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| I'm 95% sure I will be purchasing a new boat this winter. The dillema I have is whether I should wait a year in order to put the HP the boat deserves on the transom.
I'm looking at the new Crestliner Fishawk 1850 which is rated for 150HP... but scaling down to a 115 Merc or Yamaha 4-Stroke saves me about $4k.
My rule of thumb has ALWAYS been to max out the horsepower... but I'm seriously considering the 4-stroke. I am not concerned with top end speed... just the hole shot.
Of course... I could always scale back on the hull to a 1750 and max that out with the 115.
Opinions Welcomed.....
jlong
P.S. How about some votes on bunk vs. roller trailer too. | |
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| The trailer should definitely be a bunk model on that hull. Buy a good trailer, too many times the trailer becomes a 'stepchild' and gives one grief later. I would recommend Trailmaster/Vanguard.
I would not worry about hole shot and a 115, the hole shot is a function of the correct prop, not horsepower at 76% of the power curve. If top end is not a real concern, the 115 would do a great job.
I have a 225 on my Tuffy 1990 Esox Deep V, which weighs only 1400#, and the hole shot was terrible with a 25 pitch 4 blade, and really GREAT with a 23 Pitch 3 blade. The 25 was faster, but only by a couple miles an hour. | |
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| For what it’s worth, I have a 16 footer rated for 90hp. the boat weighs 750lbs. I could have put a 90hp. 2-stroke on for cheaper than the 60hp 4-stoke I went with. My deciding factors were the 60 4-stroke was quieter, it can troll or just “put” around, no oil, and like you I prefer a nice cruise instead of a white knuckle WOT. I could have put the 90 4-stroke on, but it was a little more than I wanted to spend and almost twice as heavy as the 60hp. It tops out in the mid 30’s.
Have fun
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| I guess I'm the voice against reason here! I bought a 70hp on my FishHawk 1650 because it was already on the boat, and the dealer gave me an incredible deal on it. I wanted to go 90, and now I wish I would have. Unfortunately, if you wait a season or two to upgrade the motor, the old one has depreciated so much, and the new ones likey have increased in price, so I actually would end up paying almost double to trade it up what I would have if I would have just upgraded to the 90 when I bought the boat. For me the point is irrelevent, since my brother is buying the boat from me, and is happy with the 70, but when I bought the replacement for the FishHawk I went with max hp on the new rig.
For what it's worth. Jamie Schmidt
Esoxjunkie Inc | |
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| Hi,
I''ve been boat shopping lately too. I''ve heard not to go under 75% of the maximum rated H.P. You have to decide whether you want the extra performance for the $$. Talk to the dealer, find out how the boat will perform with either motor, buy what will fit your style.
I vote for a bunk trailer too. I love being able to drive up on mine. Had a buddy with a roller trailer, it was a ***** getting his boat on it right.
Good luck,
Brian
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| Boro, 75% of 150 is 112. That would mean a 115 4-stroke would still be O.K. by your criteria. Do you agree?
O.K. the other part of my dillemma is this. My local dealer carries Yamaha, my preferred 4-stroke choice, but ONLY fits his boats with Shorelander trailers. The other dealer I am considering only carries Mercury... but is MUCH more flexible on his trailer selection.
So, I need opinions on trailers. I really don't want a Shorelander (bunk or roller) but am partial to the Yamahas. Would I be able to order a trailer from another dealer without costing me big bucks or is that too much of a hassle.
Second, Merc and Yamaha 115 4-strokes are ALMOST the same motor. Is one "better" than the other? If I go with the Merc, I can choose between Eagle and Prestige bunk trailers. Would I be making a mistake by going with the Merc just to get a "better" trailer?
Thanks guys for your input. I never knew buying a new boat could be so complicated. Wish I could afford a Ranger 619.... that would solve all my problems.
jlong
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| The Mercury will treat you very well, and is, for the time being, the same powerhead as the Yammy.
Eagle builds a VERY nice bunk trailer, and is comparable to the Vanguard.
