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| http://www.startribune.com/local/west/159885555.html
Please comment. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | They can only do it if they own the landing. If they took State, DNR or Federal dollars I don't think they can do that. |
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Posts: 793
Location: Ames, Iowa | Better not want to go fishing Monday-Thursday in the late morning/afternoon. Bet that will change. |
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Posts: 321
| Look at the bright side, less pressure and less mishandling of fish! H |
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | when is the fishing tournament on christmas lake? |
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Posts: 785
| I realize this isn't the point but I get a kick out of how the pictures' comment is that the two guys with spinning gear are there to muskie fish on May 9th... |
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Posts: 719
| This is a really serious issue, it sets the ball rolling for privatizing public waters via city sanctions.
They are not limiting access they are denying it. |
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| I can't believe there are only six now seven replies on this.
Bob is 100 percent correct they are denying access. Thought it would take longer for rights to slip away but we have arrived ladies and gents. |
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| Bob is correct. This is very serious and another example of government imposing its will on its citizens.
I have no problem with the inspection portion. I have gone thru this at multiple lakes and it has not been a problem, but we are now talking about *denying* access. They have already closed a public access in its entirety at Wirth.
95% of all users would still be inspected during the proposed inspection hours, but the Park Board has taken the wrong approach by closing the launch when inspectors are not present. (And then the lake magically opens up October 1).
As it stands if you want to fish according to the moon at 4am you are out of luck. If you only want to work a half-day and launch at 1pm on a Tuesday, you are out of luck. Not to mention there is no way that canoes and kayaks can be inspected as they can put in anywhere on the lakes.
Would be interested in hearing about the legal ground the Park Board has in making this unfortunate decision.
TW
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Posts: 321
| There is a fire ban in Colorado on public/national land. Don't see it an limiting my rights at all. Also have had to stay off lakes when water was too high due to flooding. Made sense. At times it makes sense. H |
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Posts: 128
| I doubt they will be able to legally get away with this... Also, as stated above, canoes and kayaks (possibly transporting invasives) can access those lakes at any point along the shoreline. I think that fact alone would be source of enough conflict/enforcement headaches/etc. to maybe make these dummies realize they are making a mistake. Then again common sense never really seems to register with these folks on so called boards and committees. |
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Posts: 8840
| I can't believe this one will fly. There are way too many people who launch and load outside of those hours. Suppose you have a home on the lake, and need to get your boat out of the water during the week. Suppose you are out fishing past "inspection hours"...
I can't believe anybody involved in this would expect anything to come of this other than this costing the DNR a lot of money spent replacing chains, probably on a daily basis.
Edited by esoxaddict 6/21/2012 3:48 PM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | get involved!!!
there was a similar slippery slope in our area not long ago.
go get involved. now would be a good time for all of the fish-related groups to come together in unison.
jeff: can't believe?
- ventura
- wellstone
- franken
best to believe anything is possible in MN |
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Posts: 8840
| jonnysled - 6/21/2012 3:54 PM
get involved!!!
there was a similar slippery slope in our area not long ago.
go get involved. now would be a good time for all of the fish-related groups to come together in unison.
jeff: can't believe?
- ventura
- wellstone
- franken
best to believe anything is possible in MN
Perhaps I should clarify - I believe they would be incompetent and uninformed enough to think this is a plausible solution. What I do NOT believe is that it will ever be implemented after the likely crapstorm that will ensue from all the people who use the lakes outside of those hours. When the bean counters start figuring out the potential lost revenue, and they have to hire a full time crew to drive around replacing chains all day long, this one will go to it's rightful place in the file of "really stupid ideas that seemed good at the time" |
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Posts: 2361
| This definitely creates a special user class for property owners, and is the start for denying peasants rights to hunt in the royal forest.
Good luck with all this. These lake associations do NOT view you as a user entitled to use public waters, and they will exclude you if possible. |
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Posts: 128
| Here's the contact I was sent for Minneapolis Parks and Rec, email or call and make your voice heard.
CONTACT: Robin Smothers
Communications Specialist
Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
612-230-6410, [email protected] |
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Posts: 256
| I don't fish the Mpls lakes but after reading the article if the access is chained when inspectors are not present if you start fishing at say 7 a.m. after an inspection but have to leave at 2 p.m., how do you get your boat out if the access is chained off because the inspectors won't be back until 5 p.m.?
Also, are the lakes going to be closed on October 1 than too? |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This has nothing to do with the spread of invasive species, and everything to do with using the threat as an excuse to limit access by the public. If the concern is a need for continuous daylight inspections, they need to fund them and make it so.
