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Posts: 259
Location: Madison, WI | Hi guys,
Was just looking at the other thread about early July LOTW tactics and it got me thinking (because I'm headed up for a split trip between Minaki and LOTW beginning July 9).
Will it be too early to throw bigger stuff? My personal gut feeling is no, but I wanted some feedback. I just ordered a new 11 inch Curly Sue (which is much bigger than 11 inches BTW), and I'm wondering if that would be appropriate for an early to mid July trip?
At what point in the season do you guys start throwing the bigger stuff (Pounder size baits, etc)
Just curious. Thanks in advance for any feedback!
"Jackpot" John Schroeder |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Medford, WI | John,
Start chucking and let the fish tell you what they want. We've had years where bigger was better early in the year and just the opposite as well. The 11" curly sue is a great bait at all times of the year.
Good luck - I'll be up there a little after you so you'll have to let me know how the bite it.
-Jake Bucki
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Posts: 303
Location: WI | I had a low 30 incher crush a pounder last saturday..... Pounders may not be the best pattern, but that one fish didn't mind the size. |
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Posts: 785
| If your goal is to not miss out on any 34"ers than you may want to reconsider but 40"+ fish that time of year (and already as we talk) have no problem eating the big stuff, as menioned if it's completely not working change up but otherwise I'd go for it. |
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Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | I mainly fish a MN metro lake. I moved two fish on 6 inch soft tail glide baits on opener... Since then, the only fish I have moved were on DBL 13's. after getting a follow I tried down sizing to 10s, then 8s and nothing. went back to 13's and a few casts later... follow.... Missed a few strikes on them as well... So I would say no. I am usually a "down size in spring" kind of guy to... not this year however.
One of my buddies had a missed strike on a storm flat stick, would not call it a small bait, but not big either. I say fish whatever you feel most confident fishing with, and what is best in your opinion for the situation... |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Nope! The LOTWs fish like big lures at all times! Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 87
| big fish eat big things no matter what time of year. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | On Memorial weekend a young guy using live bait caught a 32" Pike that had some really big and nasty fresh bite marks. Figured we should be using bigger baits after that. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | I've always felt that to use small lures in the early season was pretty much a result of walleye and crappie fisherman catching muskies before the season opens. People think that if they are catching them the fish must like small lures. In reality the size of the available forage is the largest it will be all year in the spring as the young of the year haven't hatched yet. I have serious doubts that any muskie swimming around looking for something to eat will say, "nope I'm not going to eat that one it's too big". Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 8824
| The short answer? NO! Big muskies eat big fish, bigger than any of our lures. |
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Posts: 422
| Not too early at all....Last week caught a 36" pike on a mag dawg and a 4lb largemouth on a 10" monster red october tube. I agree with above, start chuckin and let the fish tell you what they want. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion |
Giant Lures catch all kinds of fish.... Period.
Jerome |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I will say that Big Muskies wants Big Baits sometimes but not all the time. I think alot has to do with one's ego, if you have a Big EGO then you want to cast Big Baits all the time.  |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I actually have a pattern that early in the year (early no longer applies now that it is mid June) the fish prefer 10" Jakes/Warners over a DDD or similar smaller crank. After a few weeks then they start showing preference for smaller cranks. Go figure. |
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Posts: 582
| i think its more about speed than it is about lure size early in the season. Water temps and fish activity out weigh lure size. i have caught fish early on large and small baits. .i just don't burn any lures early. It's almost like you need to dangle the carrot right in front of them and they don't care what size it is just make sure it's in the strike zone and moving at a slower pace. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | all size baits work at all times... everyday is different....muskies don't read magazines or m1st..they eat what they want when they want to eat...if it's a 20" pike, guess what... it's food!!!....our baits in terms of the fish they can and do eat are actually all "small" for the most part... always keep an open mind to what does or will work and you'll catch more fish in the long run.
i have to challenge and laugh when i hear guys make sweeping statements like never/always etc....
Edited by BNelson 6/14/2012 7:27 AM
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | <p>We really didnt have a winter here in Pa and the ski's were hitting 8-10" jerks/gliders in january all the way up till now. Also had many follows on double 10's in febuary so size doesnt matter much...If there hungry they will eat </p><p> So like everyone else has said throw them and let the fish tell you what they want.. Good Luck show some pics...</p>
Edited by pamuskyhunter 6/14/2012 7:29 AM
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Are baits like Curly Sue's too big for a July LOTW trip? No
Next question...are big rubber baits a necessity on LOTW, or even a top 3 bait that should see a lot of water time? Pretty darn debatable.
