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Location: Maplewood, MN | with the weather so hot I've hung up the musky sticks for a while and headin for smallies tonight. How has everyone else been doing on different species? |
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Location: South-Central VA | Killing the bass right now!
jeremy |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Keep in mind you can kill other species as well in hot temps.  |
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| CiscoKid - 7/20/2011 1:21 PM
Keep in mind you can kill other species as well in hot temps. :o
Usually that's the point when fishing other species. Food for the frying pan. 
Walleye bite is improving now that the mayflies are done. Caught our limit (2 each) Monday night drifting harnesses across 15' flats adjacent to deep water.
Edited by MartinTD 7/20/2011 1:49 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bass are no where near as susceptible to 80 degree temps as muskies. Plenty of research by FLW Bass alone to back it up. |
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| CiscoKid - 7/20/2011 1:21 PM
Keep in mind you can kill other species as well in hot temps. :o
Great time for asian carpin'! |
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| killing the ants on the bike trails Im doing about 120 miles a week mountain biking killing my teeth too with 2 64 oz mugs of mountain dew everyday |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Steve, I hate to argue this but I will.
I think the key is NOT AS SUSCEPTABLE. However, they are still susceptible. Just like muskies there is often times a lower amount of oxygen available with high water temps. I won’t preach on D.O. other than I found bass need about the same amount as muskies which is 5ppm (or whatever the scale is).
Steve any links to those studies? I would like to read up on them. The little bit I have found thus far relates to tournament fishing which adds a bit more undo stress onto a fish compared to just C&R right away. However the ones I did find indicated as water temps rose, so did bass mortality immediately (well during that day), and delayed (up to 6 days later).
If you are going to eat them have at it.
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Location: Not where I wanna be! | Bass are fine until the water gets to around the mid to upper 90s, then its time to consider leaving them be. However, 90% of the upper midwest will never see water temps like that... I fish a lot of bass tournaments and box our fish in heat like this with little to no problem, in fact we put ice in the livewells and keep the recirulators going full time and have had a very successful release rates. I fish the same lakes for fun throughout the week and see no delayed mortality.
Most studies show that the warm water temps don't affect the fish in livewells as much as the increased ammonium levels in livewells during warmer weather. When in the box the fish defecate often and that makes the water conditions poor, which only gets worse with warmer water temps. To avoid that, ice and constant fresh water is the ticket.
Bass are warm water fish and we will most likely never see too warm of water temps in the upper midwest to NOT fish for them...
Edited by THA4 7/20/2011 6:18 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | This is all I have been able to find, or many similar to it: http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/fisheries/info_sheets/cr_mortali...
http://www.texs.com/bass_mortality_study/study.htm
However, upon searching I did run across this interesting paper. It talks about more than trout as the title may suggest. Casselman is the author.
http://www.wildtroutstreams.com/CatchRelease/catch_and_release_revi...
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Location: Perryville, MO | Yeah...I may take a beating here but I think Travis has a fair point .
Last year about this time my fishing buddy was on the Ohio river during the Golconda tourney. He took a whole lot of pictures of "bellied-up" bass after the weigh-in as he was sitting on the river in his boat (I'll see if he's still got them and post if it's necessary "evidence" to what I'm suggesting...but would rather not lest they get used for an unsavory purpose). Most disturbing was the fact that two of the "professionals" were laughing about the situation (he had a picture of that as well, in fact one of the guys was clearly pointing at a soon-to-be dead fish with a smile). He noted in the neighborhood of 30 fish that he could see struggling on the surface. Some had already completely expired. Best guess would be the rest were on their way to the same fate, not to mention the untold others that would eventually suffer the same but had enough in them to get below the surface.
I live in SE Missouri and fish Southern IL primarily. We do in fact see temps in the low to mid 90 range rather regularly this time of year. I grew up and still fish largemouth quite a bit. My experience is that high temps (low oxygen) will still kill even this hardy fish. Not as susceptible...true. But let's not assume (or even take only what we want to hear from solid studies) that high temps and excertion in low oxgenated water (apparently even a river) won't kill 'em.
