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Posts: 127
Location: SUN PRAIRIE WI | What grade of gas do you use in your boats regular,medium grade or premeium or does it not really matter |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
If your motor calls for 87 octane, I would say run that...even if it has ethanol in it. Many will argue that any sort of ethanol in the gas will ruin fuel lines, gum up your engine, and cause various problems. I have run ethanol blended fuels in almost every gas engine I own and have yet to encounter any of the problems others claim. If your engine is an older model (somewhere around early 90's vintage or older) then it is a good idea to get fuel lines replaced as they may not be alcohol resistant and can degrade.
The big thing with ethanol blended fuels is they will tend to attract moisture, so a fuel/water separator is a good investment, but if you are using the gas and not letting the boat sit for weeks at a time, you will be fine. If the boat sits for long periods of time with unstabilized fuel in it (as with any engine that sits for long periods of time) you run the risk of the fuel gumming the engine....no matter what grade you run. This is where many will argue is the issue and blame the fuel rather than their own lack of preventative maintenance.
Now...that doesn't mean running a higher grade of gas is bad...many will say (and I would tend to agree with this) is if you can find non-oxygenated fuel (no alcohol content, usually 91 octane at BP stations where available) you may see a smoother running engine and a slight increase in performance as compared to an oxygenated fuel of the same grade. You would obtain Smoother running engine due to a more stable fuel combustion (this would be true of any higher grade gasoline, blended or not), and with the lack of alcohol in it, may give a slight increase in power as compared to an oxygenated fuel of the same, or even higher octane.
I ran 89 or higher octane in my former yamaha 90hp 2 stroke, but that was strictly because that engine had a higher performance head on it which would have increased the potential for detonation if I ran 87 octane.
If you use your boat consistently, the increase in cost to run 91 non oxygenated might not be worth it in the pocketbook if the 87 octane does the job well.
Steve
Edited by VMS 3/18/2012 3:01 PM
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Posts: 582
| I will always run NON Ethanol gas if i can find it.. regardless of how often you run it.. you never know, sometimes that crap will be in your tank when you go to winterize your boat. If you do have to run Ethanol gas, use some star-tron or stabil ethonal treatment. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Whatever the manual calls for, except when it will sit for a long time, then I put in gas with no alcohol. Alcohol is crap. I have had the insides of my fuel lines disintegrate on older motors, with chunks breaking off and covering the inlet to the carbs. The older lines were not designed to handle that crap and they won't. Newer motors seem to be a different story. I haven't had any problems with my 2008 or 2010 motors yet, but I run stabilizer whenever I fill with crap gas and have to leave the boat sit for weeks. Just don't let the crap gas sit there unless the tank is full or you are using it fast. I've seen jars of crap gas my marine dealer pulled out of people's boats after as little as two weeks and it had seperated into layers of different colors and viscosities. Suck the high water content fraction into your injectors and you are asking for big trouble according to factory advice. |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi again,
If it is crap gas, then why do we see so many cars running on it throughout the united states with very very little issue? Your outboard is really no different than your car engine.
Again, it goes to proper maintenance and care of your engine. Granted, an outboard can sit for times much longer than your car/truck, which is why it is recommended to stabilize the fuel if it will sit for longer periods. THAT should happen with ANY gas.
It should also be noted that buying gas at a dock may carry more potential of having more water that has gotten in due to a wetter environment to start out with, and that fuel may have a tendency to sit for longer periods of time because it is not used anywhere near as quickly as fuel from a filling station in town. Here again, it goes to proper maintenance...even by the marina. It begs a question of whether or not they are using the fuel quickly and are they filtering it as well before it goes into a boat.
The stuff is not crap...it works just fine.
Steve
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Posts: 752
| I almost exclusively run non-oxygenated gas and as long as I have done this I have had no fuel related issues. This is why I stick with it. Properly blended gas will work in most newer motors just fine but the issue is you are at the mercy of it being properly blended. As gas tanks sit idle the alcohol and gas start to separate. If you buy gas in the boonies at odd times or even in a metro area form a slow station there is a higher probability of this happening and that's when you see issues. For me it’s not worth the risk. If I lived in Florida and could fish every day I may be more cavalier about it but the 100-150 days out of the potential 210 I get to spend on the water each year is gold to me and spending a little more on gas is cheap insurance. |
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Posts: 189
Location: West Bend, WI | I prefer alcohol in me, not my gas... |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Crap gas is crap by any name you want to call it. When you pay more for gas that gives you less mpg, rots hoses, seperates, and sucks water from the air like a hungry mosquito on your arm, it's crap! You can have it for your motors if you'd like it. But for me, I'll stay as far away from it as I can if possible. There is a big difference between an automobile fuel system which is more or less closed to the outside air and a boat or small engine system that has continually open vents. Sorry to disagree with you but I do. |
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Location: 31 | Almost-B-Good - 3/19/2012 10:27 AM Sorry to disagree with you but I do.
