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| Being that I fish muskies and some salmon during the year I get to see two different spectrums of fisherman. Its kind of a neat comparison of two differnt worlds.
Salmon folks are very easy to talk to at the landing and will tell you anything you want to know for the most part. Charters often get on open channels and tell everyone what is going on, depths and colors. The fishery is put and take, fish die in four years anyway so "who cares lets all have fun" is the additude.
Muskie folks are often quiet, secretive, often beat around the bush and sometimes even lie to protect thier fishing. The fisheries are put and take for the most part in the US, except in Canada and some extreme northern parts of some states. But since releasing muskies has become common place and often in the 95% or better range on most bodys of water, why the hush.
Everyone wants to know, "Why that guy with the Kmart blue net does not know he is hurting the fish, by letting it do the crappie flop in the bottom of the boat". Maybe we are unaproachable for the most part. Maybe we shun them away at the landings and on the water and they are afraid to ask. Its also just a fish to many folks, they dont know what makes it so spiecal and how to care for it. They cant ask us, they would feel imbarressed.
Why do some muskie anglers find it hard to share when they are dealing with a renewable, reuseable resource?
For those of you guys and gals that do share on this site and understand that education is the greatest tool to protecting and using this resource. For those of you that know that if you give a little info, you may get tons more in return. My hat goes off to you!!!. (What I mean by info is not spot on the spot...mostly good general patterns)
Is it not a renewable, reuseable resource?
Are Bass, Panfish, Walleye and sea dwelling fish worlds any differnt?
Sorry brain storming tonight.....happens after I spend some time on the water..[:bigsmile:] | |
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| Musky are much more limited as a resource. There is never as much science to catching a musky as there is for most other species. There is always a fair amount of mystery to the whole catching experience. Due to the mystery certain mystic experiences gain sway over the mind of any musky fisherman. Soon he develops certain rituals and secret cult habits which he feels, if revealed, will take away his manhood or fish catching ability(hard to rate which is more important). Besides the individual being secretive, musky fisherman have elevated certain fisherman to priesthood and each of these priests have their own dojo and camp followers. Lately there has been the troubling rebound effect which might take place before entropy sets in, dare I mention Sponge Bob Square Pants????... [;)] | |
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| jason, you are corect. if a person came up to me a the landing and asked how i did, i might say i seen a few or if i didnt see him fishing by me i might tell him i got a couple in the boat and say no more then that. it may be the fish (musky) we fish for isnt the easyest fish in the world to catch and if we get into some fish and do tell people, well you could say seeya to your fishing hole. some people, not all will tell there friends and they tell there friends and so on and so on. pretty soon your spot that has done you well is no longer your spot, its everyone's and the fish get more presure then before and the fish get spooky and not as active and you catch less fish [:((] .
or maby its a competitive thing and we dont want the next guy to swoop in and boat that 50 incher you saw yesterday, or we dont want others that we dont know to boat as many as we do. for me, i guide and have to share alot of info to my clients. but when im fishing alone, i like to keep my info to myself or friends that i know wont tell everyone and there brother. is this selfish, maby [:devil:] .
take muskie first for example. i dont know (personaly) hardly anyone on this sight except a couple people ive met once or twice, but between the posting and the chatting i feel i know just about everyone well enough to give out info that i wouldnt give to just anyone. [:bigsmile:]
so it must be a stranger thing for me. if i dont know ya, [:knockout:] on ya.
by the way, i was fishing lake x and was useing that bait in this color and i was fishing over there. good luck.
happy hunting
duck | |
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| After seeing one of my weeknight bass lakes destroyed by meathunters after the word got out, I have learned to be tight lipped about stuff like this. If everyone was as respectful of the recource as I, things would be different. I do share with those that I feel do respect the recource, whatever that recource may be, otherwise in my opinion, they don't need to know. | |
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| I too live in different worlds Jason...some dry, some wet, others a combination of the aforementioned...some close, some FAR AWAY...I too have stereotyped those w/ a "blue net", but now make a special effort to zoom in + befriend these special people + give them a sandwich...the fact is that the "blue light special" at K-Mart derives its name originally from the blue net sold exclusively in their stores. These once popular nets were purchased by the masses beginning in the early 60s for their durability, beauty + inexpensiveness...though they have been replaced for the most part by more modern netting devices, they still show up from time to time on the water, mainly having been passed down from family to family...the next time you pass a boat containing a blue net, slow down, stand up + salute the hallowed craft; you are showing respect to an American icon! There's just something special about looking down + seeing that bright blue nylon + reflecting for a moment on bygone days when life was easier + men were men. If you choose to share your lunch +/or info, these are the peeps to do it w/.
