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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | As a former st. Croix Staffer from '87-94 I was quite surprised this morning while browsing the website that some of their rod production has shifted to Mexico.
I am a firm believer in buying local and over the past 24 years I have bible pumped this frigging rod line to countless fishermen without the need for compensation.
That changes today...
It's clear that the Schluters have seen the light of the almighty buck.
I remember talking to Jeff @ a show back in '90 as he swore up and down that a St. Croix rod would never grace the pages of a BPS or Cabela's catalog... I got a chuckle out of his comments the 1st time I saw his rods in both cats.
I was thoroughly irritated when they brought in Rich Belanger in who changed the entire structure of the staffer eligibility.
I guess where I am going with this is, With all of the problems that our economy is having, I find it unforgivable that The Schluters are giving Wisconsin jobs to Mexicans.
Its time for a new rod line in my Tuffy !!
A poll to see where WI fishermen stand !
Will I congratulate those who agree with me or eat some crow ? 
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | It's only the mojos and the triumphs that are made in Mexico. But if they start shipping avids, premiers, and ledgens to Mexico then I'm out. Until then I'm St Croix for life! |
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Posts: 1749
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Tim hit the nail on the head. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | The number of workers at the factory in Park Falls has doubled since you were on the Pro Staff.
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Posts: 4266
| Anybody who rips on Rich Belanger, one of the nicest guys that I've ever met, won't get any support from me. All of my rods still say Made in the USA. |
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Posts: 496
| It seems to me that they have been forced to compete with all of the other "CHINA" made rods or give up all of the mid range sales . Ummm gotta make money to pay the bills,staff, promotions and RD . It allows a company to sell older technoligy to those who don't need the latest greatest best rod in the world while still offering the best . Just my opinion . |
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Posts: 675
Location: Twin Cities, MN | Pretty much the nature of business these days.
How many times do you see a string for the best / cheap / all purpose fishing rod ? Many purchase decisions come down to cost.
In order to compete in the market St Croix is making some rods in Mexico as previously noted and selling quite a few to my knowledge.
I have been buying St Croix since the early 90's and everything still says made in the USA. This is not always an option for everyone though.
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| I'm sure alot of people want to use St. Croix rods, but they cannot afford the $300 plus price tag that some can, including myself. I believe it was a smart decision on there part to make some rods affordable and still well made. Do you think St. Croix would put there name on a product that was not up to there high standards, probably not. If your so unhappy about it then don't buy it and dont start a thread bashing them. Go look through your belongings and tell us how many things you have that were not made in the USA. Yes the economy is bad right now and alot of us are out of work but these products are sold here in the states and you still have to pay sales tax on it. So the money still is here.
Just sayin. |
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Posts: 600
| I am glad that St. Croix has rods made in the US - not many rods are. I hope they continue to make them here. I think it is important to know where the "stuff" we buy is made, fishing products included. Most muskie lures are still made in the US but more and more overseas products are starting to creep their way into this market. I am glad that St. Croix has all their production, to my knowledge, in North America. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | And they have Beaver on their Pro Staff. Thumbs way up, St. Croix. Glad you're back, Beaver. |
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| Thumbs up for St Croix. Placing a portion of their business in Mexico is understandble and allows them to sustain the bulk of their business here. I have been a a satisified customer for over 10 years. This poll feels like a personal grudge. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | we would be a stronger economy with a less corrupt and stronger Mexico ... China has won the Global War on Manufacturing, India on service much in-part due to international money and ideas coming from more developed neighbors Korea, Japan, Singapore, Australia and Germany. Imagine if Mexico, Canada and the U.S. were able to build a similar force? there was a huge amount of investment in Latin America immediately following NAFTA and then the peso devalued in 1991 ... the criminals have been in-office ever since.
Mexico would be the last place i'd want to be doing business (due to crime and corruption of today) but i applaud St. Croix for making the effort.
all the crime put there so that the U.S. can have a steady flow of weed and cocaine ... nice
we the proud entitled Americans ... consumers of the corruption are above all of-course, at-least until the mirror comes into view.
tongue deeply imbedded in cheek. |
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Posts: 432
Location: Eagan, MN | If you can be replaced by non-English speaking, unskilled labor, it's probably time to find a new job anyway. Let's hope the people of WI aspire to something more. |
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Posts: 617
Location: Clintonville, WI | Capitalism is awesome. I respect St. Croix for making a big decision like that. The owners/company can choose to do what THEY believe to be best for THEM and consumers can choose to buy the goods or not.
I really like the rods I buy from St. Croix. Poorer quality would be the only thing that changes my mind for the worse, NO MATTER WHERE THE ROD IS MADE. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | cast10K - 11/3/2011 5:20 PM
If you can be replaced by non-English speaking, unskilled labor, it's probably time to find a new job anyway. Let's hope the people of WI aspire to something more.
assuming mexicans, chinese, vietnamese are "unskilled" may be one of the most profound oversight among Americans. you might be surprised at how "skilled" those unskilled non-english speaking people are ... |
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Posts: 32926
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Rich is a great guy.
