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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | Thinking about making a website designing a couple baits and getting a tax id. Waddya think? |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | You certainly have the talent kodiak! Go for it buddy. |
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Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | You have what it take, Give her hell my friend. |
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Posts: 223
Location: Victoria,MN | And I thought you enjoyed fishing?
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | Ohh ya. |
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Posts: 203
Location: Minnesota | Go for it... and I'll be more than happy to be one of those testers for you!!! |
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Posts: 278
Location: WV | T-Bone - 3/15/2012 8:25 PM
And I thought you enjoyed fishing?
+1... I kinda remember that fishing thing.
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Paperwork is a pain and all the taxes, you will make more $ doing repaints. The comment about time to fish, right on. Good by fishing time. If you want to do it to do it go for it. |
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | i am talking limited basis like treats does it..not a full blown legit making 100's of lures...small batch like good whiskey lol
i just have so many ideas and want 100% creative control on something just to see what i can come up with. I have plenty of resources to help me along the way and have had excellent tutoring under t-bone and various others on the art of baitbuilding. One thing i want to make clear is i will NOT undermine the people to brought me up and taught me the ins and outs.
Edited by kodiak 3/16/2012 7:48 AM
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Posts: 910
Location: South-Central VA | Yep, what Roger said!!!
Kodiak, I must admit, I'm doing what you described: small batches and when they're gone, they're gone. I don't build lures or rods for the $$$, I do it because I enjoy it. If it gets to be a job, I'll quit. I won't allow it to cut into my family time or my fishing time!
jeremy
Edited by bowhunter29 3/16/2012 7:52 AM
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| Go for it! Make sure all your moves are well calculated and you don’t risk too much. There are a lot of guys who get into it but then soon get out of it, myself included, twice already lol, but here I am again. If you have a passion for making baits and you enjoy it as a hobby, you’ll stick with it in some way. If you’re in it for the money, you may realize there’s a lot of work to do for your return. I fish as much as I always have, which is never enough, but there are advantages to that when you do have that tax I.D thing you mentioned ;) The paperwork is a PIA like Roger said and hopefully you can find yourself a nice “Girl Friday”. My partner Jessica has a knack for that stuff and I’m really lucky because I hate paperwork. I thought it was cute that I call her Girl Friday, but she prefers “Vice President Global Operations and Director of Administration” Good luck and have fun with it! |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | I make small batches ( coined the term small batch baits, actually) .
Don't be fooled. Your time fishing will still be cut down considerably. Also factor in paper work and audits . You WILL get an audit. Especially if you post on this site or MH. My last auditor( last fall) used printed post from both sites as "evidence". I came out fine, but it was still a 5 month long process that further degraded my time and added LOTS of stress.
I am not trying to scare you, just telling you the truth. I still love lure making, so it wasn't enough to stop me. If you are doing it for money- there isnt much. If you are doing it for the challenge- go for it
Make sure you are squeaky clean though:)
Good luck either way. If you want to talk about it in person, shoot me a pm
Joe
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | lol...i probally would come out ahead cause i have way more invested than gained...i havent made a dime.
yes taxes are a huge consideration i assume lots of small buisness fail due to not having the tax issues lined up beforehand....have to play by the rules.
Edited by kodiak 3/16/2012 10:13 AM
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| Not just income taxes and sales taxes...Can you say EXCISE TAXES? |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | All about excise tax. I have had two excise audits in 8 years.
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Location: Okoboji | uptown - 3/16/2012 12:14 PM
All about excise tax. I have had two excise audits in 8 years.
why are they after you so hard...no one i know has been audited,,including bait builders and buisnesses |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | I wish I knew. The first time, they ended owing me money. The second time was a wash.
That said, everyone that I know has had an excise audit. At least all of the established guys. Lots of fun 
Are you located in Mn? If so, you can pick my brain anytime.
Joe |
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Location: Okoboji | yeah i am in mn...what if you set aside money every sale, say 15%. |
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Location: Victoria,MN | kodiak - 3/16/2012 2:25 PM
yeah i am in mn...what if you set aside money every sale, say 15%.
It's not just the paying the money, it's all the paper work and record keeping.
My first "educational audit" was 3 years ago. I can't wait for the real thing! 
The next time you stop by I'll show you the info he gave me me at our 3 hour meeting. |
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Location: Okoboji | sounds like a wonderful time!! |
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Posts: 223
Location: Victoria,MN | yep, not that they are trying to be dh's but Uncle Sam wants the money. and actually very imformative but confusing as heck. I never forget at the end of the meeting I was filing out some paper work and one sheet read something to the effect of "Do you know of other companies that may not be paying FET" Yeah like 10 of them, not that I would rat anyone but....
Edited by T-Bone 3/16/2012 3:45 PM
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| You have a full time Job? and you want a second one? once you start making baits full time it becomes a job, you start to loose the fun in making baits trust me. |
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Posts: 223
Location: Victoria,MN | Part timer - 3/17/2012 6:35 AM
You have a full time Job? and you want a second one? once you start making baits full time it becomes a job, you start to loose the fun in making baits trust me.
