9.3%/4.6%
Yellow Perch/175/123/32.8%/16.9%
Panfish/41/34/9.1%/4.5%
Crappies/33/29/7.7%/7.0%
Bass/17/17/4.5%/3.1%
Walleye/5/5/1.3%/3.4%
Pike/Musky/8/8/2.1%/4.7%
Bullhead/5/5/1.3%/2.4%
Unidentified/100/84/22.4%/3.0%
Kinda proves they'll eat anything. I wonder how much of that has to do with many of the lakes having yellow perch as their main forage component. Seems odd that they would prefer perch over walleye in those numbers unless there were just a lot of perch in the lakes they sampled. Interesting stuff. |
|
| |
|
Location: Minneapolis | here's another interesting study.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/fish_wildlife/fisheries/species/muskie... |
|
| |
|
| it's almost impossible to tell their favorite meal,each body of water is so different,and each place have his own fish species population.i have seen the stomach content of a big fall musky and guess what all the minnow where smaller than 4 inch,so they have no best meal,they are just opportunist feeders.imo they don't get fat and healthy by traveling milles just to find a big school of perch |
|
| |
|
Posts: 173
| Might be able to get a link that's in English. Quebec Ministry published the population survey. "If" Marc still posts here he can link it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| IAJustin - 12/13/2012 9:18 AM
larryc - 12/13/2012 8:10 AM
80% of the fish biomass in the Ottawa is catfish. Muskies might eat a lot of the most common fish ?
there are over 75 species of fish present in the Ottawa and catfish make up 80%?
Biomass refers to the amount of living organisms per unit area. To my knowledge the only ictalurids (catfish spp.) in the Ottawa are channel cats and brown, black, and yellow bullheads. It's true that for several of the reaches of the Ottawa the biomass consists of a disproportionate amount of ictalurids, namely channel catfish. I can't find any publications/documents at the moment other than this website: http://www.briancoad.com/ncr/contentsncr.htm |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| Did anybody catch that there was more than one instance where the prey item found in the stomach contents was a mouse? How does that happen exactly? I'm thinking human intervention? |
|
| |
|
| mice swim. more likely a field mouse hopped in the water and started swimming, but was intercepted en route to its destination... |
|
| |
|
| Please remember when I was a kid we kept most legal muskies that is just what you did back then. I couldn't wait to clean them up to see what was in thier stomaches. Some odd things I remember... a red eyed wiggler spoon in one and a small painted turtle in another and of course countless fish from minnows to 15 inch walleyes. Have been all about catch and release since about 1984. I do miss disecting the stomachs though to see what they were eating. Did have a 52 incher die about 15 years my neighbor and taxidermy man called me over when he skinned it. He had 2 very large crayfish sitting on the table. Looked like they could walk away. That fish grabbed to crayfish then inhaled a 9 inch Wiley Lure. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| Guest - 12/13/2012 7:45 PM
mice swim. more likely a field mouse hopped in the water and started swimming, but was intercepted en route to its destination...
All animals can swim. (Based on the hamsters I had as a kid that escaped and met their demise in our sump pit, though, they can't swim for very long...) But why would they be in the water in the first place? |
|
| |
|
| this can't possibly be a serious question, but in case it is... why wouldn't they be in the water? why do we see deer swimming? bears? squirrels? these are terrestrial animals trying to get somewhere... it ain't rocket science. occam's razor. don't over-think it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| Nice analogy - but when you see a deer or a moose or a bear in the water, it stands to reason that there's a legitimate reason for them to be there. Perhaps they are trying to get to food, or mates. From an evolutionary standpoint, the rewards of that behavior outweigh the potential risks of being in the water. But toss a frog on the water, and what does it do? It immediately heads for the shoreline, for cover, to avoid potentially being prey to all of the things that can and will readily eat it. There is no legitimate reason for something like a mouse to traverse a stretch of water where it may potentially become lunch for whatever is in that water. I can see finding ducklings, or a muskrat, or perhaps a small otter in the stomach of a muskie. Those are animals that largely dwell in and feed in water. It stands to reason. But a mouse? Land dwelling rodent that has much more to lose by being in the water than it possibly would have to gain. |
|
| |
|
| if you think there is no legitimate reason for a mouse to enter the water, then you seriously underestimate an animal's desire and need to eat. hunger is a huge driving force in nature. causes truly odd behavior. have you seen the footage of the pigeon eating wels catfish? why would an aquatic animal risk killing itself for a bird? hmm... could it be food? GASP! why would a killer whale drive its 1,000+lb body into inches of water, risking a pretty good chance of beaching itself, to snatch a seal on shore. hmm... could it be food? GASP! by your rationale, i should never have encountered (unless a human put them there) raccoons on multiple islands in the everglades, including in the gulf of mexico. god knows there's all sorts of stuff swimming in the water that could shred a raccoon in minutes.
