Posted 10/20/2011 1:50 PM (#521426) Subject: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Just fustated with the amount of dead fish lately...What will it take to do away with live bait (Large suckers) for muskies? In the last week I have seen 5 and I have only been on the lake three days. I didn't see that many all summer (i fish every day). The water temp is right around 50 fish should not be dying. Don't get me wrong I have fished with suckers and it is fun but, the way the sport is expanding and the amount of novice anglers that are out there I think it should be done away with.
Posted 10/20/2011 2:10 PM (#521429 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB
those fish could of died other ways than getting hooked by muskie fisherman,what state
not frustrated
Posted 10/20/2011 2:33 PM (#521432 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
sucker fishing won't be banned, I doubt those 5 fish died from people sucker fishing, but it is possible and if they did the better thing to do would be to educate these "novice anglers" on the correct way to use a quick strike rig
Posted 10/20/2011 2:35 PM (#521433 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 501
Location: S.Wisconsin
The temp outside is 55 and people are dying. Fish die all the time. I have used suckers for quite some time and have never killed a fish.....other than some suckers. How about other methods that kill plenty. Just have fun and go fish. I will be using suckers this weekend so we will see how it goes
Fustrated
Posted 10/20/2011 2:40 PM (#521436 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Minnesota... looked in the mouth of one of them and some had gut hooked the fish with a sucker rig. With good intentions they had cut the rig but reguardless still alot of fish dying. If i saw five I wonder how many I did not see.
Posted 10/20/2011 2:52 PM (#521437 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 619
what lake is this? people should know if they have been fishing this lake recently.. my email is [email protected] if you do not want to post... folks need to know the results of their release to improve.
Posted 10/20/2011 2:52 PM (#521438 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 743
if Frustrated fishes these lakes all the time, he would notice an increase in the amount of dead fish and the increase in the amount of sucker fisherman. if you are seeing more boats fishing suckers and more dead fish, it's safe to assume the sucker fisherman are killing them. looks like MN is about to catch up WI on sucker consumption. wasn't it only 6 years ago with most MN fisherman would mock people who used suckers and preached how it's not sporting? now you cant import suckers to MN fast enough.
Posted 10/20/2011 3:11 PM (#521442 - in reply to #521438) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 400
Location: North/Central WI
I guess I'd be frustrated rather than fustrated, but that's just me. I'll bet my boat that more fish are killed on rubber baits on an annual basis than livebait. I've had a couple hundred caught on livebait out of my boat with 0 dead fish. Novice anglers can kill muskies in a lot of different ways...
Edited by NateOz 10/20/2011 3:13 PM
Reality Check
Posted 10/20/2011 3:14 PM (#521444 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Sucker fishing has been practiced in Minnesota for as long as anywhere else. It's been a fall tradition for ages to fish pike with suckers, it's just that people don't seem to care as much whether or not pike get killed.
More anglers are fishing for muskies every day, and live bait is a natural switch for folks who have already been using it all their lives to catch pike.
More education (or continuuing it) about properly using quick-strike rigs and safe handling will help. Heck, Wisconsin just banned single-hook swallow rigs!
pepsiboy
Posted 10/20/2011 3:14 PM (#521445 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posted 10/20/2011 3:29 PM (#521447 - in reply to #521445) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 3165
frustrated
name the lake every lake in Minn is getting pounded so you wont be giving anything away..
I do know of one guy who fishes city lakes who has the policy when the fish takes the sucker,smoke a cigarette then its time to set the hook,,,is it metro???
Posted 10/20/2011 3:33 PM (#521448 - in reply to #521447) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 619
happy hooker - 10/20/2011 3:29 PM
frustrated
name the lake every lake in Minn is getting pounded so you wont be giving anything away..
I do know of one guy who fishes city lakes who has the policy when the fish takes the sucker,smoke a cigarette then its time to set the hook,,,is it metro???
i would bet it is not a metro lake... i would bet further north...metro lakes hardly have enough fish in them to have 5 floaters when there is only 100 fish to begin with, unless its calhoun
Posted 10/20/2011 5:00 PM (#521467 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 203
Location: Minnesota
Granted... I can see Frustrated's perspective... but on the other hand... I was there to witness my partner lose a presumed big one on a sucker rig... The muskie grabbed his bait and went for a fast hard run... As soon as he reeled up the slack and felt some weight, with me having the net ready and telling him to go ahead, he went ahead n set the hook... as he set the hook, his line broke... sliced clean... mind you, it was 80lbs superbraid and the whole thing transpired in less than 30 seconds... What the muskie do with that sucker, we'll never know... Also last year, I was using a Mag Pro Dawg... three headshakes later, the dawg along with 6-7' of 175# fluoro was gone... Yep... the fish apparently sheared off the leader...
