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| Interesting. Thoughts on this? Any updates anyone has heard?
http://www.idofishing.com/forum/showflat.php/Number/1067898/fpart/1...
CiscoKid
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Here's a news clip from the 6:00 news tonight.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/12/02/large-fish-kill-discovered...
Aaron |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | WOW ! That is really a Sad thing to see.... Maybe time to re-write some laws ? |
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Location: Kansas City BBQ Capitol of the world | In 2007 I went and fished Cass Lake. One night around sunset I was pitching some baits and all of a sudden I hear this guy say "Hey Dude" I turned around and seen an Indian in a canoe and I never even heard him come up on me, startled me really. He asked if I minded if he threw some nets down here. Being an out of Stater I thought to myself he was an Indian and was allowed to do that #*#*. I told him I didn't care and then he told me to come back at 0500 tomorrow and he would show me some fish!
I told a local guide about it that evening and he said told me that the Indians were allowed to do that but he felt it was bull#*#*. He told me he was gonna have hundreds of pounds of Walleye, Northerns and Muskie in that net by morning. I didn't like that but I guess I was thinking that was some sort of privilege the Indians had since the White man pretty much rapped them of everything and this was some sort of a small token.
The next year in 2008 I went fishing at Leech and in 2009 went back to Cass. I made a stop to go over to Birch Villa to talk to the owners and take a look at the beautiful 60" mount that Mark had caught and released on Cass. Marks wife was telling me that she was surprised that no one ever caught that fish again.
My memory flashed back to the Indian in the canoe and I told her my story and that their fish may have been netted. She told me with no enthusiasm, almost heart broken that yeah, they are allowed to do that. In that somber moment standing there looking at the first 60 inch fish I had ever seen it really peeed me off. I don't know if it was netted, but the idea that it may have been resonated around the room.
After seeing these pictures and to echo Top H20 "WOW ! That is really a Sad thing to see.... Maybe time to re-write some laws ?"
I think it is. |
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Location: deephaven mn | is a $100 + $20 per fish really a stiff penalty ? (as reported by wcco) ?
if your hungery take 6 or 12, feed you family,that is what personal net it for
100 dead fish in the woods? gimme a big " COME ON MAN"
TAKE WHAT YOU NEED AND LEAVE THE REST |
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| I fished lake of the woods in the Morris area, years ago.
A Indian netted hundreds of walleye just to sell them to the restaurant in town, he said it was for a fish fry. I thought to myself why would that be legal; for money and not to feed his family.. He also left hundreds of suckers dead on the boat ramp.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'After seeing these pictures and to echo Top H20 "WOW ! That is really a Sad thing to see.... Maybe time to re-write some laws ?"
I think it is.'
The States of Wisconsin and Minnesota DID try to rewrite the law. The Treaties were re-confirmed by the US Supreme Court. That's why the Tribal Members are 'allowed' to net and spear, because the US took their homeland and the two governments agreed on the treaties governing the two parties into the future.
In other words, we don't 'allow' them to hunt and gather, it's their RIGHT to do so. YOU are 'allowed' to fish governed by your DNR, it is their RIGHT to hunt and gather, governed by theirs.
That said, this wanton waste is against the law no matter who is responsible, and I hope law enforcement from both governments can catch the jerks and punish them to the full extent of Tribal Law. |
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Posts: 221
| On LOTW in Andrew Bay, every year a native sets nets, to target whitefish, perpendicular to shore and doesn't mark them. Needless to say when we troll over these bloody things they get caught in our outboards (which has stranded us in the middle of nowhere, in fall)...
Every member of this board would be furious with the amount and size of Muskies and Pike that I pull from those nets. It's unreal. I chase and see these fish all summer and then some idiot swings in and kills a bunch for "EAGLE FOOD" as they call them.
They don't roll out or break free of nets... as the MNR and tribe members will try to have you believe. They roll up and die.
It's a disgrace... Something BETTER happen soon or people will start taking it into their own hands... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'It's a disgrace... Something BETTER happen soon or people will start taking it into their own hands...'
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Do that here in the US and you WILL end up fined, jailed, or worse for interfering with the netter's civil rights under US Treaty Law.
It's easy to understand our anger as sportsmen and women, but one has to consider the law first, and our social position on the matter as nothing more than opinion, because that's what a court of law will do. We don't have to like it, but we better be ready to suffer the consequences if we take unilateral action.