you're thinking too linearly if you can't allow for the fact that something other than human intervention would drive a mouse to take a risk such as diving into the water to swim between habitats.
anyway... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| Guest - 12/13/2012 10:49 PM
if you think there is no legitimate reason for a mouse to enter the water, then you seriously underestimate an animal's desire and need to eat. hunger is a huge driving force in nature. causes truly odd behavior. have you seen the footage of the pigeon eating wels catfish? why would an aquatic animal risk killing itself for a bird? hmm... could it be food? GASP! why would a killer whale drive its 1,000+lb body into inches of water, risking a pretty good chance of beaching itself, to snatch a seal on shore. hmm... could it be food? GASP! by your rationale, i should never have encountered (unless a human put them there) raccoons on multiple islands in the everglades, including in the gulf of mexico. god knows there's all sorts of stuff swimming in the water that could shred a raccoon in minutes.
you're thinking too linearly if you can't allow for the fact that something other than human intervention would drive a mouse to take a risk such as diving into the water to swim between habitats.
anyway...
Well, that's all very nice. And it's all completely unrelated to mice. There is nothing in their diet that would ever require them to traverse water in order to eat. Maybe they have evolved more than we thought, and some have learned to read posts like yours and decided to end it all because they just couldn't deal with the stupid...
|
|
| |
|
| What was that story about some sick bastard (probably more than one) putting a string on a mouse and plopping down on a piece of board in the middle of the lake? Then, pull on the string, mouse off the board, swim, swim, swim, back on the board, over and over and over again untiiil… *WHAM!!* "Hey look!" the muskie thinks "new forage!!" That's where all of those ingested mice came from. Just my theory. I think it's pretty mean to the poor mice, but it has to be kind of funny to watch. Who doesn't love a surface bait? ; ) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| esoxaddict - 12/13/2012 11:53 PM
Well, that's all very nice. And it's all completely unrelated to mice. There is nothing in their diet that would ever require them to traverse water in order to eat. Maybe they have evolved more than we thought, and some have learned to read posts like yours and decided to end it all because they just couldn't deal with the stupid...
esoxaddict,
I have many less hours on the water than you and proportionately many less hours fishing musky, but wake up....Nothing in nature requires any animal to do anything, but to survive in the easiest way possible. If you were a mouse and you, like that dumb mouse, realize there is a nice Oak tree with acorns on that island 20 or 50 feet from shore and don't smell other mice around, you would go for it right ... Reason (i.e. evolution and feeding habits) tend to make sense from a broad perspective... Simply put, they are all stupid animals to us, but are pretty #*^@ smart that we spend close to half a day (on average) trying to put one in the net... We spend a bunch of the other half espousing our opinions on this or other forums... Mice swim, deer swim and hopefully we all can swim long enough to get back on the boat...Or we hopefuly can afford the $500 insulated float suit that will keep us afloat and alive for 30 minutes... And hopefully we all realize this elusive fish that doesn't eat when we want it to eat and is so hard to catch and ends up making us look like (at great monetary and relationship expense) we don't know wtf we are doing... Mice swim to islands because there is food there...those pine cones and acorns have to be yummy. Musky eat mice because it is food in the water and they see it swimming. A mouse looks a hell of a lot more realistic than my hawg wobblers, and musky eat both right? How many people fish that mile long weed bed because it historically holds fish? So, is the musky more stupid because it eats a fake lure? Is the fisherman more stupid because he spends an hour setting up and fishing that mile of weeds that 10 other boats before fished that day and 20 will after? Or is that 1 dumb mouse that swam 50 feet to reach a cache of nuts the one who will procreate more and therefore provide the apex predator with future bait the smartest of all... Circular arguments usually mean we missed something. How I take it is I need to learn more to become a better fisherman. I can catch northern hand over fist, but not musky. If it takes a dumb mouse to catch one, I will have a bunch of dumb mice in my boat in July. I will bring acorns to keep those dumb mice occupied while I fish too. And when you criticize me, I hopefully will simply wave and hopefully show you a 56 incher that I have caught on a top water lure that kind of looks like a field mouse. That is if you are on the V in July 2013. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3864
| Any toy dog I see in some driver's lap. Great surface bait, twist the line when you troll them. |
|
| |
|
| Ranger - 12/14/2012 1:21 AM Any toy dog I see in some driver's lap. Great surface bait, twist the line when you troll them. They're good as footballs too. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3864
| "Well, that's all very nice. And it's all completely unrelated to mice. There is nothing in their diet that would ever require them to traverse water in order to eat. Maybe they have evolved more than we thought, and some have learned to read posts like yours and decided to end it all because they just couldn't deal with the stupid..."