My buddy didn't make a big deal over the situation. He's no "tree-hugger" or crusader. But it was a disturbing scene for anyone who loves the resource. I post this here because the likelyhood of someone using it for an animal rights (oxymoron in itself) agenda is pretty low. I/he has no desire to see tournaments recieve negative attention over this unfortunate situation and the lack of decency on the part of two anglers.
While I suspect that their exists some solid research that a fishery isn't significantly harmed by tourneys in hot weather conditions, I can't help to wonder if some of that isn't self-benefitting. Bass fishing isn't muskie fishing in many ways. Different "animals" for sure. Not only the quarry but also the trappings, i.e. money, big money. So it just seems a little too benefitting to me that Steve mentions studies undertaken by those that directly benefit from large tourney purses. Maybe I misunderstood. Like I said, I'm sure there is some solid research, but my experiences and the experiences of others say that those who truly love the resource might use better judgment or at least not kid themselves that every fish they release in a hot water situation has a great chance of surving. Of course there exists an untold number of vairiables. Including the fact that bass are plentiful, and in many systems even big bass.
I have no major issue with someone practicing C&R in a hot water situation, but that guy better then take it easy about his preaching to others on his standard of ethics. A little consistency goes a long way with me. Just depends on where you are on that scale, that's all. Further, I'd like to still trust the DNR biologists (maybe a little naive with all the politics involved) as to what will and will not harm a particular fishery. The reality is that on certain fisheries some attrition is likely beneficial.
I tend to leave them alone if/when we move into the mid 90 range. Maybe its for their benefit, maybe just my own as it gets hard to be out there. Thankfully I got so many "honey-do's" (and a frezzer full of 'gills) that I'm just thinking about October when I can return to chasing ski's.
Let the beatings begin for agreeing with Travis.  |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | Here another point that you failed see. The folks on this board are NOT keeping the fish in the livewell unless they are keeping them to eat. Makes a real big difference if you release fish right away. |
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Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana | Fact is there are waaaayy more bass in a lake than there are muskies....so if a couple die it's not going to effect the fishery near as much as fishing for muskies in hot water. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | hawkeye9 - 7/21/2011 9:36 AM
I have no major issue with someone practicing C&R in a hot water situation, but that guy better then take it easy about his preaching to others on his standard of ethics. A little consistency goes a long way with me. Just depends on where you are on that scale, that's all.
This is the reason I challenged the thread. I am not a tree hugger, but if you preach about not fishing muskies in hot weather then you should also follow those same rules for all fish.
I looked more last night, and still can't come across any articles or research as Steve and THA4 mentioned. I could use some help fellas. |
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| its just the stress on the fish and taking off their slime...u touch a bass all over its going to leave marks or kill it the same it will with a musky or any other fish... some fish are a little hardier than others usually the bigger the fish the less it can take just like people ... chubby pple dont take as well to stress as skinny pple usually haha |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Billy B - 7/21/2011 10:14 AM
Fact is there are waaaayy more bass in a lake than there are muskies....so if a couple die it's not going to effect the fishery near as much as fishing for muskies in hot water.
It sure will make a difference if you are a good bass angler, and catch trophy bass. A trophy out of a system is a trophy out of a system. Shouldn’t matter if it is a Musky, Bass, or a Bluegill. Being ok to kill fish just because there are more of them is a pretty poor way to treat a resource. If you expect anglers of other species to respect muskies the way you do, you should probably respect those other species the way they do.
Again this all goes back to if you are one that preaches not fishing for muskies in hot water. If you don’t preach it and don’t follow it then it doesn’t bother me one bit if you target bass in hot water temps.
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 10:45 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | you're an entertaining sort travis ...
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I said Bass are far more able to handle 80 degree range temps than Muskies, and they are. A member of the sunfish family, they do much better in higher temperatures than Pike and Muskies do.
