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Posts: 15
| This is my first question on this forum and I am new to bait building,also bear with my typeing and spelling for I am a retiered welder/fitter, not to good at the key board stuff but good with my hands. I have maade over 100 turkey box and pot calls in the last 20 years and gave them all away so this bait building will be a hobby for me. For I would rather be out hunting and fishing and not married to a paint both.Thanks for all of you that do though. I whaant to make some wiley style baits to troll on Lake Chautaugua NY.and my home town res. Kinzua. I know from my call makeing there is a lot of different kinds of ceder and other woods so what would you other baitmakers recommend. Also what to seal the wood with,basepaint,paint.clear coat or epoxy of some type. Does it need belly weight? I do have a Paasche single action airbrush. All the help A to Z you might say I can use. I have a wood lathe also. I have made a dozen or so of baits none jointed,top water props, jerks and cranks. When I gave my turkey calls to some one I always feild tested it by calling in a long beard or a kill with it. Iknow I cant do that with my baits but it would be nice to make s ome beautifull baits you folks do. Thank you. Zack I hope I here from you as Capt. Larry turned me on to your baits. Very Very nice. Thanks again for some help. |
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Posts: 184
| Lots of us that make a few baits do somethings the same and lots of us do things differently so this is all my opinion. As for wood, most people will agree that cedar is a good wood to use and since you like your Wiley's you might want to look at it. After the body/profile is cut, sanded and lip slot cut- most of us use some sort of sealer to soak into the bait after we drill our holes for screw eyes and other such accessories. Lots of people use Minwax Sanding Sealer and you can get that at most stores and is likely the most popluar. I have tried a few different ones from Minwax to General Finishes. Over the past month I have been trying out the Minwax Wood Hardener/ Sealer in the metal bottle and think its good stuff but the jury is still out on it. After the sealing step the wood grain will raise so we need to sand again to smooth it out, another coat or two of sealer and let it dry. After applying the sealer, I personally lay a coat of 2 part clear coat over this sealed blank. Some guys prime at this step but its up to you here? I like doing a clear coat b/c it gives me a smooth surface to paint on and think it makes the plug a bit tougher in the long run. Next step after priming is painting. You should be fine with your airbrush as long as you find a decent air pressure to work with and making sure you have an airtrap set-up. After painting up that bait- you have to choose one of the many clear coats out there. Lots of products from E-tex, Nu Lustre, Devcon, automotive 2 part clear coats to even building up layers of lacquer work for people and everyone has their favorite. After I do 2 clear coats on the painted bait I assemble the hardware, epoxy them into the baits and do its last of 3 clear coats (actually a total of 4 on every bait since one is under the paint). Amount of clear coats are dependent on the size and style of bait you decide to make. It would be really easy to make a Wiley's copy too heavy in this exact process I do so its something to think about. With the style of baits I make the most of, the extra clear coats don't seem to negatively effect them.
I am sure I missed somethings and like I said- we all do it differently as there are a 100 ways to make a plug. As for baits needing weight to run good? It is totally dependent on the style of bait and the lip that is put on it. Wiley's and similar plugs usually do best without any added weight added. Baits like the shad style ones I do the most of do better with some weight IMO. Just gotta try it out and make adjustments, I am still doing that, lol. Where and how you weight them also effects the bait's performance. I personally weight them length wise (horizontally) in the belly of the bait making it belly heavy and a bit nose heavy. Baits like the Tuffs are weighted straight up the gut vertically so there are different ways you can weight them.
As I said- lots can be written about this and everyone has their own way of doing things. This seems to do okay for me but try everything and decide what works for you. Best luck and hopefully I will see you out on the water once the bite gets better! Take care and have fun with your new hobby!
Edited by zach2626 8/1/2011 6:50 PM
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Posts: 15
| Thanks Zack for the help. I was afraid maybe I said somethink wrong in my first post for You are the only reply so for. I like all Musky baits but the wooden ones are me as I grew up in the creek chub pikie time. I bought the last two of your baits at happy hooker that were in the pearch color patteren. they ran beautifull. they were the but shakers for they were out the others. I am new to the musky hunting scene with only 7 years under my belt. You will see me on the water someday at Chautauqua,I be the oldman,ugly boat and with a great dog. I will become a good bait maker and a good contibuter to this site,That I promise,Thanks again. Don. |
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Posts: 184
| I hope some other people offer some advice also. Thanks for picking up the baits! I know The Hooker has been out for awhile and will try to get more in the shop soon. Like I said earlier- best luck in this crazy bait making world! |
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Posts: 73
Location: Tennessee | I make a few baits. I use all cedar (Eastern Red) because it is everywhere here and I get it free or nearly. I love the old baits and that is one reason I make these. I can make molds and cast any of them in resin but don't. Like Zach said there are so many ways to make a lure that I bet no 2 of us do it the same. I never put a clear on before paint although I like the look it gives. Might need to try that. I only tail weight lures for WTD but yes you need to belly weight some and it depends on so many things I can't believe there is a way to tell you how. I change and find new ways to do things all the time.