I can't believe this is going to fly, but one never knows. |
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Posts: 3157
| xmas lakes going to be chained off-I thought Christmas was all about sharing!!!!!!
Has a MPLs born resident dosent surprise me about the city lakes
now the yacht club that have their boats tendered on the lake harriet can have it to themselfs alot of the time,,,we cant use gas motors but the sailboaters can use gas motors to get to their boats and use has regatta judges..
they kick a little 14 yr old kid out of the park for renting little toy remote control sailboats that EVERYBODY loved that have no motors make no noise have no impact on the lake a chance for him to make some money for cd's or maybe Xbox because they think its private vending but at the same time allow a private restaurant on Calhoun and Minnehaha falls park
mark my words,,,launching fee,yearly pass is next somebodys gotta pay for those inspectors
Edited by happy hooker 6/21/2012 6:29 PM
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | I have a truck and a log chain in the back of my truck. I am sure my 4x4 can take care of the access being blocked if I need to get off the lake  So does this mean I can pay less taxes for every public lake I am blocked from too? Awesome! More money for tackle and fishing vacations out of the state.
What a bunch of BS!
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Posts: 559
| What makes those lakes any more important than any other? I bet if you ask a resident of those lakes you wil get a clear answer. |
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Posts: 223
Location: Victoria,MN | happy hooker - 6/21/2012 6:04 PM
I thought Christmas was all about sharing!!!!!!
It is, as long as you live on the lake!
You know that the Mpls park board has been preasured big time by any "special interest" groups etc. and the will continue to apply preasure until they get their way.
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Posts: 559
| This is what I am talking about. If you live on the lake you are King at the public's expense. |
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| http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200472205_200472205
Should just about do it, wouldn't you say? |
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Posts: 1270
| This is scary but doesn't really surprise me. I don't see a lot of protest about being required to have the plug out of your boat on the highways or allowing the MN DNR to search your boat and vehicle with no warrant, etc. I'm sorry but it seems that Minnesotan's don't put up much of a fight when the state takes away their rights one at a time as long as the state claims it's for the good of the natural resources. |
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| Of course we don't protest. Ventura, Wellstone, Franken, Ellison we love our "progressive" elected officials! |
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| Under the new AIS law in Minnesota, paid or volunteer "inspectors" at the landings have the right to touch your boat/trailer and look inside your boat compartments/livewells. This goes well beyond looking at your boat and asking you to pull the weeds off the trailer.
This is a right that even police officers do not have when they pull you over on the highway! Can you say illegal search and seizure / invasion of privacy?
The AIS bugaboo is being used to infringe upon many of your Constitutionally guaranteed rights.
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| Exactly, show me your papers! |
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Posts: 1270
| And if I'm headed to North Dakota from Wisconsin towing my boat and get pulled over for not having the plug in my boat didn't they just interfere with interstate commerce? |
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | I am serious on the Christmas lake "tournament" lets get together as many boats and gear as we can and have a swap and whatever and just cruise the lake....make a statement |
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Posts: 130
Location: Duluth, MN | Just looks like everyone will have to upsize the Knipex. |
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| The Strib story has been updated to include comments from the Mn DNR. In short, they are NOT happy about not being consulted and are questioning the legality of the restrictions.
I predict this all comes to a head real soon and it's going to get ugly.
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Posts: 373
Location: Maine Township, MN | Goes to show the intelligence of our government. Sad. |
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Posts: 719
|
A copy of a letter I just wrote to the writer for the Trib ...I missed her call on Wednesday before she wrote her pieces and have interviewed with her before.
Consider writing the people who have influence, whether its reporting or regulating they need to hear from anglers before this ball really gets rolling and we loose our freedom to access public waters on our schedules.
"Hi Kelly,
Sorry I missed you the other day.
The recent closures (or intent to do so) of ramps in Minneapolis and Shoreview are setting a dangerous precedent that I think is being understated as reported by the media as a whole. The statements from park board and other lawmakers are along the line of "we are not closing the lakes" so that is the published message but in reality they are. By having limited hours for access they are severely affecting who can use these resources of our state. If one works during the "approved" and staffed launching hours you are effectively denied access...if you want to stay out later and fish after dark you do not have that option.
In short if every city or group that has property around a lake has the ability to limit access we lose our ability to freely enjoy the resources of our state....resources we all pay taxes to support.
Invasive's managed to come from as far as Europe (Zebra's) to local waters, unfortunately the spread is inevitable.
Please consider this angle.
Thanks and call me anytime when you need something,
Bob Turgeon"
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| Guys, seriously, there is a silver lining here. The restrictions will scare off the joe blow weekend warrior who doesn't care about muskies. Bascially, the guys who don't know how to handle muskies will not bother fishing the city lakes anymore! Fewer catches by inexperienced muskie anglers is a GOOD THING! Those of us who are regulars on the city lakes won't be bothered by the new restrictions one bit.
