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Posts: 416
Location: Madtown, WI | My motor has been nickel and diming me like crazy so I'm looking to upgrade to max out my boat with a new or almost new motor. Boat is 16' alumimum remote console with mercury controls, super light, rated to 60hp. I troll maybe 40% of the time. Looking for some advice as I've never bought a new motor before.
I was just going to go for a new 4 stroke merc but the local evinrude/mercury dealer told me the etecs are better for trolling and the 4 stroke mercs are no "ball of fire". He had 3 etecs in stock (including a new 2010) but would have to order the merc, I wonder if that was why he was trying to talk me out of the merc. I personally don't care what my hole shot is, I just want an efficient motor that trolls down nicely. Are etecs better than 4 stroke mercs for trolling? My father in law got an etec a couple years ago and has had issue with the fuel injectors so I'm hesitant to go etec.
I also found a used 2012 60hp bigfoot merc that just came off a pontoon. The salesman told me I could get a really good price and they put them on fishing boats all the time. Is this such a good idea?
I never trust salesmen (no offense to anybody), seems like they usually just want to sell what they got even though it's not what the customer wants. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if you are not going to be using a kicker, but one motor only and plan to troll 40% of the time ... i think you are leaving out 2 obvious choices you should consider 1. Yamaha and 2. Suzuki ...
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Posts: 416
Location: Madtown, WI | Yah, I know. I should probably just get a new Ranger with a 250hp honda and a 4 stroke kicker but..... I'm trying to work within a budget. Trying to convince the wife I need a new motor is no easy task, I think I'm a grand over what I quoted her as it is. I'll give the local Suzuki guy a call tomorrow though, thanks sled. |
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Posts: 925
| Not sure on the cost differential, but I know my buddy's ETC (albeit a 250 horse) eats oil like crazy. Putting a gallon jug of ETEC oil to the tune of $40 every time he fills his tank, adds up.
He fishes ALOT and uses the boat more than the average anlger, but I wouldn't be surprised if he puts $800 in oil in that thing this summer alone.
I have a Yamaha 4 stroke so oil is not an issue, but I know it would bother me paying that much for oil every time I filled the gas tank.
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| Here's a test for each with similar boats
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/engine-tests/boat-house-bullet...
http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/neutral/performanceReports/PE83... |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | stdevos - 8/1/2012 1:16 PM
Yah, I know. I should probably just get a new Ranger with a 250hp honda and a 4 stroke kicker but..... I'm trying to work within a budget. Trying to convince the wife I need a new motor is no easy task, I think I'm a grand over what I quoted her as it is. I'll give the local Suzuki guy a call tomorrow though, thanks sled.
just thinking the trolling piece ya know? i run a 2-stroke kicker and now that i'm trolling it's simply gotta go. noise and smell from a long night can be annoying. 40% is a big number and just seems you would want to go 4-stroke especially with that size. merc being later to the game doesn't kick em out, but for sure take the wife out to "listen" (if that's what you want to call it) to a suzuki once. only way you'll know it's running is from the sound of the pee stream landing in the water!! |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | If you've got Merc controls that will fit the new motor wouldn't it seem a no brainer to buy another Merc to save $$$ rigging? Bigfoot? Is the gear ratio odd on that one compared to a regular motor? Might have a bad time getting it propped right if it is.
E-TECs drinking oil? Not on my rig. If you mount the motor right, prop it right and stay away from full throttle short hops the amount of oil it'll use is minimal. If you are going balls to the wall for a 1/4 mile and stopping to fish over and over again all day, then I believe it'll suck oil, but it'll suck gas too and not any more than other motors. E-TECs troll great for muskies at 3+ from what I've seen in the last 5 seasons when I'm not running my kicker. |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 60 HP 4 stroke Mercury. Nice motor, trolls down to nothing, and is very reliable. I wouldn't put a bigfoot on the rig. |
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Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | I agree with staying away from the bigfoots. When i was doing some research on which motor to get on my rig, I compared the E-tec to the Opti-max. The numbers (oil usage, gas milage, hole shot, torque, etc...) on the Opti were better than the E-tec, so, I went with the opti. Love it, plus it was $4000.00 cheaper. I am not a trolling guy, however if i were, I would lean towards the Yamaha. Also agree with the rigging comment made earlier, that would save some dough. I hear the guys down in Florida are in love with their Tahiatsu (sp) outboards and have been using them for years. |
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Posts: 416
Location: Madtown, WI | Almost-B-Good - 8/1/2012 2:06 PM
If you've got Merc controls that will fit the new motor wouldn't it seem a no brainer to buy another Merc to save $$$ rigging?
