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| I don't want to stir things up nor do I want it to seem like I'm judgeing anglers tactics and ethics but there is something very disterbing to me on the cover this month. Just wondering if anyone else sees the problem with this picture..... Sorry don't mean to be negative but thought it should be addressed. |
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Location: Appleton | Guy releasing a large fish with 2 arms wrapped around it seems fine to me. The boat is rather high but what's a guy supposed to do. No wonder why others don't like musky guys. We come across as over the to with CR stuff. Fish are gonna die during a release. If you don't like it don't fish. |
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Location: Birchwood, WI. | Team Rhino - 1/2/2011 12:21 PM
Guy releasing a large fish with 2 arms wrapped around it seems fine to me. The boat is rather high but what's a guy supposed to do. No wonder why others don't like musky guys. We come across as over the to with CR stuff. Fish are gonna die during a release. If you don't like it don't fish. Right on team rhino!!!!!!
give me a break slimehuffer!!!!!!!!! |
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| how bout the fact that the boat is still moveing probably around 4-5 mph how r u supposed to properly release a fish like that like I said I'm not trying to b negative but there has to b a higher rate of fatality on a fishery where dudes don't even stop there boat r clear there spread to release a fish. Before u start hateing on me maybe u should no wat I was reffering to. |
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| slimehuffer420 - 1/2/2011 12:43 PM
how bout the fact that the boat is still moveing probably around 4-5 mph how r u supposed to properly release a fish like that like I said I'm not trying to b negative but there has to b a higher rate of fatality on a fishery where dudes don't even stop there boat r clear there spread to release a fish. Before u start hateing on me maybe u should no wat I was reffering to.
This is a pretty common on the bay of GB. Most guys don't stop their boats. Hard to say what speed his releasing that fish at. I still don't see issue enough to post any funrther on this. |
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| Should have posted what you meant, you left it open for everyone to guess what you were thinking. A picture doesn't always tell the whole story. |
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| A couple years ago the DNR did a season long creel census on the chain where we have a cottage, starting with fyke netting and shocking in the spring. I got to know the tech who was on our lake off and on all season. He said that in talking with the scientists about the best way to release a musky, they all agreed that the common practice of pushing and pulling a fish in the water was counterproductive, that when you pull a fish backward, you actually pull oxygen away from the gills. Much better to face the fish forward and hit the trolling motor, forcing water over the gills. Not long after he told me that, I had a fish that was not badly hooked, in fact the only hook was in the top jaw on the outside. However, it appeared to have stunned itself when it thrashed in the net and hit the side of the boat. I put it right back but it was barely moving. I held it forward and my son hit the trolling motor full speed. Within 10 or 15 seconds, the fish was not only revived but pulled right out of my hand. Long way of saying, the moving boat may help, not hurt a release. Watch how deep water fishermen revive bill fish on the ocean.
Edited by North of 8 1/2/2011 2:19 PM
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Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | slimehuffer420 - 1/2/2011 12:04 PM
Sorry don't mean to be negative but thought it should be addressed.
Then why did you post it here on M1st? No offense to M1st. If you feel it should be addressed, then why didn't you post this on the muskies inc site? It's their magazine. (yes I checked) Perhaps send a letter/email to the editor. Yes I also realize it's possible you've already done that. I'm sure you will get a response in due time. Let us know what they say. You get the magazine so you must be a member. It's your club too. Treat it as such. I'm sure you'll get some satisfaction if not enlightenment. Perhaps both.
The part that disturbs me most,if you read pg3 "about the cover", the captain was apologetic that they only caught 10 that day. I'VE never come close to 10 fish in my boat in any given day. Maybe I'm fishing poorly managed waters?????
Karl
Edited by KARLOUTDOORS 1/2/2011 3:12 PM
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| slimehuffer420 - 1/2/2011 12:04 PM
I don't want to stir things up nor do I want it to seem like I'm judgeing anglers tactics and ethics but there is something very disterbing to me on the cover this month. Just wondering if anyone else sees the problem with this picture..... Sorry don't mean to be negative but thought it should be addressed.
