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Location: Green Bay, WI | Anyone here install a separate battery for their electronics? If so, how are you charging it while underway?
I am strongly considering installing an extra battery, and then installing an automatic charging relay like this product:
http://bluesea.com/products/7650
I will also install a 4-bank shore charger as well, but I want to isolate these new electronics from the start circuit of the Optimax. The Opti has a 60-amp alternator, so that should work out great, especially if I troll with it. The boat doesn't yet have a kicker installed, but the 9.9 ProKicker has a 6-amp alternator and a 15hp ProKicker has a 12-amp alternator. I would think either one of those be plenty to keep the starting and electronics batteries topped-off while the kicker is running, as I seriously doubt that the marine electronics will draw 6 amps while running.
There will be two HDS 8 units (0.7A each with backlight on; 0.4A with light off), an LSS-1 (0.75A), an LWX-1 XM weather module, and a radio. There might be a 12-volt adapter for a tablet running as well. But even with a liberal estimate for the tablet and the LWX-1 module at 0.5A each, that's still only about 3 amps of current being drawn. So as near as I can tell, the system won't discharge while the kicker is running. Of course, the 15 ProKicker would give me extra power on the troll--at a penalty of about 35-40 pounds, and an extra $3-400 or so on the purchase. But the extra 5hp might be very useful in the wind with a high profile, like while trolling with the canvas up. The 9.9 ProKicker was NOT enough to control my 1850 Tyee in the wind, but this new boat is about 500 pounds lighter.
TB | |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | With the 9.9 and 15 being basicly the same motor you might as well have the extra horsepower because there is no increase in weight. I cant see your electronics drawing enough to be an issue but if you wanted the extra capicity you could hook a second battery in parallel if you have space for it. You could even switch it so it was only in use if your main battery was drawn down. | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well the HDS Gen2 units require 10-17 volts DC, so the batteries could certainly be in series. However the purpose of installing the second battery, at least in my mind, was to eliminate the spikes that occur with starting--and (mainly) to avoid running the start battery down. I just thought it would be more desirable to have a "house" battery circuit to run the electronics, just like is done in an RV. That product I linked to above has a position on the switch whereby the batteries are combined, should the house battery be required to start the engine with a low/dead main starting battery. This is identical to what is done in an RV.
So I am pretty much convinced that I'll be installing a second 12v battery for the electronics. This will be wired essentially in parallel as you suggested, but isolated by the ACR device so as to prevent drawing both batteries down to a low-voltage condition. The ACR has a voltage sensor that will open the parallel circuit between the two batteries, should the voltage in either one fall below a prescribed level (less than 11.7v, as I recall).
So the device probably is worth the cost in that sense, especially since I'll probably be adding to the Lowrance network within the next year or so. That will only add to the current load in the system, so protecting from a low-voltage condition will be all the more important.
TB
EDIT: I do agree with your opinion on the 15hp kicker though Frank. I just can't see how it would be a bad thing to have 50% more power over the 9.9...especially given that it's only about $300 or so to do it. I'd never again do it that inexpensively.
Edited by tcbetka 4/14/2012 4:24 PM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I've run two HDS-8's and anything else other than trolling motor batteries on my starting battery for the last three seasons without a hiccup(knock on wood). The biggest key is getting the largest starting battery you can, you will be fine.
The only time I've seen the need to add an extra battery like what you're talking about is for tournament scenarios where guys are running pumps all day for bass and walleye tournaments, running up to four units, bilge pumps, Hydrowave and anything else they may have. Tubbing around that extra battery for your scenario I think is overkill but if it's a piece of mind, it won't hurt a thing. I would suggest trying it first with one battery and then add an extra if you want. Another reason I don't think you'll need it is because you plan to put a onboard charger on, if you plug it in each time when you get off the water, you shouldn't have any issue. | |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Never Series that would give you 24 volts ( your trolling motor probably needs 2 in series if it is 24 volt. )
I carry a set of booster cables in case I ever have to start off my trolling motor batteries I've never used them. I once started a 70 horse 2 stroke with my boot laces wrapped around the flywheel. I was surprised how easy it was the emergency cord was in a drawer in the cottage. | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Actually, I did that as well...carried a set of jumper cables. Except the one time I needed to use them, the trolling motor batteries were so weak at the end of the day, that they didn't turn the engine over anyway! I ended up putting the start battery in series with a trolling motor battery. I don't know for sure how many volts I had, but it was sure over 12--you should of heard that motor spin! It only turned over for a couple seconds, and the Honda started right up. I didn't have a kicker on that boat, and a Honda 200 is pretty big to try to rope-start... LOL. Anyway, it got us back to the landing and the engine was never the worse for wear.
I also see that the ProKicker units have a manual (rope) start on them, although I never used the one I had on my old boat. So basically THAT could very well be your jump-starter as well--as long as you connect the kicker's alternator to charge the start battery, it should get the big motor started again.
So then the only real reason a person would need a house battery is if you didn't want to have your electronics subjected to any voltage spikes induced by the start event. I know the guys on the Verado Owner's Club forum recommend that when you have a Verado (as they are ultra-sensitive to voltage, apparently), but I am not sure that's the case for the Optimax. I'll do some more research on this, because it would avoid some extra expense and complexity...if I didn't need it.