Well that's what I thought, no brainer right? But not 100% on the controls, I've heard both ways from the salesmen, I'll have to bring my rig in to know for sure. The other problem with just getting a merc is nobody has them in stock, plenty of new 2010 or 2011 etecs around which I figure I could get a much better bargain on and not have to wait 3 weeks.
I'm still leaning toward 4 stroke though, I love the low maintenance and not having to add oil every time. The 25 mpg at trolling speeds is attractive, but how much are you saving when you have add a gallon of oil to every tank a gas? And I know of 3 guys who blew their 2 stroke, all due to a different oil injection problems.
Edited by stdevos 8/1/2012 2:31 PM
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Posts: 5874
| I think a key statement is the 3 Etecs, including a 2010, he has in stock. Make him a low ball offer on the 2010, and see if he bites. Offer half of MSRP!
Merc Bigfoot and the Suzuki are pretty comparable. Similar spec's, including gear ratio. That's the big difference between the Merc 60 EFI Bigfoot and the Merc 60 EFI. 2.33:1 vs 1.83:1 grear ratio. Biggest diffence between the Suzuki and the Merc is DOHC for the Suzuki vs SOHC for the Merc. Both are quiet, probably similar in fuel efficiency.
I would bet it comes down to which tiller handle you like best. Some like the Merc handle, some don't. Note: Sorry, I didn't see the console bit. Good point on the existing controls.
Oh, and price, of course. Don't overlook the service network, either.
There is now way your going to use a gallon of oil per tank on a 60, Not even an etec uses that much oil. Maybe an etec 200 with a 50 gallon tank? I used about a gallon every tank and a half on my 200 Opti, or about 60-75 gallons. And nobody ever accused me of driving easy for best economy!
Edited by Shep 8/1/2012 2:36 PM
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Posts: 144
| This is my first year running an etec motor. I have the 60hp. tiller. It has been really great so far. I troll 75% and I don't use a kicker. I replaced a 50hp 4 stroke Merc that was really under powered for my boat. The Merc was a very nice motor regardless. I don't think you can go wrong with either motor. If you have a heavy boat that is under-powered, even with the max hp like mine, i would suggest going with the etec. The extra torque and the ability to run a larger prop have made a big difference with the overall performance of my boat.
Edited by pete619 8/1/2012 10:28 PM
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Posts: 42
| I would not exclude a yamaha |
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Posts: 416
Location: Madtown, WI | Is there a reason nobody has recommended a honda yet? Stopped by to check out the suzuki's (sold last one yesterday) and he had a 2005 50hp Honda that he'd be willing to pull off another boat for me or a 2012 50hp priced the same as a 60hp Merc install.
Thanks for the help everybody, really appreciate it.
Edited by stdevos 8/2/2012 9:40 AM
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Posts: 5874
| 50HP Honda for the same price as a 60HP Merc? 10 Hp less is not a deal. |
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Posts: 833
| I run a 115 ETEC HO. Trolls very well at Musky speeds. Oil/Gas use really depends on what you do. I use 4 gallons of XD100 a year, but I fish on a 14K acre body of water and tend to do lots of run and gun. If I fished a much smaller lake, my gas/oil use would be far less. That stuff is very relative IMO. |
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Posts: 416
Location: Madtown, WI | Turns out the same guy with the 2010 60hp etec had a brand new 2009 50hp 4 stroke merc that he didn't tell me about initially. As you'd expect, getting a very nice discount that I can't pass up even though it's a drop in hp. Still an upgrade from current 40hp 2 stroke.
