|
|
| http://www.startribune.com/local/west/147326045.html
Turns out the lake associations don't own the lakes. Trying to use the threat of zebra mussels to keep the commoners off "their" lakes. Better luck next time. | |
| | |
Location: Green Bay, WI | I can't really fault them for showing concern, but I'll agree that their intentions may have been a bit drastic. People do need to be responsible and vigilant against introducing that invasive species however. Maybe, if nothing else, this story will help raise awareness to that effect...
TB | |
| | |
Posts: 568
Location: deephaven mn | i understand your feelings about public access versus lake association
and a agree. i also think that protecting waters from contamination is a neccesary and highly important right now. i do think that the lake association is trying to do the right thing and i support them. maybe not driving to a remote location for inspection
but having a hot water high pressure boat cleaning facility at each lake seems sensable to me. that being said who pays for it? the dnr is trying to stop the spread of zebras (invasive species) but their approach may be to passive. again it's lack of money. we all need to be awair and do our part and keep our boats clean and our lakes free of contamination.
Edited by kap 4/14/2012 7:54 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Having a dictatorship telling us "commoner's" where we( as taxpayers and holders of licenses) to fish is just pure Socialism at it's best
Public Waters means, Free for ALL,....... to fish,..and enjoy as much as the KING does.
Just because you live on a lake, and belong to an ASSociation doesn't mean you should be able to dictate to those who don't live on a lake.
Clean your boat,drain your live well and TRY!!! not to spread any invasives,....!!!!!!!!! But,....... don't try to regulate where I can fish !! That just isn't AMERICAN !
G-Rome | |
| | |
Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | The lake associations are all focused on the boaters and specifically fishermen, but forget that there are other ways to spread zebra mussels.
- Shore fishermen can also spread zebra larva when transporting bait buckets friom lake to lake - or anything wet for that matter.
- Pleasure boaters including jet-skies can carry zebra larva.
- Infected boat lifts and docks have been responsible for infecting several MN lakes.
- It is known that waterfowl can transport milfoil between lakes. How else can the presence of milfoil in ponds be explained? In the same way, zebras and their larva could theorectically be transported by waterfowl from lake to lake.
In order to stop the spread of zebras, the following would have to happen:
1. Close all boat ramps.
2. Prevent transport of all boat lifts and docks between lakes.
3. Close all public fishing docks and shore fishing access.
4. Prevent waterfowl, such as ducks, geese and herons, from flying between lakes. (Good luck with that.)
Its hard to say, but it looks like virtually all MN lakes will eventually be infested with zebras and all we can do is try slow the spread down. | |
| | |
| Lets not forget that the pontoons, kayaks, and canoes used strictly for pleasure and leisure can transport them just as easily!!! | |
| | |
Posts: 432
Location: mpls | I agree
. I get the intentions but the means that the lake association proposed were drastic. Actually just the opposite of socialism. As public owners of navigatable waters- that is socialism. What the lake association is proposing is elitism. Privatization isn't always a good thing.
Joe | |
| | |
Posts: 3491
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
What scares me here are terms being thrown around that lakes associations being "elitist" , "dictating" or "owning" the lake I feel are pretty strong terms being used for intentions that have a strong foundation. It almost seems to give off a feeling of "us" against "them" so to speak and I don't think this is what it is all about. It is about protecting our waters and doing what we can to keep our waters clear of invasives. How we treat one another is a different story, which in and of itself is a battle both ways.
No doubt that is a harder thing to do these days, but as the son of a lakeshore owner who owns the property for an access to a lake, I can tell you through my own experiences that there are many people out there who have come to use the lake and don't follow guidelines to keep invasives out of any water they boat in. I get the opportunity to see it both ways as when I am visiting my father's cabin, I also help regulate who goes in and who goes out. I have seen many "guests" to waters who don't give a rats behind about what happens to the water and they carry an elitist attitude for being there as if it is their "right" to abuse the resource, and that is not right either, and can definitely "tick" some people off..most notably the lakes associations.