TB | |
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Location: 31 | Hey Tom,
I just run my electronics off of the 12 V trolling motor battery in the 36 V system, I also have a bunch of accessories in my boat (underwater light, downriggers, ect) run there too.
The difference maker for my boat is stealth 1, this little jewel of a device automatically switches from charging your main engine battery once fully charged, to the trolling motor batteries.
I've been using it for about five years, and can't imagine going on water without it now with my rig. Many times I get home from a weekend of trolling and casting and my trolling motor batts are almost fully charged. A lot of tournament bass guys like KVD use the technology too... I agree with TJ, you don't need that extra battery.
http://www.stealth1charging.com/Data.html | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Looks like that's just an ACR Jerry...and Automatic Charging Relay. It's basically the same thing as the item in the link I made in my first post. Looks pretty interesting though--I'll have to research it a bit. I wonder how much it would take me to wire that in, given that I'd have to fish the wires up to where the trolling motor batteries are located?
TB | |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Jerry do you not get interference on your electronics when the trolling motor is running | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Ah, I see...you can buy their AC and DC units, and screw them together. So you can then charge your batteries at home like a regular shore charger, or on the water with the motor. How much do those units cost? I haven't found that yet, although maybe you have to buy them from a dealer so they aren't listing the price on the website.
TB
EDIT: Just got off the phone with the fellow that *used* to be the rep for my area. He says to just call the factory now, as he isn't the rep anymore. But he actually liked the fourth battery idea--though he did tell me that Danny (at the factory) would be the guy to talk this over with. Ironically, he advised NOT to wire the electronics into the trolling motor battery circuits. He preferred the idea of the fourth battery for clean power for the electronics.
I'll see what Danny has to say on Monday though. Thanks for the tip Jerry!
Edited by tcbetka 4/14/2012 6:54 PM
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Location: 31 | horsehunter - 4/14/2012 6:26 PM
Jerry do you not get interference on your electronics when the trolling motor is running
I'm curious to find that out as well because I just hooked up 2 used HD 10s this way, and haven't fished with it yet.
I can tell you that I have done this in the past and it was not problem, that was 2 boats ago (over 10 years) and honestly can't remember if there was a little interference or nothing... either way I'm certain it was a non-issue or I would remember it.
If it is a problem with the new setup, there are battery isolators, or I could go back with a larger crank battery like TJ mentioned but I would prefer to grab the juice off the 36 V because I have the Steath and this suits my style of fishing best.
What I anticipate needing some help with is the best system to convert the 36 V system to 12 V so I'm not just pulling off of one battery, my thinking on this was first things first, get it set up and working okay, then look to improve.
Addendum:
Had a couple of phone calls and a PM on the stealth so for anyone else interested… The stealth system has been is in a word... fantastic! (I'm not a rep by the way)
First of all, when I purchased it originally I had a 24 V system (it was probably closer to 7-8 years ago?), then when I got this boat with 36 V, all I had to do was take a thing they call a "jumper" off and voilà it works perfectly with the 36V.
I do not have the piggyback charger, my old boat had an onboard charger and I don't think they had the piggyback available then, my new boat came with onboard chargers for both the 12 V and 36 V. Even though I came close to springing for the piggy back AC… at some point you have to stop spending for these cool upgrades.
The only problem I had was when I charged my trolling motor batteries with the 36 V onboard charger… I could feel my crank battery get warm and knew that was not a good thing so I just removed the positive lead to the crank battery for a while and then installed a flip circuit breaker (and a note to remember to flip it off) so no power can find its way back to the crank battery.
Typically I'm just plugging in the 12 V charger on the other side of the Stealth to charge/maintain all the batteries... it's pretty reassuring to just plug that in before a trip and know all 4 batteries are topped off.
When I troll and cast an equal amount, I never worry about charging my 36 V trolling motor batteries separately but obviously a lot depends on how much running and trolling you do versus casting whether the system is right for your application. Either way I guarantee you that at the end of a normal day there will be more juice left in your 24 or 36 V batteries, that means less recovery time which is better long-term for the batteries because they're not being drained and quickly recharged.
As Tom found out, the staff at Stealth is awesome if you have any questions ect… I'm pretty sure he said the cost for everything was about $600, I'm not sure how much just the Stealth charger without the AC is, but I suspect approximately half of that.
Edited by Jerry Newman 4/18/2012 12:49 PM
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Location: 31 | horsehunter - 4/14/2012 6:26 PM
Jerry do you not get interference on your electronics when the trolling motor is running
I'm happy to report no detectable interference on the electronics using the 12V from the 36V, the only unit I had any concern with was the front one while casting anyway obviously.
One of the reasons I ran it this way was I never have to worry about running down my crank battery, and with the stealth charger the 36V batterys get recharged by both motors after the crank battery is topped off. I also decided to run an on/off kill switch to the electronics... It's not only a 100% off situation, it's super convenient to just push one button at the helm and the entire electronic system is completely off.
One time I started to get up from the helm to shut off the front unit after casting and then I realized, just click the switch off and back on and turn the helm units back on. Yeah, kind of lazy... 
Edited by Jerry Newman 5/24/2012 9:49 PM
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Electronics battery