Listing a transport tournament as an example isn't even on the same planet as fishing bass as we do. I'm catching most of the Bass we are boating right now out of shallow water, pitching surface slop lures and spinnerbaits. The battle is usually way less than a minute, too. And the fish fortunate enough not to end up in the frying pan are released back into the same depth water they are caught from and never livewelled.
Bass are native to and survive well in systems that would not support muskies at all. OFM is also covering the FLW Bass and BASS Elite and Post Season events across the south, and the account above is an anomaly, not even a sort of almost once in awhile occurrence. The telling of it is a bit off too, painting Bass Pros with a VERY unfair broad stroke. All we've met were quite conscious of displaying a strong conservation ethic.
I'll fish bass in 80 degrees. I won't fish anything except gills I want to eat in 90 degrees or warmer up here, but that ain't what we were talking about...is it.
Muskies are not Bass, and Bass are not Walleyes.
Most of the studies showed that tournament delayed mortality was less of an issue in all species if the fish are not penned, and are cared for in the process of the weigh in when talking Bass. Many states now won't allow a transport/release Walleye event in summer temp warm water, shutting off Walleye tournaments other than AIM during that timeframe. AIM has catch, photo, immediate release, and even Iowa allowed a summer tournament for them this year.
Under Travis's deal, the South would have to shut down all angling in mid April through late September to protect the resource. Fishing there's pretty darn good, pressure is immense, and summer bassin' is a popular and far less harmful to the resource activity than is being portrayed here.
As an aside, I didn't fish league this Tuesday because I felt temps were too high on Boom for Muskies. I'll not fish Muskies until temps get below the 80's again. And...I'm not 'preaching' anything, I'm just personally following what I've been told by multiple fisheries biologist types to be sound conservation practices. Not one has advised me to avoid bassin' in 80 degree water. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Sled as your signature suggests I am just trying to keep it real. Lot of guys have an attitude that you can’t harm a musky, but who gives a rats tail about the rest of the fish.
Steve, I pre-cursed my links with knowing it was a tournament setting for the research. I also stated that is all I could find. I am asking for help in pointing me to the research that FLW BASS did to back it up. I would like to learn, and have a constructive discussion on the topic.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don't have the time right now, I'm at the FLW Walleye Tour event on Bay of green Bay out of Oconto and am buried until weigh in, and then until about 10 PM. Much of what I have learned came from books that were written to be applied to fisheries biology ed. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | please don't use me as your excuse ... you're doin' a fine job on your own. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | sworrall - 7/21/2011 10:51 AM
Many states now won't allow a transport/release event in warm water, shutting off Walleye tournaments other than AIM. AIM has catch, photo, immediate release, and even Iowa allowed a summer tournament for them this year.
sworrall - 7/21/2011 11:09 AM
Don't have the time right now, I'm at the FLW Walleye Tour event on Bay of green Bay out of Oconto and am buried until weigh in, and then until about 10 PM. Much of what I have learned came from books that were written to be applied to fisheries biology ed.
Apparently the water isn't considered too warm yet? I know a few years back when the FLW was in town , and out of the fox River, there were a pile of fish that died due to warm temps.
Keep in mind Steve et al I did not mention what temp you shouldn’t be fishing bass or any other species. Take a look at my first post. All I am saying is it isn’t necessarily the right thing to do to target other species just because you have heard on here and other sites that you shouldn’t target muskies once the temps near 80°.
I would like to know what the guideline is for bass, or any other species for that matter.
From the link I posted above by Casselman: “Mortality has also been found to increase with water temperature in smallmouth bass (Cooke and Hogle, 2000), largemouth bass (Gustaveson et al., 1991; Meals and Miranda, 1994) and striped bass (Nelson, 1998).”
Problem is at what temps are we talking about?
Steve whenever you get a chance I would be interested in knowing what your books say as far as a temp we shouldn't be targetting them at. Whether you post it here, pm me, or email is fine. I sense most are taking my tone incorrectly, and some just drive to cause problems.