I guess I wouldn't necessarily agree with this. I work full time and come home to work full time on baits. If you truly enjoy what you do its awesome. I guess it's not for everyone though. |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | If you do get audited: By law they have to disclose ( if you inquire via legal document) if someone "suggested" you as a FET avoider. I found out who "suggested" me the first time. I don't blame the guy, I am guessing that he sees me as competition and wanted to make sure things were. No love lost. It is business and to him it is his livelihood .
I do agree somewhat with the poster that said it will turn into job#2.
My suggestion is to not do or limit the amount of custom work that you do. You will just be adding more deadlines to your life. Make a batch and sell what you have. That is what I had to do to keep it enjoyable for myself.
Also, never forget why you do it- to catch more fish. Once you lose sight of that or start fishing less, ideas don't come as easily. At least on the bait designing side of things.
Just my 2c
Joe |
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Location: mpls |
Edited by uptown 3/17/2012 11:32 AM
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Location: Oregon | It is for sure a second job. The paper part of it is the worst, it seems to never end and they ding ya just enough to where it makes it hard for a small business to make it. Because I moved recently I had to obtain a new business license, $200, not a big deal for a bigger business but for a small business that's real money.
Keep a running spreadsheet of all expenses, paint, clearcoat. screws, wood, plastics, equipment maintenance (lure dryers, various tools), donated items, taxes, etc., and you will find the amount of money you take home is very small.
Like most others that have been doing this awhile, I do it because I enjoy it...........if you don't really have a passion for it, financially it makes it nearly impossible to justify.
Jed
Edited by RiverMan 3/17/2012 12:10 PM
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Posts: 556
| I have a good friend who builds baits on the side after his 8-5 job---While he has been somewhat successful in selling just about all he makes (shows, club memebers, on-line leads like ebay) he has said on more than 1 occassion that the small amout he really makes is making it difficult to really enjoy what he is doing. I think he longs for the days when he would make 40-50 baits over the winter and just sell the extra's he had. A second job !!! I know to me unless I really needed the extra CASH--it would not be worth it. WHEN I was 12 yrs old my Parents bought a RESORT on a lake in N. WI. My dads dream was to run it when he was to retire in 8 yrs---I remember going into the local lumber Co. with him to set up a business account for things we would need--Owner of the lumber yard asked him if he wanted to sell his FISHING Equipment---My dad said why would I do that--i plan on fishing all the time now that we will be living on the lake....Long story short----My DAD probably fished that lake 5 times over the 5 yrs he had the resort... Thats the truth---HE sold it because he realized he wanted to enjoy the lake and recreation it offered and didn't want to work everday in his free time.......To this day he will say its the best move he cvould have made---now at 85 he still fishes.......Just a fact-- when you love something and then try to make it a JOB--It changes your love and feeelings for it. |
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Location: Okoboji | so would i go under a sole proprietership if it is only me?
do i file for federal id first and then state?
basically i need to know what i need to do to open a online and small bait building biz. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | If you do an LLC it keeps your money separate from the company (to a certain extent) but still goes on your taxes. Then get federal tax number, then state sales tax number. Make sure there are no local numbers required (business permits). That's Wisconsin, Minnesota might be a little different but more than likely not. Do not forget insurance. |
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Location: Okoboji | what do i need insurance for? just asking |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Liability is the main one, it ends up being a whole package as you usually can not get just that. |
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| You don't need insurance. And a sole proprietorship will be just fine. If you get to the point that you are considering hiring employees or leasing office space, you can reorganize as an LLC and get insurance. No need for it before then. There's risk, sure, but there's risk when you get out of bed in the morning. |
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Posts: 184
| I highly recommend getting that DBA and tax ID- I got busted last summer and I fully blame myself but I know that it all came from posting on here. It was a long headache so be careful b/c some people do not have your best interests in mind. Its a cut throat business so just be warned. People think that your gonna sell more than them and take food off their table. Best luck and listen to Roger, he is pointing you in the right way, he's a good guy!
Edited by zach2626 3/31/2012 11:04 AM
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Location: South-Central VA | I'm with Zach! Do things right when you start and you won't have any worries.
I started out building rods and lures for myself. I soon had more and more friends asking for stuff. It got to the point where I thought that even if I don't want to pursue this as a source of income, I need to register as a business, get my licenses and EIN, and pay my taxes to make sure I'm covered. After I got my PA sales tax license and my EIN, I decided to pursue the 'business' end of things a bit more. I made sure I was legal with all papers and filings in place from the start and I don't regret it one bit. It can be a bit of a hassle to get everything done, but not as much of a hassle as being nailed for operating without a business license or not paying taxes.
I can honestly say that I genuinely like everyone that I've met in this business so far. No matter what your career, there will be cutthroat people that seek to do you harm. Some are very insecure and can't do without a little competition. As Zach found out, there are some guys out there that would be happy to turn you in if they think you're not operating legally. As long as you are doing everything you should, you don't have to worry about it. The cool things is, you can find out who turned you in!
jeremy
Edited by bowhunter29 3/31/2012 1:50 PM
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Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | having a good CPA will also be of help and he can keep track of everything and make sure your quarter taxes are paid on time. Paying quarterly is the best way to go |
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thinking of leaving the basement