I have found that sharing info w/ others is easy + fun! All one needs is a cheerleader megaphone + an attitude of good will. To remain approachable, I wear a bright orange jumpsuit, hi-top converse tennis shoes + play some disco 8 tracks...I then cruise the shallows sharing what I have! A flare gun is helpful on foggy mornings + puts the uninformed at ease...lets open up to the multitudes + become the "Mr. Rogers" of the fishing worlds![:0] | |
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| Jason, Lots of thoughts here so I will try and keep it short.
I have to admit that when I am approached at a landing and am on fish and catching fish I tend to be somewhat tight lipped. This all stems from a bad experience.
Last year myself and a good friend had a 7 fish day. 5 of them came in a 1 1/2 hour period around moonrise. I made the mistake of telling an acquaitance about it and slipped and mentioned the lake name. In the next 2 weeks he took 4 different people to the lake. Well if those 4 each took one and each of those 4 took one pretty soon the pattern will die. All I got for sharing that info. was a crowded weedbed. So because of that I am pretty tight lipped.
Now when it comes to patterns, lures, colors etc. that is a different story. I will try and share as much info. on that as I can. Bottom line, you can tell a guy that the fish are hitting black bucktails on the weedflats right at sunset and he still has to get out to the weed flat and fish for himself, then he has to put it all together when he gets there. That dissemenation of info. is a lot different than giving lake specific patterns.
As far as us being different than some of the other groups of fisherman, I would say no. I know some bass and walleye guys up here that are just as tight lipped about spots and patterns as we are.
All that being said I will end by saying that although I might be tight lipped, I will not lie about where when and how I have caught fish. If I don't want to share any info. I will just say "I'd rather not say" I don't think any of us should lie about it. God bless.
John
Oneida Esox Guide Service
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| Will add more when I have time....but here's the abbriviated version on WHY I am not always more willing to give up the goods: I work DAMN hard to figure out patterns, I really feel that many people will not put in the time and effort to figure them out like I do....why do I need to give up info that I have gleaned from HOURS or DAYS of work so that someone can go do it immediately. IF others have info to give, while getting, then I have no problem with it....
Slamr
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| Jason,
I fish for eye's almost as much as I do for ski's. One thing I have learned about eye guys, is that you have to set up a network to get reliable information. It is slow at first. You meet somebody, maybe at the launch, on the water, or even on-line. You have a conversation, give some information, and get very little back. Next time, give some info, get a little more back, and so on, and so on. Meet someone else through that person, and work on sharing info with that person. Pretty soon, you have several reliable sources of info.
Networking is the key. Never, ever, give false information. You do that, and you gotta start all over again, from scratch, with new people. It's ok to say you didn't do well with a certain pattern, or on a particular day. That information is valuable also.
With ski's it is a little different. Not so much networking going on, I think. When on a particular body of water, and at the launch, you'll get the usual questions. But there are some trickster's out there. He'll mention that he raised a fish on a particular spot, even thought he didn't even fish it, and see what your reaction or response is. He may have seen you on that spot. If you give him any indication that you did see a fish there, he'll more than likely fish that spot before you get back on the water the next day. Or he'll give you misinformation.
I will usually give general info at the launch to anyone that asks. General patterns, colors, bait type, depth, structure, Etc. I am very careful with a few individuals on my home lake. They don't share much good info. But they are the exception. Most of the good guys have been very forthcoming, and I share with them freely, good day or bad. Jason, Mike, the Ricks, Don, Roy, Landy, to name a few. With the way my year had been going, I needed all the help I could get!
Tight Lines,
Shep[:sun:] | |
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| OE,
You hit the NAIL on the head with this statement!
"All that being said I will end by saying that although I might be tight lipped, I will not lie about where when and how I have caught fish. If I don't want to share any info. I will just say "I'd rather not say" I don't think any of us should lie about it."
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I would rather not say....is a great way to put it when asked about specifics on location and lure. That still leaves you open to answer the helpful questions to the angler. You dont have to name the lake or lure....at all.
Example.
Weed bite has been good, both inside and outside weedlines hold fish, try there. I have caught fish on both bucktails and topwaters in darker color patterns, as far as spot on the spot location, "I would rather not say", but hopefully this will lead you in the right direction. Good luck!
And by the way....about the blue Kmart net....you might want too...
Get my drift!
[;)] [:bigsmile:]
No one has to give up there specifics and spot on spot information, we all work too hard to get that info. Giving someone good simple honest info...instead of a cold shoulder is the best way to improve the image of the sport.