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 11:27 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Apparently not.
I'd like all tournaments to go to Paul Hartman's CPR...AIM did. That said, the numbers the tournament guys are responsible for are, according to my experience working with Walleye tournaments for over 30 years, deemed 'insignificant' as an impact on the overall population.
That said, FLW does a good job keeping the fish alive the anglers are successful bringing in kickin', take a look at their weigh tanks, in water weigh in, and state of the art release boat. |
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Location: Cedar Falls, IA. | I have fished a ton of farm ponds and private quarries in the dead of summer. One quarry in particular we fish 2-3 times a week and it is nothing to have 40 to 50 fish days between me and my brother. The only fish that die on us are the ones we keep for the quarry owner if he feels like a few bass for his freezer. That is enough scientific research for me to conclude that bass fair quite well in water temps above 80 degrees.
The OP said nothing about fishing a tourney.
Edited by MikeCf 7/21/2011 11:57 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | And, by the way, Bass fishing in Oneida County is off the charts good.
Bluegill fishing has even been better. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Steve, I assume Largemouth Bass (black bass) can handle higher temps than smallies. Any idea how much more, or at what temp we shouldn't target smallies? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i been slaughtering the bass all summer long. they didn't like the cool-down a couple weeks ago and went awol for a couple days, but the action has been red-hot on the dock and boat-house fishing with wacky and texas-rigged worms, lizzards and tubes. deep water holes near rock weed combo have always held big largemouth bass on the chain ... find em and fish them finesse-style with soft-plastics.
bass = swimming turtle ... durable sob's that if allowed, will dominate ... they eat like gils and should be harvested without worrying about any ill-effect.
when we lived in tennessee we fished em with black-lights and fluoro line at night (full line-up of products for summer hot-weather night fishing) ... beating the heat has never been about the fish, but the fisherman.
Northern Wisconsin Bass Fishing is absolutely fantastic and if you haven't/don't do much of it you might be surprised at just how much fun and how much success you'll find ... |
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| In our farm pond the LM bass are in 9" of water right now with surface temps over 85 (its bath water).....they thrive in "hot" water. LM Bass are pretty hard to kill. No scentific study need in a 2 acre pond - you could see the fish if they died after catching. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Not sure where the facts in this article came from, but it does list the high end range for largemouth bass.
http://www.bassfishingandcatching.com/largemouth-bass-habitat.html |
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Location: Ames, Iowa | Almost of us muskie guys fish in northern waters, meaning that the temps we are fishing are cooler- that's a fact. Southern Missouri, Illinois, Indiana that have been brought up are another story. If you fish in southern waters that are warmer, you will have a longer muskie layoff. That's a fact. Haven't seen surface temps past 84 degrees on Leech or any other Minnesota, Canada lake during my frequent May thru October trips there for the past 20 years. Like most muskie anglers, when it is over 80, I am after perch, bass, walleyes, northerns- fish that can handle those temps better that masquinongy. There is no issue to debate here.
"Steve, I assume Largemouth Bass (black bass) can handle higher temps than smallies"
Cisco- Now it sounds like you have it. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | DJ, I question the smallie deal as it is a big thing in northern WI. Just can't assume that because someone says they are bass fishing it is for largmouth.
I believe pike cannot handle higher temps than musky. At least it is a known fact they prefer cooler temps, and thus why the large pike are caught in the summer near the thermocline. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 7/21/2011 1:00 PM
it is a big thing in northern WI.
Wow ... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 7/21/2011 1:05 PM
CiscoKid - 7/21/2011 1:00 PM
it is a big thing in northern WI.
Wow ...
You say it's not? Lots of guys go up there that target them. And why shouldn't they as it is great fishing. Much better than the largemouth fishing if you ask me. |
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Location: Perryville, MO | A couple of things from my end here and then I'll leave the argument. First bass are alot heartier as I said and it would take a lot of mortality in a system to lead to significant harm. Also, I was actually referencing 90 degree temps. I also said that mid 90's is where I start to wonder a bit about the harm that I'm doing. On Kinkaid most of the guys I know stop at 80 for 'skis. I normally stop before then but that has to do with other pursuits ('gills and the like...plus the Fall is always far better for me).
