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Posts: 388
| I've often thought about converting my SC to a tiller drive on my 2004 1750 Fishhawk SC. It is rigged with a 90HP Suzuki 4 stroke. The coast guard rating for SC is 125HP. I checked the manual for 2004 model and they rated the tiller model at 80HP at that time. I suspect that my would be project would require a hydraulic control on the tiller to stay legal.
Any idea on the cost to convert the motor to a tiller handle and rig the gauges and console functions to a tiller set-up? Any recommendations on a dealer that is good at this? Any Fishhawk owners that have experience with this that could weigh in on a starboard rod locker option?
Thanks,
Pete | |
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Posts: 128
| Cost for the tiller conversion is usually pretty high. You will see new tiller "kits" pop up on e-bay now and again, but even on ebay they are usually $600 and up.
You would then have to source a port rear console from the tiller version of your boat, or some other similar boat. Or make one of your own, transferring your gauges/ignition/switches etc over.
A hydraulic conversion on the engine would NOT allow you to run the 90hp motor if it is supposed to be 80hp max. The only tiller system that is considered "remote control" is the Warrior steering system. The Titan/Merten/Big Tiller systems are not considered "remote control" by the USCG.
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Warrior system is not USCG approved as remote steering. No tiller steering system is at this juncture. | |
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Posts: 388
| When looking at the Lund Pro-Guides I saw that the HP rating allows 200HP motor with hydraulic steering so that is what gave me the thought I could get away with it on my boat.
If indeed I need to get rid of my 90 Suzuki, then it is kind of out of the question for me to do this. | |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Pro Guide that is rated for V6 power is 20', which allows for any hp the boat builder wishes. Anything under 20' is regulated by the USCG tiller formula. | |
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Posts: 111
Location: somewhere! | It's your boat! Buy a red 8 take the 9 off now it's an 80 hp
Edited by charlesb 9/12/2012 5:08 AM
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Posts: 128
| The V1890 Backtroller w/remote steering is rated for a 140hp motor.
Following the USCG rating system the boat should only be rated for a 80HP motor.
I've always heard that the Warrior system was considered a remote steering setup, and this rating leads me to believe that is right. However, there is no mention of a 25" transom in the USCG formula so maybe having a 25" transom changes things.
Same story with their 17' tiller boat. Rated for a 70HP according to the USCG, but Warrior has it rated at 90HP. The HP that most 18' tiller boats is rated at.
Comparing the Lund or other tiller boats @18' the Warrior is rated for 50 more HP.
Edited by smallmouth/musky 9/12/2012 6:36 PM
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Warrior has been for a long time, doesn't mean the USCG has approved it. The Mertens System that Mercury bought is a full hydraulic far superior to the Warrior system; the Warrior is an assist, and Mercury offers the full hydraulic and could easily put it on a Merc small block V6 on the 18' Lund; there's your sign. Look it up in the USCG regs, there's no provision for hydraulic steering for a tiller to be rated as remote steering. Most big tillers have a 25" transom. the key is static float plane transom measurement, not height.
Warrior was plumb clean bankrupt out of business, if the steering system allowed for selling a bigger tiller, it'd be on every brand out there.
That's why you can't buy an 18' Ranger, Tuffy, or Skeeter with a 140 HP motor.
Draw whatever conclusion you want except that hydraulic steering on a tiller is considered remote steering by the USCG.
I'm hoping that changes, and soon, the Mertens system is bulletproof. It should change, but there's more to the formula than you might know including the 180degree turn test, seating in the boat, and more. A tiller can be turned MUCH more quickly than a wheel, and that's part of the issue.
My guess is none of the companies that are compliant want to be the test case baby. | |
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Posts: 128
| The warrior system isn't just an assist. It is not only a true power steering, but can be steered remotely away from the engine.
Here is a video http://www.danieldesigngroup.com/warrior2008/video/video_ads_07/pro... | |
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| Just so everyone knows that a Coast Guard inspector was at the Warrior Plant on 8-14-2012 to inspect the 1890 BT with a 140 Hp on it. The boat met all Coast Guards Standards. | |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | So let me get this straight, the hydraulic system on Mercury's engines and the Warrior steering system should now meet USCG ratings for a console boat, and as a result a tiller boat can now be rated with a larger engine than the ratings allow under the current USCG horsepower ratings protocol.
Where is this published?
I'll get in touch with our USCG rep who inspects the boats at Tuffy and ask the question.
Here's Crestliner and Lund's take on it:
http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2011/02/outboard-horsepower-...
Nothing changed in the federal regs on HP.
http://law.justia.com/cfr/title33/33-2.0.1.8.44.html#33:2.0.1.8.44....
Still the same in definition of remote steering and the regs in the USCG Boat Builders Handbook, no changes, a 'steering wheel' is the definitive item defining remote steering.
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/downloads/PART1.pdf
I've spoken to Mr. Chang several times in the past, I'll see if I can get a confirmation.
UPDATE:
I just got off the phone with Mr. Chang, and he confirmed that NO power steering tiller system is accepted as remote steering. No exceptions confirmed by two boat builders as well this morning, and the reasoning remains as stated in the Crestliner test article above:
'“We have had many discussions with the Coast Guard on that subject,” says Chad Keskitalo, compliance specialist for Lund and Crestliner boats, “and the Coast Guard won’t budge.”
Po Chang, a civilian boating safety engineer for the Coast Guard, explains that the agency has three concerns when considering max power for tiller- versus remote-steered boats. The first is operator placement.
“With the operator sitting further aft at the tiller, the boat is not in ideal trim,” says Chang. “He also can’t see forward as well, and the boat may be more prone to porpoise.”
The second concern, says Chang, is operator security.
“A steering wheel provides a brace for both hands, and the seat offers additional stability, that the operator of the tiller boat does not have,” explains Chang. “The tiller operator is just hanging on the gunwale with his right hand.”
Finally, there’s the difference in reaction to helm input between the two systems.
“With a steering wheel, it takes a pretty deliberate motion to change course,” says Chang. “The tiller is connected directly to the motor, and it’s much easier to make an inadvertent course change.”
Adding power assist to the tiller does not really address any of these issues."
Mr. Chang told me this morning that the power steering does reduce fatigue, but doesn't address the issues above and will not be considered remote steering in any case for HP rating.
No Tuffy 1890 with a buck and a half tiller for me, I guess.
Darn it.
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Crestliner SC to Tiller Conversion Experience