Pretty much, when one loves muskie fishing... they'll have to approach the sport with an open-mind... You werent there when this fish was hooked... Yes I admit 5 sounds too high to be accidental, but who knows... Maybe the line or the leader broke while fighting the fish... maybe the angler was ignorant to know better... maybe this or that... We can only do so much to ensure the fish's survival but things do happen for a reason...
Posted 10/20/2011 10:44 PM (#521506 - in reply to #521467) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin
I have fished for muskies in the Sucker State, Wisconsin for 50 years. If someone doesn't think many many muskies are not being killed by sucker fishing, they are living in a fantasy land. Sucker fishing for muskies has increased 10 fold in the last 20 years. There is not a sucker shortage, there are just 10 fold the sucker anglers trying to buy the same amount of suckers. There are popular lakes in northern WI, 1000 acres or so where on fall Saturdays there are 50+ suckers soaking at any given time. 2 to 3 per boat and 20 boats. If only one fish per Saturday is allowed to swallow the sucker too long, or if only one line is broken on the hook set, etc., per Saturday in Oct, and Nov., that is too many fish, especially if they are expected to live 20+ years to reach trophy size.
If no one ever thinks they may have killed a muskie sucker fishing, why are switching from single hooks to quick set rigs, why have we changed from 65 to 80 to 100 to 120 # test line???????
A muskie can not reach 50"s, if at 45"s it swallows a 12" sucker in 10 seconds and anglers are waiting minutes to set the hook.
There is a reason some of the well know muskie anglers "no longer" use suckers.
Posted 10/20/2011 10:53 PM (#521508 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Those numbers apply to many other presentations too, and some are just as dangerous to the fish as a quick strike rig. I bet more are killed on soft plastics than are on suckers now that the kill rigs are pretty much gone and sooooo many folks are throwing soft plastics with multiple trebles. The multiple giant trebles on double 10s are not very safe, either. Muskies do eat 'em.
Your post indicates we need to stop fishing muskies entirely, if taken as it reads.
Why did the accepted quick strike rig switch to heavier line and no single hook in a quick strike design? Is that a serious question?
Folks need to use quick strike rigs properly, and all is pretty much well.
Posted 10/20/2011 11:16 PM (#521509 - in reply to #521506) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 8865
Johnnie - 10/20/2011 10:44 PM
I have fished for muskies in the Sucker State, Wisconsin for 50 years. If someone doesn't think many many muskies are not being killed by sucker fishing, they are living in a fantasy land. Sucker fishing for muskies has increased 10 fold in the last 20 years. There is not a sucker shortage, there are just 10 fold the sucker anglers trying to buy the same amount of suckers. There are popular lakes in northern WI, 1000 acres or so where on fall Saturdays there are 50+ suckers soaking at any given time. 2 to 3 per boat and 20 boats. If only one fish per Saturday is allowed to swallow the sucker too long, or if only one line is broken on the hook set, etc., per Saturday in Oct, and Nov., that is too many fish, especially if they are expected to live 20+ years to reach trophy size.
If no one ever thinks they may have killed a muskie sucker fishing, why are switching from single hooks to quick set rigs, why have we changed from 65 to 80 to 100 to 120 # test line???????
A muskie can not reach 50"s, if at 45"s it swallows a 12" sucker in 10 seconds and anglers are waiting minutes to set the hook.
There is a reason some of the well know muskie anglers "no longer" use suckers.
Not sure where you are fishing, but in my area of N/WI there are far fewer muskie anglers than any time in the past. All the resorts are gone, and there are no longer dozens of camp boats on every lake every weekend. I believe the answer to your question is simple - the switch to Q.S. rigs and heavier line etc. is so we don't kill fish sucker fishing. I don't fish with live bait all that often, but I find your statement about the "well known anglers" not fishing with live bait to be laughable. Again, I'm not sure where you are fishing, but I've found just the opposite. All of the "well known anglers" I've come in contact with fish with live bait. In fact, most of the good ones stop casting all together when the water reaches about 55 degrees, and exclusively fish with live bait for the remainder of the season. If done right, it is a perfectly effective and safe way to fish, and I suspect no more dangerous to the fish than any other method we use.
If there are 20 boats on a 1,000 acre lake on a Saturday, all fishing with live bait... How many of them are fishing in an area where they are likely going to encounter a fish anyway? How many of them will actually hook a fish? How many, out of the ones who DO actually hook a fish, will kill it in the process?
