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Posts: 18
| Hi everyone, I'm hoping you can give me some advice on four potential packages that I'm looking into. I recently moved out to Ottawa from British Columbia and had to sell my old boat before coming out. I'd like to find a boat that I can use for all types of presentations (trolling, downrigging, casting, back trolling, etc.) and for the diverse number of species out here, including Muskie. I was lucky enough to catch a 37 inch fish on my first trip on the Ottawa River (had great assistance from a guide!) and I can really see that becoming a passion for me. Anyway, here are the four options I'm considering:
1) Lund 1675 Pro Guide with a Merc 75hp 4 Stroke Big Tiller
2) Lund 1725 Pro Guide with a Merc 75hp 4 Stroke Big Tiller
3) Alumacraft 165 Navigator with a 75hp E-TEC tiller.
4) Alumacraft 165 Competitor with a 70hp Yamaha 4 Stroke tiller.
I think that the 1725 Pro Guide will "just" fit in my garage, hence the reason it's the only 17 footer on the list. The 175 Alumacrafts will be a few inches too long so they are out.
All four packages are within a $3,500 range, with the Competitor being the lowest, then the Navigator, then the 1625 and finally the 1725. The Navigator is a full $2,000 less than the 1675. All of the prices are pretty much for a base package without any options at this point. I don't suspect I'll add all that much except for a bow mount and vinyl flooring. I still have my Humminbird from my old boat that I'll install. I'm trying to keep it down to a "bare bones" type boat as I'm already at the upper limit of what I want to spend. I want a tiller primarily because of the extra room it affords in a boat this size and for maximum fishability. I'll be using the boat all over the place, including Georgian Bay and some of the other larger bodies of water on days it is reasonable to do so (I spent allot of time on some big water back in BC so I do know the limitations of a 16-17 footer).
Right now I'm sort of leaning towards the 165 Navigator/E-TEC combo. This is the engine I wanted for a number of reasons and I think this would likely be the best performing combo of the 4 that I'm considering. I like the Pro Guides but they are at least a couple grand more than the Alumacrafts and they have that 400lb Merc hanging off the back, which I'd like to avoid if I could. Swapping out the Merc for an E-TEC or Yamaha is going to add another 2K to those packages so doing that would really make them quite a bit more than the Alumacrafts.
I'm also not sure about how the two Alumacraft packages stack up. I like the slightly larger beam of the Navigator and I think the 75 E-TEC would be quite a bit stronger than the F70 on a "similar" hull just given the displacement advantage. I have nothing against the Yami (had an F50 on a previous boat and it was great), but on a boat these sizes, I'd like the get the most I could performance wise. I do like the VTS option on the Yamaha tiller though.
Do any of you have any of these packages or would you be able to share your thoughts or opinions? I've tried to do as much non biased research as I can and it sure seems like Alumacraft and Lund are close enough to each other that it could come down to dollars or pure personal preference. A couple grand is a fair amount to me right now and if I can swing the Alumacraft and get the engine I want for less, it just seems like the best option, unless there is something that REALLY makes the Lund stand out. Coming from BC where Alumacraft didn't really have a presence, I'm just not experienced with what they have to offer, their quality, etc. It seems great from everything I've read, but I thought I'd post this up and get some feedback.
Thanks in advance for any info you can share! | |
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| Sounds like you've done your homework and are approaching this with a good deal of thought put into it. I think you're already about where you need to be. If you want the ETec, go for the ETec, just make sure you've got a local dealer that can take care of you. All else being equal, dealer service is your tie-breaker.
Other than that, get the biggest motor and boat you can afford, and preferably, max out the hull for it's HP rating. You'll never be sorry you got "too much power" or "too much room." Not everyone needs a 20' boat with a 250, but more power and room on the boat of your choice is always a good choice. | |
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| You could also order a new Lund boat and trailer only and put an Etec on it if you wish.
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Posts: 18
| Thanks for the replies folks! I'm definitely going to max out the HP on whichever I choose. Mike, I had considered that but going that route would put me roughly $4K to $5K more (1625 vs 1725) than the Navigator with the E-TEC. It would appear that the Merc's are heavily discounted when you package them up with the Lund's, so to go with just the hull and then add a different make engine afterwards, you almost get hit twice (the base boat being more plus you loose out on the discounting for the engine). Because of that, if I went Lund, it would have to be with the Merc, which I think is a bit of a downgrade from the E-TEC in some respects.
