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| Ive heard that there is a proposal to end sucker fishing in wisconsin,is this true that it might be the last year? | |
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| The proposal is out there , but far from being passed at this point. We will have to see how it progresses.
9/10
TO CLARIFY!!!!!!!! I have heard rumors of a total ban proposal, but have not seen it. I am referring also to the thread listed onsite as 'Wisconsin Sucker Rig Proposal', as it looks to ban/limit certain methods of rigging suckers, which may have been misinterpreted by some to be an attempt to ban sucker fishing altogether.
Anyone have any actual info on any other proposals out there at this time? | |
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| I had heard some talks about this.
Steve and all of the other Wisconsin fishermen, how do you feel about this? Good, bad, stupid?
If they take away sucker fishing will they allow any type of trolling or row trolling on other waters?
-Phil C | |
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| I heard you cant bait muskie with corn....either...or is that deer..[:bigsmile:] | |
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| This will be a tuff sell, as it has to go though the Conservation Congress meetings. I do not feel that this will happen, as many musky hunters really enjoy the fall fishing with suckers. Bait shop owners will oppose as well, along with bait dealers. I personally would oppose such a ruling. I catch many fish each fall using them, by using quicksets, I have yet to gut hook one. As its usally the serious anglers left come OCT and Nov, these people know how to properly handle and release fish, not to mention that these are the people who are most concerned woth the saftey of the fish. If this law would pass, how can it be legal to use live bait for any species then? If on the ballet next spring-I will be voting NO!!! [:(] [:(] | |
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| That's a pretty tough tradition to stop altogether. That would stop a lot of fishermen from braving the cold, plus put a big hurt on quite a few tackle shops with sucker sales.
Rob | |
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| I myself like it,and have never had a problem with it.I feel there is more of a death rate with handling the fish for pics with uneducated anglers than there is with die hard sucker fisherman. | |
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| Education not legislation.
If done right, sucker fishing is no more harmful than artificials.
If a law HAS to be made, I hope it's limited to banning the use of single J hook rigs.
Jono | |
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| I have not heard of this proposal. Please provide more details if you can.
Could this be confusion regarding Larry Ramsell's proposal to eliminate single hook rigs?
sworrall, it sounds like you are familiar with the proposal. Please fill us in.
Mike Deiss
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| There won't be too much opposition from the tackle shops and sucker farms now will there.... never happen. | |
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| More fish die to trolling in 80 degree water in July then a quick strike rig in 45 degree water in October! Education is the key to safe sucker fishing. | |
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| Personaly I don't see this ever happening, and if by some chance it does it will reafirm my view on the outlook of the politics in our sport, P.E.T.A. P.E.T.A. P.E.T.A. come on people, STOP REGULATING and start EDUCATING. In my opionion alot of muskie fishermen (if they are true fishermen) need to step back for a minute and realize why we do this in the first place, EJOYMENT, SELF-SATISFACTION and the thrill of the CHASE. If the elitist faction disagree they should take up a different pass time. This is my opionion, agree with it or not. Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a Damm [:praise:] | |
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| Sworral:
I too have not heard of this proposal. More info please.
As an aside, I would like to clarify the "draft" proposal that I posted some time ago for input. Due to my busy summer schedule, I have had little time to do more on it, but we are a long way from the spring hearings. I received a lot of good input and will "tread lightly."
I too, as do many/most others prefer education rather than regulation, but the simple fact is that there are a tremendous number of people using suckers that don't read the muskie boards or muskie magazines. I talked to one bait shop owner last week and learned that they sold nearly 100 suckers Memorial Day weekend (warm/hot and before the "normal" fall sucker fishing time!).
On the other side of the coin, a foot in the door could result in the subject of this thread. I'm not for that!
Muskie regards,
Larry Ramsell
www.larryramsell.com | |
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| I could easily support any kind of no sucker type rulings, but the idea at this time is unrealistic and feel everybody's energy better spent on other more achievable goals.
I hear you all talk about education rather than regulation but on my recent tour of Northern Wisconsin Musky Waters and Baitshops(trying to keep the baitshop visits to the minimum-due to the cost per visit), I located on two separate occasions single hook sucker rigs and large single square hooks(and I was NOT looking for them).
All that talk about education is obviously NOT achieving much. In one shop I viewed a large supply of suckers, single hook rigs, and up at the door the most recent copy of Musky Hunter Magazine that had the first results of the DNR study. Water temps in the early 70's at the time and the suckers seemed to be selling well. This was also a locale where the majority of water is 40" legal size.