I'm not exactly a champion of live bait fishing, probably only done it a few dozen times over the last several years. But it's been my experience that you still need to be in the right spot, with your suckers at the right depth. And the feeding windows tend to be very short - you may see action for 15 minutes, and if you're lucky it will happen more than once in a day. So again, 20 boats on a Satuday... I'd be very surprised of that amounts to 10 fish caught in a single day on that lake. How many guys are out there on a Saturday in July? And how many fish do you suppose are caught then? How many of them are caught by guys without good nets, good release tools, who drop them or put them in the floor of the boat, and hold them out of the water for 10 minutes taking a gazillion pictures?
When you set the hook and put 5/0 treble hooks into the mouth of a fish, and fight that fish, catch that fish, net that fish, and unhook it? Bad things are bound to happen. This might not be a popular statement, but when I go muskie fishing, I go out there to catch the #*^@ things. I do the best I can to release them unharmed, because I know that's the right thing to do. And, I do it so I can catch them again. And, I might add, as far as I am concerned, a muskie is pretty well worthless for any other purpose than catching them. They're certainly no good to eat. They're ugly, the smell bad, they eat everything, they're expensive to raise and stock. And they attract some of the most ignorant, obnoxious, self righteous and entitled anglers I have ever met. If they weren't so much fun to catch, I'd lump 'em in the same catagory as carp!
Posted 10/21/2011 12:23 AM (#521515 - in reply to #521509) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin
from reading some of the posts on here in the last week it's hard to believe there are any Muskies left in Minnesota....But From some of the pics I have seen this week from a few guides up there I don't think they have gotten the memo yet...
pepsiboy
Posted 10/21/2011 1:12 AM (#521516 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
i have seen many suckers video, everybody is using a qsr but i have not seen a single fisherman who have set the hook once the bait have been grabbed.was sure the primaly purpose of that rig was to avoid that long waiting
Posted 10/21/2011 8:04 AM (#521524 - in reply to #521467) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 619
Rebel9921 - 10/20/2011 5:00 PM
Granted... I can see Frustrated's perspective... but on the other hand... I was there to witness my partner lose a presumed big one on a sucker rig... The muskie grabbed his bait and went for a fast hard run... As soon as he reeled up the slack and felt some weight, with me having the net ready and telling him to go ahead, he went ahead n set the hook... as he set the hook, his line broke... sliced clean... mind you, it was 80lbs superbraid and the whole thing transpired in less than 30 seconds... What the muskie do with that sucker, we'll never know... Also last year, I was using a Mag Pro Dawg... three headshakes later, the dawg along with 6-7' of 175# fluoro was gone... Yep... the fish apparently sheared off the leader...
I am sorry, but these are the types of things that really hurt lakes...if a fish swallows a bait fine... but in my experience and through buddies these types of things do not happen unless you have faulty equipment...CHECK your equipment and buy quality stuff... along these lines there are so many guys without nets and tools lately , casting w/ spinning rods these types of things are will sure help fishing in the future
Pretty much, when one loves muskie fishing... they'll have to approach the sport with an open-mind... You werent there when this fish was hooked... Yes I admit 5 sounds too high to be accidental, but who knows... Maybe the line or the leader broke while fighting the fish... maybe the angler was ignorant to know better... maybe this or that... We can only do so much to ensure the fish's survival but things do happen for a reason...
I am sorry, but these are the types of things that really hurt lakes...if a fish swallows a bait fine... but in my experience and through buddies these types of things do not happen unless you have faulty equipment...CHECK your equipment and buy quality stuff... along these lines there are so many guys without nets and tools lately , casting w/ spinning rods these types of things are will sure help fishing in the future
Posted 10/21/2011 8:11 AM (#521528 - in reply to #521524) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 400
Location: North/Central WI
So Johnnie-
What method are these "well known" muskie anglers using in the late fall now that they "no longer" use suckers? Rowtrolling? Can't remember any trophy fish being killed using that tactic recently. Umm...wait...nevermind...can't go there...off limits...
Posted 10/21/2011 10:24 AM (#521540 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
I haven't fished live bait alot, but when I have we had all SORTS of action around the boat without the fish taking, including follows. One mid 40ish fish followed the sucker for over 100 yards on a fairly slow drift. I got tired of looking at the thing.
Amused
Posted 10/21/2011 10:25 AM (#521541 - in reply to #521538) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posted 10/21/2011 10:50 AM (#521547 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 61
Location: Anoka
Hey fustrated your seeing 5 dead fish really concerns me if you dont mind giving me a pm to let me know witch lake.