I wish I were rich, LOL  | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | NMG - 12/25/2011 1:56 PM
Thanks for the replies folks! I'm definitely going to max out the HP on whichever I choose. Mike, I had considered that but going that route would put me roughly $4K to $5K more (1625 vs 1725) than the Navigator with the E-TEC. It would appear that the Merc's are heavily discounted when you package them up with the Lund's, so to go with just the hull and then add a different make engine afterwards, you almost get hit twice (the base boat being more plus you loose out on the discounting for the engine). Because of that, if I went Lund, it would have to be with the Merc, which I think is a bit of a downgrade from the E-TEC in some respects.
I wish I were rich, LOL :)
In what ways do you think the Merc is a downgrade?
The Merc fourstroke or the Optimax will get better fuel economy than the E-Tec. If you don't like the little extra weight of the 75 Merc Forstroke than I would suggest going to the 75 Mercury Optimax. All three motors are within 80lbs, the Fourstroke being 399. You'll get the best fuel economy, holeshot and for sure the best overall performance with that motor. It will or typically is the cheapest motor when you compare with any other brands. I'd certainly compare the Optimax and the E-Tec, thats more apples to apples than the 75 Fourstroke. Pair the Optimax with the big tiller handle and you've got an awesome setup.
Don't forget, Mercury has a much better dealer presence nation wide than Evinrude, something to keep in mind.
I wouldn't hesitate to own another Alumacreft, very good boat. I've never really ever heard of anyone having issues with one, very solid boat IMO. | |
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Posts: 18
| Thanks for the reply!
The weight was a biggie, especially being a tiller. I also hadn't planned on spending the extra to get the full hydraulic steering for the Merc, so I thought that handling the 400lb. motor vs the 320lb. E-TEC would be noticeable. I also really like the maintenance and "shop time" advantages of the E-TEC, especially the auto winterization feature. One thing I really didn't like about my previous boats (50 4 Stroke Yami and 135 Honda) was using up weekends getting them serviced and of course the costs associated with that. I think the E-TEC has advantages there.
I've also heard that the 75 E-TEC is quite strong, whereas I suspect the 75 Merc is REALLY detuned given that it shares the same platform as the 90 and 115. I imagine the internals are very robust with the Merc, but I'm not sure if the power to weight ratio is advantageous. I also suspect that the E-TEC could troll down slower by having the idle programmed down to the 600 RPM limit I believe it is.
When I looked at the relative light weight of the E-TEC and the other considerations, it just seemed to win out. I hadn't really considered an Opti to be honest, because I thought that the weight was close enough to the 4 Stroke Merc that I didn't think it was that much of a penalty to just go with the 4 at that point. I also hadn't really seen much info on the Opti's being a great choice for trolling, but I do plead ignorance on that one because like I said, I never really looked into them all that much. When it came to the DI engines, I thought that the E-TEC was just a better setup than the Opti for an "overall" choice.
So anyway, that was my reasoning for what it's worth. The weight and maintenance considerations were the two biggest reasons.
Edited by NMG 12/25/2011 4:15 PM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I understand the maintenance and winterization stuff. However, the Opti's aren't like the old EFI's, they don't require fogging. All I do to mine is stabilize the fuel, empty out the water seperator so it doesn't freeze and change the lower unit oil, basic procedures any motor requires.
It does sound like your pretty set with the E-Tec and that's ok, just wanted to inform you that the Optimax is another very good option, one you can't go wrong with. I wouldn't be to worried about power, I've driven console and tillers with the 75 Optimax, more than enough power. The Opti's will have better low end torque and gettyup than the Fourstroke also. The Fourstroke is definitley the weakest of the three engines. The Big Tiller handle does not include the hydraulic steering, just the handle. You can also get the rpm adjuster on it for that motor if my memory seves me right.
Here is a link to the Big Tiller handle:
http://www.mercurymarine.com/gauges-and-controls/steering-systems/b...
The Opti is worth a look at least, like I said, I'm betting it'll come in cheaper than any of the other motors. The Opti's have one of the best track records the last eight years or so, I don't think you'd be disappointed.
Edited by TJ DeVoe 12/25/2011 4:48 PM
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Posts: 18
| Cool, thanks for the info TJ. I'll definitely look into the pricing with the Opti and see where it all falls out. Never hurts to have another option . . . well check that . . . it may hurt my brain trying to process it all, LOL
Just curious if you troll with your Opti much and if so, how do you find it for that purpose?
