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Posts: 2
| Before any one jumps down my throat, I looked for a thread that would answer my question & couldn't find one.
I see people are saying to leave Muskies alone while the water temps are high.
Why?
Im just asking before someone gets mad im just asking cuz I don't know.
What is to warm? I mean is 8o degrees to hot 90 what?
Is it not the water temp at all and just the outside temps?
I was out on a local river up here in Northern Wisconsin Sunday & the water temps were 81 and a shallow back bay they were 88. I noticed I wasn't seen the fish there I had seen a week earlyer. That includes pan fish & little bait fish. I figured that was due to the warm water.
Thanks for any info. |
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Posts: 661
Location: Sussex, NJ | Usually once the water temp is around the 80 degree mark you tend to hang the gear up until it cools off. However a lot of the readings are of the surface which is warmer than say 10ft below the surface. It can be harmful to the fish because the warm is so warm and the fish become exhausted. The water also has low oxygen levels which does not help fish that are muskie size. The muskies survival chance decreases greatly in water over 80 degrees |
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Posts: 8834
| As water warms up it loses the ability to hold Oxygen. 80 degrees is the widely accepted temperature after which it becomes difficult to catch and successfully release muskies. But there are many variables. 80 degree surface temps in a back bay during the hottest part of the day is different than consistent 80 degree surface temps throughout the whole lake. Shallow lakes where there is no water beneath the surface that is significantly cooler are different than deep lakes where you may see 80 on the surface, and find much much cooler water 5 - 10 feet down.
Should you fish? That's your call. It really depends on what's going on beneath the surface and throughout the rest of the lake. I know that on "my lake" the shorelines can be warm, and you can get a surface reading of 80 degrees during unusually hot weather, especially over shallow sandy areas, but when you swim out 20 feet from shore and get over deeper water it's a WHOLE different story - that water can still be #*^@ cold! I've never had the opportunity to check, but with depths up to 57 feet on a 500 acre lake, I'd suspect that a vast majority of the lake never warms up all that much, even during the hottest weather. |
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Posts: 133
Location: South Bend, Indiana | If you want to know the technical stuff, it's because at higher temperatures, gases are less soluble to a liquid solvent... oxygen being the solute, and the water being the solvent. As the water temps decrease, the solubility increases for a gas increases... That's why in late fall, the fat girls have no problem shooting away after an awesome fight |
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| It has nothing to do with dissolved oxygen and all about temperature. DO levels are at an annual high right now.
Weeds (photosynthesis) + Waves = more DO
DO levels are significantly lower in the fall and winter when the weeds are dying/decomposing as the process actually consumes oxygen. |
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| it was noted in southern waters when folks released muskies and later found those same muskies belly up. they also noted that the water temps were near 80 as well. putting two and two together they figured out that releasing muskies during high water temps kills them . |
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Posts: 133
Location: South Bend, Indiana | The weeds can effect it, but the majority has to do with "dissolved" oxygen. (Which isn't even technically "dissolved") Chemistry my friend... chemistry... |
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| Point remains, DO is higher now than it will be in october. Check out historical lake mendota buoy data |
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| You'll have to explain further for us non-chemists because photosynthesis does create "dissolved oxygen" according to the internet.
http://www.waterontheweb.org/under/waterquality/oxygen.html |
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Posts: 334
Location: Madison, WI | Heres a good discussion......
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21...
In my opinion, do what you want, if you choose to fish just becareful and follow the basic guidlines.
1. Fight fast
2. Water release (save pic taking for fish bigger than 45" and no more than 10 seconds out of the water)
3. Have proper release tools
I even read somewhere to hold fish alittle deeper down if possible because its generally cooler.
Edited by EsoxAddiction 7/3/2012 5:01 PM
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Rob Kimm did a good piece on the subject either on this forum or another sometime in the last couple years, explaining oxygen, lactic acid buildup in the fish, temps, the whole works. There is sound scientific eveidence supporting 80 F being the point at which release becomes quite a bit less certain. He quits fishing then, I and many people I know do as well. |
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| All fish including bass have a hard time going back after a good fight in warm water ,its all on expierience.everyone should just quit fishin !sounds like a govnt scam .and dont plan on fishin in minn ,cuz water is too hot there also.sounds like guys just want to hog all the fish for themelves,and btw still waiting on a scientific study on post death of these fish.and how warm water hurts fishing when u see muskies up in shallow water by piers sunny or even eating during the day,on 86 degree water temps.fish dye going from extreme cold to hot water and vise versa!so catch em deep yes this is what will happen .make your own decission dont let others threaten u for enjoying a day on the lake tryin to get lucky!
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Rather callous and uncaring to not have any concern whatsoever regarding water temps, and then recommending to all to just go fish, but to each his own. By the way, there is a big difference between a healthy fish choosing to go lay up in warm water, and being in control of how long he is there and how he moves, vs being caught and possibly severely tired out (lactic acid buildup) and then released into oxgen-depleted, high temp water where the fish doesn't have that control. I think most on here are not dictating do this/do that as an absolute, but rather asking that everyone at least consider the dangers and be as thoughtful and protective as possible when it comes to handling, photos out of the water, etc, and just caring for the resource. |
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Posts: 456
Location: Kansas City BBQ Capitol of the world | I have a question on this. I'm no fish Biologist and don't catch half as many Muskies as most of you guys, so here goes.
I know some Muskie boats have 60 inch live wells in them. Would an extra step of reviving the fish in the live well with the aerator on help with the supply of oxygen for the fish in these situations?