I would disagree with Travis that the fish should be treated equally (I'm not sure that's what he meant but that how I read it...consistent in our ethics I would agree...but that would be different for how we handle different species). They are clearly different and so different standards of protection apply. What it takes to grow trophy muskie and numbers of them are far different then plentiful black bass and even trophy specimens (especially the further South you go).
It was a good point raised on transport versus immediate release. No question about that...there's a world of difference. But as was mentioned they are in "state-of-art" livewells - what some have suggested as a better environment for the fish than the lake itself. Even yet, it makes a big difference.
Most curious to me was Steve's response that it was an unfair representation of the tourney scene. I think I was gracious to that fact. I mentioned that this was two anglers. Not the whole field. Two anglers who I bet if their names were given would be deeply embarrassed and more than apologetic and likely was not their normal way of going about things. Perhaps they themselves are champions of conservation, but just had a lapse of judgment. I'll grant that they may have just had a bad day. We all do things that are out of character on occiasion. I don't think my "telling of it" is all that bad. Look again, and tell me if I'm wrong. It's just an unfortunate situation and I think that struck a chord with you, Steve, because you know and repect so many of these guys who are good for the resource. I agree that it's disappointing to learn (it was for me) but I'm not so sure I attempted to color the whole conversation with these guys being bad for what they regularly do. As you well know, most of the guys frequenting M1 have the power of discernment. We're talking to fellow angers here, not the genral public. Perhaps the worry is for the guy who trolls (maybe you are aware that that is a more common experience than I'm aware...if that's the case than I would urge you to use your own discernment and pull my orginal response or at least those parts that you deem harmful...I certainly would take no offense if that's the reason behind it).Again I have no desire whatsoever to taint the image of bass professionals or tournament fishing. But again, I think my "telling" was pretty fair.
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| It's more of an issue of dissolved oxygen than water temps. Also, and I only speak for my home waters of N. IL, but the strain of fish that we have (Ohio) was chosen for it's warm water tolerance. These fish here are acclimated to war water, and in fact, they don't really become aggressive until high 70's-low 80's. Fishing in 82 water does not worry me here, especially with the current and oxygen levels. Also, it comes down to handling, and most fish are never taken out of the water. In areas such as WI and MN were water temps are not normally this high, I absolutely agree that fishing should stop at 80, because the fish just aren't used to it. I personally believe the stop level where I'm at is 85. The fish are still aggressive, but a line has to be drawn. Plus, who wants to fish in that heat? |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | MuskyStalker - 7/21/2011 1:23 PM
It's more of an issue of dissolved oxygen than water temps.
I would agree, but they both tend to go hand in hand.
Let me ask this. Has anyone thought of what temps we should stop persuing other fish at prior to this thread? I doubt it. Hopefully I made some of you think about it. I am glad to see a few have thought about it.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Let me ask this. Has anyone thought of what temps we should stop persuing other fish at prior to this thread? I doubt it. '
I don't. it's a rare deal up here where we have to worry about Muskies...since 1995 it hasn't been this hot this long...and when it IS this hot, I fish bass because I know that's not an issue. I'm sure not everyone shares my interest in Bass, but those who do and are serious about the sport know as much about Bass as we might about muskies.
That said, this is a great discussion and a welcome one considering the heat we've had.