This is a good thing for the resource. If you care about the muskies in the city lakes, support this new requirement!! It will only improve the system. |
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Posts: 97
Location: Milwaukee, WI | Admittedly, I am neither a legal expert nor a resident of Minnesota. But... there is no way that this can be constitutional, can it? Would this stand up to a legal challenge? I would think there would be a number of firms willing to take this case pro bono for the opportunity to take on and beat the state. The PR value alone would justify the expense, I'll bet. |
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | Guest - 6/22/2012 10:45 AM
Guys, seriously, there is a silver lining here. The restrictions will scare off the joe blow weekend warrior who doesn't care about muskies. Bascially, the guys who don't know how to handle muskies will not bother fishing the city lakes anymore! Fewer catches by inexperienced muskie anglers is a GOOD THING! Those of us who are regulars on the city lakes won't be bothered by the new restrictions one bit.
This is a good thing for the resource. If you care about the muskies in the city lakes, support this new requirement!! It will only improve the system.
huh?? so what about fishing at night on these lakes? how is this good for the musky fisherman? Also fishing during the week is out of the question. nothing good at all about this. |
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Posts: 223
Location: Victoria,MN | !!!
Edited by T-Bone 6/22/2012 12:10 PM
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| Guest - 6/22/2012 10:45 AM
Guys, seriously, there is a silver lining here. The restrictions will scare off the joe blow weekend warrior who doesn't care about muskies. Bascially, the guys who don't know how to handle muskies will not bother fishing the city lakes anymore! Fewer catches by inexperienced muskie anglers is a GOOD THING! Those of us who are regulars on the city lakes won't be bothered by the new restrictions one bit.
This is a good thing for the resource. If you care about the muskies in the city lakes, support this new requirement!! It will only improve the system.
Not only delusional, but selfish too. Best thing about the metro fishery is Joe Shmo has a chance a nice fish, like the rest of us who are lucky enough to have boats. |
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Posts: 223
Location: Victoria,MN | kodiak - 6/22/2012 12:03 PM
Guest - 6/22/2012 10:45 AM
Guys, seriously, there is a silver lining here. The restrictions will scare off the joe blow weekend warrior who doesn't care about muskies. Bascially, the guys who don't know how to handle muskies will not bother fishing the city lakes anymore! Fewer catches by inexperienced muskie anglers is a GOOD THING! Those of us who are regulars on the city lakes won't be bothered by the new restrictions one bit.
This is a good thing for the resource. If you care about the muskies in the city lakes, support this new requirement!! It will only improve the system.
huh?? so what about fishing at night on these lakes? how is this good for the musky fisherman? Also fishing during the week is out of the question. nothing good at all about this.
Jason I was trying to ignore that fool!
Once Again...Thanks bturg!!!
Edited by T-Bone 6/22/2012 12:10 PM
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Posts: 321
| Plenty of public spaces have hours of operations. You can go to state and national parks and they actually close areas to all use for the habitat as well. Not really a legal issue at all that standsouts unless public water has special regulations. H |
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Posts: 8840
| Homer - 6/22/2012 12:51 PM
Plenty of public spaces have hours of operations. You can go to state and national parks and they actually close areas to all use for the habitat as well. Not really a legal issue at all that standsouts unless public water has special regulations. H
That may be true, but we're not talking about national parks here. We are talking about restricting public access to lakes for everyone but those folks who live on the lake and keep their boat on the lake. A lot of guys like to demonize the lake associations here, but if you live on the lake and keep your boat in the garage you'll be restricted just like everyone else. |
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Posts: 719
| Talked with Kelly at the trib for a bit and also please note it's Shorewood not Shoreview as I originally wrote.
If any one hears more detail about closings or challenges to the same please let me know so I can share that with her and make efforts to have the whole issue noted not just the Park Board policy statement's .
I'm not sure why some folks here don't see this as a big step to having limited access to any lake with a special interest group that can lobby to shut it down. Lets not forget that the group that got X-Mas lake a gate and hourly regulations wanted to do the same on Tonka and others lakes in the area as well. They just picked on a lake that they had pull with the city on.
Do you want the city/county/state telling you what hours you can access waters. |
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Posts: 8840
| What if you dump your boat in at 6:30 am during the week, and only want to fish until noon? They closed the landing at 10:00am. Now what? If the launch isn't open, you're not getting OFF the lake either. |
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Posts: 619
| The spread of invasives cannot be stopped.. i think it is big waste of time and money to even attempt to try eliminate the spread.