OK, first be honest, you DID want to stir things up and you ARE judging, and once we get that out of the way, we can discuss.
St. Clair is some of the most productive musky water in the world. It is also a place where a huge number of fish are caught and released via trolling season, and most of those boats really catching them have released large numbers, and this is also a fairly clear body of water, and they can see the released fish. They do not have a lot of floaters out on the lake to my understanding. I would guess these guys have much more opportunity to observe released fish than most of us. I am of the opinion that they are not leaving trails of dead fish about. I would worry more about that on a hot water spoonplugging junket in IL.
I have released in the water, babying, and by the toss, and certainly water release is the easiest on the fish imo, but frankly, both tossing and babying seem to work out pretty well in the cool waters I generally fish. And I'm taking a wild guess here but I would bet the St Clair trollers releasing big numbers every year, probably know more about getting them back in good condition than I do. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | I've not seen the pic, but it sounds like a LSC or big water trolling release. Most/many LSC captains and boats have portable on-board livewells where they revive a fish in need of revival and then put it over the side. There's not much observing fish once they're back in the water as the boat keeps moving and unless the fish swims along side the boat, the fish disappears to where ever fish go after a catch.
I've never been on a big trolling boat...heck, I've never even been trolling, but I do have friends that are trollers and talking to them I gather that releases vary from literally tossing the fish over the side to a marlin-type relese where they put the fish in the water and pull them along for a while. Maybe Scott or one of the other LSC trollers can chime in here on how things are done and how they do it. |
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| if I wanted to judge I would just say the way the fish is being released is wrong, I wouldn't be so vague and say does anyone else find a problem with the picture. The idea that "tossing" a fish back in the lake is ok is a extremely new to me. I've never fished there but no it's reputation, and was a bit proplexed to see the method of release. I find it hard to believe I'm the only one that thinks this is kinda bogus but the guys that are out there all the time catching and releaseing all these fish obviously no better than me. I was just trying to get the opinion of other educated anglers I wasn't trying to make anyone look bad or get lynched myself. Don't fish that get hooked 25 plus feet down have problems during release with their air bladder(I'm really asking)? I would imagine this would account for more "floaters" and make fish more vonurable? I'm really asking and trying to better educate myself, the whole out east side of musky fishing is new to me and I'm trying to learn more about it. Sometimes when things are typed they come off different then the author intended. |
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| This is what I like to call "passive aggressive". State that you are not trying to start trouble, make an observation of something that may be viewed as controversial, see who bites on the post, then jump all over them so you look like a victim. If truly trying to learn, they ask a question about releasing from a moving boat or higher boats. The picture has no reason to even be in the question. We would know what you are asking if the question is just asked |
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| slimehuffer420 - 1/2/2011 5:26 PM
Sometimes when things are typed they come off different then the author intended.
Mine didn't.  |
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| Musky53 - 1/2/2011 6:22 PM
This is what I like to call "passive aggressive". State that you are not trying to start trouble, make an observation of something that may be viewed as controversial, see who bites on the post, then jump all over them so you look like a victim. If truly trying to learn, they ask a question about releasing from a moving boat or higher boats. The picture has no reason to even be in the question. We would know what you are asking if the question is just asked
Passive maybe but aggressive???? It seems like people are getting aggressive towards me!!! LOL the picture is the only reason I'd every think someone would release a fish like that so ofcourse I'm going to question it. People telling me I'm being judgemental after I specify that's not my intention??? Telling me " give me a break slimehuffer " LOL. Thanx esoxfly for the only insightful reply as I never thought of reviveing the fish in an onboard livewell before release. Anyone else that has an attitude towards me and believes my intentions are milicious is truely non of my concern but I am dissapointed that so little is being written to educate me and to correct me if I'm wrong and so much is written about my intentions as if I have some underlyeing agenda. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | slimehuffer420 - 1/2/2011 6:26 PM The idea that "tossing" a fish back in the lake is ok is a extremely new to me. I never said it was. All I said is that I've been told it's how some boats still do it. My point is guys here release fish in more than one way, which is most always different than we do from our lower gunwhales with the nice picturesque tail hold/release shot. Just because it looks different doesn't mean the fish died in the next frame.