Even Keel Marine, In Rockford, IL, handles Mercury,Yamaha,Heritage trailers, and has access to Vanguard and Eagle. He is a pretty big crestliner dealer, give John Tibbet a call there and ask him the same questions. He is a great guy, and will help! | |
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| My family and I bought our Crestliner from Even Keel Marine. John is a very knowledgable person and easy to talk to. I am sure he will be able to answer any of your questions. We had a problem with our trailer and he sent us the new part within a few days. | |
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| Jason, You are going through the exact same problem I was going through. Here is what I did and take it for what it is worth. If speed is not a factor which is not for me, I would check into the Crestliner with a tiller. That would save money and save you a lot of room. I just went from a Lund Angler console to a 1760 Esox tiller to save room and I do not need the steering wheel. I looked at every boat possible and went with the tiller becasue I do not need to go 55 MPH. It would be nice but not needed. Did you check the prices on the new 2002 Lund Angler that looks like a sweet aluminum boat. Give Worrall a call a see about a Tuffy. Later Troy | |
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| Good advice Troy, I appreciate it. I can't do the Tiller thing as my wife's only requirement is that the new boat has a four seat arrangement to seat her and our soon to be two boys (man I wish she'd have it soon, the waiting is killing me... and her).
Anyone have the number of Even Keel Marine? I don't care where I buy the rig... as long as my dollar is well spent and I get exactly what I want.
jlong | |
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| Jason, the number for Even Keel is (815) 963-1105. I believe they aren't open on Sundays. If you call ask for John or Doug. They are all great people to deal with. My family and I were going to buy a Tuffy Osprey 1760C from Even Keel, but they sold it before we told them we were serious about buying it. Instead, they gave us a GREAT deal on the 2001 Crestliner Tournament Series 182. | |
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| Jason, I have a Smokercraft 182 Ultima wich is the same size boat as the 1850 your looking at. I went with the 115HP because it was the biggest 4 stroke available period. I can tell you it's not a rocket as I might get 38 MPH when alone and 35 with clients.
It has a great holeshot and carries itself well with me and another person or with my wife and 2 kids but once you get a third person and extra gear it lacks power. It gets harder to come out of the hole and it is hard to get the boat on plane as I cannot trim the motor up as it will make the boat bounce.
I am sure another size prop might work but I wish they made 150 HP 4 strokes. Maybe I can find a deal on a 150 optimax with a 9.9 4 stroke kicker in trade for my Honda 115HP.[:sun:] Anyone got a Mercury connection out there?
Try and see if the manufacturer can get you specs on how your boat will run with the 115HP before you make your final decision. You might even ask him if he sold one equiped the same and see if he can get you connected with the owner.
4 strokes are the way to go to save on gas and the only bad part of my motor is the weight. | |
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| Jason,
I have a four stroke Yamaha 115 tiller on my 20 foot Tuffy. The boat weighs about 1400-1500 pounds. I get lower 40''s on a GPS with stainless prop. By all means go with a bunk trailer. Don''t forget to silicone the bunks two to three times a summer. Good luck.
Tim | |
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| Hi Jason,
You would indeed be within the 75% rule with a 115HP motor.
In buying a boat there are so many personal differences its hard for one to say what would be best for another. For me the motor is more important than the trailer. Although I didn't want rollers. If you really want a different trailer price them out separately, work out a price with the boat dealer excluding a trailer and bring your own when you pick up your new boat.
Ask a million questions and then do what you feel is best for your fishing circumstances. All you can do after that is hope you made the right decision.
I just ordered a boat, so I know what you are going through. I was looking for a bass boat, low to the water, fiberglass and waterproof compartments. Now, the hard part is waiting the 3-5 more weeks before it is ready.
Good luck,
Brian
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| jlong,
When considering the 75% rule remember that is a 2 stroke vs. 2 stroke rule. The added 80 lbs on the 4 stroke will change things. I would consider the Merc 115 2 stroke for your boat, it is a sweet running motor and you will not need a kicker. | |
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| I''m a firm believer in maxing out a hull. What most people don''t consider when purchasing a new boat is the TOTAL LOAD. Sure, maybe it handles great when test driving it without anything in it to speak of but consider the weight of:
All of your fishing tackle, rods, reels, lures, and accessories, the stuff to make leaders, pliers, etc. This adds up quickly.
The batteries that you have to put in the boat. Does the boat have the trolling motor in place now or do you have to add one? Is it a 24 volt system or 12 volt and now you have an added battery?
What about a full tank of fuel? My boat has a 50 gallon fuel tank and it sure handles differently when the tank is full for a long weekend of guiding.