The proper protocol is to do what the folks who discovered these fish did...report it to the media and the authorities. The media coverage might assist in placing pressure on law enforcement to solve this case and punish the offenders. |
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| Steve, I'm not implying that I AM gonna go do something stupid... It doesn't say that in my post. ...although re-reading it, it does sound that way. I was implying that there are some crazy people out there who are very passionate about Muskies and will try to stop things due to the MNR doing short of nothing. ...again, this isn't me. Aside from me "illegally" cutting up their net to get it out of my prop...
Edited by 50inchGrinch 12/3/2011 9:35 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hard to get those things out of a prop, isn't it?  |
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| PS- This guy is running illegal nets too. From my understanding all nets must be marked and run parrallel to shore.
...still, the MNR does nothing.
PPS- It's going to be tough to document the dead muskies if one can't legally touch the nets in the water. ...unless it is caught up in your prop. |
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| Ha! Yes, they're very tough to get out! 
...can I legally film them bringing the nets in? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I know in the US as long as you do not impede the process, you can film it legally. |
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Location: Victoria,MN | I don't get it. Our license fees and tax dollars are partially used to stock these lakes and also use fish from these lakes for stripping eggs for stocking other lakes. Does it make sense to continue pumping money into these lakes if this continues?
I think indiscriminate ways of the "native" americans will desimate the trophy fisheries that we have.
As we see more and more of these situations, hopefully in near future our politicians will have some influence on the Supreme Court to change their way of thinking. |
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Incidents like this are not new, been going on for decades. In fact most DNR employees I know in the Walker/Bemidji area feel less netting is happening now than in the past.
Our fisheries haven't been "decimated" yet by this, so I don't think it will be.
We may not like it, but there are other areas in regards to fisheries where we can actually make productive changes than this. We aren't going to change treaty laws, plain and simple.
JS |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | JS,
Spot on.
It's highly unlikely the courts will even accept another challenge, and even more unlikely politicians would waste the time and resources trying to push the issue.
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| Guest - 12/3/2011 10:13 AM
Incidents like this are not new, been going on for decades. In fact most DNR employees I know in the Walker/Bemidji area feel less netting is happening now than in the past.
Our fisheries haven't been "decimated" yet by this, so I don't think it will be.
We may not like it, but there are other areas in regards to fisheries where we can actually make productive changes than this. We aren't going to change treaty laws, plain and simple.
JS
JS I hear ya, but where can "we" make more productive changes to help our fisheries for the future ? |
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Location: The desert | Oh my God I agree with JS for the second day in a row! What is happening to me???
Spot on John. Funny how some think this is some new thing that is going to ruin fisheries. |
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Location: Victoria,MN | I definately dont think its something new, but lakes such as Leech have had their issues in the past with a major decline in the walleye population and now has rebounded quite nicely with help from stocking and management. It would be a shame to see it happen again, on a broader scope.
What would lakes like these be like if the indescriminate harvest didn't happen? |
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Location: Nielsen's Fly-In Lodge, on Rowan Lake | When the people in my town of Walker saw this after all the effort that has been put out
It really made every one just stand up and say WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE and how can we turn our backs on tis any more. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No one should Don. Who ever left those fish to rot needs to be arrested. Sounds like the fine would be around $6000. Not earth shattering, but allot of money for most folks. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | I thought that Cisco Kid fella had left for life cuz this site made him so mad? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guess not sled, he just posts anonymously which is fine, actually. Hey, call me at 7156809265. |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | 50inchGrinch - 12/3/2011 8:50 AM
On LOTW in Andrew Bay, every year a native sets nets, to target whitefish, perpendicular to shore and doesn't mark them. Needless to say when we troll over these bloody things they get caught in our outboards (which has stranded us in the middle of nowhere, in fall)...
Every member of this board would be furious with the amount and size of Muskies and Pike that I pull from those nets. It's unreal. I chase and see these fish all summer and then some idiot swings in and kills a bunch for "EAGLE FOOD" as they call them.
They don't roll out or break free of nets... as the MNR and tribe members will try to have you believe. They roll up and die.
It's a disgrace... Something BETTER happen soon or people will start taking it into their own hands...
Got a first hand look at some of these nets on LOTW this summer...Pretty crappy thing without a doubt. Some of them stretch for hundreds of yards, paralell to shore they are anything but. Got tangled up in one and it was about the quality of 30 year old Xmas tree netting, what really irked me is that you could tell some of the nets were not being checked on a regular basis ( the near rotting fish confirmed that), just left out there to kill whatever swims in it.
Sucks to see it up close, it's a shame nothing can be done |
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| I have learned to always keep that file handy for my hooks.......
and my prop. Slice and Dice y'all.......... |
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Location: The desert | jonnysled - 12/3/2011 11:33 AM
I thought that Cisco Kid fella had left for life cuz this site made him so mad?
They always come back. Always. |
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Lots of things we can focus efforts on in MN.