Thanks,
Ron
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Probably not, because the water would be pulled from the surface and be very warm. The main issue is increased stress on muskies from the battle in water temps that are too warm and increased post release mortality is the result. That's not something the biologists and field folks from the DNR up here question at all...Keith plain won't fish muskies once the temps hit upper 70's to low 80's. |
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Posts: 415
| guest - 7/5/2012 10:21 AM
sounds like guys just want to hog all the fish for themelves
Actually, I'd argue it sounds like you are trying to hog them for yourself. If the knowledgeable musky anglers quit fishing for them under extreme temps, then how is that hogging them for themselves?
I know this guy is probably just messing with everybody, because not too many musky fisherman are that dumb. |
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Posts: 576
Location: WI | guest - 7/5/2012 10:21 AM
All fish including bass have a hard time going back after a good fight in warm water ,its all on expierience.everyone should just quit fishin !sounds like a govnt scam .and dont plan on fishin in minn ,cuz water is too hot there also.sounds like guys just want to hog all the fish for themelves,and btw still waiting on a scientific study on post death of these fish.and how warm water hurts fishing when u see muskies up in shallow water by piers sunny or even eating during the day,on 86 degree water temps.fish dye going from extreme cold to hot water and vise versa!so catch em deep yes this is what will happen .make your own decission dont let others threaten u for enjoying a day on the lake tryin to get lucky!
And I rest my case. Smartphones are making us all dumber. |
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| we caught some fish this past weekend, water temps were 77-81, northern WI.
we fought the fish very fast, some were caught in the 8 and literally were in the net in under 10 seconds flat. It surprised me how long it took for them to revive/swim off under their own power. I don't care what anyone says. Fishing for musky in the higher temps of 80 plus is risking a dead fish. Plain and simple.
What really gets under my skin are the guys that don't fish their local waters when temps are too high but then plan trips to places like MN and don't think anything of it when the temps are the same because "they have their vacation days asked off and the rooms booked" Well ok then. To me that is selfish and shows a lack of respect for the resources. Yah some muskies will die, we fish with hooks, but temps like we have now in some areas it's just not smart to fish muskies. I will not plan to fish them again until we get a BIG cool down.
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| Great,great,great info. I have never seen this issue discussed to this degree. I have learned alot and really appreciate the shared knowledge! For my 2 cents.... always.air to the benifit of the fish. Never take our respnsibiltty to ensure a fishes return back to the resource lightly. I was going to go out tonight but now I am going to wait for a cool down. |
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Posts: 29
| Big fish = lots of O2, they are in the weeds for oxygen, not for our disposal. (i.e. literally) |
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| funny you never hear saric or heiting say they stop fishing for musky when temps get high,i have to laugh everytime some self proclaimed internet musky wizzard starts in on this ,fish adapt they have since the beginning of time.if you are that worried about a fish dying you guys should take up tennis or golf.in 38 years of muskie fishing ive seen and heard it all. |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Apparently, you have not heard it all. That is very clear. Ask any fisheries biologist who manages esocids if it's a good idea to fish them in water temps over 80 degrees if successful release is the ultimate goal. You are uninformed on the topic.
Laugh all you want, I'll leave the muskies alone in water that warm.
By the way, another thing that is well known...folks who are uniformed about a subject will, if they do not WISH to become informed on the subject for personal reasons, commonly blow off the educational experience and are highly critical of the messenger.
Yesterday, we went out and slapped around some bass. Even with the livewell going full blast with a 750 GPH pump and aerator head, half of them died within minutes, and we caught them out of 2' of water. If I'm fishing in weather this warm, I am fishing for a specie of fish I intend to harvest.
Use your mouse if you don't like learning. Please.
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Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | Cave Run water tmpt 7/6/12 -- 83 degree's --- Miller 64 Time |
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Posts: 267
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana | High water temps + catching muskies = more dead muskies
Maybe thats why mostly northern states with generally colder temps are the states with a natural muskie population...
Bottom line is you should fish for something else during hot water to preserve the resource. |
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| you take a chance of killing a fish everytime you fish for one its part of the game.that will never change,FISH DIE IT HAPPENS.how many high profile musky guys stop fishing whentemps get hot? do you think saric,heiting herbie,bill sandy,al linder stop NO!! they dont.does the pmtt or wmt cancel tournaments because of water temp ?dont think so. you guys go park your boats and watch tv ill be muskie fishing |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Steve, I'm going to break your forum rules. What an ignorant, selfish tool jrt is. |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The PMTT WOULD reschedule and event if water temps were too high, they were worried about Eagle River. The MN Dnr would shut the event down if in MN and water temps are in the 80's. WMT probably wouldn't and that speaks volumes to me, we'll see if it comes up. Don't know what Steve and Jim think of this, they have their own business to look after; head on over and ask 'em.
I'm not going to make sure the fish dies by fishing in 83 degree water for muskies and then claim I released the fish. You go ahead and do so, it's your right to, but I hope the muskie anglers fishing Shawano and the other muskie waters in the area have a word or two with you if you fish locally. If you are not concerned the fish will die, harvest it. Better than wasting a nice muskie...which does happen, but usually by those who are uniformed.
None of the Lindners would fish for Muskies in water temps that are dangerous for the fish. Ask Al next time you see him, or I could when I shoot an interview or two with him at ICAST next week.
The chances Eagle would heat up over the majority of the water colomn to over 80 degrees are pretty slim. Areas of that water that hold muskies would always be cooler. Herbie is and always has been a conservationist minded muskie angler. He just loves anonymous internet monitor moroons, too. I bet he'd have a nice pleasant word or two for you. |
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Posts: 29
| Just quit being so ignorant JRT. Its people like you that will have a negative impact on the population. Those guys that you speak of dont quit because they get paid to do it, and if you would have ever actually talked to one of them they would tell you to preserve the resorce that they love.