I would suggest a good double action brush, moisture trap and pressure regulator to paint with. Makes a big difference. I use a Passche VL myself. It has been around for years and chugs right along. Most folks are using Envirotex for a finish it seems and I love it. This requires building a spinner to keep the lures turning for around 10 hours. Look that up on youtube.
Having said all that I do make mostly bass lures but several of the guys here have bought some of my designs which makes a builder feel great. Don't feel bad about the lack of response most posts get a lot of views but not many replies. Hope my 2 cents helps. |
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Posts: 41
| Hiya Muskyspit! I got hooked on pikie minnows as a kid on Chautauqua too. I still have some old wood pikies I bought with my lawn mowing money at a hardware store in Lakewood toward the end of the time they were being made. My favorite lure.
Cedar is a very good wood to use for making fishing plugs. There are several different types of cedar. They all share fairly similar properties. Here's a list of the various types off the top of my head, there may be more~
Northern white
Western red
Eastern red
Atlantic white
Incense
Alaskan yellow
South American
Spanish
Port Orford
Cedar is a very popular wood used in many products, some very specialized like Spanish cedar for cigar boxes and red cedar for bath tubs in Japan. This can drive up the price and availability of certain types in the market.
The Creek Chub Bait Co. used western red cedar for its plugs for the most part but not exclusively. They turned out plenty in white cedar too. I've got old pikies in red, white and what is apparently incense aromatic cedar. They were one of the biggest producers of fishing plugs throughout most of the 20th century and were aggressively marketed nationwide and overseas. In an industrial setting with constant obligations to deliver a finished product to the market and relying on continually sourcing a natural raw material substitutions were made where necessary. Mainly though, western red cedar was preferred. Heddon at the peak of their wooden fishing plug production in the late 50's was shipping 15,000 lures every day. Costs were rising and the advancements of plastic were happening rapidly as suitable wood for production was becoming constantly harder to obtain and more expensive. Both Creek Chub and Heddon began marketing plastic lures while scaling back on wooden lure production.
I like to refer to wooden muskie fishing lures as "plugs" because that's what they were called when I was a kid growing up by the old timers I learned from. Even into the 80's when plastic lures were everywhere a lot of people still cited the difference and referred to the woodies as "plugs" but called plastics "lures". The term "crankbait" did not arise until Bassmasters arrived on the scene and quickly educated the entire country that bass could not possibly be caught on live bait and introduced us all to an entirely new vocabulary.
"Crappie" is another one of those newer terms that came with that nationwide wave. Around Chautauqua a lot of us still call them what the old timers always did, "calico bass". Anyway, back to the wood.
Cedar is good for fishing plugs because of its high buoyancy factor, tight grain and fairly high resistance to absorbing water along with its relative ease of cutting and shaping. You want quarter sawn, not flat sawn or rift sawn, no matter what type of wood you choose to use. Avoid heartwood, no matter what species. There are others types that work well too like basswood, larch, poplar, sassafras and locust. All will work well but western red cedar is tops for plugs.
Rapala has made quite a name for itself too, using balsa. They use a very specific type of hard balsa which is common in Finland where they are located so they have a virtual monopoly on that particular type of wood. It is extremely buoyant and makes a very lively lure. You can obtain it here mostly through the hobby market but it is expensive. All of the red cedars shot up in price dramatically in the 80's due to the Japanese aggressively pursuing that market internationally for their home bath industry after exhausting their domestic supply.
Hope this helps, Muskyspit. Maybe I'll see you out there on Chautauqua sometime. I've got a crappy old boat too with a '54 Evinrude on the back and a very friendly gray & white pit bull named Skye that loves the water. (on other forums I go by "Stinky Finger")
Edited by Lunge Master 8/2/2011 12:56 AM
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Posts: 184
| Hey- whats up Stinky? Stinky knows his stuff and has been around our area a long time. You two don't live that far from each other! |
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Posts: 1529
| hi. welcome to the world of sawdust and painted fingers.
we use western red cedar.
its excellent for carving. try to stay away from hardwoods. they shed paint in a watery atmosphere. we use lacquer sanding sealers, lacquer primers. epoxy finish coats.
try to attack the project a step at a time. normally theres over 20 steps to a wooden crank. feel free to pm me if you need any specfics. |
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Posts: 15
| Thanks for the help Ghost I have barbaque rotator I guess I could make a spinner.I will get a double action brush and reg. witha trap. |
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Posts: 15
| Thanks Stinky ,Ya my dog is a Springer and name is Babe. My motor is a Big Twin 40hp. evinrude 1966, a real classic starts every time. I started lawn mowing at 10 cents a hr. so it took me a couple of lawns to buy one.Yes the good simple life back then and gas was 25cents a gal. I can still hear my dad swearing when the plugs went to plastic. Thanks for the help on will lok for you on the water. |
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Posts: 73
Location: Tennessee | That is what I used for mine and it works great. If I did it again I would change some things but it was my first try. But hey it's mine and the spinner police haven't shown up telling me it is wrong  Let me try to find a pic and attach it.