As much as I always tend to agree with just about anything that Steve says, everyone is entitled to their own opinion... there's no need to be sorry that you disagree.
For me personally, I think the big difference is that gas has a shelf life and when it can potentially sit in my boat for weeks (or months in the winter), I always opt for the highest grade, and without ethanol whenever possible. I even have the Shell gas stations I like to use in my GPS, and religiously use a rather expensive additive... Yamaha ring free.
I know I'm over killing this gas deal, but these outboard motors are just too expensive for me to take any chances with something that is as controllable as a few extra bucks for gas, and an additive that specifically formulated for my motors. |
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| Read that you shouldn't run premium gas (even with ethanol in 87-grade) in yamaha four-strokes as well as ring-free in every tank. Any truth to these? Any reason for these?
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Location: Contrarian Island | use what the manual suggests but I would recommend running the Stabil marine formula in it as well... |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
In any fuel injected engine, car or otherwise, going to premium gas (unless specified to do so per manufacture instructions) does nothing more than burn a more expensive fuel. So...you are essentially throwing money away by burning anything of higher grade, whether it contains any percent of alcohol or not.
As for ring-free, I would guess that due to a difference in how it burns and by design is made to clean the combustion chamber, if memory serves me could set up a lean condition in your engine. A lean condition in your combustion chamber is not good, and will eventually ruin your motor.
Four stroke motors run quite cleanly, so ring free or any other fuel system cleaner is not needed all the time. Stabil on the other hand....if the boat sits for a time would be a good investment to hopefully prevent any gumming of jets carbed or EFI.
As far as disagreeing, absolutely no reason to apologize. Everyone has their own opinion and that is a good thing. No matter what gas you use, what you call it, etc., it still all boils down to one thing...good preventative maintenance of your engine will save many dollars. THAT I feel we can all agree on.
Steve |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Sorry VMS, but run non-ethanol gas no matter what. I had seals rot out on my opti and to make a long story short it started on fire. I've been running non-ox gas ever since and it runs WAAAAAYYYY better! |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Almost-B-Good - 3/19/2012 10:27 AM
There is a big difference between an automobile fuel system which is more or less closed to the outside air and a boat or small engine system that has continually open vents.
I will definitely disagree with you here. No engine that burns fuel is a closed system to the outside air....it has to have air in order to create the correct mixture with fuel for good combustion. Your car/truck, etc has an air filter which cleans the air as it is drawn into the system to mix with the fuel. It goes into an injection system, either mechanically (carb) or through EFI, then to a combustion chamber, is compressed and ignited, then is expelled through an exhaust manifold and out to the open air. Your car engine has much more items on it to control for optimum performance such as an egr system to burn unspent fuel, etc. vaccum hoses to run other items, etc, but no matter what, they all do the same thing...draw air in, combine it with fuel, combust it, and expell it. No simpler than that. That is basic engine mechanics 101....
Steve
Edited by VMS 3/19/2012 2:05 PM
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Posts: 121
Location: Plymouth IA | I love my boat so i feel the premium grade gas, non-alcohol is worth it. As it is an oldie so it never saw alcohol in the gas when it was new so it gets non-alcohol gas now. It also gets Stabil every tank. The motor on the new boat 1985 model turns 27 years old this year and the old boat 1955 has original motor that still runs great at 55+ years old. You cannot beat caring for your motors. I know a bit about small engines and just do not think alcohol gas is a good idea, but i am an old guy.  |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | Another thing to consider is almost all fuel tanks in boats are plastic compared to metal in autos.Take a 5 gallon plastic can and a 5 gallon metal can with the same fuel in it and over 4 months(providing there both sealed properly),the fuel in the plastic will break down as to where the fuel in the metal will still be sufficient.Been tested and proven. |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | That would be true of any gas, blended or not...yes?
Misterperch,
No doubt the older engines were really built well. We still have a 1973 Johnson 20 hp that to this day has only been brought in to replace the points and a carb adjustment once in it's lifetime, and that was back in 1984. The carb has never been rebuilt....no replaced gaskets, no float bowl...nothing. I changed out the fuel line back around 1993 or so, and it hasn't skipped a beat...Run 87 blended through it with no issue. With that motor, when it would be sitting for some time would have the gas run out of it so the system had no fuel in it, which was practiced from day 1. It may not have been what some consider the right way to do things, but it has not failed yet, and I practice this with my 8hp 4 stroke which I can easily unhook the tank hose. Started first pull yesterday for the season. On my big motors I have run over the past seasons (1999 johnson 50, 2005 Yamaha 90 and currently a 2004 johnson 90) I have left the fuel in the lines (stabilized) and all have had no hiccups at all either...and that was with blended fuel as well.