Edited by Apex 7/7/2012 12:56 PM
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| Common sense and a little logic is all it takes. |
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Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | Thanks Steve
Thanks Steve ! One of thr best post Iv'e seen on here for a while . I see these same BlowHards every year on saterday night of the nine day deer hunt in the bar crying in thier beer about how they missed this big buck. To Bad To Sad . IF you haven't caught enough musky's in 32 years of fishing for them then it's time to find a new sport. With 83 deg. water in the cave im' hitting the water with my fly rod for bass and my spining rod with 4lb test for the big lake blue's. blue gill taste a lot better then muskie and I can keep all I whant. Good fishing to you . Marv.
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| Thanks for the discussion, I am new to Muskie fishing and did not realize the danger to big fish in hot weather. It would be nice if Muskie lakes had some info at boat launches explaining the merits of catch and release along with the danger to fish when water is hot. I did fish in warm water this past week and had I known of the risk for Muskies I would have fished for bass. Some of us are just learning and looking for advice and best practice to preserve the Muskie resource. I just found this forum and wil be reading it regularly. |
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| Excerpt from published scientific paper (the muskie catch-and-release study aka Project Noble Beast).
"The present study revealed that increases in water temperature caused significant increases in blood glucose and plasma potassium concentrations for muskellunge relative to angling at cooler temperatures....The observed glucose concentration increases may be attributed to increased standard metabolic rates that rise as water temperatures warm (Dickson and Kramer, 1971; Cooke et al., 2001)....This particular response [elevated potassium concentrations] is of interest because potassium cations influence nerve function (Hidaka and Toida, 1969; Abe and Oka, 1999) and elevated potassium levels (i.e., hyperkalemia) can contribute to cardiac failure in mammals (Guyton, 1981; Lindinger, 1995)....Because most muskellunge angling occurs in the warm summer months (Kerr, 2007a), the potentially lethal effects of increased potassium concentrations and their relation to cardiac failure is of concern. Evidence from this study clearly indicates the propensity for physiological disturbance to increase with increasing water temperatures. Therefore, it is advisable to be cautious of the magnitude of stress imposed on muskellunge (e.g., severely limit air exposure and angling durations) when angling during periods of high water temperatures. |
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| There are mn lakes that don't always have the right stuff for natural reproduction so I would listen to your own advice. |
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Location: Illinois | Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...? |
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Location: Apple Valley | BNelson - 7/10/2012 7:28 AM
i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...?
Way over 80! I was fishing a metro lake yesterday for crappies and water temp was 86 and climbing. A co-worker texted me last night and saw 3 floaters on Tonka yesterday while he was tubing.
Brian |
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Dead ones showing up on Big Detroit too.
2 over 50" have washed up on shore since the 4th of July that I know of.
I'm sure it's just coincidence. Hot water doesn't hurt fish anymore than ciggs cause cancer I've been told.
JS |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I don't get musky guys...why do some feel the 'need' to fish with sustained water temps well into the 80s..? We cancelled our league in madison well over a week ago until most likely end of august as we know high water temps are not smart to fish in... I know another league in MN that cancelled their weekly outing this week from high water temps but there are still guys posting fish on here and in the muskies inc lunge log from lakes that have been and are over 80... yah John those floaters we all are seeing must just be heat stroke! there were a number of floaters in Madison 10 days ago and one was 49"... pretty sad some feel the need to fish.... ignorance is bliss..... i guess.
Edited by BNelson 7/10/2012 8:25 AM
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| muskellunged - 7/10/2012 12:30 AM
Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large.
Which biologist(s)? Is there any link or reference you could provide? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i spend half my life in MN and the other half in N. Wisco ... night and day difference to the heat and effect of the latest weather. MN got hammered by the heat and for a much longer period of time, N. Wisco got 5-6 days of it from about the 1st - 6th where overnight temps. were high 60's - low 70's.
up here now it really depends on what lake and what time of day/night you fish. dark water i'd steer clear of, but there are lakes with reasonable temps.. 80 deg. at noon is cooling to 75-76 at night.
sounds like Mad-town is still a cooker ...
i'll be out again tonight doing some prop testing and expect temps. to be even more stable ... it was cold again last night. sweatshirt weather after 9pm.. so, if you are fishing this coming weekend, i do suggest you head to N. Wisco. only problem is we don't have any big fish /: |
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| I think it is mostly newbies to the sport who don't yet realize the dangers of fishing in high water temps. After they catch enough fish they will learn eventually...unfortunately it will come with a price. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I don't suppose anyone besides muskie fisherman are hooking these fish that end up as floaters. It wouldn't make any sense that someone fishing with light gear is accidentally hooking these fish and playing them out, right? Maybe we can get bass and walleye guys to just snip the line when they feel a big tug.
Heck if the planet gets any hotter we'll just reverse the seasons. November 30th through May 1st. Shut er down before the spawn. |
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Unfortunatley it is not mostly newbies.
Our league is cancelled until further notice. Water temps here have been 82-86 degrees 24/7 since the 4th.
Good thing is from what I hear the bite has sucked. The water got to hot to fast in our area. That usually is a big turnoff for muskies.
JS |
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Posts: 619
| BNelson - 7/10/2012 7:28 AM
i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...?
Yep, you see pics being posted on this site and guys are out fishing metro lakes still. The fishing has already certainly declined over the past few yrs, but watch it really decline now. Soon there wont be much left to fish for. You wouldnt believe the pressure on some metro lakes. I would say there are now more muskie boats than bass boats on these metro lakes now. |
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Posts: 1039
| I live pretty close to Smokeys Musky Shop on Pewaukee Lake.
I have to hand it to the musky fishermen as there are very few rigs down there that are fishing boats. There are usually 6-10 rigs at that landing when I leave for work. There were none on Monday and one this morning. Looks like a lot of guys around here have hung up the sticks for a while.