Has there been any well orchestrated effort to reach bait shops with a simple letter in clear concise language clarifying current studies and knowledge about the use of single hooks and the musky resource? I would be willing to chip in for mailing cost. I think Musky First would make a nice letterhead on the letter. This does not have to be a threatening letter of any kind, nor carry any type of exaggeration as I think the facts pretty well speak for themselves.
We are all sitting at the same musky fishing table and on the table we find all the musky fishing resources. We all have an interest in ALL the resources. Only a dimwhit thinks that one part of the resource is isolated from the others. Lake Miltona, The Cave Run Kill Contest, and the Leech Weedbed Issue should quickly point out how closely all our interests are related and become sentinel events for the future of the sport. We all need to think about and respond to some of these issues. | |
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| sworral,I think firstsixfeet has a good idea! | |
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| FSF!
I would be delighted to help with the project you describe, and give each bait shop that tosses out the single hook kill rigs a post on the thread, with a thank you.
If a shop ignores the letter, we simply do not mention them. That achievs what we need it to![:praise:]
What do we need to do to get started? | |
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| Outlawing the use of suckers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have been noticing an exorbitant number of bonehead extremist types in this sport, many of whom I've noticed just picked it up in the past 2-3 years. Yes I agree something needs to be done about the use of single hooks, and making them illegal(and even more immediately, unnavailable) will really help. What many people just do not realize, is that fishing for muskies in the Fall with a sucker is as much a part of the sport, as using a tip-up for ice fishing(there are those who argue they are wrong as well).
Some may think that I take this personal, and I do, being an ardent user of live meat in the fall months. I can also say that I have damaged many more fish with a suick, than I have with my homemade quickset that is normally seated in the corner of the mouth. Lets not waste board space with useless proposals such as this. [:bigsmile:] [:(] | |
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| Couldnt have said it better than ReefHawg....it's part of the sport, just like ramming a 10" Jake into a fish's face on the hookset. Do I think that single hook rigs are ok? NO! Do I set the hook on my fish with a quick strike as soon as I get my rod in position for a massive hookset? YES, but it's usually less than 10 seconds. Can a muskie swallow a sucker in that time? YES, will they on average? NO, but can a muskie inhale a 6" Jake or bucktail? Same answer!
Do we hurt the very fish that we chase? Yes! Steel hooks inflict damage, anything done incorrectly can make this worse: late hooksets, poor tackle, faulty terminal tackle, weak line, etc.....But I want the extremists who advocate so vociferously for the protection of muskies to keep that in mind: until you use rubber hooks or baits without hooks, you are going to potentially inflict minor to major damage on the fish!
Slamr
*and yes, I am going to be running 2-4 suckers out of any boat I am in for the rest of the year (and from Feb to the end of May next year)....call it an unfair advantage if you want, but I guess I need all the advantages I can get!!
**I have inflicted WAY MORE damage with baits than I have with live-bait | |
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| Geeze what a bunch of tree huggin' Sally's. Maybe the next MF outing should be to the Shedd Aquarium where we can all hug a baluga whale? Should we raise funds to rescue the poor muskies from the nasty musky hunters who want to hurt them and put them in a tank next to the baluga's?
ITS JUST A FISH, a renewable resource. | |
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| AND, no one has to worry about Luke hurting fish with suckers....first time me and Boro took him out last year: reel starts SCREAMING, rod is AT HIS FEET, to those purists who disdain using suckers, that means there is a fish on the sucker....Luke looks at me, says "dude, I think a fish just took the sucker?", and does nothing, even though its his turn on the suckers to hit a fish....granted I did the wuss hookset of all wuss hooksets....but didnt want the release Nazi Muskie Petters to think that Luke is any danger to muskie health.
Slamr | |
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| Just clear things up!Its not any tree hugging activists that have wrote the proposal...It is someone from this board that posts(Im not giving out names right now).But just to keep you on the right track.Ive heard the conservation congress and the alliance's all have copys of this proposal. | |
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| MuskieE-
Why hold back information if you have it? C'mon, let us know what you know. Or, if the person proposing this would step forward and ask for feedback on their proposal, that would be even better.
Sworral-
I repeat my question (which was also asked by Larry Ramsell): are you familiar with this proposal and what can you tell us about it?
Mike Deiss | |
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| The proposal I have read is in draft form and was posted here and on other sites to, as I understand it, get the opinions of the anglers on the 'boards'. I do not know who has copies, if the CC has it yet or not, or what the authors intend to do with it at this point. I am sure it is in the archives, look it up. Lots of good conversation on that thread too. Type "Wisconsin Sucker Rig Proposal" using the search bar in the upper right hand side of the screen. This proposal doesn't seek to ban sucker fishing totally, but to change the rigging allowed in a substantial fashion.