St. Croix has never spent a cent here promoting or advertising, and the Pro Staff has used this place to sell the brand to the point of definite spam, but I like those folks and always will. As far as building some product across the border, it's a global economy out there.
Sled has it right. I am amazed by folks who blast Mexicans and assume they are unskilled...heck, most I have known speak two languages well. I don't.
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Posts: 432
Location: Eagan, MN | jonnysled - 11/3/2011 6:15 PM
cast10K - 11/3/2011 5:20 PM
If you can be replaced by non-English speaking, unskilled labor, it's probably time to find a new job anyway. Let's hope the people of WI aspire to something more.
assuming mexicans, chinese, vietnamese are "unskilled" may be one of the most profound oversight among Americans. you might be surprised at how "skilled" those unskilled non-english speaking people are ...
Don't assume that I am generalizing about all, or even the majority, of them. I work in IT. I'm well aware there are a lot of extremely skilled workers in those countries, and you can put India and the Philippines on your list as well. But that wasn't my point, nor was it what I stated. |
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| People want a good SC rod that doesn't cost $330 and then when it comes out, complain about where it was built. I use their LT, but I hear the new Mojo's coming out are great rods and I'd look at them, Mexico or not. |
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Posts: 208
Location: musky waters , WI | St croix rods are the top of the line. That's all I use and will ever use. The ones made in the usa are priced accordinly 140-330. The mojos are priced on the cheaper side but are still quality rods for the guy that doesn't wana. Spend 300 and still have a great product. I have a mono rod and love it. I also have premiers and legends and the are fantastic. All three. Series are great rods. And there no noticable diffrence in craftmanship as far as I can tell. |
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Posts: 189
Location: West Bend, WI | In the original post it sounds like you a personal grudge with the Schluters. |
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Posts: 339
Location: Denmark | The problem is not unique to the US, all over the western world are skilled workers losing their jobs, as a result of price dumping in the consumer market. St Croix is fighting "low price companies" who produce in Asia, so moving some part of the production to Mexico seems to me as a compromise from their part. I have respect for St Criox, but regret the circumstance created in the world today, not by Capitalism, but by extreme liberalism/and Chinese Communism(often called Authoritarian Capitalism in modern philosophy) |
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Posts: 485
Location: On my favorite lake! | I think you have to be competitive. So low end rods made outside country is ok. I use legends and as they are made here I don't mind paying a little more. If they moved all manufacturing out then not going to buy. Many companies build rods andcimport them. Just like everything else. Where is your reel made. I wish ardent would make a Muskie reel so I could buy all U.S. combo. |
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Posts: 225
Location: Nordeast Minneapolis | I guess it depends on quality... it's my understanding that St. Croix had a pretty big backlog a couple years ago because the Mexico plant wasn't producing up to snuff. Personally, I'd prefer to get a rod built in WI... but as long as the company is committed to making a quality product, I'm OK with it. |
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Posts: 422
| Another vote for personal grudge.... I have a mojo and some premiers and am equally happy with both. |
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Posts: 580
Location: deephaven mn | personal judge or not, the point is another good american company finding cheaper labor in another country, to bad.
i think our mind set needs to be that we will spend a few more dollars to buy an american made product. So to help them compete we need to gladly buy the mojo
and triumph series rods for a few bucks more as to keep all production in the states. |
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Posts: 5874
| peedenmark7 - 11/3/2011 9:34 AM
I was thoroughly irritated when they brought in Rich Belanger in who changed the entire structure of the staffer eligibility.
Uh, yeah. This one sentence pretty much sums up the reason behind this thread. I think Rich has a great Pro Staff now.
The only SC's I have now are LT's, and they are still made in the USofA. I have 4 of them, and they are awesome rods. Well, 2 of them are. The 2 I bought last fall have never been used yet. Been a slow year for getting on the water for me this year. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | "I have respect for St Criox, but regret the circumstance created in the world today, not by Capitalism, but by extreme liberalism/and Chinese Communism(often called Authoritarian Capitalism in modern philosophy)
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great post!!!
you captured it completely. i called it capitalistic communism and got a front-row seat and learned how the double-edged sword cuts into markets both good and bad.
as the world continues to shrink it will become even moreso ... and isolatonism sounds great but won't work in the long run.
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Posts: 1
| I've been watching these boards for years, wondering if I should ever get involved with some of the posts. Last week I decided I would after seeing some stupid posts on a couple of different forums. The one on this forum from peeingindenmark got me fedup. He goes on and blast a company and their personel, thens dives back into his hole and won't come out again. I applaud the rest of the users that responded to the post who refrained from getting on the bash wagon. And it looks like most people understand that in a global business environment, most companies will do what they have to to remain healthy and be around for the next decade.