What about full livewells? Maybe you don''t intend on putting a muskie in the well, but what about suckers? Or maybe you fish for walleyes when not muskie hunting. 25 to 45 gallons of water adds quite a bit of weight and will have an effect on performance, especially holeshot.
How about a couple anchors, driftsocks, raingear, PFD''s and all the assorted hardware, spare prop, rope and other things that find their way into a boat?
Then, add your pudgy brother in law, a buddy with a beer belly, yourself, a cooler full of ice, snacks and beverages, what does that weigh?
When you figure out the total weight on this, you''ll be amazed at the total. Heck, when I have a full fuel tank and livewell, I''m adding almost 1,000 pounds to the weight of the boat. That''s NOT including everything else that fills all of the compartments.
Now, factor in a headwind with everything else and try to get that boat up on plane. It''s not going to happen quickly or easily.
I''ve talked to a lot of boat owners over the years and I''ve never heard one complain that they''ve overpowered their boat. But I have heard many people complain that they should have bought the larger outboard.
Personally, I like being able to punch up on plane, then back off the throttle and let that 175 sip fuel all day. I burn less gas doing this (and running faster at the same time) than I did with my 17'' boat with a 75 hp outboard running at wide open throttle almost all the time. Plus, I like having the capability to "let her rip" if I''m hustling off the lake ahead of a storm.
I''m surprised that no one brought up these factors once in all of the replies.
I''d rather have the horsepower and not need it than to need it and not have it. Go for the 150, you''ll be happier.
As far as trailers go, get a good bunk trailer. After using a boat with a roller trailer this past week, I''m much happier with my bunk trailer. Loading and unloading go much easier, the boat aligns better on the trailer and if you know how to drive a boat on, it''s faster too.
A good bunk trailer will also support the hull weight better as well. There''s a lot of weight resting on the small surface area of a roller, that will dimple an aluminum hull or crack the gel coat of a glass boat over time. Why do you think that all of those expensive glass boats ride on bunk trailers?
But that''s just my opinion,
Steve @ G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com | |
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| A buddy of mine has an 18' smokercraft with a 115 mariner on it and it does about 42. Plenty of power and it's rated for a 150.
What I would not recommend is getting the standard engine that some dealers/manufacturers put on their boats. Mine, for instance had a 40 force on it. I had it taken off and put the max 60 merc on it.
Seen a guy today with a tracker v-hull with the standard 25hp merc on it. Three guys in it and never came close to planing. | |
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| Steve,
Your comments are EXACTLY why I always had the rule that you MAX the horsepower or don't get the boat. The reason I am asking this question is I'm curious if the 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke debate has changed the way I should make my rules.
I agree, going from a 115 2-stroke to a 150 2-stroke would be a foolish decision. But does the 115 4-stroke make a difference?
Would I be better off going with the 1750 with Max ratinging of 115... and then have the dealer put in the 4-square seating arrangement? I'm mostly looking at the 18 footer because it has 4 seats for my wife and two boys. To do that in a 1750 I'd have to add seat posts myself and it would be a little tighter fit. But doing that... I'd be sticking to MY rule of thumb and maxing out the horsepower AND still getting the benefit of 4-stroke technology.
What do you think??
jlong | |
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| Getting up on plane with a good hull is a function of the propeller more than anything else. If one has a the Maximum coast guard load on board, and has the rig at 75% hp, the prop should reflect that. I have found that most folks with planing and performance problems due to heavy loading are overpropped, and need a stainless, too.
For example, my 225 Opti Max runs at 5600 RPM with a 23 Tempest, and ROCKETS out of the hole regardless of load. With a 25 pitch, same prop model, I am several seconds slower out of the hole, and weight sensitive, taching at 5250 WOT, but faster by 4MPH or so. I could go to a High 5 if speed was not important, and have a breakneck holeshot with the 23, taching at 5700, or a very good holeshot taching at 5350 with a 25. The fastest prop is usually a three blade, the best hole shot comes with a properly pitched 4 or 5 blade.
Aluminum props ''flex'' when the motor is at WOT, and lose some of the cup and pitch that gives peak performance. Stainless does not flex, and holds it''s form perfectly. The idea an aluminum prop saves the motor from damage if one hits a rock is not necessarily true, I have seen lower units blown apart inside from a rock impact with an aluminum prop. Most dings that disable an aluminum will not even mark a stainless appreciably.