The rumors I have heard of a total ban being proposed are not substantiated, I had hoped there would be more information coming.
As I said in an attempt to calm MuskieE's fear of impending sucker fishing ban,( I should have been more detailed in the statement) any ban on sucker fishing or methods is a long way from being passed.[8)] | |
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| Sworrall, been busy with work stuff but see your post above and have been thinking about it. Also see a couple other posts above by musky fisherman that have never killed a musky with a sucker. Glad to hear that. I hope all sucker fisherman fish with your acuity and care. However since that is unlikely at best how about a little math here.
Let's just say that there are 700 waters in WI that produce musky. Let's not say we kill musky in all those lakes daily, in fact let's say we cut the lines or are forced to keep less than trophy fish due to swallowing on 1/2 those waters. That means 350 lakes. Now let's imagine for mathmatics sake that we don't kill musky every day on those 350 lakes we only kill one every other day. Hmmm that takes us to 175 musky kept or cut lines(die later)due to incorrect swallow sucker strategies and equipment, including J hooks, square hooks, incorrect circle hooks, correct circle hooks with incorrect setting techniques and set line fishing with lines placed so far that musky swallow before anyone can do the 133 yard dash or row the boat over to set the hook, per day. What length is the fall sucker season up there? Might we call it the last 75 days of the season? Spring sucker season, heck we won't even toss that one in. So hmmmm 75 days times 175 fish per day(figuring one fish in every other lake every other day) nawwwww way to high!!! that comes out to 13,125 musky killed by sucker fisherman in northern WI in one fall(note that theses aren't the trophy fish or anything like that they are the unfortunate fish caught by the ignorant sucker fisherman that aren't good caretakers and these musky can run from 25 inches up to less than trophy size). Since one fish from 1/2 the bodies of water every other day seems so high lets make it every 4th day that we have a misshap. Oh yes, our numbers are much better now, WI loses only 6,562.5 musky per sucker season to "misshap mortality", right, why even think about banning suckers?
WHEW, sure glad we cut the season in half, that 13,000 figure really worried me. How would that number compare for the catch and release figures for all of musky INC. for the year??
How many square hook swallow rigs would it take to put a dent in the Lake X population I wonder? | |
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| Firstsixfeet,
I don't think that you are speaking to the right crowd with your assertations.....you see live bait fishing for muskies as only being done with "swallow rigs", I would be willing to wager that 99% of the people who frequent this board use quick strikes or circle hooks (whose use I really can't speak to, never used them personally). I would NEVER put forth that quick-strikes (like any method for muskie fishing) ensure 100% survival rates for muskies, but once again, what we do to catch them rarely encourages increased health for muskies.
Slamr | |
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| Slammr, I am preaching to exactly the right crowd but the fact is that it's not me, but you and Reef Hawg, who should be preaching "Practicing Safe Sucker". You and some others on the board that like to sucker fish should be pursuing education, education, education, so that your so called elitists don't call down the conservationist on your practice as wasteful and one that causes inordinate numbers of sub legal fish to be killed. My numbers are not really assertions, I would call them speculation and yet it is not hard to picture one accidental death per Muskie lake, river, stream, etc. every 8 days during a 75 day season. I hope that the number is on the high side but fear it may be on the low side. Some lakes obviously are going to get little pressure but some waters I am sure are suffering extra losses.
I think that suckers can indeed be fished in a safe manner but feel that an awful lot of fisherman out there are not doing it. Sometimes we get wrong impressions of the total fishing population due to the fact that we mainly interact with others that have the same knowledge and interests as we do. That is often not the case when musky fishing though. There are many who do musky on a very small scale with little knowledge other than what is handed down from generation to generation. Conventional wisdom up until just a couple years ago was that cutting the leader would preserve the musky. While we the educated and motivated are now aware of that, many out there aren't. Other's hold the opinion that they don't trust those new studies because they read...
So my feeling is that the many here that often bleat every time somebody makes any move that threatens the cherished "Sucker Tradition" should be out educating and carrying the word to others, not sitting here puffing up and blowing how they never harm a musky sucker fishing. They should instead be reporting how they gave out circle hooks, gave out pamplets or demonstrations to help educate other fisherman how to "Practice Safe Sucker".