Sled, leave those Bass alone...they eat Muskies, and Muskies eat all your Perch.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | when did we all of a sudden have a water temp. smallie problem ... ?? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | stop fishin' bass when you can't stand being out there for the heat (you that is). then, go to bps and get some gunnal-mounted black lights and fluorescent line and go texas and carolina riggin' at night. it's a blast ... you can see better than in the daytime and when your line swims off ... reel down and give 'em the mustard. smallies and largemouth alike ....
go to lake fork or sam rayburn on a nice texas day in june or july for lm bass, or to the pickwick dam for some hot summer smallies ... stop at the boatel and say hello to the old guy wearin' the Tennessee Vols hat. you ain't seen hot or hot water til you go bass fishin in the south. this heat wave is an everyday, every summer reality ... 11 years in that hell-hole called the south and precisely why i moved to the northwoods.
bass fish all summer long with reckless abandon boys and girls ... nothing to see here
Edited by jonnysled 7/21/2011 1:53 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 7/21/2011 1:45 PM
when did we all of a sudden have a water temp. smallie problem ... ??
Not sure as I can’t get any info on when it is a problem.
I guess if you never think about it, then it is never a problem. So if I don’t think about 80° being bad for muskies I guess it isn’t.
I see I am getting nowhere…and thus am bowing out of this well thought out and research backed discussion.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | When I get some time I'll post a bunch of information. The weigh in beckons... |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 7/21/2011 1:00 PM
DJ, I question the smallie deal as it is a big thing in northern WI.
i believe the quote came from your research laboratory Travis |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 7/21/2011 2:04 PM
CiscoKid - 7/21/2011 1:00 PM
DJ, I question the smallie deal as it is a big thing in northern WI.
i believe the quote came from your research laboratory Travis
The "big thing in northern WI" comment was directed at fishing for smallies up there, not referring to smallies croaking in warm water temps. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 7/21/2011 1:59 PM
…and thus am bowing out
yah |
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| Travis-
How many follows do you typically get from bass when the water temperature is this high? |
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Location: Columbus, Georgia | MuskieFever simply asked if guys were catching Bass. What's up with all of the point-counter-point about the morality of continuing to fish for Bass if one has chosen to give the Muskies a break?
Muskies are at the top of the food chain. Their number are the smallest out there. How many Lions are out on the African plains compared to Gazelle, Springbok, Zebras, etc.. It's the same deal. So if we are trying to preserve the lion population ... and a guy states that we should approach hunting Gazelles in the same manner ... this position is false and untenable. The ratio of Gazelles to Lions (maybe hundreds or even thousands-to-one).
Am I missing something?
Edited by cjrich 7/21/2011 2:51 PM
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Location: Not where I wanna be! | jonnysled - 7/21/2011 1:50 PM
bass fish all summer long with reckless abandon boys and girls ... nothing to see here
:D
YEP |
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| All the bass tournament guys want you to believe that they never kill any bass...well, that is just as foolish as the muskie guy thinking he never kills any fish.
There has been some research done on LMB and SMB on the Mississippi (where a lot of tournaments take place). There, water temp wasn't the overlying factor. Largemouth bass virus (that SMB can have too) plus the high (80 degrees and up) water temps ment that 80+% of all the bass caught died within 48 hours! If your bass have LMB virus and you are catching, transporting and releasiong them...most will end up dead.
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Location: Not where I wanna be! | These two managed to survive after several hours in the box. Have been down there fishing many times since then and have not seen any floaters. Water was 85 that day... Just sayin
(Thomas Two Big Bass.jpg)
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 Thomas Two Big Bass.jpg (75KB - 176 downloads)
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I tried to stay out but couldn't.
THA4 take a look at this link if you didn't the first time.
http://www.texs.com/bass_mortality_study/study.htm
Just sayin.
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 4:57 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | cjrich - 7/21/2011 2:38 PM
MuskieFever simply asked if guys were catching Bass.
Am I missing something?
surprised you haven't seen all the bass transport tournaments they run all year in the northwoods ... travis feels compelled to teach us from his research.
how many of you put bass in your livewell all day, drive em around, take em out in a bag and weigh them ... then return em to 80degree water?? must be just you travis. you might want to change your release procedure and not pretend you're fishing a tournament in texas. |
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Location: Not where I wanna be! | I have an idea, maybe they should just shut fishing down from mid June until September.... :D
Edited by THA4 7/21/2011 5:34 PM
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Location: northern indiana | I think it should be a federal law that fishing in all 50 states should be completly illegal. =) |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 7/21/2011 5:22 PM
cjrich - 7/21/2011 2:38 PM
MuskieFever simply asked if guys were catching Bass.