I would like to look into this I spend alot of time on the water and if you seen 5 dead fish on a MN lake it would be worth going out and see whats going on thats alot of dead muskie to see in mid october thanks.
Posted 10/21/2011 10:54 AM (#521548 - in reply to #521516) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin
pepsiboy - 10/21/2011 1:12 AM
i have seen many suckers video, everybody is using a qsr but i have not seen a single fisherman who have set the hook once the bait have been grabbed.was sure the primaly purpose of that rig was to avoid that long waiting
just a lil onservation
Pepsiboy- Obviously you have never fished with Howie Meyer. His sucker fishing quick strike technique is to set the hook as soon as the clicker starts or as soon as you feel a hit/weight on the sucker if you're holding the rod - literally a matter of a few seconds. Also no multiple hooks, and no rubber bands involved in rigging the sucker. Lift off rig - what a joke. Howie's basic concept behind the hook set is to try & break the rod. Howie's sucker fishing quick strike technique really works, and it doesn't give the fish time to swallow. I was not a fan of sucker fishing before I fished w/Howie , as I had never done it before the first MF Presque Isle outing in late October, after the first time out with Howie I knew he had shown or more correctly taught me an effective tool to put big fish into the net. BTW: I grew up fishing pike w/ live bait.
The USA economy is in the tank, but I wish I could be up there in Presque Isle w/ the October Fish Club. Stick some big ones, guys. "That sucker sure is acting nervous". Is that Nessie? Nah, its Saint1 taking a dip in Presque Isle!
Have fun!
Al
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Posted 10/21/2011 5:31 PM (#521582 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 22
Location: Minnesota
I fish suckers in november. that's all i do in late season. I have NEVER had a fish hooked even remotely close to the gut. Never. Hearing the clicker is just as exhilarating as seeing the follow. I spend alot of time fishing suckers, alot of time. As soon as I can get my boat behind the fish....which takes only seconds... the hook is set. I don't get how you can blame all this on live bait fishing because you saw ONE fish with what you PRESUME to be a rig in his gut. I spend countless hours on metro(MN) lakes and have never seen a dead ski in oct-nov. let alone one from rigging. AND THESE ARE METRO LAKES where the citidiots fish. I'm guessing you found a fish with it's esophagus ripped up and blamed it on the first thing that crossed your mind. Guys draging meat. Get real, sucker fishing is not going anywhere. It's here to stay. A novice angler today is a veteran for the future. Some one to stand up for the sport when we're all dead. Everybody has to learn sometime, especially in a sport as popular as muskie fishing has become. I feel bad when I see a HUGE buck dead on the side of the road in november, but I don't tell people to stop driving at night cause there rutting. Shoot... that's just life. We all die one day.
Posted 10/22/2011 12:06 PM (#521640 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
If everyone was using J 'kill/swallow' hooks, a ban would help immensely. Very few still do. Since quick strike rigs are designed for CPR, the effect would be minimal because anglers would still fish muskies with other presentations.
Posted 10/24/2011 12:42 PM (#521863 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 97
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Properly used, live bait fishing is no more dangerous than any other form of fishing.
Fishing is a predatory activity. If you fish muskies long enough, you will injure and/or kill a fish, whether you cast, troll, fish live bait, or vertical jig over open water. If that bothers you, you should stop fishing all together.
Posted 10/24/2011 12:56 PM (#521864 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 432
Location: Eagan, MN
I don't think anyone who has caught a significant number of fish (on any method) can claim they've never killed one... if you've caught a bunch, you've killed a few. Delayed mortality is real. I don't care how good the fished looked when it swam away.
As for live bait... well I think it's pretty obvious that there is a greater potential for throat/gut hooking. Whether that potential is realized depends on the angler.
Posted 10/25/2011 2:13 PM (#522074 - in reply to #521640) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin
sworrall - 10/22/2011 12:06 PM
If everyone was using J 'kill/swallow' hooks, a ban would help immensely. Very few still do. Since quick strike rigs are designed for CPR, the effect ( of a live bait ban) would be minimal because anglers would still fish muskies with other presentations.
I have to disagree. I know anglers here in Wisconsin, who catch most of their annual catch of muskies on suckers. I know of many more anglers her in Wisconsin, who catch most of their Oct. and Nov. muskies, on suckers. If suckers were banned in Northern WI, where trolling is illegal, the muskie catch rate and thus the mortality rate would drop dramatically. I am saying ~75 per cent of muskies caught in northern WI, after Oct 1st are caught on suckers. That is 3 out of 4.