One more thing...I will always lead someone in the right direction on fishing info, but I expect something in return, like shared info. When I ask, I expect honest answers in return. If I get dishonest answers in return, well then you did your best to keep up your end of the bargan and that person no longer needs your info anymore. So after that.."I am sorry, I would rather not say" is a good response.[;)] | |
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| I'm very tight lipped about lake locations and lake names...
My foremost reason is that I want to protect the resource and the future for myself and my kid. Call me selfish; I am...
What's the sense of me practicing catch and release and then tell somebody I don't know the exact location or even the lake name, and that person harvests the fish I released.
I know its a renewable resource. Thank the lord that it is, otherwise, we all would have to live our lives without musky fishing and musky fevor is terrible enough.
So, what I do is try and teach somebody how to catch the musky and the importance of releasing it.
If I have any reservations about somebody practicing catch and keep, I just don't say anything.
[:)] | |
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| I'm very generours with information to people who I know (or suspect) will treat the fish with respect and practice CPR. But sometimes I have to ask myself, "Self, you spent 60-80 hours to learn that little nugget of info, and you just gave it away?!"
Sometimes I consider how the yoopers share info on trout streams up here. They don't, so don't even bothering asking a yooper about "Where the brookies are biting." All it takes is the guy who knows plus a couple new people to clean out a nice stretch of river/creek. If the guy remains silent, however, he can enjoy that sweet spot for years and feed his family many times without impacting the fishing.
Also, Jason, another current post asks how folks deal with "cut offs". I NEVER experience that as there's almost never another boat hunting muskies most places I fish. Hard for some of you to imagine, I bet. But that's the case up here, so why would I want to accelerate the crowding of these pristine and unpressured waters?
I don't! So except to the mighty Hulberts, or others on the MF Board, or cute girls at the landing, I'm clamming up!
[;)] | |
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| I concure with what Jason has said here...and others..
I always give general, honest information. If someone requests specifics it is rare that I get real specific but I will on certain occassions. I first must know(or at least think I know) the persons ethics both as far as sharing information back with me and then running around telling others what you just told them...
Like most of us, the last thing I want is 5 more people than we have now on the 400 acre lakes I fish...least of all having them all throwing the same thing it took me some time to just figure out a pattern on..
I do like to help others learn more about upping their percentages, and especially teaching proper fish handling techniques..i.e. the K-Mart net, etc. The more people we can get excited about Muskies and proper CPR the better our fishery will become..
The lesson here fits most walks of life..."you will get back what you put out" and then some...[;)]
Not everyone is honest or trustworthy and like fishing you gotta sort out the good ones from the bad...
Mark
Musky Adventures | |
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| I will share most information except lake name unless it is a bigger, more popular fishery. On a side note, a friend took me to a private lake last year and I boated 7 nice fish. I haven't been back there since and likely won't go without him... I feel I owe him that...am I off base?(Please say yes!) | |
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| Mark probably said the most important thing he could have...you get back what you put in.
There are anglers I don't talk to much, but that is THIER choice. No idea why, but some of the muskie anglers out there for some reason see me as 'nothing but a salesman' or worse. Sometimes MUCH worse. Politics....
To those gents I say OK----fine, I will fish where and how I do, you do the same,I will talk to and share what I know with whom I can(anyone willing to listen) and maybe if I am lucky we won't cross paths on the water.
Or even better, maybe someday those who feel that way will see this for what it is in my eyes....a sport to share, to enjoy, and to pass along to the new anglers just getting a start.
I am an easy old fool, willing to mark maps, show spots on the spots, and willing to share the areas I have taken big fish from. I fish THOUSANDS of acres of water and live in Muskie paradise. I am lucky.
Will I give up the precise spot I have seen a really big fish? Depends. If I have an exclusive shot at her, and am SURE she will eat, then probably not until it is clear I will not score easily. If I think she is mobile, and want to just plain see a picture of her in SOMEONE'S net before she goes 'south', then heck yes, why not??
Attitude in muskie fishing really is not that bad. Ask Zach sometime about some of the Pro Walleye guys!! I spent many years as an MWC offical, and have spent countless hours listening to the guys as the sport of Walleye Tournament Angling developed. There are times.....and yet there are also the gentlemen willing to help a struggling amature, no strings attached.
All fishermen are people, I guess, and it takes all kinds, but by being a SPORTSMAN or SPORTSWOMAN, the bar is raised, and not by just alittle! There are MANY good hearted anglers out there.
Ask Ashton, when he is able to speak!! | |
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| What about these statements.....?