The zebra mussel deal is getting pretty scary. Scary in the sense that we still have so many boaters that don't know or don't care about taking precautions.
Lots of educating needs to be done. It will take money and manpower to do it.
Pike regs just got axed on many lakes that were just starting to show positive results from the special regs. Be a good idea to get behind the DNR on getting that program back on track.
Of course we need more muskie lakes being so many of us fish for them now.
That's always a battle that needs persistent attention and focus from the muskie anglers.
Pointer, either we just aren't as different as we thought or maybe we're just getting to know each other better now??
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Location: The desert | Well, we are on the same page lately JS!
Focusing on trying to get rid of spearing or netting is mostly a wasted effort. Focusing on things that can be changed and can make an impact would be much better. |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | There is quite a bit of Native fishing occurring on the LOTWs. You need to look up the "Sparrow Case" to get some insight. Here's a little of it. http://arcbc.tripod.com/sparrow.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Sparrow. There's lots more if you look. Sort of parallels what going on in the states. This ruling also allows them to commercial fish. I guess I don't blame the Natives who do this as it's old treaties that have given them the rights. Walleyes are almost worth their weight in gold and I'm sure this is a good source of income to many of the LOTWs Natives, many whom I consider friends. However, I do find an occasional untended net that can be full of dead and bloating fish (including walleyes, pike, and an occasional muskie). I do have a contact with the Kenora DNR CO's who will come and check out and remove these nets, usually with a representative from the Indian Nation. However, nothing ever seems to come from this as far as I know, except the net has finally disappeared. From what I've been told if a net is used for subsistence fishing (family use) it doesn't have to be marked and can have anything from a small piece of wood to mark it to a Hilex Jug. All commercial nets are to be marked with an (approximate) 8" yellow buoy (sort of looks like a yellow roll of toilet paper) on both end of the net. They'll also have a # on them which will identify the tribe. Commercial quotas are regulated by the MNR, subsistence fishing is pretty much unregulated, I'll bet they have trouble telling one from the other. I've seen many nets on the LOTWs, some years there's lots (this year was full of them), and some years there's only a few. I would guess it depends on the market for walleyes and the price. There are some good Native fishermen who take care of their nets and lift them every day and some who aren't so good. They also catch many other fish which are of no value market wise (suckers, burbot, tullibees, and I suppose a few others). Most of these fish are fed to the Pelicans and Gulls which hang around it the area. You can pretty much tell if there's gill nets set in an area by the number of Pelicans around. If you have a number of good gill net fishermen on the lake and they fish hard they can catch almost every fish in the lake. This is what sort of happened to Red Lake a number of years ago. Gill nets are very effective. At times the Native nets certainly effectly fishing success in certain areas of the LOTWs. I doubt that there's much that can be done about it except to hope that someday either the Natives become more responsible (MORE LIKELY) or our Polititions become more responsible (LESS LIKELY). Doubt that I'll see much change in my life time! Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 12/3/2011 7:29 PM
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| Very well out Doug.
Thinking about this more, it seems a better approach to this problem is to try to develop a better net that targets the intended species.
Would take some brains and probably an incredible amount of time and money, but I'm sure something better could be developed.
Heck, I'd buy the first hundred to give to the reserves if such a net existed. |
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Location: Nielsen's Fly-In Lodge, on Rowan Lake | Well said Doug |
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Location: Iowa | I've been going up to Leech for a long time. I don't see in my mind, any natives going to that much trouble trying to hide fish like that. Maybe but I doubt it.
Ten miles east of Leech is pretty vague, but for the most part anything that far east of leech is not reservation land until you get north of federal dam.
Not that I agree with the old square hook method or with some of the "rights" the natives are given on the reservation. I just wouldn't assume the obvious and point your finger at the natives right away.
Jeremy
Edited by jwelch 12/3/2011 10:51 PM
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Location: The desert | 50inchGrinch - 12/3/2011 8:07 PM
Very well out Doug.
Thinking about this more, it seems a better approach to this problem is to try to develop a better net that targets the intended species.
Would take some brains and probably an incredible amount of time and money, but I'm sure something better could be developed.
Heck, I'd buy the first hundred to give to the reserves if such a net existed.
These nets already exist. You can order gill nets in multiple different mesh sizes that are more selective for small, medium, and larger fish. You can't get species specific, but you can get them to target certain sized fish based on what mesh size you put out.