I haven't been out in about two weeks, but the gills left the pier about a week ago. I won't go out until they are back. I am, however, going to drown some worms with my best friend's 7 year old on Thursday.
Milwaukee Chapter of Muskies Inc has cancelled the outing for Friday until the water cools down.
Big "thank you" to everyone around Milwaukee who has hung up the musky rods for a while. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Is this just a metro area lakes issue, or is the water temps the same all over MN right now? |
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Location: Illinois | Guest - 7/10/2012 8:34 AM muskellunged - 7/10/2012 12:30 AM Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large. Which biologist (s )? Is there any link or reference you could provide? I'm not a search engine. The articles and information I found are readily available on the internet, some even on this website's search engine.
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| Another point is just because the fsih swims away at the time of release does not mean it is going to be fine. Delayed mortality is real and many of these "floaters" swam away just fine. it is our responsibility as conservation minded anglers to do the right thing...20+ years ago this discussion was about releasing a muskie and how foriegn was that argument...we have come a long ways but let's continue to do the right thing to protect this resource that we have all come to enjoy so much.
Brett W |
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Posts: 619
| CiscoKid - 7/10/2012 10:44 AM
Is this just a metro area lakes issue, or is the water temps the same all over MN right now?
Pretty much just metro for the most part. The good thing is the fishing really was slow before the heat wave and guessing the guys still fishing are not catching much, at least I hope so or trying to pull them from deep water. |
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| muskellunged - 7/10/2012 12:30 AM
Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large.
Really got to stop talking about dissolved oxygen, it rarely has anything to do with it as DO levels are no lower at 80 degrees than they are in the fall. Simple heat stress is what kills the fish, rarely do dissolved oxygen levels get low enough in the summer to kill fish.
Nice article about pike kills: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/161848055.html#!page=1&pageSiz... |
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Location: Illinois | I understand that DO levels can dip dangerously low during cooler temperatures, yet I don't own a tool that can give me dissolved oxygen readings. I can however, read surface temps on the locator. Every lake is different in terms of DO fluctuation, and several variables can affect their levels. I don't discount the heat stress, nor have I. To me, it is the combining of the heat stress, the lactic acid buildup, AND the low DO levels that chases me away from chasing the muskies in hot water. From my understanding, the fish need the oxygen to fight away the lactic acid, which if the fish is not allowed to regulate can become fatal to the fish. I may not have a phd in fisheries biology, and I don't pretend to, I am merely using the tools and information at my disposal to make the decisions that leave less of a footprint on the musky fisheries I fish, period http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03334.htm
Edited by muskellunged 7/10/2012 1:13 PM
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| muskellunged - 7/10/2012 1:09 PM
I understand that DO levels can dip dangerously low during cooler temperatures, yet I don't own a tool that can give me dissolved oxygen readings. I can however, read surface temps on the locator. Every lake is different in terms of DO fluctuation, and several variables can affect their levels. I don't discount the heat stress, nor have I. To me, it is the combining of the heat stress, the lactic acid buildup, AND the low DO levels that chases me away from chasing the muskies in hot water. From my understanding, the fish need the oxygen to fight away the lactic acid, which if the fish is not allowed to regulate can become fatal to the fish. I may not have a phd in fisheries biology, and I don't pretend to, I am merely using the tools and information at my disposal to make the decisions that leave less of a footprint on the musky fisheries I fish, period http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03334.htm
According to the buoy, surface temps on Lake Mendota have been around 85 F and DO levels are around 9ppm (highest I've seen is 12). Typically in the fall, DO levels dip to 3-4 ppm. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | so what did the floaters on Waubesa in Madison die from??....oh yah, being caught in HOT water.... dead floating muskies on Metro Lakes in MN,, Madison lakes...etc, must just be a coincedence then that the temps are 80+ and dead muskies show up? that's all the proof a true sportsman should need....but whatever....bluegils are biting boys.
Edited by BNelson 7/10/2012 2:33 PM
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I think musky fishing should be shut down from May through August, especially with global warming. Water temps in May are going to increase like the globe. Musky fishing season should run from September through November. That's it. |
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| Did you read the jsonline article bn? DNR says pike are dying from the heat, not DO. Stress + heat is enough to kill the fish, nothing to do with dissolved oxygen. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i'm not saying it has anything to do with DO "guest"...just saying it's obvious guys should stop fishing for them with the high water temps but some out there need to justify why they can ..... sad.
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Posts: 317
| There have been fish kills here in N. IL on some of the shallower lakes. Seen some some very large Pike floating. Water was in the mid to upper 80's last week, but now have fallen to around 80. |
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Posts: 576
Location: WI | porterhouse - 7/10/2012 7:43 AM
BNelson - 7/10/2012 7:28 AM
i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...?
Way over 80! I was fishing a metro lake yesterday for crappies and water temp was 86 and climbing. A co-worker texted me last night and saw 3 floaters on Tonka yesterday while he was tubing.
Brian
Was out on Tonka Sunday evening and the distinct sound of double-10s klanking could be heard all around. I wondered out loud to my wife how many floaters would be out the next couple days. The air cooled some but it's going to take a heck of a lot more to cool these lakes down. |
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| I have never killed a musky or a northern in over 80 degree temps. You all talk a big game, but has any of you done it? Probably not... I'm going to fish untill something happens. Quick pic and back in the water they go. If it was such an issue why wouldnt they just shut down musky fishing during these times if its such a harmful thing? |
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| wow, more ignorance....ever hear of delayed mortality STEVEN? |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | STEVEN...you will. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | BN,
Serious question, at what water temps should musky anglers hang up the rods? |
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| I'm not asking that. I'm asking if you ever have? doesnt sound like it. What do guides do when a customer wants to pay them 300 dollars for a day of musky fishing? turn down the customer? |
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Posts: 8834
| STEVEN - 7/11/2012 9:53 AM
I have never killed a musky or a northern in over 80 degree temps. You all talk a big game, but has any of you done it? Probably not... I'm going to fish untill something happens. Quick pic and back in the water they go. If it was such an issue why wouldnt they just shut down musky fishing during these times if its such a harmful thing?