Am I missing something?
surprised you haven't seen all the bass transport tournaments they run all year in the northwoods ... travis feels compelled to teach us from his research.
how many of you put bass in your livewell all day, drive em around, take em out in a bag and weigh them ... then return em to 80degree water?? must be just you travis. you might want to change your release procedure and not pretend you're fishing a tournament in texas.
Apparently THA4 does, and thus why I reposted the link.
I clearly stated all I could find was based on tournaments. Perhaps you need a lesson in reading comprehension as well Sled. I see no one posting any kind of statistical data or other supporting, or against the fishing other species in warm water. Thus I am posing the questions. Reread my first post of this thread and please tell me where I have said we shouldn't be fishing for a particular species above a particular temp. I simply stated you can kill other species in hot temps. Didn't state we were there yet. Didn't state what species.
I believe I may have even posted a link, my second to last one, which may support fishing for bass in warmer temps.
I believe this whole thread started going south after your first post when you offered no info what so ever, but rather decided to taunt me.
I anxiously await Steve's info he can supply. If anything I will learn something here. If you don't want to then I suggest you go golfing as your responses do nothing constructive.
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 6:28 PM
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| it's ok Travis, we're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you ...
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Location: Not far enough north! | Down here we have to shut down for muskies by the middle of June Every Year and Can't get back after them till the end of september. I would hate to hear the complaning if you guys had to put up with that. Would love to see the water around 80 here. Went out for white bass yesterday and water temp was 93 on an 11,000 acre lake that is 10' high so is probably closer to 15k now. This was out in the middle of the main body I imagine higher in the coves. This heat is killing me |
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| Travis, Im with you... nice to see someone out there with a little bit of a conservation mindset. Thanks for your data Travis. |
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Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | I fish about 20 tournaments a year, starting in April and ending in September. Sure, fish can die during that time frame, but deep hooked fish and fish staying in livewells that are not properly reciruclated are a far bigger issue than water temps being too hot.
It can be done..... here is one formula we follow:
http://www.thebgreat persons.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.33
Here's another good read:
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/handling_summer_bass.html
Here is an interview with Gene Gilliland who basically wrote the book on warm water bass handling
http://upload.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=2745
If you want more on Gene Gilliland, just google him. He is basically the most respected bass biologists in the industry right now.
More:
http://www.oklahomabassfishing.com/genegilliland801.html
There is a ton of other stuff out there too, but trust me handing/catching/releasing bass often throughout the summer can be done effectively with little to no delayed mortality. Muskies to Bass is apples to oranges, there is no comparison. Im not saying there is NO reason for concern on this issue, just not in the upper midwest. In Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, the Dakotas, so on and so forth there is not going to be many, if any, summer conditions where fishing for bass is unsafe the the fishery or the resource.... 80-90 degree water is perfectly safe for bass.....
Keeping them in a livewell during temps like this can be done for up to 8 hours and with a successful release.... but not by ignoring them... |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | bowhunter29 - 7/20/2011 2:10 PM
Killing the bass right now!
jeremy
I believe this first-responder was merely implying that he is catching a lot of bass right now, not literally killing them.
Edited by cjrich 7/21/2011 7:32 PM
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Location: South-Central VA | Yep, that's exactly what I was implying. Please don't drag me into the middle of this mess by misinterpreting what I said.
jeremy |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | cjrich - 7/21/2011 7:18 PM
bowhunter29 - 7/20/2011 2:10 PM
Killing the bass right now!
jeremy
I believe this first-responder was merely implying that he is catching a lot of bass right now, not literally killing them.
I didn't respond the way I did because of this post. I understood what he meant.
Thanks for the links THA4.