While we may like or dislike that, it is what it is. If they continue to build there higher end products here, I'll continue to purchase them. If you look at the list of who is still building here, it's getting smaller all the time. They may be the only one left in 5-10 years, we'll see. That's it for now, I'm off to another forum that has me fedup. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | all industries are different but the asia paradigm is far from new, all started in latin america, then went to eastern europe and now to asia-pacific first china and now vietnam. the new frontiers most manufacturers are gearing up for now include russia and northern africa. it simply is what it is ...
in my industry there hasn't been any real considerable capital investment into the U.S. in 15 years or more so we are so far behind that we'll never catch up. the notion that they don't know what they are doing or that it's all unskilled labor is simply ridiculous.
consider a price of product a (rod built in the U.S.) vs. product b (rod built in Asia/Mexico) being 6-7% less expensive ... now, tell me you would buy one over the other?? 6-7% is the typical number for the cost of labor on most manufacturing p&l's ... so, even if labor was free the cost differential would not be enough to even notice. the difference in the manufacturing cost structure is a whole lot more complex than the cost of labor ... and that's the part that most folks don't "get" ... our tariffs are put there to protect against that. the cost of land, buildings, capital, currencies, insurance and the biggy ... income taxes to government is what it's all about.
also, consider buying from market a that has had no investment in 15 years and market b which seems to attract 100% of all the investment in development, innovation and capital equipment. which market do you think is more advanced??? and capable????
it's not that it's gonna happen folks ... it already did. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I don't see what all the fuss is about. Everyone has a choice as to whether they want to buy a USA made St.Croix or buy one that may better fit their budget. Let's face it, the Mojo or the Trumph series wouldn't exist if they produced everything in WI. They're doing as right by their customer base as any company can IMOP by giving everyone what they want.
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| People often let personal issues interfere with clear thinking. St. Croix is a BUSINESS not a LIABILITY. Through the Triumph and Mojo Series', St. Croix has STRENGTHENED their market share and no matter where those 2 series are made.......'Sconnie/USA folks will reap some benefit. Oh yeah, and Rich is a good dude. Just sayin'. |
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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | No beef with the Schluters other than the companies philosophy shift. Money is money...
Second, I quit tournament fishing in '94 I was not released. Again, my beef was with the simple Staff philosophy shift after the fact.
Though I will add that my "few" dealing with Rich were less than what I would call a great experience. Bad day on his end? I dont know.
I could and should have left him out of the original posting as he has nothing to do with where I was originally heading . Then again it all adds up.
The St Croix pro-Staff is better today than 20 years ago, no argument there.
My point and beef is sending jobs south of the border or any country for that matter PERIOD.
I believe I made no derogatory commentary about the Mexican people or the quality of work they do, Merely pointing out that the Schluters decided to send jobs out of WI when there are plenty of people to fill those jobs here in WI.
At an average "starting" price of $150 for a U.S. made rod, I believe St Croix can afford to pay an American worker to build the few series they funneled south of the border.
Lastly, I just found out that some of these rods were being made in mexico, hence my poll based on Jeff's very own words back in the day. Had I actually had a "personal" beef with St Croix, Rich, or Jeff, It would stand to reason that I would have said something long before today as I have been inactive since '94 by my choice.
I still wear the frigging St Croix swag daily , but the foreign made rods stick in my craw , capitalism or no capitalism.
Hope that clarifies my position. |
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Posts: 991
| the legend tournaments and premiers are great rods, I must admit im kind of a hypocrite since I switched over to TI rods which are made in china (I love the length and after using the TI for the first time I couldnt go back to my st croix with 14' butt ends) but if you do have the money why not have a rod maker personally make you a rod and support small business' as well. I plan on doing that when I am no longer a student |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | peedenmark7 - 11/16/2011 8:01 AM
At an average "starting" price of $150 for a U.S. made rod, I believe St Croix can afford to pay an American worker to build the few series they funneled south of the border.
Doubtful. If it were possible someone in the industry would be doing it.
Also, St.Croix employees are benefiting from this. The rods are still being sold by the sales force, the distribution is still being done in WI, purchasing for the materials I'm sure is still being done in-house, etc. The only difference is that there are a few people that wouldn't have been hired to manufacture the new product lines. So the good jobs are still intact (if not expanded upon) and the lower wage jobs are in Mexico for a product line that couldn't be manufactured at a price point that would have been justified otherwise.
Again, where's the problem? |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | The only way it's possible to build a rod in the U.S. at the prices charged for Mexican rods is
A: Company assumes loss for every rod built
B: Hire unskilled workers or those willing to work below minimum wage and without benefits (illegal immigrants)
C: Use the absolute cheapest components possible and no warranty and risk damaging reputation
None of those are very good options IMO but heck if you think you can build a rod here and sell it for $80-$150 bucks and be successful, good luck.
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Mexican St. Croix rods ???? POLL Time