Quick set rigs "IF USED PROPERLY", work great as a C & R bait. The trouble is many do not use them properly. If an angler misses a strike on a sucker, the next time he waits longer. They wait too long before they set the hook. A 45+ inch muskie can inhale a 12 " sucker in seconds. IMO, any time, a bait is used where there is any delay between the strike and setting the hook, there is more of a possibility, of deep hooking the muskie.
Plain and simple, if a muskie needs to live 15+ years to reach trophy size, and it only encounters one sucker rig per fall, in northern Wisconsin's rather smallish lakes, you had better hope and pray all 15 anglers using those quick set rigs, USED THEM PROPERLY. I personally feel, many muskies are caught numerous times per year, here in WI.
Posted 10/25/2011 6:18 PM (#522124 - in reply to #522074) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
Posted 10/25/2011 9:07 PM (#522150 - in reply to #521619) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 167
thats because people need to use atleast 130 pound for live bait riggin because of the shear shock of the hook sets. Its just like the people that i see throwing cowgirls with spinning rods and too light of tackle in the metro! People just need to be a little better educated................but u are always gunna have newbies trying things out so i dont personally think you will ever get away from dying fish. Teach to the best of your abilities and sights like this one when people ask questions about techniques or riggings answer them dont just think ohhh thats dumb. Pass on knowledge and gain knowledge thats what this sport is all about. Now im not saying giving away spots or lakes.............just smart information. Just my opinion.
more frustrated
Posted 10/25/2011 10:40 PM (#522163 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
You MN fisherman really do have a bug up ur butt about this dont you. Would you also like guns, alcohol, and vehicles banned because they cause deaths as well? I am guessing probably not. None of these things cause deaths, irresponsible use of these things can cause deaths however the answer to this problem is simply education. With the right rig sucker fishing is literally one of the safest ways to catch a musky.
EA
Posted 10/25/2011 11:27 PM (#522164 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
We trick them into eating stuff that's not food. That stuff has anywhere from 1-3 treble hooks on it, that we sharpen to the point where you can barely handle it yourself. And as soon as they eat it, we slam those hooks into their faces with all of our might, senting them through bone, flesh, gills, tongues and cartilage alike.
Then we reel them in while they fight with all of their strength, net them, and pull those same hooks out with pliers while holding their heads out of water. Then, we hoist them of their environment, where they are unable to breathe, after what is likely the most traumatic and life threatining experience they have ever had. And we take pictures of them. Then we put them back in the water, while holding them by their tail, which they need and would use if not for sheer exhaustion.
Does the method by which we catch them in this particular case REALLY matter??
Inexperienced anglers are doing all SORTS of things, from improper release tools, to small nets, to no nets at all, to spending 5 miutes trying to get the hooks out, laying them in the boat, DROPPING them in the boat, taking 15 pictures on a hot day, throwing them back in the water, not keeping them upright, fishing in hot weather, cutting the line, leaving jogs and samll crankbaits in their mouths...
Why should we outlaw a method that thousands of dedicated anglers use with great success? Because a few folks who don't know any better might kill a fish? If they're doing that kind of damage with QS rigs, they're doing it anywhere they fish, with everything they fish with, any time they catch one.
Maybe we ought to just outlaw musky fishing all together for anyone who has been at it less than 5 years. Or better yet? NO NEW ANGLERS. If you're not fishing for them now? You can't. It's illegal. Or how about a muskie license? $50 for the year, just to fish for muskies. And you have to pass a 2 hour 100 question essay test on proper fishing methods and release techniques. Oh and you must prove that you have all the latest and greatest release tools, and sign an addadavit stating that you will not, under any circumstances, take any fish under 45" out of the water for any reason, and will never, under any circumstances take a fish out of the water and hold it for a picture unless you are able to do so in 10 seconds. No live bait, noo hooks with barbs, no taking fish out of the water, no fishing when the water is warm, or within 1 month of the spawm, whether they reproduce in your area or not. And while we're at it, how about a 2 fish limit per season? You catch two, you're done. Maybe a mandatory tithe of 5% of your income for life, to be allocated to stocking of new fisheries??? One line per person, one rod in the boat, and only one hook per lure? Maybe we should mandate that after you see a follow you must quit fishing for 48 hours. Why, you might have scared that fish to death! I wonder if we can enroll them in muskie therapy, so after you catch them we can sure they aren't afriad to eat, and that the trauma doesn't prevent them from living normal muskie lives??