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Posts: 321
| esoxaddict - 6/22/2012 2:41 PM
What if you dump your boat in at 6:30 am during the week, and only want to fish until noon? They closed the landing at 10:00am. Now what? If the launch isn't open, you're not getting OFF the lake either.
Probably would only do that once and then figure it out from there. H |
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Posts: 3157
| talked to the MPL's parkboard today abot this issue they said its full speed ahead with this program and WILL happen
the scary thing is nobody there knew what was going to happen after sept 30th when the inspectors are not on duty anymore,,,I do know this the sailboat bouy rentals have to clear the lake by Oct 7-8th Columbus day
just my opinion but Im guessing now that theres no more sailboat use of the bouys the city will shut the whole lake down to incoming boat traffic on Oct 1st otherwise it wouldnt make any sense to have the inspection program through sept 30th which means we lose what is considered to be the best trophy window Oct-Nov. again just my opinion
The person in charge of or contact is gone for rest of day fri-22
her name is Deb Pilger of MPL's parkboard
612-313-7728
if you want more info give a call but "please' dont get on the voicemail and rant and rave" A couple of us have left a message to call back |
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| Bob,
Carver County had been requested by Friends of Lake Bavaria, the lake association, to add a gate at the launch and require all boats to be inspected at Lake Minnewashta prior to launching. (7 miles between lakes is what I've heard).
I have heard, but can't personally confirm, that the County only agreed to add add inspectors at the Bavaria launch. No blackout times for accessing the lake. No gate.
I feel this is going to put a lot of pressure on the DNR to develop a coordinated strategy. Seems like inspectors could be funded via Legacy Funds. |
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Posts: 581
Location: deephaven mn | esoxaddict - 6/22/2012 2:41 PM
What if you dump your boat in at 6:30 am during the week, and only want to fish until noon? They closed the landing at 10:00am. Now what? If the launch isn't open, you're not getting OFF the lake either.
not allowing you on without an inspection is understandable, but not letting you off the lake is ridiculous! |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Just curious, how is MN state statute written re: public access to state owned/publicly owned waters? Just wondering if something can be brought up/amended there to ensure this doesn't happen in the future/put this to bed. Scary for residents there for sure, and a wake up call elsewhere. |
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Posts: 130
Location: Duluth, MN | I suppose if the city owns the access they can probably do as they see fit (not that it's necessarily the right right thing to do. If it is private or state owned that would seem to be a different story. We should be pushing for more state owned (or private) accesses and just carry a bolt cutters in the mean time. Also, I think it will be really interesting the first time someone can't get their boat off of a lake that gets violent and there's an injury, death, or property damage. It would seem like the city may be in for a lawsuit. |
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Location: Minneapolis | Christmas lake homeowners association worried about invasive species (AKA other people using "their" lake). |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Also, are they trying to keep invasives out of the lakes named here, or out of other lakes in the area? Just curious, as a couple of the lakes in question are already infested with certain invasives, some of it spread by the use of lake Assn funded weed cutting/moving/uprooting over the past decade or so.
Edited by Reef Hawg 6/23/2012 8:13 AM
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Posts: 30
| Mpls also charges $35 for parking passes...so you pay for a pass but are denied access to the lakes?
In the metro the battle against invasives is a joke. This is about something else. There is alot of money being put into staffing those accesses.
Edited by muskyball 6/23/2012 9:20 AM
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Posts: 30
| I emailed several of the Park Board staff; my primary question was in regard to getting off the water if there were no inspector (say you launch at 6 and fish till noon).
A response from the assistant superintendent of operations was : "You will be able to exit anytime by dropping the chain and replacing it after you remove your boat. The restriction hours only apply to launching."
So, not so bad if you fish in the AM or at night... but for early afternoon not good... and fall fishing uncertain. |
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| So there's a Constitutional right to fish in Minnesota, just not from a boat when the launches are chained shut?
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/cco/rules/mncon/Article13.htm
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Posts: 30
| lol, fishing is protected, but it doesn't seem as if sailboating made the list of miscellaneous subjects. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | If they took $.01 of Federal dollars they can't limit the access like this. It's through Federal Statute that allows us all access to ALL waters in the USA. I've spoken to some people who are in the know and it's doubtful they will be able to shut it down. It may go to court, but in the end they can't do it.