Edited by NMG 12/25/2011 4:56 PM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I've not personally done any trolling with an Opti of this size but know numerous others who do. I know walleye guys who troll with the big V6 Opti's and do fine, obviously not as good as a kicker but it works. The lower hp Opti's will work much better, especially with the rpm adjuster. | |
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Posts: 743
| Just barely fit in the garage? Is that with a break away tongue? I would definately go for the 1725 Pro Guide with a 75 Mecr. opti if you don't do a lot of trolling /idling, and 4 stroke if you do. After having 3 alumacrafts I am a Lund fn now. | |
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Posts: 18
| Yeah, I have about 19 feet 3 inches of depth and with the tongue broken, I've been advised that the 1725 package is 19 feet 10 inches. It is a double garage with a double door and based on some rough drawings I put together, I think I would be able to back it in as far as possible and then angle it towards the front corner and store it diagonally and have a little room to spare. I would need to do some more detailed measurements of everything just to be sure, but I think it would work. We don't keep our vehicles in the garage so that's a non issue. Just need to make sure there is room for the boat and to get around it, etc.
I really do like the looks of the Pro Guides and while the extra 8 inches in length doesn't sound like much, it all helps, especially since it looks like almost all of that would be in the cockpit area. | |
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| Something to consider is the great interior layout of the Lund .Its big front central rod box is a big asset as well as the high quality interior finish. These boats are built like tanks. A huge plus is the protrack/sport track system on the gunwales. By adding a couple of Lunds downrigger brackets you can easily mount riggers or heavy duty downeast rod holders without ever drilling a single hole in the boat. I use these same brackets for my 2010 explorer. Very robust and clean looking. You can bolt quick release brackets from a company like Traxtech to the Lund downrigger brackets for easy removal of riggers or rod holders for versatility. You can also mount lighter duty holders such as Scotty's on Lunds plastic sport trak brackets on the interior of the gunwales.Very versatile and smart layout made with the angler in mind. The electronics console is sharp too! | |
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Posts: 18
| Hi Mike,
Yes, the ability to easily mount downriggers and rod holders is also a consideration for me because I do plan on hitting some bigger water for lake trout, trout and salmon. I know there are various brackets available that I could make work on all the boats, but I think I would be limited in what I could use on the Alumacraft and/or I'm not sure I would be happy with the results. I'd definitely like to keep the drilling and bolting to a minimum.
I thought about this a bunch last night and this morning and while I do like the price point of the Alumacrafts, I think that for my needs and wants the Pro Guide makes more sense, especially if I can go with the 1725 and pickup some length.
Something has to give given my budget. Either I go with the engine I want as the number one priority or the hull I want as the number one. My brain is telling me that the latter is likely going to be the far bigger deal once I have the boat and actually get out on the water. In many ways this is a simply ridiculous "problem" to have, LOL.
Thanks for the input!
Edited by NMG 12/26/2011 10:44 AM
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| You are welcome, and the 1725 is a great rig. I doubt that you will 2nd guess your choice once you are in it. Very versatile and as good on the big water as it is on smaller bodies.
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| BTW email me at [email protected] if you like. I can email you some pics of exactly how the Lund downrigger brackets with Traxtech quick realease mount look rigged on my 2010 explorer. The gunwales are identical to the gunwales on the pro guide series and the interior layout of the 2 models is almost identical as well. | |
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Posts: 18
| Awesome, e-mail sent! | |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
No matter what you choose, if you have the option to choose motors to some extent, get the largest displacement you can.
Being an Alumacraft fan (on my third one), I would tend to look at the navigator. I have the 165 navigator from the first year they started making the wide beam model and it is a great layout!! Easy to rig other items and run wire without any issues whatsoever. The one nice thing about the navigator tiller model is you can walk all the way around on the same level without having any trip hazard. The proguide doesn't seem to have much floor space on the lower level for the large tackle boxes, but that is a personal preference thing too. One thing I like about the navigator is pulling up to the pump to fill. Many of the stations around here have 2 sets of pumps on one lane, so you can pull up to the front pump to fill your truck, and the back pump is right where you need it to fill the boat...again, personal preference thing there.
Although the navigator does not have center-deck rod storage, you should be able to fit longer rods in the side lockers than what you can in the center rod locker of the proguide. I know the navigator went through some changes after the 2005 model at some point, and they now have rod tubes in the side lockers, but I would bet you can get close to an 8 foot rod in there.
Not all that different of boats for the most part....differences are minute really: 23 gallon tank in the navigator as compared to 19 in the pro-guide. Weight difference of only about 100 pounds give or take...