Posted 10/26/2011 2:10 AM (#522167 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 366
While this discussion began about Minnesota and Wisconsin lakes where the average muskie angler knowledge is among the highest in the country, this simply isn’t the case for the rest of the country. I only mention this because many of the posts and points are addressing other anglers questioning the methods directly, single hook rigs are not illegal everywhere and I would venture a guess that +90% of anglers still use them here in TN. Most people here targeting muskies have never even heard of a quick strike rig. Preaching education and correction over outlawing methods is great when the majority of the muskie anglers are knowledgeable and use quick strike rigs properly, but discussions like that only result in more dead muskies in TN every year as the minority few experienced muskie anglers try to work toward regulation changes as the education process creeps along. I’m talking about significant percentages of the muskie population, not just a couple gut hooked floaters a year. There are plenty of photos of monofilament hanging out of their throats.
There are tons of regulations and enforcement on guns, alcohol, and vehicles because of the dangers of improperly using them. None of that really matters as it’s an apples-oranges analogy, and has little bearing on how fishing regulations should be considered.
From what I’ve experienced the majority of the TWRA, especially the upper level decision makers have less understanding and knowledge about muskie fishery management at this point than the average muskie fisherman in MN or WS, and they look what your states have done and are doing to address the issues we have. Unfortunately, as I’ve explained the issues the fisheries here face are apples-oranges to what happens in the north, but that doesn’t keep the same arguments you guys are bringing forth from being used against the efforts to protect and create the fisheries in TN. I’m sure most other states are somewhere between these two ends of the spectrum, so just be glad that honestly feel like the method abusers and fish killers are in the minority and not the majority whom destroy the fishing opportunities of all anglers, new and old.
Posted 10/26/2011 7:37 AM (#522171 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Location: Hartford Wi
Don't fish its that easy!!!!! I have caught tons of fish on suckers and on baits most of the hooksets have been worse on lures than live bait. So DONT presume its sucker rigs that are killing the fish!!!!
Posted 10/26/2011 7:59 AM (#522175 - in reply to #522164) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 11
EA - 10/25/2011 11:27 PM
Maybe we should mandate that after you see a follow you must quit fishing for 48 hours. Why, you might have scared that fish to death!
That's what I do now.... I still don't get the push to catch these slimy things. Follows > Catch
Posted 10/26/2011 9:44 AM (#522194 - in reply to #522175) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 3165
actually I think we should carry small hypo needles with a couple ounces of serum so we can vaccinate muskies against tetanus from rusty hooks after caught
Posted 10/28/2011 1:28 AM (#522483 - in reply to #521863) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 86
Louis - 10/24/2011 12:42 PM
Properly used, live bait fishing is no more dangerous than any other form of fishing.
Fishing is a predatory activity. If you fish muskies long enough, you will injure and/or kill a fish, whether you cast, troll, fish live bait, or vertical jig over open water. If that bothers you, you should stop fishing all together.
Amen...great post!
figure8
Posted 10/30/2011 10:48 AM (#522736 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
I'm so tired of such foolish talk. Way more muskies die every year from anglers that use art. baits then there is those killed by those that use suckers. My god we are going to good guy about every little thing till they us to stop putting hooks on baits. Just be glad we can still fish and enjoy it.
Posted 10/30/2011 8:27 PM (#522789 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 91
Location: Knoxville, TN
Down here in TN the new method guys use is rainbow trout with single hooks with monofilament on muskies that pile up into a really small areas. They cut off lots of fish and you see lots of dead muskies floating in certain areas but our DNR (TWRA) does nothing about it. Ryan is right, down here we are trying to protect what we have as nearly every fish on Melton Hill piles up into a 5 acre cove and are really preyed upon by everybody. It's really sad that TWRA allows these live bait guys to gut hook muskies. If you fellas could offer any advice or suggestions, feel free to email me [email protected].
Posted 10/31/2011 8:09 AM (#522827 - in reply to #522074) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI
If suckers were banned in Northern WI, where trolling is illegal, the muskie catch rate and thus the mortality rate would drop dramatically.
John Aschenbrenner
While you're at it may as well ban night fishing in the summer, catch rate will drop and so will mortality. Soft plastics have a tendency to be inhaled, ban that too. Drop the catch rate any way possible.
Always blame the technique, not the uneducated user. Typical.