That is not to say some lakes associations can be that way as well...but much of that is due to the hierarchy of who is leading the association, or better stated....who is in the control positions of the association. Get the right people in the right positions and things can be smooth as silk. Get the wrong people in with an agenda and who are not all that "people friendly" and it can get ugly quick. I've seen that take place too within the association my father is a part of, and due to those politics, the membership has dwindled.
It was not all that long ago that the access on my father's land was open for all, but seeing garbage left at the landing, arguments about the conditions (it is sand that occasionally has road run off creating gullies into the water), lack of following the guidelines we set up for use, parking rigs in another owner's yard, or worst of all , parking in the access so nobody could use it, etc. The access is still there, and since it is private, we ended up closing it to public boaters We grew tired of dealing with the "crap" that came with keeping the access open to all, so it is now gated and only open to those who own lakeshore property.
What I feel this all comes down to is one word: RESPECT!! Respect the waters you fish on in all of the ways you can, and Respect the lakes associations for wanting to protect and take care of the waters they enjoy as well. Respect those coming to enjoy the lake from association members will also lead to more cooperation from the boating public and overall a great experience by all!!
We have to work together to keep invasives out, and we always must be mindful of the intent and keep our own thoughts in check if we run into people who come off as elitist...that road goes both ways.
Off the soapbox now...
Steve
| |
| | |
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Herb_b - 4/16/2012 9:44 AM
The lake associations are all focused on the boaters and specifically fishermen, but forget that there are other ways to spread zebra mussels.
- Shore fishermen can also spread zebra larva when transporting bait buckets friom lake to lake - or anything wet for that matter.
- Pleasure boaters including jet-skies can carry zebra larva.
- Infected boat lifts and docks have been responsible for infecting several MN lakes.
- It is known that waterfowl can transport milfoil between lakes. How else can the presence of milfoil in ponds be explained? In the same way, zebras and their larva could theorectically be transported by waterfowl from lake to lake.
In order to stop the spread of zebras, the following would have to happen:
1. Close all boat ramps.
2. Prevent transport of all boat lifts and docks between lakes.
3. Close all public fishing docks and shore fishing access.
4. Prevent waterfowl, such as ducks, geese and herons, from flying between lakes. (Good luck with that.)
Its hard to say, but it looks like virtually all MN lakes will eventually be infested with zebras and all we can do is try slow the spread down.
This is a defeated attitude.
First off, theoretically sure waterfowl could transport zebra/quagga mussels. But the likelihood of this is pretty slim. Odds are probably close to those of winning that mega millions jackpot. The waterfowl would need to bring in enough veligers/liter of water to have them reproduce and infest the water, or carry a piece of vegetation with adults attached. Milfoil readily colonizes with just a small fragment. It takes at least 2 adult mussels to colonize a water.
The Southern Nevada Water Authority's Raw water pond of Lake Mead saw a density of 110 veligers/liter. Lake Erie has seen veliger densities as high as 250/L. With that said, no duck or waterfowl will ever carry a full liter of water on them. So, we can assume that the number of veligers a duck is carrying is very low. Duck feathers repel water, also. In order for a mussel colony to establish via veligers, the veligers need to land fairly close together (usually within an inch or so from each other, one male and one female) in order to reproduce. The waters in Minnesota and Wisconsin likely don't have the veliger densities that Mead or Erie have. 40% of Mead's macroinvertibrate population is made up of quagga mussels. So in order to make this theoretical idea to work we'd need to get one male and one female veliger on to a duck, or multiple ducks, have the veliger survive the flight to its next water, drop off the duck(s) and land within an inch of a veliger of an opposite sex. This is incredibly unlikely to happen, and if infestation of waters relied solely on waterfowl, the zebra and quagga mussel would not be in the US.
Boats, especially those with ballast tanks are one of the biggest risks. They can haul a lot of water from lake to lake. Some ballast tanks on ski boats can hold upwards of 60-70 gallons of water. Remember those veliger densities? If a boat fills his ballast, pulls out, then launches on another water and dumps the ballast, he could easily transport a significant amount of veligers. It would likely take waterfowl years to transport that many.
Boats can be decontaminated fairly easily. 140 degree water kills veligers almost instantly and cooks live adults in a hurry. Use of high powered pressure washers (6000 psi) will remove attached mussels from the hulls of boats, jet skis, and boat lifts. It doesn't take all that long to decontaminate a boat either.