Really cannot go wrong with either boat. The one nice option you have with alumacraft is you can choose what motor you want to put on it without having to pay more. Lund...you can do it, but there is a cost benefit to staying with Brunswick products for rigging...not that having pre-rig is bad, it just limits your options.
Motor-wise, the optis had their problems when they started, but have not heard of any bad things as of late...kinks are worked out.... I don't know about gas mileage and such with those motors (nor the etecs) but either way you are getting one heck of a motor. Power to weight ratio will be better with the 2 stroke and the biggest displacement in the motor is really the best option you can go for. I found that out the hard way going with the smallest displacement engine on my alumacraft to start out with in a 90 yamaha 2 stroke...just repowered this past august with a Johnson 90hp and it is a world of difference.
I'd say navigator with E-tec... but that is me...
Steve | |
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Posts: 18
| Thanks for sharing your thoughts VMS. I've pretty much convinced myself to go the Pro Guide route, but if that doesn't work out then the Navigator is my #2 choice. It's nice to know that they are both highly thought of and that both makers have their supporters. I think that says allot for the quality of both brands. | |
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Posts: 128
| NMG - 12/25/2011 4:13 PM
I've also heard that the 75 E-TEC is quite strong, whereas I suspect the 75 Merc is REALLY detuned given that it shares the same platform as the 90 and 115. I imagine the internals are very robust with the Merc, but I'm not sure if the power to weight ratio is advantageous. I also suspect that the E-TEC could troll down slower by having the idle programmed down to the 600 RPM limit I believe it is.
If a motor is the detuned version of a family of motors that also has a much higher HP (like the Optimax 75HP) that is a GOOD THING.
You usually end up with a motor that has a higher displacement than the engines from other manufacturers that wring out all the motor has for 75HP.
More displacement=more low end grunt-what you want for a boat. | |
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Posts: 128
| I really want the 17' Pro Guide myself so that would get my vote. I'd also put a 75HP Optimax on it. Lighter, and a high displacement motor for a 75HP.
No 4 stroke maintenance which you mentioned you didn't like, and if you want more power apparently it's possible with a computer re-flash..(someone on here was having that done to their 75 opti) | |
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Posts: 18
| Since I see this string came back, I thought I'd post a quick update and let everyone know that I went with the Alumacraft 165 Competitor with the Yamaha F70 tiller.
I absolutely love the package! The boat is very well made, the F70 is easy to handle, it hops up on plane very quickly and tops out at 31-32 MPH with the 13 pitch 3 blade aluminum I'm running right now. It also trolls down to around 2.2 MPH going forward. The engine also just sips fuel.
I've had the boat out a handful of times now and I think it's just a great overall package. Easy to handle, lots of interior space, solid feel and handles water well. I did get a little wet this past weekend but that's because the wind was blowing some splash back into my face when I was running into the waves.
If anyone is in the market for a 16-17 foot tiller, I'd definitely recommend giving the Competitor a look. | |
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Posts: 18
| Since I see this string came back, I thought I'd post a quick update and let everyone know that I went with the Alumacraft 165 Competitor with the Yamaha F70 tiller.
I absolutely love the package! The boat is very well made, the F70 is easy to handle, it hops up on plane very quickly and tops out at 31-32 MPH with the 13 pitch 3 blade aluminum I'm running right now. It also trolls down to around 2.2 MPH going forward. The engine also just sips fuel.
I've had the boat out a handful of times now and I think it's just a great overall package. Easy to handle, lots of interior space, solid feel and handles water well. I did get a little wet this past weekend but that's because the wind was blowing some splash back into my face when I was running into the waves.
If anyone is in the market for a 16-17 foot tiller, I'd definitely recommend giving the Competitor a look. | |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | here is my thought no one can tell you what boat is right for you. only you know what lakes you fish and how you fish them.some people like merc next guy likes the e tec and then there me who is a yamaha guy. go look at the boats sit in them look them all over then take one out for a test run. i bought a new rig this year they took me out on the lake drove the boat look it over then bought one the next week. | |
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| You owe it to yourself to check out the G3 website to see if there is anything you like. Great boats. | |
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Posts: 373
Location: Maine Township, MN | I sure like my Alumacraft powerd by Yamaha. So quiet and she only sips the gas. | |
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Posts: 167
| lol do ur research on the bombadiers..................i would stay away...........mercs or the yamaha are about as good as u can get these days...............just speaking from experiance | |
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Need Advice on Boat Packages!!!