The ones that swim off and die later are just as dead as the ones that go belly up at the boat. As for why they don't shut down muskie fishing? How would THAT work? |
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| 1) I dont want them too, but for all of this talk about it being so terrible they would be pushing for something like that.
2) I know tons of guys who catch as many if not more muskys fishing for bass or jigging for walleyes. these guys hate muskies. face it! they've told me theyd rather have them out of the lakes. The take these muskies and flip them back into the water like we would a a little bass or northern that jumped on our large bait without even caring.
I'm just pointing out there could be a cause for it... and when I catch a fish and take care of it and get it back in, Ive never had a problem. But those stupid snakey northern even in cold water up in canada go belly up and i dont really care. The eagles gotta eat up there and they're dumb anyways |
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| Steven - 7/11/2012 10:08 AM
1) I dont want them too, but for all of this talk about it being so terrible they would be pushing for something like that.
2) I know tons of guys who catch as many if not more muskys fishing for bass or jigging for walleyes. these guys hate muskies. face it! they've told me theyd rather have them out of the lakes. The take these muskies and flip them back into the water like we would a a little bass or northern that jumped on our large bait without even caring.
I'm just pointing out there could be a cause for it... and when I catch a fish and take care of it and get it back in, Ive never had a problem. But those stupid snakey northern even in cold water up in canada go belly up and i dont really care. The eagles gotta eat up there and they're dumb anyways
Sled? Or someone else stirring the pot? lol |
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Location: The desert | I read a lot of "temps in the 80s or around 80". That doesn't give a definitive temp to stop. Is 77.4 degrees too warm? Is 79.9 still cool enough? |
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| Most of us posting on here probably know from experience high water temps are dangerous if you care about the fishery or the future of fishing. A lot of us probably know from experience, have fish die in the past or somehow never seeing the same fish again...hmm where did it go?? No matter what science tells you when you see it first hand that is all i need to know. When a lightly hooked, short fight and the fish wont swim away - all i need to see. Also, most dead fish sink, they do not float - i know from experience in the past... whatever floaters you are seeing there will be many more on the bottom. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | as has been discussed on here time and time again POINTER..it's not a definitive number nor can it be.... if water was 74 for a week and it got hot and flat for a day and surface temp shot to 80 one afternoon but we all know that 2 feet down it's a lot cooler then that is not what the problem is..it's SUSTAINED water and air temps that are HOT...it's really not that hard to figure out Pointer..or anyone else on here questioning what is too warm... there are those that are always going to say it's ok to fish for them no matter what...well those guys are only hurting the resource...killing fish... and there are those that protect and value the resources to make the smart decision to just lay off the muskies til it cools down..we have a league in madison with 38 guys and we choose not to fish for them a minimum 4 weeks out of the summer...why? cuz we don't like to see floaters..do you Pointer?
this isn't too hard to figure out..... but some make it more difficult to understand and comprehend than it needs to be....use good judgement...
pretty simple actually....
Edited by BNelson 7/11/2012 10:47 AM
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Location: Black Creek, WI | http://www.centralwisconsinsports.net/2012/07/northern-pike-die-off-an-ominous-glimpse-of-the-future/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=northern-pike-die-off-an-ominous-glimpse-of-the-future These fish are dying without any angler interaction at all.....
Edited by jlong 7/11/2012 10:31 AM
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| So are these
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/07/10/environment... |
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| Wasnt it just a couple years ago (I think 2008) we had the coldest summer on record? What gives. |
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| 07 and 08 were great years in my boat. Correlation? 
I know a few guides who turn down customers when water gets too warm. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I know several as well. I'm one of 'em. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let's look at it the way a biologist explained it to me.
At mid seventies, you are in the upper end of the 'preferred temp range' for muskies. Every degree from 75 up increases post capture stress related mortality. A reasonable estimate that 10% die after capture considering all factors including inexperienced angler issues would then go up some with each increase in a degree until the middle to upper 80's are reached, when depending on water quality, heat stress mortality can occur with no angling involved. Will every fish CPR'd in 80 degree water die? No, but enough will that it's conservation minded to not fish them when average water column temps are that high.Mid to upper 80's? More will die. So the sliding scale starts in to near 80 degree range where stressing the fish with lots of images and out of the water handling is a bad idea. Near 80 to 90, good idea to leave them alone.
Again...will every fish die that is caught... No, and that's a constant with CPR no matter the conditions. Will MORE die when the water is hot? Yes. Will fewer of that number die with quick capture and immediate release without taking the fish out of the water? Yes. Still too much of a risk for me. |
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| If you have to fish, and you're going to kill a fish because it's hot, at least kill one you can eat. I'm not even sure what the argument is about. Muskies are cold water fish, they are likely to die all on their own if it gets got enough. And it's hot enough. |
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| Muskies are actually classified as cool-water species, not cold-water, which would be lake trout, whitefish, etc. |
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| Guest - 7/11/2012 12:47 PM
Muskies are actually classified as cool-water species, not cold-water, which would be lake trout, whitefish, etc.