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 spinner - Copy.JPG (99KB - 240 downloads)
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Posts: 15
| Hey Ghost that is great looks likes what this old welder/fitter would fabricate. I sure appreciate the feed back and help Guys. I went back and read all the back forums inthe basement baits and learned a heck of a lot. I will still ask for advice when I run into a problem though,even thought i type with one finger,two at the most.Oh what a hoot! It is raining fairly good her today so hopefully it will get the water temps back down to get out there and drag some baits.,specialy yours Zack I only got to use them a few hrs so for. By the way where can I get hooks like that? You know you guys and girls that I showed some of the baits I made and most go wow! Then I pull one out of the bag that is on your guys and girls level and they go silent. I say now that is where I want to be. Got to get busy and finish putting my chestnut trim in my house i am rentovating. Yes real chestnut. I love beautifull wood. Watch for a few done natural in sone fancy pieces I have saved. Thanks Babe and Don. Babe is my dog and fishing partner. All three of the wifes are gone now,not the way it sounds. Oh what a hoot! |
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| Western red- stay away from Hardwoods.
Funny- I seek out and prefer heartwood for my personal baits. Something about it that just seems to catch fish.
Joe
Trueglide |
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Posts: 216
Location: Middletown, Ohio | Here's a couple more websites you may want to check out, they were very helpfull for me.
http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?
http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html
Mark |
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Posts: 908
Location: South-Central PA | Muskyspit,
I like to use eastern red cedar because it works very well and is easy to get. I seal my baits with sanding sealer after I drill out the holes in the belly for the ballast weights. I would think that most lures require ballast weight. After I have the weights glued in, I install the screw eyes, paint the bait white, and add one coat of clear epoxy to give me a smooth base to paint on. Then, I do my paint scheme and finish with a few coats of epoxy. I install the diving lip before the last two coats of epoxy.
jeremy
muskyspit - 8/1/2011 2:01 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am new to bait building,also bear with my typeing and spelling for I am a retiered welder/fitter, not to good at the key board stuff but good with my hands. I have maade over 100 turkey box and pot calls in the last 20 years and gave them all away so this bait building will be a hobby for me. For I would rather be out hunting and fishing and not married to a paint both.Thanks for all of you that do though. I whaant to make some wiley style baits to troll on Lake Chautaugua NY.and my home town res. Kinzua. I know from my call makeing there is a lot of different kinds of ceder and other woods so what would you other baitmakers recommend. Also what to seal the wood with,basepaint,paint.clear coat or epoxy of some type. Does it need belly weight? I do have a Paasche single action airbrush. All the help A to Z you might say I can use. I have a wood lathe also. I have made a dozen or so of baits none jointed,top water props, jerks and cranks. When I gave my turkey calls to some one I always feild tested it by calling in a long beard or a kill with it. Iknow I cant do that with my baits but it would be nice to make s ome beautifull baits you folks do. Thank you. Zack I hope I here from you as Capt. Larry turned me on to your baits. Very Very nice. Thanks again for some help. |
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Posts: 15
| Hay Thanks for the help ,Idont know if eastern ceder is different from western,but I whent to Ace hardware and had them order me a 2by6 of the red western. I weeent to lowes and all they had was 1by's witch is 3/4" thick only.I guess there must be a good place online somewhere to get it if i did some loking. I painted a couple of baits with the sealer then primed then a pearch color pattern,next was a coat of ETex Lite,all I could find in my town, that did fish eye a little even though I wiped it down with Alchohol. Then I painted a little Gold color over that and no heading to the shop to put another coat of Etex lite on it. I am useing the acrylic stuff from Walmart. I mixed some glitter in with Etex,before I put in on the bait. Anyone feal free to jump in here and give me what I need to know or use. Thanks All of you for the help and encouraagement you have given me. Whoo This typeing and spelling is crazy to say the least for this old buck. Speaking of bucks I pulled my Trail cams in this mourning and put a smile on my face just like a 50plus lunge whould. Thanks Don and Babe. |
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Posts: 73
Location: Tennessee | If you want some Eastern cedar to use I can fix you up. Just send me a PM and I will give you my # so we can talk. I have access to cedar that is aged and have several hundred feet worth in the shed. |
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Posts: 908
Location: South-Central PA | Can't wait to see some pictures! (of the lures and deer!!!) I just got a nice 8 on one of my cameras...along with a bear.
jeremy |
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Posts: 15
| I will send you a test E mail and if works I will get the pics of deer and bear to you. I am a old trapper and haave a scent I made that stops deer in there tracks and drives bears crazy. |
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