Edited by esoxfly 1/2/2011 7:30 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskies can and do swim at speeds up to 36 MPH. 4 to 5 ain't going to hurt the fish any.
The point about calling this out here is well taken. If you have an issue with MI Magazine, take it up with them. If you have a question about release tactics, post that without the attached 'baggage', and folks won't be after you as much. |
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Location: eagle river,wis | The fish in question was revived in a special built livewell and then released.Of the ten fish caught that day only one was over 30"So the number being caught is kind of a false number. |
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| slimehuffer420 - 1/2/2011 5:26 PM
Don't fish that get hooked 25 plus feet down have problems during release with their air bladder(I'm really asking)? I would imagine this would account for more "floaters" and make fish more vonurable? I'm really asking and trying to better educate myself, the whole out east side of musky fishing is new to me and I'm trying to learn more about it.
Actually, this is a common method of re-pressurizing a fish if they are believed to suffer from slight barotrauma. Theoretically, rifling the fish down quickly causes an increase in pressure as the fish goes deeper, pushing gases built up inside the body cavity out of the body. It may also force gases back into solution (bloodstream). Think of divers that ascend too quickly. They get "the bends" which results from nitrogen build-up in the blood that is released as gas into the body. To treat a diver with the bends they are put into a hyperbaric chamber where the pressure inside the chamber equals that at depth. The pressure is slowly backed off and the gases allowed to slowly release from the body.
Rifling them over the side of the boat or even just pushing them off and away from the boat forces oxygen over the gills (think running back making 90 yard TD run, returns to bench and is given an oxygen mask). The jolt of O2 helps the fish acquire much needed O2. Also, remember when you ran track and your coach told you to walk a lap after you ran the mile? A little exercise after exhaustive exercise helps your body come down gradually from the stress of the activity and reduces the stress placed on your heart (going from 100% to resting is more stressful than going from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to resting).
I'm just thinking out loud here. We've become conditioned to see one type of release - over the gunwale gently holding the fish. There are other ways to release fish that don't necessarily result in mortality (as someone stated above). |
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| Some Trollers on St. Clair use a technique called "torpedo releasing" and from what I've read and heard it seems to work really well especially during the summer months. I'm not a troller and specifically cast on St. Clair but these trolling boats are much bigger than most and the only way to release a fish is to release it by the Torpedo Method getting the fish down to cooler water. Heck, some of these crew members will jump in the lake and swim the fish down to cooler water or swim with the fish to make sure it swims away. There was mention of revival tanks that draw water from the lake and give the fish time to recoop. Tossing fish back after revived is not gonna hurt them. Trollers on LSC put up some amazing numbers and alot of times go above and beyond the proper release of fish. |
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| I'm thinking that if they don't die from the stress of catching them, releasing them in this manner isn't going to kill them. And as others have said, in a large boat you can't really bend down and release them in the "traditional" fashion we are all used to. As for moving the boat during the release? Well, water over the gills is what re-oxygenates the fish, right? |
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| It's the middle of winter and you're beginning a post "I don't want to stir things up..." Better be prepared for some condescending remarks. Just reread your original post, can you honestly say that there was not any "judgeing" going on in that post? |
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| Thanx esox50 and detroit for better informing me. That's pretty gnarly guys jump in and swim with fish. Sorry if I came off the wrong way I thought saying I wasn't trying to be negative was enough to clear my intentions..... guess not, no worries. Can anyone to tell me about "fizzing" a fish? Does it work? Is it considered another controversial subject?
