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| I know this topic has been beat to death but do flourocarbon leaders really give you an advantage over 7 stand? I've heard people say that its ridiculous to think that a fish would hit based on the leader, but then again why would you throw flourocarbon if it didn't. Some of the places I fish you can see bottom in 15ft of water so I would tend to think flourocarbon could possibly be of an advantage put I have had a hard time keeping my leaders straight when tying them, so I've been using 7 strand more. Any thoughts or input is much appreciated. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | I've been using Floro for the past 6-7 yrs.... With no issues or problems. |
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Posts: 9
| Had a fish bite through 100lb flouro like it was nothing. |
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | deepsouthmusky - 10/15/2012 9:57 PM
Had a fish bite through 100lb flouro like it was nothing.
That's because 100lb flouro is nothing to a Muskie. 180lb or bigger and you'd stop killing muskies! |
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| I've always had a problem with wire leaders kinking and causing unfavorable lure action. Flouro is not foolproof, but is more forgiving when it comes to kinking. I also feel more confident with flouro meaning that I'm fishing harder longer, resulting in more fish (or the opportunity to catch more fish). |
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| I caught a fish this past weekend that had a shredded 7 strand still stuck in its mouth. Removed it and she swam away nicely. |
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Posts: 633
Location: Madison, WI | Tim Schmitz - 10/15/2012 10:44 PM
deepsouthmusky - 10/15/2012 9:57 PM
Had a fish bite through 100lb flouro like it was nothing.
That's because 100lb flouro is nothing to a Muskie. 180lb or bigger and you'd stop killing muskies!
Muskies CAN bite through alot of things, also you can catch a 58 pounder on 8lb test? To suggest you NEED to use 180lb or larger is stupid! Maybe we should all just put a couple links of chain in front of our baits or use crane cable or something? 100lb flouro is just fine, bad things can happen with anything and you are not killing any muskies using 100lb leaders anymore than a fish swallowing a bait full of 5/0 or larger treble hooks! |
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Posts: 458
| I have never met a musky guide that uses anything under 130 lb. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | edalz - 10/16/2012 10:08 PM
I have never met a musky guide that uses anything under 130 lb.
Ditto,.....Anything Less would be like drinking a "LITE" Beer. |
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Posts: 727
| Top H2O - 10/16/2012 11:51 PM
edalz - 10/16/2012 10:08 PM
I have never met a musky guide that uses anything under 130 lb.
Ditto,.....Anything Less would be like drinking a "LITE" Beer.
This might be the best post ever.... |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Do you consider Steve Herbeck or any of his employees a guide? The last time I was there they used 60# flouro consistently. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Anything under 130 and your gonna have problems. Stick with Stealth Tackle's 150-180 lb and your be problem free. Don't run 100, 80, 60, etc...just like if you use 65 lb test line, 50 lb test line, etc....sure you CAN catch fish on it...but at some point your gonna break it...150-180 lb Stealth Tackle and 80-100 pound Cortland line. No reason to go light. |
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Posts: 142
| I use 80 and haven't had any issues. I don't throw huge baits though. The biggest I throw is 8oz. |
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Posts: 791
Location: North Central IL USA | MikeHulbert - 10/17/2012 5:54 AM
150-180 lb Stealth Tackle and 80-100 pound Cortland line. No reason to go light.
You using this kinda tackle for small baits as well....say a Blue Fox Muskie Buck?? |
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| what's even dumber than using floro leaders, a material that can be shredded by teeth?
paying $8 for a one and thinking you're somehow invisible to the fish.
everyone says "never had a problem with it" until they do. |
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Posts: 2015
| Guest - 10/17/2012 9:54 AM
what's even dumber than using floro leaders, a material that can be shredded by teeth?
paying $8 for a one and thinking you're somehow invisible to the fish.
everyone says "never had a problem with it" until they do.
Brilliant! 100 pound test braid will never fail until it does, a top name 5/0 hook will never straighten until it does, Shimano makes the best reels until one breaks while your fighting a fish....use what you want but I've used Fluorocarbon 100% of the time for 8 years and I always will...and all of the things I've mention earlier in this post have failed my leaders ...well not yet oh and I use a crimp only - oh no!  |
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Posts: 458
| Vince Weirick - 10/17/2012 3:48 AM
Do you consider Steve Herbeck or any of his employees a guide? The last time I was there they used 60# flouro consistently.