Preferred temperature range is what, 68 - 72? Classify them however you want, they weren't made to live in 85 degree water. |
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| Great topic. I was on the St.croix last night being a boater for the Junior bass club. I saw a big fish swirl and decided to take a cast. After a few casts I noticed the surface temp of 86.5. I put the rod down and just enjoyed the night. 3 bass that were caught did not make it all of them under 16 inches. I can only imagine what would have happened to a big old tothy critter. Last week on lotw on the angle i was seeing temps 75-78. I know it has been still up there this week and hot I hope the musky school takes that into consideration. Again great topic
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | BMG - 7/11/2012 1:58 PM
Great topic. I was on the St.croix last night being a boater for the Junior bass club. I saw a big fish swirl and decided to take a cast. After a few casts I noticed the surface temp of 86.5. I put the rod down and just enjoyed the night. 3 bass that were caught did not make it all of them under 16 inches. I can only imagine what would have happened to a big old tothy critter. Last week on lotw on the angle i was seeing temps 75-78. I know it has been still up there this week and hot I hope the musky school takes that into consideration. Again great topic
hmm..what do you suggest the school does then BMG? lay down the rods? |
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| esoxaddict - 7/11/2012 12:54 PM
Guest - 7/11/2012 12:47 PM
Muskies are actually classified as cool-water species, not cold-water, which would be lake trout, whitefish, etc.
Preferred temperature range is what, 68 - 72? Classify them however you want, they weren't made to live in 85 degree water.
Then how come they're doing so well in Kentucky, TN, IL, MO, etc.? Muskies are native to KY, as in they've been there a long long time. Pretty sure if they weren't made to live in "hot" water they wouldn't be thriving there. Those little backwoods creeks in KY and TN surely get well into the 80s, if not 90s, yet they seem to be doing fine judging by the photos you see posted here, In-Fisherman, etc.
There's a big difference between "optimal temperature" and "thermal tolerance." In a nutshell, one explains the temperature at which a fish grows the fastest, without having to allocate a disproportionate amount of energy to other processes (like coping with thermal stress). The other is usually divided into an upper and lower extreme, above or below the fish finds it hard to survive.
The take-home message here is what Steve indicated: the RISK of mortality increases with water temperature. Doesn't mean the fish is going to die, but it might, perhaps more so now than at other times of the year.
By the way, muskies are far more resilient than we make them out to be... |
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| Guest - 7/11/2012 2:27 PM
esoxaddict - 7/11/2012 12:54 PM
Guest - 7/11/2012 12:47 PM
Muskies are actually classified as cool-water species, not cold-water, which would be lake trout, whitefish, etc.
Preferred temperature range is what, 68 - 72? Classify them however you want, they weren't made to live in 85 degree water.
Then how come they're doing so well in Kentucky, TN, IL, MO, etc.? Muskies are native to KY, as in they've been there a long long time. Pretty sure if they weren't made to live in "hot" water they wouldn't be thriving there. Those little backwoods creeks in KY and TN surely get well into the 80s, if not 90s, yet they seem to be doing fine judging by the photos you see posted here, In-Fisherman, etc.
There's a big difference between "optimal temperature" and "thermal tolerance." In a nutshell, one explains the temperature at which a fish grows the fastest, without having to allocate a disproportionate amount of energy to other processes (like coping with thermal stress ). The other is usually divided into an upper and lower extreme, above or below the fish finds it hard to survive.
The take-home message here is what Steve indicated: the RISK of mortality increases with water temperature. Doesn't mean the fish is going to die, but it might, perhaps more so now than at other times of the year.
By the way, muskies are far more resilient than we make them out to be...
Couldnt disagree more... how many fish do u catch a year? how many have u handled... IMO they are much less resilient than people think based on experience. |
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Location: Okoboji | ok we get it...hot not acceptable to fish...cool acceptable to fish....now spend your gas money and spare time buying more baits lol
Edited by kodiak 7/11/2012 2:45 PM
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If the fish are dying anyways perhaps we should make a push to stop stocking, it would be pointless to stock fish that have a chance to die if the water temps get too high. Perhaps after a few years of cooler summers it could be revisited, but it would seem stop to fish is not enough if you care for the muskie, not stocking them at all at this point sounds best. BR |
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| Guest - 7/11/2012 2:27 PM
esoxaddict - 7/11/2012 12:54 PM
Guest - 7/11/2012 12:47 PM
Muskies are actually classified as cool-water species, not cold-water, which would be lake trout, whitefish, etc.
Preferred temperature range is what, 68 - 72? Classify them however you want, they weren't made to live in 85 degree water.
Then how come they're doing so well in Kentucky, TN, IL, MO, etc.? Muskies are native to KY, as in they've been there a long long time. Pretty sure if they weren't made to live in "hot" water they wouldn't be thriving there. Those little backwoods creeks in KY and TN surely get well into the 80s, if not 90s, yet they seem to be doing fine judging by the photos you see posted here, In-Fisherman, etc.
There's a big difference between "optimal temperature" and "thermal tolerance." In a nutshell, one explains the temperature at which a fish grows the fastest, without having to allocate a disproportionate amount of energy to other processes (like coping with thermal stress ). The other is usually divided into an upper and lower extreme, above or below the fish finds it hard to survive.
The take-home message here is what Steve indicated: the RISK of mortality increases with water temperature. Doesn't mean the fish is going to die, but it might, perhaps more so now than at other times of the year.
By the way, muskies are far more resilient than we make them out to be...
I guess that depends on your definition of "doing well"...
To me "doing well" would mean that they reach their maximum growth potential, are able to reproduce, and don't have shortened lifespans.
Just because they are stocked in great numbers and catchable does not mean they are "doing well"...