What is scary is that a lot of launches were made with private/city money and they CAN shut them down. There are going to have to be some consequences for these politicians who support this kind of legislation and it needs to be VERY public what they are trying to do. |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Here is an easy way to shut this down. Support it but ONLY if there are NO boats allowed on the lake when the launches are closed. Then even the people who live on the lake are not allowed to have their boat undocked and all boats must be docked or off the lake during these "Closed" times.... My guess is they will not support that one  With this crappy economy I would think they would have better things to do than this. Like help feed hungry out of work families! |
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| Shawn and/or Bob:
Do either of you know how much water dumps into Minnehaha from Lake Minnetonka? If its a considerable amount do you think zebra mussels, considering their incredibly adaptable and dynamic abilities, could spread from Tonka into the city lakes via Minnehaha?
Just curious. Thanks.
Ryan Connelly |
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Posts: 225
Location: Nordeast Minneapolis | I don't know that it changes the conversation necessarily, but I should point out for those not familiar with the Minneapolis metro lakes... no one actually 'lives' on Harriet or Calhoun. It's not the same as a lake like White Bear or Minnetonka, in the sense that even if you have a view of the lake, you don't have access. You can't have a dock out. You can't have your boat tied up (unless it's a sailboat). The entire lakeshore is park land. So I wouldn't compare this to something like homeowner's associations of Minnetonka trying to essentially privatize the landings.
And as to the argument of keeping those inexperienced with handling muskies off the lake, I would bet the vast majority of fish caught on either lake come from people fishing from shore, or the casting docks scattered around. In my experience, a large number of people fishing there are fishing musky, are doing so with limited equipment and experience, and are using sucker minnows with single hooks rather than a quickset rig. It's not uncommon to see a floater in the weeds by the casting docks... not sure if that's related to tools, hooks, experience or just bad luck, but it happens.
As to whether or not this would keep invasives out longer, I don't know. I don't want zebra mussels in the lakes any more than anyone else does, but this seems wrong. And I would be more concerned about the canoe person unknowingly pulling zebra mussels in from 'Tonka than I would the guy using the boat launch. Plus, this seems like a lot to spend on a couple lakes that get very little boat traffic; on any given day, there can't be more than a dozen boats launched on Calhoun or Harriet, since you can only use electric motors.
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| This is the tip of the iceberg, take a look around at the homes on these lakes you fish at. Do you think you have a prayer of keeping access if these folks want to lobby the state and federal governments to change a sentence in the law or maybe a word or 2 and you'll be fishing if and when they want you too. Some of these people are concerned for their lakes health for sure but many want to keep you out or limit your access to when they will allow you to fish. They have found a great tool, invasive species.
We need fisherman in the legislature, not pseudo anglers or hunters that sometimes fish we need fisherman. Its time to buck up and support some friends of fish and Muskies, these guys need funds so send what you can. $50.00 is the magic number but anything will help them. http://www.peterperovich.org/ http://perovichforsenate.org/
Edited by Muskiefool 6/23/2012 5:14 PM
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| I forgot to address the Republican Democrat issue, it doesn't matter!!!!!! we have few if any anglers. These guys donate time money and a huge amount of their lives for BASS and helping Minnesota Anglers. Its time to step up fisherman.
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Posts: 719
| Re: Minnehaha creek, There is significant flow when the dam opens so I'm sure Zebes will/have spread into the creek.
I'll confess ignorance in knowing where it goes re: city lakes etc. |
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| Bturg,
Thanks for replying. I just think if their main objective is keeping invasives out they should be spending money elsewhere. JMO. I'll be crafting a letter to the park board committee. This definitely smells like Shorewood and there are quite a few metro lake associations that have failed in their attempts to do this in the past ten years.
Ryan Connelly |
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| The President of the Park board ommision is John Erwin. [email protected]. His number is 612 230-6443 x 7 and it rolls right to his cell phone. I spoke with him about this and told him what a half baked policy this is. We need to unify and make our voices heard. This will do absolutely NOTHING to prevent invasve species and is a waste of our taxpayor money. In saddition, it is denying our rights to public water. |
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Posts: 578
Location: WI | "We're in a unique position that we might be able to protect our lakes longer."
This was the most telling quote from that article. Acknowledges that they are attempting to merely delay the inevitable and all it will cost is taxpayer's money and access to a public resource. Certainly seems like a dangerous step. What happens when these lakes get zebra mussels? Will the gates come down? Doubtful. Will lake associations looking to do the same on "their" lake acknowledge it is not a solution? Even more doubtful. As someone who started out muskie fishing using a small raft out on Cedar when I lived in SLP, I will certainly be contacting Mr. Erwin. |
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Posts: 47
| Just sleep in your boat. Those lakes turn on at night. |
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| The full parkboard meets every other Wednesday.These meetings are open to the public . My good friend was the past commissioner of the parkboard. She told me that being in person at these meetings holds MAJOR weight. She also said to make sure that emails and phone were kept to the facts.