I have been to Herbies place three times and most of the guides make their own. My favorite guide uses 130lb (Cal) and since Eagle is a trophy lake why would you undersize a leader? What is the upside? They mostly throw double tens and dawg and you want me to believe with they all use 60lb? I don't believe it. |
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Posts: 458
| gregk9 - 10/17/2012 9:02 AM
MikeHulbert - 10/17/2012 5:54 AM
150-180 lb Stealth Tackle and 80-100 pound Cortland line. No reason to go light.
You using this kinda tackle for small baits as well....say a Blue Fox Muskie Buck??
I do not throw alot of smaller stuff so I am just rigged up for the bigger baits and I can not answer this question properly and maybe someone else has some input. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Yes, I throw every bait I own on 150 lb Stealth leaders. Bucktails, topwaters, rubber, twitch baits, gliders, etc...the pound test isn't for the bait...it's for the fish. Just because your throwing a small bucktail doesn't mean you have to use a small pound test leader....150-180 is the only way to go. |
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| MikeHulbert - 10/17/2012 8:13 PM
Yes, I throw every bait I own on 150 lb Stealth leaders. Bucktails, topwaters, rubber, twitch baits, gliders, etc...the pound test isn't for the bait...it's for the fish. Just because your throwing a small bucktail doesn't mean you have to use a small pound test leader....150-180 is the only way to go.
Plenty of responsible uses of lower lb fluorocarbon for muskie, claiming your way is the only way, is nonsense. MU |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | edalz - 10/17/2012 12:08 PM
Vince Weirick - 10/17/2012 3:48 AM
Do you consider Steve Herbeck or any of his employees a guide? The last time I was there they used 60# flouro consistently.
I have been to Herbies place three times and most of the guides make their own. My favorite guide uses 130lb (Cal ) and since Eagle is a trophy lake why would you undersize a leader? What is the upside? They mostly throw double tens and dawg and you want me to believe with they all use 60lb? I don't believe it.
Ed,
I fished with Herbie and he had a large spool of 60# flouro which he said his guys used also. We were not throwing dawgs that day but were throwing 9" deep diving grandmas and double 10's along with a few other crankbaits thrown in the mix. I was using my regular 130# Stealth leader.
I do use 60# from time to time depending on what I am throwing and what I am trying to accomplish. I have never had a problem with this set up of mine and had countless numbers of fish. A lot of it depends on the amount of pressure you are going to put on the fish. I am using a much lighter set up when I use the 60# flouro and am not trying to horse the fish in to the boat in 5 seconds. The heavier leader you use the less action you get out of your bait.
Small baits = small fish??? Just ask the guys in Michigan about their recent catch on 8# test line. I doubt they were using a pounder. I know they were targeting smallmouth but sometimes thinking outside the box is the key.
I use the 60# flouro at certain times of the year. I am not saying that it is for everyone but this is what I have and continue to use and it works for me.
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | "MuskieEducator", I never said my way is the only way. It is simply my opinion. People can agree or disagree...but not once did I say, my way is the only way. Folks on here ask for people's advice and opinion...I gave mine, you might think it's right or wrong...that's your right and your opinion MU. Just simply going off the total muskies caught in my boat with 150 lb Stealth Leaders and problems that I've had which is zero....I know of plenty of issues with 80 and 100 lb flouro. I know of problems with other brands of flouro leaders that might just be crimped...but a with Stealth 150 lb leaders I have had ZERO failure...and I like having zero failure.
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Posts: 865
| I have only been making my own Fluorocarbon leaders now for the past 4 years now, And I have never been broken off yet. I used 80 for 4 years trouble free, this fall I just made a bunch of new ones using 100lb. Only because the 100lb. was on sale. And here is another No, No, according to a lot of guys. I also crimp all my leaders the old fashion way with small Aluminum crimps. Never had one fail, and I do a lot of trolling.........No one mentioned this but I think, the state you are fishing in is a very important factor..... If your fishing trophy waters were 52 to 56 inch fish are caught on a regular basis then maybe it would be a wise idea to go heavier. But if your local waters is where the State Record was caught 8 years ago and was a 47 to 48 inch fish then I think the 80lb. or 100lb. will be just fine..... Mike Sr |
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Posts: 458
| Vince Weirick - 10/17/2012 10:36 PM
edalz - 10/17/2012 12:08 PM
Vince Weirick - 10/17/2012 3:48 AM
Do you consider Steve Herbeck or any of his employees a guide? The last time I was there they used 60# flouro consistently.
I have been to Herbies place three times and most of the guides make their own. My favorite guide uses 130lb (Cal ) and since Eagle is a trophy lake why would you undersize a leader? What is the upside? They mostly throw double tens and dawg and you want me to believe with they all use 60lb? I don't believe it.