Those old motors are gems, though!! There are times I miss my 88 Johnson 15 and no longer have use for the 73 20hp but really miss hearing that one start up...both reliable as all get out, and much of that is due to as you say...caring for the motor. It goes a long way!!
Steve
Edited by VMS 3/19/2012 6:50 PM
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | I have 2000 hours on my Yamaha 4 stroke and had fuel injector issues at the beginning of 2011. I started running ethanol free gas and ring free in my tank and it has been trouble free since. Before I was getting the injectors cleaned almost once a week. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | kevin cochran - 3/19/2012 7:07 PM
I have 2000 hours on my Yamaha 4 stroke and had fuel injector issues at the beginning of 2011. I started running ethanol free gas and ring free in my tank and it has been trouble free since. Before I was getting the injectors cleaned almost once a week.
Kevin, How did you clean the injectors almost once a week? Just curious.
Jerome |
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | how can you find out if local stations sell good gas without ethinol in it. i have always used the citgo in northwebster and have never had a problem on my 138 opti but the pumps are not markedc at all about the ethil |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | They are fairly easy to clean and my mechanic up here can clean them in a matter of minutes. I couldnt even get up on plane. Also installed a large filter to catch all the junk in the gas. I am sure that helped as well. |
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Location: 31 | Your best chance at finding a gas station with ethanol free premium is with shell, I think around town here their premium contains ethanol, but I see it here and there while traveling to the various locations I fish, I just save those destinations on my GPS and top the boat off there on the way out.
The specs say to should run 89 minimum octane with a Yamaha 4 stroke 250 to get full performance out of the engine. I understand it would run okay on the 89 or even the 87, but if pushed hard at full throttle it could potentially knock or ping with the 87, there is a sensor that retards spark advance to reduce performance if detected so I wouldn't hesitate running 87 if it was the only option available.
As far as running premium with the Yamaha ring free, I researched it pretty heavily when I first bought the rig and there was nothing Yamaha has written in that regard. If there is I would certainly want to see that, same with running lean. I would be interested in anything else you care to add Steve because I certainly value your opinion. I fully understand that four strokes are clean running to begin with, but you would think that Yamaha would've said something if that was a potential problem. I agree that it's over kill to run it all the time, what can I say... 
BTW, I've actually had people tell me that the Yamaha additive is just some gimmicky deal for Yamaha to make a few extra bucks. I honestly find it hard to believe they would put their name on something that was not extensively tested and found to be beneficial for their motors. Is it worth the extra money, I guess it is to me to have the peace of mind that I'm doing all I can.
Edited by Jerry Newman 3/19/2012 9:48 PM
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Posts: 121
Location: Plymouth IA | Steve
the 1955 i have is a Johnson 25hp. The only problem i ever had with it was the magnets in the flywheel lost some energy over time, found a flywheel off a newer higher HP motor that fit. The new Motor is 90 Hp Merc mariner. I am sure many have had good luck with ethanol, and the Stabil plus other TLC has more to do with my Motors health. That said i will still be the old guy i am and run non-ethanol, keep some Perch for the frying pan, and point out the error of your ways if you think your not going to release that big Muskie. 
Not that anyone on this board would ever think of killing a muskie. I have had some persuasive discussions with folks on Clear Lake IA and in The Alexandria MN area that think their lack of Walleye catch is Muskies fault. |
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Location: 31 | Here's a good link I found about ring free. http://www.thehulltruth.com/archive/t-74696.html |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Jerry,
To be honest, I have never seen any article on how ring free could be harmful, which is why I wagered a guess as to what it could potentially be....I have nothing to back that on as it was more or less a thought as it pertained to the previous poster's question.
If it's working for you, I would say no need to change it.
Steve |
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Posts: 319
Location: Tomahawk,Wis | Jerry I also ran ring free and stabil in my boat. Had a 2004 Yamaha 200hp 2-stroke
When I took it in the mechanic told me to keep doing what I was doing.
It ran clean and had great power. The gas had ethanol in it and I had no problems when I sold it in 2011.
Wally |
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| archerynut36 - 3/19/2012 8:12 PM
how can you find out if local stations sell good gas without ethinol in it. i have always used the citgo in northwebster and have never had a problem on my 138 opti but the pumps are not markedc at all about the ethil
pure-gas.org |
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Location: 31 | 620vsrox - 3/21/2012 9:37 PM
archerynut36 - 3/19/2012 8:12 PM
how can you find out if local stations sell good gas without ethinol in it. i have always used the citgo in northwebster and have never had a problem on my 138 opti but the pumps are not markedc at all about the ethil
pure-gas.org
There are more stations available than on this site, but agree it would be a good place to start.
http://www.historicvehicle.org/Commissions/Commissions/Legislative/... |
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Which grade of gas