By Worrall,
"Will I give up the precise spot I have seen a really big fish? Depends. If I have an exclusive shot at her, and am SURE she will eat, then probably not until it is clear I will not score easily. If I think she is mobile, and want to just plain see a picture of her in SOMEONE'S net before she goes 'south', then heck yes, why not??"
And the main question...
Is it not a renewable, reuseable resource?
Great discusion guys......Thanks to those that put there two cents in, no one has to agree..thats why its just a frendly discusion.[;)] [:bigsmile:] | |
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| The unique thing about Muskies is the fact one SEES them before catching them many times. That allows the location of a trophy specimen before capture, and starts the "MINE!!! MINE!!!" syndrome. Sort of like hunting a trophy buck on public land; except thankfully there is no shoot and release!!
Ever see a boat on the spot on the spot and nearly freak out because there is a 50 plus there you raised last night?
I quit worrying about that a very long time ago. If the fish gets caught, so what? It has a 95% chance of release, and probably a 75% overall chance of survival, so I can go get her another time. If she is kept, then the trick is to find another. There will be another, as Jason is leading up to!!
During the 70's and early 80's, there were multiple 48 to 50" class fish kept off the water I fish every year. Think about that. EVERY YEAR.
Other difficulties plague the muskie population now (that is a different subject entirely) keeping things about level to improving.
If we as a group are at least moderately civil, resist the urge to act somehow superior to the new muskie anglers out there,and pass on what we know about catch and release then the trend towards selective harvest/release of non trophy fish in appropiate waters will continue!
I hope.
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| The only person that I guess I wouldn't offer to help would be the individual that I positively know continually practices catch and keep. Please note that I said "continually," that doesn't include the person who caught their first, largest, or a trophy fish and decided to keep it. I choose to look at it this way. Nearly all I know about fishing (muskies or other species) has been learned from others. Father, uncles, fishing mates, magazine field editors, tv personalities, guides, forum contributors, etc. so all I am doing is merely passing on information which was happily shared with me.
I don't consider any fish to be MINE regardless of who first saw it, has raised it previously, or whatever. If I'm suppossed to be the lucky individual to catch it, then it will happen regardless of who or how many others also fish for it. And if I'm not, well keeping it's location, the bait it has previously reacted to, or other such information isn't going to change that fact even slightly. Even when I'm fortunate enough to catch one, it's still not MINE - that's but one of the reasons I put it back. Besides, I get as much enjoyment out of helping someone else to get into musky fishing, improve their success at it, or catching one of these incredible fish as doing it myself.
I too go along with the philosophy that "you get back what you put in" It's been that way with everything else in life, don't see why fishing should be any different. Admittedly, I am not a guide and don't depend on fish and fishing for my livelihood which would probably affect my position on this matter somewhat I reckon. | |
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| Jason,
It's interesting that you draw comparisons between the salmon guys and the muskie guys. Besides fishing muskies, I also fish steelhead (among others). My experiences have been the exact opposite of yours. I have found the muskie guys here to be very friendly and helpful while the steelhead fishermen tend to be b*tchy, anal retentive and basically unpleasant. Admittedly, this is a generalization and I've known exceptions to both groups.
I don't have a problem with sharing information. I figure I can use all the good karma I can get so I try and help my fellow anglers when possible.
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| Another great point....from Musky Mike
"I don't consider any fish to be MINE regardless of who first saw it, has raised it previously, or whatever. If I'm suppossed to be the lucky individual to catch it, then it will happen regardless of who or how many others also fish for it. And if I'm not, well keeping it's location, the bait it has previously reacted to, or other such information isn't going to change that fact even slightly. Even when I'm fortunate enough to catch one, it's still not MINE - that's but one of the reasons I put it back. Besides, I get as much enjoyment out of helping someone else to get into musky fishing, improve their success at it, or catching one of these incredible fish as doing it myself."
Thanks for sharing that "Musky Mike"
I have heard on countless times....."He caught MY fish"...What Mike said..is fantastic in my opinion.[;)] | |
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| Jason: Thanx for your kind words.
That's just my thoughts and opinion on sharing information, others will feel differently about it. Don't guess one way is right and the other wrong, it's just how different folks feel about the same thing.
It pleases me to be able to give someone else info on a spotted or raised fish, a particular lure, or presentation method to help ensure success. If it didn't well, I wouldn't do it. But I can understand how others view this same thing differently and certainly wouldn't criticze anyone for remaining tight lipped about it. I guess it's sort of the same thing as deciding whether to keep a fish or not, it's a personal choice.
I have always suscribbed to the philosophy that.......
"feelings" are neither right nor wrong, they just ARE.
Thanx again,
Mike | |
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Muskie world vs. other worlds