Thanks again for all the advice, really helped in the decision making and I learned a ton in the whole process. |
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Posts: 633
Location: Madison, WI | i just got a new boat with a merc 4-stroke. my previous boat had an e-tec. The merc is a super quiet nice running motor, HOWEVER the mpg is not much better and the hole shot is terrible! My e-tec had way more balls and so far the positives for the 4-stroke merc have not made me like it better. I wish i had my e-tec back. |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Your hole shot is entirely dependent on your prop. The motor can only run the RPM the prop allows it to, and over propping will cause poor mileage and slow hole shots, and poor boat handling. Get the right prop on that motor. |
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Posts: 633
Location: Madison, WI | i am on the 2nd prop for my merc, the first was a 4 blade and i just switched to a 15 pitch 3 blade and gained a few mphs but still not overly impressed. IMO i just liked the snap of the 2 stroke e-tec over what seems to be a laggy 4-stroke. Im not knocking mercury as it is a great motor, just liked the e-tec better. |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If you picked up speed, you will lose hole shot. What HP Merc and what prop on what boat? |
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Posts: 437
| When I was in the process of buying a new boat I looked hard at motor choices. I considered Yamaha, Etec and Suzuki with Suzuki and Etec being my top two choices going in. All the marketing fluff with the etecs about no maintenance, etc had me strongly considering them. But then I dug deeper. The oil is expensive. 4 gallons of oil is going to run you $100 on a good day. I ended up getting a Suzuki and honestly could not be happier. I have buddies that have Yamahas and Hondas and while they are good motors they are not even close to as smooth or quiet as my suzuki. I change my oil once a year and that costs me around $60 complete, so thats less money than if I bought an etec and had to purchase 2 stroke oil.
Suzuki is the ONLY complete 4 stroke line that meets the ultra low emissions rating. Others have some models that do, but not the complete lineup.
When its idling you cannot even hear it. You hear the water splashing on the sides of the boat or the stream coming out of the motor, thats it. I cannot say enough good things about this motor. |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Suzuki builds a very nice motor. |
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Posts: 1536
Location: God's Country......USA..... Western Wisconsin | Controls will be a large issue. I doubt that the mercury controls you have now will work with the new e tec. If you need a tachometer for rpms that will not match up either so you would need a new tach. That 4 stroke merc is a great choice we sell a quite a few 0f them here at Frankie's and our customers seem to be very happy. |
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Posts: 582
| Suzuki.. great motor and usually more reasonably priced. Just make sure you have dealer support. I couldn't be happier with mine. It's been awesome (4S) |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Suzuki is definitely not less money. Great motors, but need more dealers and PR. One of the most 'undersold' products in the business. |
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Posts: 437
| sworrall - 8/9/2012 9:33 AM
Suzuki Great motors, but need more dealers and PR. One of the most 'undersold' products in the business. times 1000!
There were far more "johnson" 4 strokes sold than suzukis. Which the johnsons were made by suzuki. |
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| Captain - 8/9/2012 3:29 PM
sworrall - 8/9/2012 9:33 AM
Suzuki Great motors, but need more dealers and PR. One of the most 'undersold' products in the business. times 1000!
There were far more "johnson" 4 strokes sold than suzukis. Which the johnsons were made by suzuki.
Couldn't agree any more! When I looked for my boat Suzuki was my #1 choice, but I opted for Yamaha b/c there's more dealers and I could get a better price for the rig with a Yamaha.
We run a Johnzuki (or Suzunson?) on our work boat - 2004 that should be rolling over 1800 hrs this year. The only problem we've had was this year when the gear-switch broke, it's a small plastic switch by the gear/throttle controls in the engine. The motor is bomb proof with routine maintenance and we aren't exactly nice on it all the time.
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Posts: 373
Location: Maine Township, MN | glog - 8/1/2012 10:30 PM
I would not exclude a yamaha
Ditto! Soooooo....... Quiet. |
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etec or merc?