They may be more resilliant than some folks think, but if you've never had trouble releasing one in warm water, you haven't fished much in much warm water. |
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| Many of the inconsiderate people who still insist on fishing muskies in these extreme high temps don't know any better, which is one thing. THis being said there are way too many guys who SHOULD know better and just refuse to believe it or accept it because THEY want to fish still. This is sickening to me. Why would so many of us die-hards just quit fishing at this time of year for no reason?? Like many of you I eat, sleep, and breathe musky fishing. If I could I would do it 365 days a year. Why would I just give that up right now for no reason? Maybe because there is a legitimate reason.
I REALLY hope a lot of these guests are just playing around and messing with the rest of us. |
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| Ja Rule - 7/11/2012 4:45 PM
Many of the inconsiderate people who still insist on fishing muskies in these extreme high temps don't know any better, which is one thing. THis being said there are way too many guys who SHOULD know better and just refuse to believe it or accept it because THEY want to fish still. This is sickening to me. Why would so many of us die-hards just quit fishing at this time of year for no reason?? Like many of you I eat, sleep, and breathe musky fishing. If I could I would do it 365 days a year. Why would I just give that up right now for no reason? Maybe because there is a legitimate reason.
I REALLY hope a lot of these guests are just playing around and messing with the rest of us.
You should relax and not worry about it. Heck people smoke cigarettes even though it is going to kill themselves, of course they are not going to worry about fish. Like I mentioned before, if the fish are not surviving perhaps they should not be stocked. BR |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's ridiculous, Ben. I'm sure everyone appreciates the obvious statements pointing out some over the top counters, but enough already guys. Something to add of substance would be nice right now. |
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| Caught and released a 36 incher. Water temps probably around 83-85 degrees on pewaukee lake wisconsin. Got him in. Got some pics and watched him swim off as good as any other musky I've released. And dont tell me its going to be a floater, cuz I know what a floater looks like. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | why take a pic of a rat?? |
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| I agree, why take a pic of a dink...no reason. Pop it off, dont even net it unless its hooked really bad. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | steven - 7/12/2012 11:57 AM
Caught and released a 36 incher. Water temps probably around 83-85 degrees on pewaukee lake wisconsin. Got him in. Got some pics and watched him swim off as good as any other musky I've released. And dont tell me its going to be a floater, cuz I know what a floater looks like.
I was going to stay out of this one, but can't any longer. Steven all I will say to your last post is this. Smaller fish will handle stress/heat much better than larger fish. Think about it. Have a young, skinny person and an old, fat person run a 100 yard dash in a 90° day. Which one will fair better, and have a better chance at not croaking? |
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Location: oswego, il | Steven, just because you released one that swam off fine does not mean the next one will. The next one might not be in the best of condition but still strong enoigh to eat but the stress of capture could put it in peril. I know how you feel. I love musky fishing too and its killing me not to go. I have not musky fished since may 6. |
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| I didn't catch it. It was a cousin of mine and it was his first musky he's ever caught. Had to take a picture of that "rat". Probably his best day ever out fishing.... either way yes. I like that fat person comparison. I love my muskies like I love my women, but those don't come around that often. |
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| "If the fish are dying anyways perhaps we should make a push to stop stocking, it would be pointless to stock fish that have a chance to die if the water temps get too high. Perhaps after a few years of cooler summers it could be revisited, but it would seem stop to fish is not enough if you care for the muskie, not stocking them at all at this point sounds best. BR"
Or we as educated anglers could lead by example and fish for something else for a month or so of the season or year depending on where a person lives. I just don't understand the debate ... Why all the drama? Stressed fish, plants, animals, etc have a higher risk of death than those that aren't stressed ... If a fish can't breath because there is a lack of oxygen it will die. Give back to the sport and give back to these fish that have given us all so much. Try to help a person understand that may not know about stress related mortality on your favorite bodies of water. |
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| BenR - 7/12/2012 12:41 PM
Thad - 7/12/2012 12:32 PM
"If the fish are dying anyways perhaps we should make a push to stop stocking, it would be pointless to stock fish that have a chance to die if the water temps get too high. Perhaps after a few years of cooler summers it could be revisited, but it would seem stop to fish is not enough if you care for the muskie, not stocking them at all at this point sounds best. BR"
Or we as educated anglers could lead by example and fish for something else for a month or so of the season or year depending on where a person lives. I just don't understand the debate ... Why all the drama? Stressed fish, plants, animals, etc have a higher risk of death than those that aren't stressed ... If a fish can't breath because there is a lack of oxygen it will die. Give back to the sport and give back to these fish that have given us all so much. Try to help a person understand that may not know about stress related mortality on your favorite bodies of water.
It would appear that fish are dying due to the hot temps, not due to being caught. It is just no longer an appropriate environment based on the links provided in this thread. If people are not fishing and they are dying due to a changing weather pattern, perhaps the best thing is to not stock them. BR
The hottest year on record is just that - one year. If this is the new normal, than you are right - it makes no more sense than it would to stock them in Florida. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Does anyone have the correct instrument to check the temp throughout the water column right now, along with D.O. levels? I think Gelb has it, but not sure how to get a hold of him. I think it would be very interesting to see in the morning water the water profile would look like, as well as at noon, and then again say at 10:00 at night. Anyone in WI know someone that does the Lake Monitoring on lakes in northern WI, and ask them if they could do this on a lake? Does Jordan Weeks have access to the equipment needed that he could do this?
It wouldn’t put to rest the argument of heat being bad for muskies, but it may show how far down right now that the water is warm.