Bait buckets are another vector of transport. Luckily out here live minnows are illegal so we don't deal much with bait buckets. But simply outlawing the placing of minnow buckets in lakes would solve this problem fairly easy. If I recall correctly there is some sort of law in place with suckers due to the concern of VHS?
The bottom line is education and being proactive can play a huge roll. You don't need to shutdown waterbodies out of fear of mussel transport. But being proactive and implementing a plan to fight against invasive species would go a long way. Utah's program was modeled after Minnesota's. While we don't have the water that Minnesota does, we have had great success. In 2008, we had a handful plankton samples come back positive for veligers. Since 2008 all those positive waters have not tested positive again. We've washed high risk boats, and simply talked to low risk boats. The education has been paying off and many boaters are now taking some ownership of their waters. Having the attitude of "they will be here eventually" will only make them spread to your waters faster. Each boater can make a difference and help slow the spread. It isn't hard.
As for the original topic, I felt when it first came out that it was vastly overreaching. Get some people on the ground with some hot water pressure washers at the ramps. Emphasize "Clean, Drain, Dry" and explain how it is done. Education, not restriction is the key here. | |
| | |
Posts: 8797
| I can't see why blaming the lake associations for protecting the waters they have a vested interest in preserving is going to get you anywhere. I watched the lake I grew up on fall victim to a Zebra Mussel infestation, and it wasn't pretty. The beaches and sandy bays where we used to swim are now covered in shells. You can no longer walk barefoot in the water. Our LA is currently in the process of erradicating an outcrop of curly leaf pondweed. This year will be the second application of a chemical agent, and the entire LA has offered to volunteer in the efforts to hand-pull in the areas where it is possible to do so. We could have just looked atthe situation and said "Ahh, screw it, invasives are a fact of life..." and gone on with our lives, but whether its rusties, milfoil, zebra mussels, SOMEBODY has to make an effort to preserve the lakes. The people who just drop their boat in for the day sure don't care. They can find another lake. The people who have spend hundreds of thousands of dollars buying homes and property on those lakes can't just pick up and move as easily. It's easy to see why those folks get a little overzealous in their efforts. But let's not chastise them for trying to do the right thing. As Mike points out above, migratory waterfowl CAN spread invasives, but the likelyhood is very slim. Bait buckets, ballast, and livewells, however, pose a much greater threat. And until you educate people, and they actually care about what they might be doing to this or that lake, they're not going to make the effort themselves. Even when they KNOW, many still don't care. Those of you who fish lakes with milfoil may not realize what that lake once looked like. Those of you who fish lakes with rusties may not realize what those lakes were like before the rusties were there. The same goes for zebra mussels. You might not know, you might not care. But when you spend a few hundred thousand to get on a lake that has not been compromised, you certainly WILL care, and taking measures to make sure that lake stays that way will not seem like a waste of time at all. Sure, it might be an inconvenience for jet skiers or recreational oaters, and even anglers. But the potential outcome of doing nothing is far worse. | |
| | |
Posts: 716
| Reality: all these metro lake associations mentioned have been trying to close ramps and limit traffic for many many years. Zebs just gave them more reason and a rallying cause....same agenda different excuse. | |
| | |
| +1 Bturg.
If these programs were implemented 30 years ago, we might have had a chance. Right now you are throwing $$$ down the drain.
| |
| | |
Posts: 432
Location: mpls | +2
The lake associations that are behind this have been at it for decades. Pre invasives, and these associations ARE elitist. | |
| | |
Posts: 568
Location: WI | "The DNR also argued that it does not have legal authority to require boaters to travel to an off-lake inspection site.
The Legislature is considering proposals that would modify state law to allow mandatory remote inspection stations, if certain criteria are met.
Judge Kanning noted that legislative discussion in his ruling, but said that under current law, the court has no authority to order the DNR to begin remote inspections."
Hope the idiots in St. Paul don't pass any of those proposals. Seems like it would go against the "small government" philosophy of the current governing majority.
| |
| | |
| And witht the DNR already strapped for cash, where would the funding come from? | |
| |
|
Freedom rules the day