The current president is a scientist at the U. He can be swayed with logic.
I will be trying hard to be at the meeting this Wednesday.
Joe |
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Posts: 47
| Was wondering where are the meetings are located and what time. Here is our greatest opportunity to have our voices heard. Let's overwhelm them at the public meetings. Complaining on the forum board will no longer solve the issue of limiting access. How about the morning the shut down times start we overwhelm them with boats at the launch and protest on the water. Everyone fish within the sailboats. Power by numbers.
By the way I did see a guy sleeping on Harriet a couple years ago next to Nessy in the milfoil. Canoe was tied up to a wood man made raft. As I was casting bucktails at the raft I saw a gentleman stir in a sleeping bag. He also had a cooler and grill on the raft. So if you get trapped on the lake and forgot the bolt cutters, hunker down in the milfoil. The park and rec won't do anything. |
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| Here is what I sent and the response I got. Do they think an unlocked chain is going to stop people from entering without an inspector present?
Do they really not know what the ploicy will be after Sept. 30th?
Mr. Sdano:
Thank you for your comments. I have forwarded them to the Superintendent and the Board of Commissioners.
While I an unable answer all of your questions, I can tell you that boats may leave the lakes at any time without penalty. The public launches will be marked as closed for launching boats with a chain that departing boaters can remove and replace. Other information may be found on the AIS Frequently Asked Questions Sheet on the Park Board’s website.
Respectfully,
-Robin Smothers
Robin Smothers
Minneapolis Park & Recreation Board
612-230-6410
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Smothers, Robin
Subject: LIMITING LAKE ACCESS
Hello Robin,
I am sorry to that you have been put in a position by the City Council to have to respond to/defend their emergency action to restrict lake access. I was hoping that you could explain what mechanism will be put in place to allow boaters to leave lakes between the hours of 10:00 am - 5:00 pm on Monday through Thursday and after the hour of 9:00 pm on every day of the week. Surely the city council in its' infinite wisdom considered the legality of the restricted access and the potential problem of, for lack of a better term, holding people hostage on the lakes until 5:00 pm or overnight until 6:00 am the following morning. I am also curious as to the exact ownership status of these public landings. It is my understanding that if any state or federal dollars are used to maintain and or develop these landings that the city has no legal grounds to restrict access.
I eagerly await your response to these important questions.
Thank You
David J. Sdano
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| Question for Uptown??
Is the Park Board bound to enforce the nonsensical resolution passed by the City Council? Are they seperate entities? Shouldn't we be going to the city council meeteings or is it to late for that?
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Posts: 79
| This is absolutely ridiculous, and everyone knows it. The problem is not enough people will get involved to stop this and the rights we all lose one year at a time. We, as citizens have become content, and our priorities are all mixed up, but we have no problem voicing our opinions through social media or with buddies. I am as guilty as alot of other people, but I know I need to change my behavior before I look for others to do so. I will contact the city of Minneapolis and let them know how I feel.
"Sometimes losing is winning"
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Posts: 719
| Yep, step in and make some polite noise. Write an email, make a call, be heard. |
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Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | I have sent my email and made a phone call specifically mentioning the denial of access to the primary users without consultation with the DNR, who has used public money to stock all these lakes specifically for sport fishing as well as research for quite sometime. While I do believe the MPRB effort is entirely misguided and contains massive oversights as canoes and kayaks retain unrestricted access and can just as easily transport invasives, I am not ultimately too worried about this stopping me from fishing when I want to. The access restrictions are not a MN state law and will not be enforced by the DNR. The fines posted on the press announcement by the MPRB are the DNR fines for transport of AIS and are in place regardless of the access changes. They are not the fines you would be subject to for launching your boat during closed launch hours. Assuming of course you are not doing so while transporting AIS. If the MPRB cannot afford to have their trained inspectors at the lakes full time during the parks hours of operation how are they going to afford to enforce the access restrictions? The chain across the access is going to be a chain on a hook. When I want to fish I will be dropping it like I own the place, plain and simple.
This is from the MPRB FAQ document regarding this matter.
"What happens if boaters use the boat launch when no inspectors are on duty?
Boaters who launch boats and watercraft into the lakes when no inspectors are on duty may be subject to a citation from the Minneapolis Park Police. Additionally, Park Police officers are authorized to write the same criminal and civil citations and warnings for aquatic invasive species violations as DNR conservation officers. Boaters may remove their boats and watercraft at any time."