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Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | As depth out weighs speed, speed out weighs size.
Size is a factor or indicator of activity level, active muskie or pike, (fish with larger mouths) will be more inclined to hit a larger lure or bait given a side by side choice. The less active Muskie will take the smaller lure or bait given the choice
Jackson you are correct! |
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Posts: 8824
| When I was a kid fishing back in the 70's, this old timer (LOL, he was probably 40) took a liking to me, shared all sorts of fishing wisdom with me. One of the things he said that I will always remember went something like this:
"if a fish can fit in another fishes mouth, that's where it'll wind up."
Look at some of what's been found in the stomach contents of harvested fish. I think we'd be successful with lures that are even larger than what we use now, except that we'd be unable to cast them for any length of time. Muskies are going to eat what they can catch. Put a lure in front of them, and stop worrying so much about which one and what size and what color. |
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Posts: 480
| From my experience, I have 2 windows to catch giant fish, early in the season just after spawn and late in the season just before freeze up. The tankers that I am after are the most vulnerable in these periods. I'm just trying to provide them with a good meal. The only egomaniacs I run into brag about how many small fish they saw. |
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| Have to agree......guys bragging about moving 20 fish a day... catching none....lol....the smallest bait in my regular arsenal is 11 inches...my newest prize is a hawg wobbler imitation made from 2 inch pvc pipe and is 15 inches... look out big girl.... |
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| Bragging is what I just read...two posts loaded with it. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Where are the bragging posts, get deleted? |
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Posts: 286
Location: VA | Small baits are for Bass. Leave those at home. |
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Posts: 1168
| Mullhead - 6/14/2012 11:26 PM
Small baits are for Bass. Leave those at home.
Ken O'Brien disagrees. |
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Posts: 1220
| Gregg Thomas has an article in Musky Hunter this month that says exactly what I think, but naturally better and more accurately. Or, if you don't subscribe, you can read the Book of Ecclesiastes, Ch 1, Vs 1: :To everything there is a season and a time under heaven for tossing nearly every bait that you own, especially if what you are tossing is not working." (or...it says something to that effect) |
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Posts: 567
| Ego has nothing to do with throwing big baits in my boat, I throw what I choose and migrate from that as the fish tell me what they prefer, and some days that's exactly what I don't have. Some people may half to brag about throwing big baits, and then there are tons who cry over it. Yes, I prefer it, year around, and there's nothing I like more than fishing behind the guys throwing hellhounds, phantoms, and regular bulldawgs. For me, I choose to chuck pounders, two pounders, 15" cranks and gliders in that situation not because my "ego" wants too, but because its different than what the fish constantly see. I'm not saying the others don't catch fish, but the way I see it, I don't just eat turkey on thanksgiving day, so where written is the rule that big Muskies only take big baits in the fall? Everyone just seems to assume it. Assumption is the mother of all $#&% UPS. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | there are plenty of times and days in the fall they prefer small suckers/lures over big ones..if we have 3 suckers out and 2 are over 15" and one is 12" and that keeps getting hit but the big ones get ignored we end up switching to smaller suckers/lures...... every day of the entire season is different..from spring to fall one day Pounders might get the hits, next day could be spring dawgs. mix it up..keep an open mind....muskies are predictably unpredictable. |
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Posts: 286
Location: VA |
Mullhead - 6/14/2012 11:26 PM
Small baits are for Bass. Leave those at home.
ulbian - 6/15/2012 8:28 AM
Ken O'Brien disagrees.
Anyone can a catch big musky once. The key is being a repeat that success. Wonder which lure has caught more 54" fish? Pounder Dawg or a MX6 Muskie Train. I'll throw the pounder.
Edited by Mullhead 6/15/2012 11:00 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | Mullhead...that mentality will cost you fish in the long run... both can and do catch 54" inchers the key is to figure out and use what they want that minute of that day....imo. |
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Posts: 567
| Mullhead - 6/15/2012 10:53 AM
Mullhead - 6/14/2012 11:26 PM
Small baits are for Bass. Leave those at home.
ulbian - 6/15/2012 8:28 AM
Ken O'Brien disagrees.
Anyone can a catch big musky once. The key is being a repeat that success. Wonder which lure has caught more 54" fish? Pounder Dawg or a MX6 Muskie Train. I'll throw the pounder.