I have two boats, a 1760 Esox Deep V, and a 1990 Esox Deep V, and both are maxed out. I like to go fast. The 1760 will run VERY well with a 115, and the 1990 does 50s with a 150, so I could get away with alot fewer ponies, but WHY? Steve made a good point, I run my Opti at 4200RPM alot, and SIP fuel compared to what a 150XR6 would drink at the same speed on the same boat. | |
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| Steve,
Sounds like you also support the MAX IT OUT philosophy... but at the same time you suggest that I'd be fine with a 115 as long as I put the right prop on it (4 blade stainless).
The $4K difference in cost to "upgrade" to a 150HP would also mean waiting another year to get my new platform. Considering that... what would you do?
jlong | |
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| If this is a 'stop gap' rig, and all you want is a nice handling, quick hole shot, medium speed boat, get the 115 four stroke. Prop it right, and away you go!! If you cannot get the right prop formula from the boatbuilder, look into Turning Point Propellers or Mercury propellers. Both adapt to the Yammy, and have extensive boat testing records.
I have several 115 four strokes out there on our 17'6" hull, and reports give us fully loaded( three anglers) 40 to 42 MPH speeds. A 150 on the same hull would run 50 to 52. | |
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| Recently, I had the pleasure of fishing with Bob Jensen of Fishing the Midwest.
Due to contractural agreements, we had to fish from his 18' Alumacraft powered by a 130 hp Honda. I was impressed with the quietness of the outboard, Bob says that the fuel consumption is VERY minimal but I wasn't impressed with the performance of the boat/outboard combination.
I thought that the boat was very slow getting on plane, even thought it wasn't heavily loaded. Part of this I feel is due to the fact that 4 stroke engines don't rev up as fast as 2 strokers do. It's the sudden burst of rpm's/power that get the boat on plane quickly. Maybe it was the way the boat was propped, I don't know. All I know is that it didn't jump on plane like I thought it should and it wasn't fast either.
My opinion, go with the max horsepower in a 2 stroke outboard. Also, go with the bigger boat. You know as well as I do that you NEVER have enough space in a boat, regardless of how big it is. I have a 19' boat and am thinking about a 20 or 21. I think that if you downsize the boat, you're going to be kicking yourself sometime in the near future. That hurts [:praise:]
Good luck in whatever decision you make and keep us posted.
Steve @ G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com | |
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| Steve,
I have some experience with the Honda 130 too, and can tell you it is quiet, sips fuel, but is a 'pooch' as far as powercurve and top end.
Testing on one of our boats indicated top end with the Honda 130 at 43, and 59 with the 135 Opti Max.
Propping is EVERYTHING with that motor. | |
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| Thanks for the feedback guys. Looks like the Merc 115 Four Stroke with 4-blade stainless will suit my needs. I figure 40 MPH is plenty fast with two VERY young boys along. When they are older and want to go faster (probably 10 years from now) I will be ready to upgrade to higher horsepower and smoothness of fiberglass (or whatever space aged material that has been invented by then).
I appreciate the feedback from all you experienced boat runners.
jlong | |
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| You will love the merc 115. Great motor, and a solid company behind the product! | |
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| jlong, I purchased a 1750 fish hawk this season with a Yamaha 80 4-stroke tiller model with a stainless steel prop. I really like the boat and motor. Great on gas and oh so quiet. It'll do about 45 mph when I'm alone with all of my gear. It will hit about 40mph with a second person. I realize that you are looking at a bigger size motor but the 4-strokes are very nice. | |
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| I own a Crestliner 1750Sc Fish Hawk that I purchased back in may and I too was having the same thoughts about getting a 90hp or the 115hp evinrude ficht motors. The difference between the 2 motors was $800, not much when you are already spending 16000 so after talking with friends and other dealerships I went with 115hp ficht motor. The boat gets out of the hole great and the topend ain't to shabby. Love the Crestliner boat and motor, I'm not sorry about any of the choices I made with the combo I went with.
Also if you want my vote on roller verses bunk trailers, I have owned both, My last boat had bunks and my new trailer has rollers, I like the rollers much better than the bunks. Good luck with the new boat, Jeff | |
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Can you justify NOT maxing out HP?