Ed,
I fished with Herbie and he had a large spool of 60# flouro which he said his guys used
also. We were not throwing dawgs that day but were throwing 9" deep diving grandmas and double 10's along with a few other crankbaits thrown in the mix. I was using my regular 130# Stealth leader.
I do use 60# from time to time depending on what I am throwing and what I am trying to accomplish. I have never had a problem with this set up of mine and had countless
numbers of fish. A lot of it depends on the amount of pressure you are going to put on the fish. I am using a much lighter set up when I use the 60# flouro and am not trying
to horse the fish in to the boat in 5 seconds. The heavier leader you use the less action you get out of your bait.
Small baits = small fish??? Just ask the guys in Michigan about their recent catch on 8# test line. I doubt they were using a pounder. I know they were targeting smallmouth but sometimes thinking outside the box is the key.
I use the 60# flouro at certain times of the year. I am not saying that it is for everyone but this is what I have and continue to use and it works for me.
I just could not imagine using a 60 lb leader on a trophy lake like Eagle. I have seen pictures of 100lb leaders that have failed and I would not want to kill a fish because of a light leader. If my bait loses some action then the trade off is OK with me.
The guys in MI were not targeting muskies and simply got lucky so I do not know how that factors into the conversation and they were using 8 lb line. They got lucky as to where the fish got hooked and it took them around two hours to land the fish.
I do not want to risk killing a fish so I use 150lb or higher Stealth leaders. I am not saying that my way is the only way just that this is what I choose to do. |
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| So It seems most of you are using flouro, does 7 strand take away action at all? What other disadvantages are there? I see I've started a bit of controversy with the light leaders but its just seemed to me that regardless of the pound test if a big enough musky hit a flourocarbon leader the right way they could shred it. Not saying its likly but It just made me wonder what really is the advantage of flouro. |
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Posts: 142
| MikeHulbert - 10/17/2012 11:00 PM
"MuskieEducator", I never said my way is the only way. It is simply my opinion. People can agree or disagree...but not once did I say, my way is the only way. Folks on here ask for people's advice and opinion...I gave mine, you might think it's right or wrong...that's your right and your opinion MU. Just simply going off the total muskies caught in my boat with 150 lb Stealth Leaders and problems that I've had which is zero....I know of plenty of issues with 80 and 100 lb flouro. I know of problems with other brands of flouro leaders that might just be crimped...but a with Stealth 150 lb leaders I have had ZERO failure...and I like having zero failure.
I don't have many trophy fish in the waters I fish. I have and will continue to abuse my 80lb leaders. If I can't catch a 40lb fish due to an 80lb leader not being up to the task than maybe I'll switch to the shark gear youre throwing. It's a muskie, not a mako.
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Posts: 2015
| Guest - 10/18/2012 8:30 AM
fluoro leaders are just that fluoro be it 200# or 50# it is still fluoro made out of the same material. if a musky can nick or cut 50# fluoro it can do it to 200#. the pound test rating is breaking strength NOT tooth cutting strength and it's funny to me all you so called pros don't understand this. the abrasion resistance of 50# is the same as 200#.
Abrasion resistance of the material would be the same if you use 2lb test????? But the functionality of thicker material at 2Lb test dia vs 200lb is HUGE! What a dumb post. Muskies dont bite through 150LB + flouro .....they dont have teeth like a wahoo......use your steel leader and be happy we dont care! |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | IAJustin - 10/18/2012 8:52 AM
Guest - 10/18/2012 8:30 AM
fluoro leaders are just that fluoro be it 200# or 50# it is still fluoro made out of the same material. if a musky can nick or cut 50# fluoro it can do it to 200#. the pound test rating is breaking strength NOT tooth cutting strength and it's funny to me all you so called pros don't understand this. the abrasion resistance of 50# is the same as 200#.
Abrasion resistance of the material would be the same if you use 2lb test????? But the functionality of thicker material at 2Lb test dia vs 200lb is HUGE! What a dumb post. Muskies dont bite through 150LB + flouro .....they dont have teeth like a wahoo......use your steel leader and be happy we dont care!
I will add a little tid bit into this dog fight. I would consider Floro having a much better shock resistance over 7 strand. While I don't use them a ton I have never broken floro while jerking baits. I have broken a lot of 7 strand in years past prior to going to solid wire.