Ha, I love this sort of #*#*.....
Rodents are great swimmers. Think they paratrooped onto every single island in 10,000 Lakes? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20
Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky | Catfish are not gamefish in ky, therefore legal hook fodder.
I have an idea: mice like boats as homes, especially my boat. I have seen three total hop out in the middle of the lake and swim. Couldn't believe I never saw one "explode". |
|
| |
|
| Guest - 12/13/2012 7:45 PM
mice swim. more likely a field mouse hopped in the water and started swimming, but was intercepted en route to its destination...
I watched a gray squirrel making it's way across a fav. muskie lake her in the Twin Cities a few seasons back. It was fall and my son and I watched it swim across an entire finger of a bay, waiting for the "the swirl".
Never happened. It made it completely across...which sort of surprised us. It's a good lake! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 174
Location: Ontario | Its obvious muskie will prey on whatever is the most bountiful in their water system.And, most of these fish the taxidermist was referencing were caught years ago when harvesting fish was more acceptable. Lets try and fine tune the point of diet.Is it reasonable to consider that these bigger trophy fish get more particular with their diet after 20-30 years of feeding ? I mean these big fish love feeding in the fall prior to the ice...and it seems that big baits work great in these cold conditions.If a 40lb fish only chooses to eat on one big meal,does the meal it chooses not become more select ?
Edited by Tim R 12/14/2012 8:52 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 317
| I have taken black Bulldawgs/Suzy Suckers and attached black Silicone whiskers to the heads. A slow meandering retrieve is deadly. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| I think a more likely scenario is that said mice were a case of someone out on the boat who opened up a compartment for the first time in the spring, got a surprise they weren't expecting, turned to their buddy and said "Hey, man. I don't want these things in my boat! Wanna toss 'em overboard and see how many make it to shore??
I'd probably take them to shore and turn them loose, because they are kind of cute. But I'm not going to pretend the thought wouldn't cross my mind!
In any case, it pretty well proves that anything moving in the water that a muskie can fit in its mouth will eventually wind up there. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8773
| Ranger - 12/14/2012 1:38 AM
"Well, that's all very nice. And it's all completely unrelated to mice. There is nothing in their diet that would ever require them to traverse water in order to eat. Maybe they have evolved more than we thought, and some have learned to read posts like yours and decided to end it all because they just couldn't deal with the stupid..."
Ha, I love this sort of #*#*.....
Rodents are great swimmers. Think they paratrooped onto every single island in 10,000 Lakes?
I was thinking they probably made their way out there when the lakes were frozen. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 174
Location: Ontario | Over 30 years ago,I remember reading about a technique in the southern States where they tied squirrels to a floating piece and have 3 sets of treble hooks tied to the squirrel.Half the body would hang into the water(tail end) and they would drag this critter down a river for muskie. It didnt seem so shocking 30 years ago.Right about the time Deliverence came out |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1529
| st clair the variances are seasonal.
fall=shad
summer=perch/smallmouth
spring=catfish colors/blk sucker/dog turd bait colors. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2258
Location: SE, WI. | I've cleaned pike which had hairy rodents in their stomachs. Not sure if they were mice or small muskrat. Mice will use shore -line related liliy pads to migrate to their destination!!! ; 
Edited by jdsplasher 12/17/2012 6:01 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | "Mice will use shore -line related liliy pads to migrate to their destination!!!"
Yep...quite common to see around "strip mine lakes" down here in the South...my guess is (not unlike when we travel a distance) it's the easiest path between two points...along the side of the lake or even out from the edge a few feet. Safer than what may lurk in the deep grass and what may be using the actual shoreline...at least at times...until big bucket-mouth declares she's present underneath the thick mat!
Seriously, not that uncommon of a sight.
I'm a little surprised that muskies take as much notice as the stated results earlier in the thread, but anything that moves and is an easy meal is food.
Edited by hawkeye9 12/17/2012 7:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| Would the tail of a mouse foul on cast as easy as a bulldawg tail?
|
|
| |
Favorite Muskie Meal ?