Essentially you will be breaking a park rule, not a state law. So if a park cop happens to be waiting at the access while you are trying to launch outside of allowed hours they "may" give you a ticket. Or if you ask them politley, they may help you check your boat for AIS before you launch, who knows. If they are not waiting there for you, who is going to give you a ticket? A trail cam? The head of the Yacht Club? The guys renting canoes? Good luck with that MPRB. I have a very hard time believing it is realistic MPRB would even be able to enforce this rule without any opposition. With significant written and verbal opposition I doubt they will continue to try. Tell them we support any attempts to stop the spread of AIS when done logically and this is simply not a good plan for a variety of reasons. |
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| Thanks for the info jfreborg.
I hadn't realized they were disquising the fines as to appear seperate from the MN DNR AIS fines. Very sneaky. I can't wait for my first conversation with Minneapolis' finest when I too drop the access chain like I own it and launch my rig right into the milfoil invested waters of the chain of lakes. |
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Posts: 3157
| the next MPL's city council meeting is JulY 11th and is open to the public a number of muskie guuys are showing up and I know there will be a request to get on the agenda that night,, |
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| Showing up in meetings and engaging in discussion is a smart manner to go. If you start breaking the rules and ignoring city regulations, you could see more enforcement and more strict regulation. It also makes muskie fishermen in general look bad if the rules are ignored. BR |
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Posts: 24
Location: Mpls., MN. | As a fisherman that fishes these city lakes 5+ times a week is sad to hear this loss of use. Nobody has talked about Oct. and Nov. boat access this worries me and as I was told Sail boats have to be off the lake for the season around Oct. 15th. Cedar Lake has about a dozen homes with lake shore and docks on it. there is a easement in front of there property next to shore thats owned by the city of Mpls. The Queen of England owns one of the homes. Cedar boat access has been closed to public for years. the official hours for boating on the city lakes are 6:00am - 12:00am but no one I know has been given a ticket. I've talked to my fellow city lakes buddies and all are sad to hear that days when you want to get out for a couple hours you might not be able to. This might force one to go to Tonka and pay gas to move the boat instead cheap Elec. power. Larry Peterson |
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Posts: 719
| One angle to potentially discuss or bring up:
Lifeguards vs ramp guards....where should the funding go. There was a drowning recently at an un-staffed beach. One of the reasons quoted was a lack of applicants for the jobs...in the private sector you would likely raise the pay structure to make the position more attractive if there were not enough applications for a key position.
Why spend the money to guard a ramp vs guarding the lives of young swimmers. If the funds are there to staff gates they could be used more wisely perhaps ?
Edited by bturg 6/27/2012 11:09 PM
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Location: Minneapolis | Who's enforcing this law (giving tickets) mpls park police or DNR? |
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| bturg - 6/27/2012 11:03 PM
One angle to potentially discuss or bring up:
Lifeguards vs ramp guards....where should the funding go. There was a drowning recently at an un-staffed beach. One of the reasons quoted was a lack of applicants for the jobs...in the private sector you would likely raise the pay structure to make the position more attractive if there were not enough applications for a key position.
Why spend the money to guard a ramp vs guarding the lives of young swimmers. If the funds are there to staff gates they could be used more wisely perhaps ?
Perhaps the added revenue from the tickets will enable them to hire more lifeguards. BR |
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| BenR Did you read jfreborg's post at all?
The words may be subject to a citation are more than just a little important. It doesn't say WILL be given a citation and for what launching a boat. The fines are the same as for transporting AIS meaning that if joe blow at the yacht club sees someone launching a pristine boat and trailer with no visible AIS attached fines won't be imposed. The idea of imposing restrictions on trailered boats and not kayaks, canoes, sail boards and the like is laughable and has zero chance of holding up to and legal challenge. |
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Posts: 321
| guest - 6/28/2012 12:40 PM
BenR Did you read jfreborg's post at all?
The words may be subject to a citation are more than just a little important. It doesn't say WILL be given a citation and for what launching a boat. The fines are the same as for transporting AIS meaning that if joe blow at the yacht club sees someone launching a pristine boat and trailer with no visible AIS attached fines won't be imposed. The idea of imposing restrictions on trailered boats and not kayaks, canoes, sail boards and the like is laughable and has zero chance of holding up to and legal challenge.