Forgive me for asking but who is ken o'brien? Guess I'm just a moron. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Like I said BIG EGO = BIG BAITS LOL LOL LOL |
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Posts: 567
| PIKEMASTER - 6/15/2012 11:12 AM
Like I said BIG EGO = BIG BAITS LOL LOL LOL
Then fish hard, stay thirsty, be humble, throw cute little lures! There may be a pike first, I'm not sure......never searched it. |
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Posts: 286
Location: VA | Fished that river for years for smallies. Only can think of a handful of over 40" on bass gear. Cranks Buzzbaits Spinnerbaits Jerkbaits etc. We have one river in my area to fish. Yes, I throw 6" lokes and Double 8's spinners. But I catch a lot more and bigger fish on Double 10's 12's and large swimbaits. For me me its Quality over Quantity. Same as the Bass game. You want to catch 20 dinks or 5 that weigh 25lbs.
Pike Master its not EGO. Its convenience in the lures I choose to throw. To each his own.
Edited by Mullhead 6/15/2012 11:33 AM
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | There is a time to throw BIG BAITS and there is a time to downsize, don't let your ego stop you from casting small baits. BIG BAITS will not always catch BIG FISH. |
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Posts: 286
Location: VA | Understand that. But all on my fish over 50" have come off of 10"s, 12"s, Pounders and Gliders over 10". We have a good summer nite bite on 6" muskellunches stalkers , smaller type cranks and 1oz jigs. Several fish in a night but very few over 45".
Back to topic its never to soon to throw large baits. IMO.
Convenience is key in any type of fishing.
Tight Lines
Edited by Mullhead 6/15/2012 11:47 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | mullhead, what if you could catch 10 25 lbers by actually using your brain and figuring out the times they aren't hitting pounders you might just be able to get them to hit something else....? ....hmmmm ever think of that...????? yah probably not. |
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Posts: 286
Location: VA | Bnelson
Fishing in Virginia is a little different than up north we have different patterns. We don't freeze up and we don't have a season. Open water year round. Lots of weeds very shallow clear water and current. We have boated 10 over 25 lbs this year. Most of which came off of 10" jakes 10" gliders 10"or 14" tubes and double 10"s. Anyways I do throw small lures and produce fish off of them. OOo.. and I haven't caught a musky on a pounder since March but I used my brain and caught it on another large lure. Never to early to throw large lures as the man was asking.
Edited by Mullhead 6/15/2012 12:02 PM
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Posts: 567
| BNelson - 6/15/2012 11:45 AM
mullhead, what if you could catch 10 25 lbers by actually using your brain and figuring out the times they aren't hitting pounders you might just be able to get them to hit something else....? ....hmmmm ever think of that...????? yah probably not.
Bnelson, you sir, are an idiot. I am not a coward and don't need to log off to say it. You miss the entire point and always needlessly run your mouth. What does throwing small lures have to do with using your brain??? Any idiot, can throw lures big or small. Why would you brag or comment against a man's theory that he, personally, has done overall better on larger lures? I have never caught a 25lb fish and wandered if it would have hit something else. You make no sense, at least to me. I don't care, and I'm certain Mullhead doesn't either~ what you throw. But definitely use all your brain power to think what you're last fish may have bit, instead of what your next fish will bite. Gooday sir! |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | 2 lb. Dawgs... Mepps #5's... throw what you want. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer. |
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Posts: 567
| PSYS - 6/15/2012 12:29 PM
2 lb. Dawgs... Mepps #5's... throw what you want. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer.
Exactly. Well said. |
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Posts: 1220
| I just fished my sixth musky tournament this year without cashing a check. While you could say (maybe should say) I don't know what size bait to throw.......Well, I clearly can't be accused of having an ego!!! Woe is me...woe is me... |
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| BNelson - 6/15/2012 11:45 AM
mullhead, what if you could catch 10 25 lbers by actually using your brain and figuring out the times they aren't hitting pounders you might just be able to get them to hit something else....? ....hmmmm ever think of that...????? yah probably not.
Internet muscles as work, pathetic |
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Posts: 259
Location: Madison, WI | "Forgive me for asking but who is ken o'brien? Guess I'm just a moron."... newmuskyz
....
Ken Obrien is the guy who caught a musky reported to be 65 lbs (the Canadian record), back in 1988 or 89, somewhere around there.