Posted 10/31/2011 9:36 PM (#522972 - in reply to #521619) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 152
use the right rigs and you will cut down the number of dead muskies. Things do happen like cheap leaders breaking or say a bobber gets a plug made from something laying around the boat and the line gets cut but i have caught a large amount of sucker muskies and every single one that found the bottom of the bag swam off with no problems . 5 dead seems crazy high and it almost seem intentional . I would almost bet these fish met the same uneducated person and this person needs a talking to
Guest
Posted 11/2/2011 4:41 PM (#523246 - in reply to #522124) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
sworrall - 10/25/2011 6:18 PM
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
This is BS
Musky Hunter episodes and articles, fishing with suckers...are teaching to not to set the hook immediately. First, slowly and calmly walk back to the rod so you don't spoke the fish. Second pick up the rod a "feel for the fish". Next ask partner to slowly move the boat over the fish. 4th...reel up the slack...make sure the fish is still there. 5 Set the hook.
Thats plenty of time for a 50 to engulf a 12-18 inch sucker and end up as turtle food.
They are called quick stike rigs for a reason. Their intended use is in their name. The same with fishing an artificial...get a bite set the hook instantaneously. I have used them, I weight them, set the bait to depth, hold the rod a slowly move along the area I want to fish with the TM. When one hits I set the hook...don't ever recall missing more than a couple.
Posted 11/2/2011 5:45 PM (#523253 - in reply to #523246) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 80
Guest - 11/2/2011 4:41 PM
sworrall - 10/25/2011 6:18 PM
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
This is BS
Musky Hunter episodes and articles, fishing with suckers...are teaching to not to set the hook immediately. First, slowly and calmly walk back to the rod so you don't spoke the fish. Second pick up the rod a "feel for the fish". Next ask partner to slowly move the boat over the fish. 4th...reel up the slack...make sure the fish is still there. 5 Set the hook.
Thats plenty of time for a 50 to engulf a 12-18 inch sucker and end up as turtle food.
They are called quick stike rigs for a reason. Their intended use is in their name. The same with fishing an artificial...get a bite set the hook instantaneously. I have used them, I weight them, set the bait to depth, hold the rod a slowly move along the area I want to fish with the TM. When one hits I set the hook...don't ever recall missing more than a couple.
I can do all of those steps in 35 seconds. Never had a sucker inhaled even after a minute. Whats the point of fishing if your not even going to fish?
Posted 11/2/2011 7:41 PM (#523271 - in reply to #523246) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Guest - 11/2/2011 4:41 PM
sworrall - 10/25/2011 6:18 PM
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
This is BS
Musky Hunter episodes and articles, fishing with suckers...are teaching to not to set the hook immediately. First, slowly and calmly walk back to the rod so you don't spoke the fish. Second pick up the rod a "feel for the fish". Next ask partner to slowly move the boat over the fish. 4th...reel up the slack...make sure the fish is still there. 5 Set the hook.
Thats plenty of time for a 50 to engulf a 12-18 inch sucker and end up as turtle food.
They are called quick stike rigs for a reason. Their intended use is in their name. The same with fishing an artificial...get a bite set the hook instantaneously. I have used them, I weight them, set the bait to depth, hold the rod a slowly move along the area I want to fish with the TM. When one hits I set the hook...don't ever recall missing more than a couple.
Take that up with MH if you think the wrong educational message is being offered there. Most Muskie anglers fish quick strike rigs responsibly.
Posted 11/2/2011 8:27 PM (#523281 - in reply to #523277) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN
My buddy just got a 50.5 on sucker, the line got wrapped up in the prop of the trolling motor and hand lined it. Good things since he was not using a sucker.
Posted 11/3/2011 7:49 AM (#523319 - in reply to #523282) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi
Not to mention a great bartender!! lol
Riverman
Posted 11/3/2011 11:56 AM (#523365 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
It seems this topic comes up every year here on M1. I live in the west and live bait fishing has been banned here for decades so it's hard for me to even imagine using live bait. Nevertheless, it seems reasonable that if live bait kills even a small portion of the fish it would make sense to no longer allow it.
Posted 11/3/2011 12:16 PM (#523373 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 8865
The very nature of fishing is going to cause some mortality. I suspect that more than a few fish are lost to trolling, small lures inhaled deep, tongues and gills punctured... It's good to educate, and it's good to outlaw methods (single hook swallow rigs) that are known to kill a significant number of fish. But a live bait ban? That's something that a majority of muskie anglers spend their last month of the season doing with great success. And as others have mentioned, if done properly it poses no greater threat to the fish than the three trebles on most of our lures.
I get that we all place muskies in high regard. But there's a point where it becomes silly. I think we have reached that point with this discussion. The only way to eliminate angling mortality is to just plan not fish. And what good are muskies if you can't fish for them?
Posted 11/3/2011 1:11 PM (#523385 - in reply to #523370) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 366
jonnysled - 11/3/2011 12:12 PM
musky zealots if given their way will turn the sport into trout fishing ...
yes, and the ignorant morans would slaughter entire populations of muskies if you let them, like they did in many areas of the country that no longer have true native populations of muskies.