I am not sure that is the case at all. I don't think it is laughable at all and on what basis due you claim it will not stand up to a legal challenge? There is no doubt cities are short on revenue and parking tickets are a good source for extra. H
Edited by Homer 6/28/2012 12:56 PM
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Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | Just to be clear, I don't want anyone to go out and break any rules. You're all big boys everyone exercise your judgement. This will clearly be a park rule. It will clearly NOT be a state law. Me previously stating I will fish when I want is because I am ok with breaking a park rule. If you have ever fished any of the lakes that will be affected by the launch closures before 6am or after 10pm at anytime in the past you too have broken a park rule! Park's closed then Jack! This situation is no different, it involves accessing the resource outside of approved hours. That's it, the AIS portion is simply the ideal the park board has tethered their wagons too in an effort to give the rule meaning so it isn't perceived as entirely pointless. That's just politics. The MN DNR will not be enforcing the launch closures, they would however be enforcing any rules pertaining to transportation of AIS, as always. This has nothing to do with the DNR as of now. The Minneapolis parks police may be issuing tickets to those who chose to lauch their boats when the launch is closed. Which translates to: If a park policeman witnesses you launch your boat when the launch is closed and chooses to issue you a ticket then you will get one. If there is no one there to witness you launch your boat it is highly unlikely you will receive a ticket. Everyone is correct that the city as well as the state is short on revenue. What you may not be considering is that it takes money to pay wages to ensure enforcement of the rules and issuance of tickets. Money they likely do not have. If they had the money they would just pay for a full time inspector and TRULY protect the lakes without any closures. Since the parkboard clearly cannot afford to staff the launches with a full time AIS inspector they need to rely on the Minneapolis parks police to sit in wait at the launches in anticipation of the opportunity to write a ticket to someone trying to launch during closed hours. Anyone who thinks the city is going to pay 4 or more uniformed park policemen/women to just sit at these launches during closed hours to ensure the rules are enforced is smoking the good stuff, cause its not gonna happen. It may happen initally, but as time passes and if people don't continually get tickets, then rules are adhered too and minimal or no ticket revenue is generated they will realize it costs more money to keep an idle body at a closed launch than the tickets generate in revenue. Then it will go to a rotation or being unmanned all together. If they continue to pay uniforms to sit on their thumbs at closed launches waiting to write tickets it's all the more reason to be vocal about the waste of your tax dollar!! Moral of the story, if you launch your boat when the launch is closed don't get caught. I wrote an email last week to the parks board and copied the MN DNR fisheries as well and have yet to hear back and I know why. Because the park board can't answer the questions I asked and not sound like a bunch of morons. They set themselves up to fail with this plan as is. I am the son of a 28 year career lawman who finished his long career in law enforcement as a conservation officer in Northern, MN. I have more respect for the law than most. This is not a law, it's a park rule. It's a short sighted, unenforceable rule denying access on a discriminatory basis to resources stocked for sport fishing and research with public money. Step up and take it to em, hold people accountable and make them answer your questions. As far as the rule goes, if you choose to break it you better be financially and mentally prepared to deal with the consequences and do it with class. No disrespect to anyone who adheres to all rules presented to them in life, but think of what your life might be like if everyone chose to adhere to rules drafted by idiots? Sorry for the long winded rant. Said my final bit, I think it's great to read all the different viewpoints about this and know that people care. |
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Posts: 3157
| how many have you guys have actually dealt with MPLs 'PARK' cops,,,Im not talking about regular mpls cops but PARK police,,,,Park police WILL ticket you if they see any chance those people must be in a negative work environment,,,they will smash $800 molded side windows of SUV's if someone leaves a dog in a vehicle,,,I DO understand smashing a window to let the dog out to avoid heat stress or the potential but it dosent make sense to smash a moulded side window and then have the dog crawl through jagged sharp broken glass when it would be easier and safer to break a door window and open the door to let the dog out,,in short they do it because they can,,,,subject to citation??? If they can they will!!!
Edited by happy hooker 6/28/2012 5:11 PM
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Posts: 719
| There are a lot of good points made here so far, stay on task, get the word out, ask questions and view it as a serious issue. Sarcasm and bickering here has no positive effect. I talked with Jeremy last week and he makes some very valid points above and has made strides to be heard. I know Brad (hooker) will also be a strong logical force to be heard at the meetings.
Even if you don't fish the lakes make an effort to write and be heard...create a little volume as the things accepted and established at this location are likely to filter out to others...squash the bug before it lays eggs. |
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Posts: 548
Location: MN | I just ran across an 'inspector' last weekend taking my boat out of the water. He asked about live wells, pointed out stuff on the trailer. He told me he can only inform me of the laws. This was not in the city though.
Nick |
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | Well, here it starts for the rest of the state. I am sure those rich people who live on Melissa "really" check their boats over when launching.....
http://www.startribune.com/local/160909885.html |
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Posts: 8840
| Maybe this is a stupid question...
Wouldn't it make much more sense and be much more effective to patrol the lakes where invasives are present and make sure people are cleaning their boats and emptying their livewells as they leave? Instead of worring about invasives finding their way into all the uninfested lakes, why not take steps to make sure they don't leave the infested lakes to begin with?? |
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Limiting YOUR Access!!!!!!