Advantages with Floro - They don't kink. It also does not stick out like a sore thumb in the water. Better shock obsorbtion (in my opinion and experience). I can tie direct to my mainline without a solid ring or swivel. |
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| IAJustin - 10/18/2012 8:52 AM
Guest - 10/18/2012 8:30 AM
fluoro leaders are just that fluoro be it 200# or 50# it is still fluoro made out of the same material. if a musky can nick or cut 50# fluoro it can do it to 200#. the pound test rating is breaking strength NOT tooth cutting strength and it's funny to me all you so called pros don't understand this. the abrasion resistance of 50# is the same as 200#.
Abrasion resistance of the material would be the same if you use 2lb test????? But the functionality of thicker material at 2Lb test dia vs 200lb is HUGE! What a dumb post. Muskies dont bite through 150LB + flouro .....they dont have teeth like a wahoo......use your steel leader and be happy we dont care!
Seriously? I've been bitten through on 150 and 200lb floro. Take a knife to your 150lb floro leader and tell me how easy it is to cut it...now imagine a muskies tooth, also quite sharp, hitting your floro leader during a fight? Hmmmmm...
Why use floro when they make 49 strand, stainless steel that is just as flexible as floro...or just tooth proof single strand.
Muskies don't care about leaders...they will see the 3 7/0 hooks before they see the wire leader. |
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Posts: 8781
| Maybe the guys out there using flouro with no failures (i.e. Herbie and his guides) just know how to fight a fish better? |
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| esoxaddict - 10/18/2012 12:41 PM
Maybe the guys out there using flouro with no failures (i.e. Herbie and his guides) just know how to fight a fish better?
BINGO!!!! |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Probably.
I use heavy flouro and .050 wire for most baits. I haven't had a 150# flouro leader fail yet. I have never had a .050 wire leader fail, and probably never will.
The fish don't care either way. |
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Location: Grinnell, Iowa | If you had a musky bite right clean through 130lb+ flouro, your leader already had a defect in it before the musky hit it. |
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| why use 60 pound floro? why not just use the braid your using and tie a snap on. if your using lures that small why wouldnt you just use a wire leader or none at all.
is there a point in using a leader if going to break before your main line?
its not the teeth that cuts ur line most the time anyways its behind their gills and most the time leaders arent long enough if a fish rolls up anyways
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| The fish don't care.....I only use the leader to save damage to the fish when she does a gator roll and has 28 inch girth....the other thing i use the leader for is depth control....when i troll the v I bring along 100, 150, 200, and 300 big game... was using 42 inch 300 lb leaders on my 17 inch custom x lures....just another dimension to depth and lure action...good luck...
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| Love to listen to you young guys argue. Been doing this 45 yrs. Been there , done that. the main issue is to get the ski to the boat as quickly as possible , unhooked and released unharmed. Why would you use anything less than the heaviest leader/line you can possibly get away with. I do go light sometimes when using small lipped lures, 80lb Cortland and light leaders ,120lb Climax (I make my own). Anything less, well I guess , although I hope not, you'll find out on your own. Been in it to long to argue. I will say 7 strand I won't use anymore. I had 1 failure (1 is too many). The leader broke in the middle for no apparent reason. Flaw of some kind I assume. Fish hard and be safe. CPR |
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Posts: 32
| Cheap insurance imo. I run overkill on everything(80-100lb braid-150-200lb floro leader). Just dont want the "big one" to get away. Its not that smaller stuff wont work. I know a guy that uses 50-65lb braided line with no leader. Just checks his line after every catch. He has landed multiple 50+ fish doing this but has lost some. He is old school and you couldnt convince him any otherway |
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| Well I've started throwing flour more and I've run into a huge problem with the leader getting tangled in my spinnerbaits. Its been happening to all of them and on about every other cast. Any idea on how to fix this problem?? I've tried bending the arms on the spinnerbaits. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Maybe heat shrink the rear hook,........ Or,...... Thumb the spool while casting and guide the lure properly into the water.
I very seldom get bucktails or spinner baits hung up on fluoro,...... Double Dawg Pounders are sometimes a challenge... Fluoro for me.
Jerome |
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Posts: 22
| Hey Doug , you're not alone with this problem.Sometime when you manually thumb the spool near the end of the cast not just enough to prevent a backlash but cause the lure to straighten out before it hits the water. It may help. That would be a more politicaly correct answer than what I am about to suggest. When it comes to safety-pin type spinnerbaitsl, tie them direct to your main line. 45 yrs .experience,never a bite-off. Same with all my partners.DO THIS ONLY WITH THIS TYPE LURE ,ALL OTHERS, USE AS HEAVY A QUALITY LEADER YOU THINK YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THEN GO 10 LBS HEAVIER ! |
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Flourocarbon leaders