All the nets I order come from a company in Minnesota and they can make any order of mesh you want. |
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Location: SE, WI. | Very sad subject. Sometimes in the fall I'll watch them pull the fish from their nets. They tend to get real nervous when One watches. I've seen them pull dead muskie and Pike from the net, and yes, 20 lb class fish , and just drop them to the bottom of the lake for the rusty's to eat. Seems every year I get my lures or Lower unit tangled in these nets, which are very tough to view, or invisible. Seems like some are not submursed. literally on the surface for your lower unit. I try to stay away from them, but of course, they are set in the finest fishing areas...:( |
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| PP, I think that's the problem... People who use these nets think the mesh size makes a difference in not catching muskies. ...I could be totally wrong but I believe these nets are exactly what the guy I'm referring to is using.
From what I've seen, they make no difference. ...again, could be totally wrong, maybe he is using a lower quality net??
I know you work in the field and probably have some experience with these nets so you definitely have more knowledge on them then me... Have you seen NO Muskies in nets set with smaller mesh sizes targeting smaller fish?
If even a couple Muskies get caught up these nets, then they're not good enough. I would like to see a net that NEVER kills fish bigger then a large whitefish. I'm sure juvenile Muskies will still be caught in such a net too tho. |
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Typically larger muskies, pike and even walleyes will die in small mesh nets because they try to eat the smaller fish caught in the net.
They get their teeth entangled in the mesh. and then wrap themselves up in it trying to get out.
Sometimes these fish can be untangled and let go if you take the time to do it.
I remember letting a 20+ lb pike to in Kabekona bay one summer working for the DNR. Just depends on how long they have been in the net.
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Location: The desert | 50inchGrinch - 12/4/2011 8:11 AM
PP, I think that's the problem... People who use these nets think the mesh size makes a difference in not catching muskies. ...I could be totally wrong but I believe these nets are exactly what the guy I'm referring to is using.
From what I've seen, they make no difference. ...again, could be totally wrong, maybe he is using a lower quality net??
I know you work in the field and probably have some experience with these nets so you definitely have more knowledge on them then me... Have you seen NO Muskies in nets set with smaller mesh sizes targeting smaller fish?
If even a couple Muskies get caught up these nets, then they're not good enough. I would like to see a net that NEVER kills fish bigger then a large whitefish. I'm sure juvenile Muskies will still be caught in such a net too tho.
The mesh sizes will be selective to a point, but they never will be able to completely stop musky or pike from being caught. As JS says the bigger fish can get stuck in the small mesh when they attempt to eat the smaller fish. I don't think you can develop a gill net that will be selective by species. A smaller mesh size would,likely reduce the number of muskies caught, but eliminating them completely is next to impossible with a gill net. A trap or fyke net would allow for fish not wanted to be released. |
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| Speechless, glad to see a news station stepped up and covered the topic. WCCO did a good job on the story.
Siniliar to a story that was posted on here this spring about spearing on Bone Lake. Authorities followed up on the giant speared muskies that were found in a nearby ditch, but I believe no charges wherever brought. I'll see if my friend still has the pictures, he posted them but the post was pulled down, not a pretty sight to see the natural resource wasted like this.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Bone lake spearing thread is in the recycle Bin. There was supposed to be pictures posted, but there are none there and none were deleted according to what I can see there.. |
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| It is disgusting and will have to be resolved by changing existing laws. Seems that will be a tough road, very tough, considering the sorts of things folks are focused on these days.
And don't forget the Native Americans were here first and the rest of us came later. Our imposition started a couple hundred years ago, now. "Your lands are now our lands and here's the strict rules that we'll change when it is profitable for us." Ha ha, what a can of worms, that one. |
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Location: Hudson, WI | GLIFWC and the DNR are conducting a two year study on Bone that will be completed in the spring of 2012 to determine the impact of winter spearing on the lake. Until then, it's really all speculation. |
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Location: The desert | Moltisanti - 12/7/2011 9:19 PM
GLIFWC and the DNR are conducting a two year study on Bone that will be completed in the spring of 2012 to determine the impact of winter spearing on the lake. Until then, it's really all speculation.
Do you know if they have any sort of progress report out with preliminary findings? |
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Location: Hudson, WI | Pointerpride102 - 12/8/2011 9:12 AM
Do you know if they have any sort of progress report out with preliminary findings?
Not that I could find, Mike. The last concrete numbers available are from Heath Benike's "Status of the Bone Lake Musky Fishery 2005/2006." It's a very good read and easily Googled. At that time the numbers were down 50% from the previous survey, but that was largely due to the decrease in stocking. My honest opinion is that it was the best thing that ever happened to that fishery. There were WAY too many fish in that system, and you could see it in the size and condition of the fish.
I'm not very optimistic about this survey, but I'm happy with the way the Lake Association, the DNR and GLIFWC were able to come together on it.
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Waste