If memory serves me, he was trolling for walleye with a size 9 rapala, and caught the accidental musky. I believe it was Georgian Bay area IIRC.
"Jackpot" John Schroeder
Edited by jackpotjohnny48 6/15/2012 2:19 PM
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Posts: 259
Location: Madison, WI | Here's a pic... (if this works)
Attachments
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 obrienmuskythumb.jpg (9KB - 178 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Very interesting topic. One I have taken some time to actually run experiments. I have tested big versus small and different profiles and have concluded that there are regions where big baits dont do very well. Other areas where certain profiles or shapes dont do real well. Lake Hudson In Lower Michigan just doesnt give up fish to big baits. If you dont believe me go there throw your pounders and two pounders and double tens till you are blue in the face. You wont get bit .No one does. This lake is kind of strange as little Manns MINUS 1'S , 205 CRANES , 305 cranes and small bucktails with small profiles all put fish in the boats. It has a good trolling bite but again nothing over 6 inches until late fall when 9 and 10 inch lures will get bit. The casting bite never seems to give up any big bait fish. I attribute this to very small forage through out the lake. I got 48 inch fatty there last Saturday on a 6 inch Stubby Slasher. I casted big lures all day with nothing ,not even a follow. Put on the 6 inch jointed crank and 15 minutes later a 48 inch fish.
Lake Hudson however is not Lake of the Woods. I think Doug Johnson nailed it when he said LOW fish always like big baits. Many southern lakes are small Shad based and tend to be more of a small bait bite. My lures sales reflect this. I see lots of little shads in 4 and 5 inch going to Ohio and Indiana while 10 to 15 inch cranks seem to go to Canada and Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan.
So what I think is there are some lakes where small baits are the ticket most of the time. There are some lakes where most anything will work. There are some lakes where it seems that Big Baits get all the big fish. Even Lake St. Clair has shown me a tendency to boat bigger fish on baits 6 inches and up versus 6 inches and down. Look at the Muskies inc Mens masters leader right now. He has 92 fish and a 34 inch average. He is using lots of Tuff Shads and other smaller baits. The numbers would go down and fish size would go up if he increased his lure size just a couple of inches as we did in 2006 averaging only three fish per day but 41 inch average size. Troll double tens out there in July and you wont catch many small fish at all. Nothing but hogs. But even there it seems that no one starts using say Nils masters in 10 inch until Fall. I would say it depends on the water you are on. Mike
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| in some lake 6 inch lure are useless all year long! |
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Location: Apollo, PA | I agree with Kingfisher Mike.
hahahahha that was easy
Edited by Pikiespawn 6/15/2012 5:45 PM
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Location: neenah, wisconsin | all i know is i wish i would have never given matt(newmuskyz) and robert(mullhead) my email or cell phone because i get sick of all the big fish picks they send me it makes me sick and now im to the point of jealousy because they catch alot of really nice fish and they all come on big baits exclusively ,..i love throwing big baits all year round over suspended water or deep edges and if it costs me fish so be it but its something i really enjoy doing and i remember a couple years ago i sold tim shmitz a boat load of 2lb bulldogs and in our discussion he told me he starts the season with a 14" jake and grows from there i wonder how many minnesota monsters hes caught ...my point is if ya have a big set of nads and can handle throwing the big stuff give it a try hell i give it a few hours then shut er down to something smaller like shadzilla for a while...but i dont think theres a bad time to try...i love big baits and wish i didnt because i would save alot of money buying little stuff..that said ive caught my share trolling little 5" bakers also ....do what ya enjoy and theres no guideline to being the greatest fishernman especially on mf we already know mr. nelson where u r on the depth charts....listening to people belittle others especially great guys who wanna help just gets old..hell when i started my box was a few lil eagles,buchertail 700 mogombo,6 and 7"cranes shallow and deep,
now i rarely throw anything that small the sport has grown and so should the mind to possibilities ..do what ya enjoy doing ....bushy
Edited by muskie54956 6/16/2012 9:33 AM
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Some of the guys in the back of my boat last year on LOTW who were relegated to throwing smaller baits due to lack of equipment probably might have an opinion or two about LOTW Muskies ALWAYS liking big baits....There is no such thing as always and never.
there are quite a few baits that we now consider to be "small" that 10 years ago or so were staples and considered normal size baits...They caught fish back then and there's some days here and there where they will catch more fish now. Every year/day/spot is a different animal
Edited by Musky Brian 6/16/2012 11:25 AM
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