Edited by slimehuffer420 1/4/2011 5:58 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don't ever 'fizz' a muskie. |
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| I wouldn't recommend fizzing, especially not for muskies. There's enough literature out there that suggests it really isn't that effective for a number of species and like Steve, I certainly won't condone it.
Muskies don't need to be fizzed anyway. They're phyostomous meaning the swim bladder has a direct connection to the outside world. These fish can be burped by simply running your hand from their vent toward their gills. Bass and walleye, for example, are physoclistous; they have a closed swim bladder with no connection to the outside world. |
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| esox50 - 1/4/2011 6:20 PM
I wouldn't recommend fizzing, especially not for muskies. There's enough literature out there that suggests it really isn't that effective for a number of species and like Steve, I certainly won't condone it.
Muskies don't need to be fizzed anyway. They're phyostomous meaning the swim bladder has a direct connection to the outside world. These fish can be burped by simply running your hand from their vent toward their gills. Bass and walleye, for example, are physoclistous; they have a closed swim bladder with no connection to the outside world.
No wonder! I tried holding one over my shoulder and patting it on the back, hoping to "burp" it like you do with a baby. All it did was crap all over me. 
Edited by esoxaddict 1/4/2011 6:43 PM
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| Amen brother. Both to the non fizzing and in regards to keeping the flow of water running from front to back.
For fish with unvented bladders get them off the line ASAP and back in the water with a shove in the right direction. If that doesn't do it, use a weighted device like the one developed by Shelton Products (Shelton Fish Decender™)
Hope everyone has a great 2011!
LD |
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Location: Michigan | If I had the energy, I would write a book on the subject, but I don't, so in short... The fish on LSC are being treated better today than ever, and getting fished harder than ever. And we have arguably the most, and healthiest fish we have ever had. Not defending the release method, just making an observation. |
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Location: Germantown, WI | Is there anyone who can post the photo, i don't get the magizine any longer and am interested to see what all the drama is about. However my main question is how in the hell can you tell the how fast a boat is moving from a still photo? |
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| u can't tell how fast the boats going but u can see one of the down rods ripping through the water pushing up a decent size wake so I just assumed 4-5 mph(common trolling speed). U guys have to understand I grew up thinking when u catch a musky u leave it in the net in the water till u take a quick pic then hold it upright in the water rock it left and right to re-aline the earstones and them shove em off once they feel firm and start moveing their fins and any other way was unacceptable. So naturally my first thoughts where, how do u unhook the fish in the net with the boat still moveing especially from such a high boat? Do u net it and bring it into the boat in the net? Then I thought if u did try to hold the fish while the boat was moveing it would push water through their gills the wrong way. All these questions are the reason I started this thread not to start drama LOL. I thought alot more people would get where I'm comeing from..... I guess I'm clueless LOL. Now that a few people where friendly enough to enlighten me I understand the method a Lil more. I would post a picture but my only access to the net right now is my iPhone hence all my grammer and spelling errors, sorry to all the spelling bee judges hahahaha. |
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Location: Germantown, WI | gotcha, again w/o seeing the picture i'm in no position to comment i guess. I will have to try to track down a copy at gander mountain or cabela's and check this out for myself. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I don't believe Slimehuffers intention was to bash anyone, but merely to find out if this is considered a "norm" in some parts.
By looking at the pic, I don't think they were doing anywhere near 4-5 mph. The downrod is not causing that big of a stir. I've heard that St. Clair guys like to slow down to 1-1.5 mph when releasing. Granted, I've seen some still doing the 4-5, but again, looking at the pic, I don't think it was that fast. I've caused more of a commotion with my rod in the water doing a F-8. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | dward - 1/5/2011 12:40 AM
gotcha, again w/o seeing the picture i'm in no position to comment i guess. I will have to try to track down a copy at gander mountain or cabela's and check this out for myself.
I don't think you'll find it at either places. This is the magazine "MUSKIE" that you get when you are a member of Muskies Inc. |
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Muskie magazine jan 2011