But, the reality of this issue is that it isn't as truly polarized as either one of us claims it to be. The right regulations for any fishery isn't a quick easy thing to settle on, and any regulation should change with the state and need of the fishery.
To say there is nothing wrong with any particular tactic if done correctly is meaningless. How do you enforce something being done correctly? How do you educate people who won't listen to what you have to say?
I don't think that live bait fishing should be banned in WS, MN, or across the country. But, are there certain situations and fisheries where is makes sense to ban it? Yes.
I think a trolling ban is silly, but if a big part of Wisconsin feels otherwise, well there must be good reason for it.
Posted 11/3/2011 2:18 PM (#523412 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 366
Well, in my observation, which was my point, you don't teach those individuals anything because learning is participation activity and the only thing they participate in learning is the easiest way to catch a muskie. You teach their children and grandchildren, and slowly repair the damage that has been done. I’d rather go the direct route and keep the damage from being done in the first place.
Posted 11/3/2011 2:28 PM (#523415 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 8865
You can't educate the people who won't listen. So you concentrate on those who will. The good news is that the ones who won't listen to you won't listen to anyone else either, so chances are they're not out there catching many fish anyway.
Posted 11/3/2011 2:49 PM (#523422 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 8865
Sled, I'd agree with that as a concept. Motivation is all about making someone think that your idea are their ideas. Certainly works well in the world of business. But let's not forget who we are talking about here. There is no more stubborn creature on this planet than the likes of a muskie fisherman!
Spelling Police
Posted 11/3/2011 2:51 PM (#523423 - in reply to #523394) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
jonnysled - 11/3/2011 1:39 PM
"all morans hate it when you call them a moron" ... j.d. salinger (of-course sans the mispelled word) LOL
In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon."
And it's au contraire.
(The Muskie Police have had their say, so it's time for the Spelling Police to chime in. )
Posted 11/3/2011 3:15 PM (#523427 - in reply to #523415) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 366
esoxaddict - 11/3/2011 2:28 PM
You can't educate the people who won't listen. So you concentrate on those who will. The good news is that the ones who won't listen to you won't listen to anyone else either, so chances are they're not out there catching many fish anyway.
No, they're plenty good at catching and killing fish, as it takes very little skill to sit on the side of the bank, put a trout on a single hook, attach a balloon to the line, and sit there all day until a muskie swallows the trout. They're just not that interested in doing it in a conservative (non-gut-hooking) way, when their way works just fine. If someone like that thinks and believes that there are plenty of muskies in the lake to go around, then the only way to teach a person like that is to have them see what happens to the population after a few years. By that point education can't really undo the damage that's been done. People still actually believe that if you just cut the line, the fish will crap out 7/0 stainless steel bait hook after their stomachs magically dissolve them.
Also, if you can find me a legion of volunteer salesmen somewhere that would be willing to come down here and unleash their amazing skills, then please let me know so we can get them down here right away.
Posted 11/3/2011 11:19 PM (#523487 - in reply to #523479) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 8865
Wow. Even people who don't like kids wouldn't wish me on them as their father. I see your point Steve, but I definitely should NOT have children! I guarantee you they would not be well adjusted.
Posted 11/3/2011 11:43 PM (#523492 - in reply to #521426) Subject: Re: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 136
Location: Dane Country
Great Video. Teach them when they are young. When you gave him the drag rope i love the look, hey what's this for??? Nice doe I'll be by for some sausage.
Posted 11/8/2011 3:09 PM (#523986 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL
I was just up in the Northwoods getting some late season Muskie fishing in before I have to call it good for the year. WORK!!!
We were fishing a lake with a bar next to the ramp, we have used this ramp several times in the past and always enjoyed a bowl of chili and a beer at the bar so we could warm up during a mid day break. Some very nice and friendly folks that run this place. This time about 4 older guys were having a smoke outside as we were pulling the boat out, asking how we did. We said we got a few and had a good time, they asked us if we got anymore if we would poke their eyes out since they were convinced that the Muskies are eating all their pan fish and Walleye. There was nothing I could say to change their mindset!!! These were the same guys we saw throwing everything in their livewell earlier in the day including a small mouth.. I'm certain if any muskie were to be found floating on that lake it was likley blinded as well.
First trime for everything i guess...
addict
Posted 11/12/2011 10:44 PM (#524449 - in reply to #521426) Subject: RE: Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
We should outlaw muskies eating flicker shads, husky jerks and crawler harneses in springtime.......
Live Bait......lots of floaters!!!