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | BenR - 7/12/2012 12:53 PM
esoxaddict - 7/12/2012 12:46 PM
BenR - 7/12/2012 12:41 PM
Thad - 7/12/2012 12:32 PM
"If the fish are dying anyways perhaps we should make a push to stop stocking, it would be pointless to stock fish that have a chance to die if the water temps get too high. Perhaps after a few years of cooler summers it could be revisited, but it would seem stop to fish is not enough if you care for the muskie, not stocking them at all at this point sounds best. BR"
Or we as educated anglers could lead by example and fish for something else for a month or so of the season or year depending on where a person lives. I just don't understand the debate ... Why all the drama? Stressed fish, plants, animals, etc have a higher risk of death than those that aren't stressed ... If a fish can't breath because there is a lack of oxygen it will die. Give back to the sport and give back to these fish that have given us all so much. Try to help a person understand that may not know about stress related mortality on your favorite bodies of water.
It would appear that fish are dying due to the hot temps, not due to being caught. It is just no longer an appropriate environment based on the links provided in this thread. If people are not fishing and they are dying due to a changing weather pattern, perhaps the best thing is to not stock them. BR
The hottest year on record is just that - one year. If this is the new normal, than you are right - it makes no more sense than it would to stock them in Florida.
This is not a new discussion, has become an annual event on here. BR
I see where Ben is going with it, but I’ll take a different tact. I think since fish are dying we need to stock MORE, not less, fish to ensure our fisheries maintain the status quo. Besides I think the links provided here for fish dying "naturally" are that of pike so using that as a reason to stop stocking muskies is kind of silly. |
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BNelson - some people just can't be reached ... To each his own, I just hope Ben & Pointer don't come fish the lake(s) I do. I'd like to see a fishable population of muskies in there down the road. Given the shape the DNR dept is in in my state there are no guarantees any will ever be stocked again.
I wish you all well and hope you have a safe rest of your fishing season. PP, good luck on your upcoming fishing trip. |
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Location: Smith Creek | Let's ask the resort owners if they want to have clients cancel if the water's too warm. But they aren't responsible for the stocking so forget them. And the license sales from out of staters don't help stocking either.
You know, not everyone has the ability to go on vacation whenever they please. Some people only get a week or two a year to fish and need to book everything months in advance. And lets just say during that week they catch 4 fish. It's hot so they all die.
Now lets say there's a guy who fishes 140 days of season and boats, what's the number? 120? 180 fish a year? Who killed more fish? And who's $25.00 license aided the fishery more?
Not fishing when it's over 80 is personal choice and a good one, but calling someone out for not canceling everything they've planned so they don't kill "your" fish is pretty weak.
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Flambeauski - 7/12/2012 1:47 PM
Let's ask the resort owners if they want to have clients cancel if the water's too warm. But they aren't responsible for the stocking so forget them. And the license sales from out of staters don't help stocking either.
You know, not everyone has the ability to go on vacation whenever they please. Some people only get a week or two a year to fish and need to book everything months in advance. And lets just say during that week they catch 4 fish. It's hot so they all die.
Now lets say there's a guy who fishes 140 days of season and boats, what's the number? 120? 180 fish a year? Who killed more fish? And who's $25.00 license aided the fishery more?
Not fishing when it's over 80 is personal choice and a good one, but calling someone out for not canceling everything they've planned so they don't kill "your" fish is pretty weak.
I must say I have to agree, to some point, with this. Say 100% of the fish die for someone who catches 4 fish in their trip during extreme heat, and only fish once a year. Now say 10%, I think that is the number thrown around, die of delayed mortality for someone throughout a year that catches 150 fish during "cool" water conditions. OUCH!
I do think if you visit this board or any other you have been made aware of the hgih water temp issue, and can plan vacations accordingly. For example if we are to have issues in northern WI with high water temps it is usually mid-late Jul. This year was abnormal. Plan accordingly next time and plan a trip in June or Aug.
For those that take vacations and want to go musky fishing...you can still not musky fish. Since giving up guiding I musky fish much less than before, and I cherish the time I do get to go for them. However I fished very little last week for muskies once I saw what the temps were from Wed-Sun. in northern WI. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | good points Flambeuski and Travis ...
if you are a vacationer and want to one up your odds and two reduce the risk ... hit the bobbers for pannies n smallies until sunset and then fish bigger water starting much later. the odds both ways will be in your favor 1. contacting fish and 2. releasing successfully.
another idea is if you come up here through Minocqua and you catch 3 fish ... stop at the MuskyShop and buy 3 fish just in-case. there is a direct money-to-fish fundraiser going on and it will make your return trip have less guilt. for anyone who isn't aware call the muskyshop and/or stop in next time and buy some for our area lakes!! win/win
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Now there is a good productive addition to this thread .. Nicely done Sled! |
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| You can't blame the guys who plan their trips a year in advance. That's their vacation, probably the only one they get, and they took that vacation for the sole purpose of going musky fishing. If they are like the rest of us, they spent the whole year waiting for that one week. I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't be out there. But the guys who live ten minutes from the lake and can fish after work every night, or put in two days over the weekend, every weekend? Those are folks who should know better.
And I'm not buying the 10% delayed mortality rate. 10% for who? Someone who has never caught one before, dragged the fish up in shore, and doesn't have any tools? 10% for the less experienced who take longer to unhook the fish? 10% for the guy who takes 5 pictures of every fish?
I've had boatside fish go in the net green, come unpinned in the net, out of the net, quick picture, and back in the water off the other side of the boat in less than a minute. If guys who fish all of the time are killing 10% if them, there wouldn't be any left. |
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Location: Illinois | CiscoKid - 7/12/2012 1:57 PM For those that take vacations and want to go musky fishing...you can still not musky fish. I'm a big panfish on the pier guy on my vacay when the temps are 80+ It is about the only time besides winter that I target pannies. It is a LOT of fun too! Cooler of brews, some leeches, and the fresh Wisco Air? Bring the jambox dockside and I'm in a state of nirvana. Not the kind that smells like teen spirit, either! 
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Just to remind a couple folks the subject has been covered.....allot. |
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