Let's remember in the line of tradition that shooting everything that moved was a tradition in the Southeast to the point that all large game was basically made extinct. In the west buffalo hunting was also a "tradition" albeit short lived. So it is possible that not all traditions are good traditions. I think that for WI to continue to have sucker fishing as a tradition the sport needs to really work on ending some of the traditional ways of suckers are used and the quicker the better. | |
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| FSF,
If you wanted to see chest puffing and "blowing", you should have been at my musky club meeting last night(that I am Sec. Treas for), when I talked about eliminating swallow rigs, the ease of quick set use, and the mortality of fish when caught on "kill rigs". You also should have been around when I posted on several boards two years ago, and offered to send one of my homemade quick strike rigs and instructions free of charge(offer still stands) to those who have never used them and didn't know how. Then there was the time 4 or 5 seasons ago on Big Siss in Nov. that I confronted a group of 8 men who were all staying in the same cabin and were up on their annual musky trip, using square hooks. It was tough, but by the end of the weekend(and catching one in front of two of them), I had them convinced(so they said) to quit the practice of swallow rigs. Nowhere have I ever supported the use of swallow rigs(aside from circle hook experimentation), and have vehemently called for their banning. I have also worked very hard with our club members and other people I see during my 40 hours per week on the water(many of them from the ole' school), to educate as you say "practicing safe sucker".
I will, and always will defend the use of suckers though, and please don't continue to fail in deciphering between the two arguments and viewpoints. Comparing the southern good ole boys killing everything that moved and the tradition and way of life of fishing for muskies in the fall with live bait is a bit unfounded. I can say that yes, I have had a musky or two hooked in the gill or near an eye with a quick strike, but I have done mush more damage with a large jerkbait, and I think most will agree that they have seen the same. Should I quit using large jekbaits???
Jason Schillinger [:praise:] | |
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| Good Jason, and I applaude your efforts. You are doing as all who want to continue to fish with suckers should be doing, using them in a very controlled manner and educating others. And yes I do remember some of your earlier efforts when you bring them up. But I am not condemming quick sets unless they are placed at inappropriate distances and positions. And I am not comparing buffalo hunting and sucker fishing, I am drawing the parallel of traditions that have tended to damage the resource and in retrospect were not good directions. I am sure that you would agree that the past history of sucker fishing in WI has not been a good direction particularly in view of single hook rigs and gut hooked musky.
My main point is that the education effort so far has not saturated the field and that further work needs doing. Perhaps we could agree on that point. Shoot Sworrall an e mail if you want to work on some bait shop education, and thanks for the past effort, you deserve a pat on the back.[:)] | |
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| There are lots of good ideas in these posts I hope we could combine them and help educate,local bait shops and fisherman.GREAT Job guys.Awesome discussion. | |
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| I second MuskieE on lots of good ideas in these posts and the hopes they could be combined to help educate,local bait shops and fisherman.
This isn't an original idea as I saw it somewhere earlier on one of the musky boards, but.....
It would probably go a long way towards achieving the desired education regarding live bait fishing for muskies if we could convince the DNR to include suggestions for quick-set rigs in lieu of single hook rigs in the pamplets supplied with the purchase of fishing licenses. It doesn't have to be a law to be inforced, just a suggested more fish-friendly method to be employed. I think the vast majority of anglers would abandon single hook "kill rigs" if they know the statistics and are offered an alternative. We keep saying that there are a tremendous amount of fishermen out there who don't access these musky boards and don't know the facts. If we went this route, the only ones who truly wouldn't know (or at least have the opportunity to know) would be those who choose not to purchase a fishing license in the first place - and those folks aren't going to follow the rules or suggestions anyway.
Just my two cents on the subject.
I also concur with MuskieE in saying, "GREAT Job guys. Awesome discussion."
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| FSF,
You've got mail.
Slamr | |
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| Slamr could you also email me I need to let you in on some information pertaining to this subject!
THANKS | |
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| Back To the Top!:) | |
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| Being a Minnesota boy perhaps it's not my place to comment here. But I guess I will anyhow.
After reading about the results of the single hook rig study that was done on the chippawa flowage and then published in a recent issue of a major Wisconsin based musky publication, I would support a ban on single hook sucker rigs, but I don't think I would support a total ban on the use of suckers. The study proves to my satisfaction that single hook swallow rigs are kill rigs. It should be common sense.
Quick strike rigs,if done correctly, seem to allow the safe release of a healthy fish. Also there are many people who can't cast all day long due to physical limitations who should have the opportunity to fish for muskies. With no trolling allowed on most of Wisconsins muskie lakes a quick strike sucker rig might be the only way for some people to catch a fish and then have the satisfaction of seeing a healthy fish swim away. | |
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sucker fishing coming to a end!