Here is an interesting one I found. Temp and DO is stressed, just like a lot of other publications. However, again everything is related to tournaments. Is there anything out there that is just catch and release?
Here is the link.
http://assets.espn.go.com/winnercomm/outdoors/bassmaster/pdf/Keepin...
Page 5, 6, and 27 are ones I took note of.
Gene makes mention that fish more acclimated to warmer water can handle higher water temps, and those that are acclimated to cooler temps cannot handle temps nearly as high. So theoretically could this pose a problem in the midwestern states when we hit an extreme heat wave like we did here? Is it a fair statement that midwestern bass cannot tolerate as warm of water in the midwest as the fish in the south? That's How I read it. So I am not so sure it is safe to say it is ok to angle bass in the south with 90° temps (I just chose a temp) and therefore it is safe in the midwest at the same temp (although we may never reach that).
Edited by CiscoKid 7/21/2011 8:28 PM
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Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | Tournaments are the extreme end of the spectrum therefore what you find about them should adequately represent the same questions regarding simple catch and release.
Justin made a fine point:
"in our farm pond the LM bass are in 9" of water right now with surface temps over 85 (its bath water).....they thrive in "hot" water. LM Bass are pretty hard to kill. No scentific study need in a 2 acre pond - you could see the fish if they died after catching." |
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Location: Columbus, Georgia | CiscoKid,
Well then why in the world would you take off in an entirely other direction, completely unrelated to what the man was asking about? Why not start a new post about bass mortality in summer? Isn't there a BassFIRST web site?
You jumped into a hole ... and have simply dug deeper and deeper by going into more and more minutia about the mortality of bass fishing in mid-summer. Trying to blind us a little with science?
That dog just wont' hunt.
Edited by cjrich 7/21/2011 8:33 PM
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Location: Ames, Iowa | Sled- You want to catch some nice LMBs, Leech is full of em- best kept secret on the whole lake. Almost like Mille Lacs and its smallie population. They are footballs. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | cjrich - 7/21/2011 8:21 PM
CiscoKid,
Well then why in the world would you take off in an entirely other direction, completely unrelated to what the man was asking about? Why not start a new post about bass mortality in summer if you needed the attention? Isn't there a BassFIRST web site?
You jumped into a hole ... and have simply dug deeper and deeper by going into more and more minutia about the mortality of bass fishing in mid-summer. Trying to blind us a little with science?
That dog just wont' hunt.
I brought it up to simply raise awareness that just because it isn't safe to target muskies doesn't mean every other fish swimming out there is ok to target. No body thinks twice about the "other" fish. Again we expect and want everyone to care for muskies, but it's ok for us to give a crap about the fish others pursue?
THA4, you can also find muskies swimming in 85° water. As long as the fish are not stressed and they have enough DO then they are fine. It is the angling part that adds the stress that then becomes a problem with any fish in warm water. So now take some water that may just have enough DO for the fish to be ok (again 5 ppm is lower limit) and catch them, and release them back in that water. 5 ppm is the lower limit while not stressed. Once stressed the fish require more oxygen to recoup. You are now putting a fish back into an environment that doesn't have sufficient oxygen for them.
I also grew up near a pond that we fished quite a bit. We killed some fish. They don't always float, and don't always die where you can see them. We usually found them while diving in deep water, and being freaked out by the "fuzzy stick" at the bottom of the pond. Of course as a kid we had to grab it and find out what is was, and thus found our dead fish we would have otherwise not known were there. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i know i'm impressed ...
hey dad ... let's go fishin' ... well, let's do some research first son |
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Location: Cedar Falls, IA. | Come on man...... |
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Location: Perryville, MO | Opps...
Edited by hawkeye9 7/28/2011 1:57 PM
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| if you want to catch bass on leech,,,,put on a musky size boggerman buzzbait and fish the reeds,,you could win a bass tourney fishing muskies |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | That or the Dahlberg Frog and you'll have fun all day!
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| Sled the more u post the more i like your no nonsense if your face style!B ramit |
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