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Posts: 642
Location: Richfield, MN | Being new to musky fishing I am always trying to learn. Tonight I want to pick at everyones mind about wire leaders.
I would imagine that wire leaders have there place in the fishing world but I have never used them. I am trying to ask this question but cannot come up with the wordage.
What reasons or for what lures are you using wire leaders. I have also ran across a couple guys that use a stiff wire leader and I think they said they were using them for certain types of glide baits. THey said it helped control the lure better.
So I guess my question is where and when is it better to use wire over anything else and does anyone else use a stiff leader as well.
It is the off season and I am in the process of heading out to by some good leader material and I am wondering if I also need to be making my own wire leaders as well
Any and all help is always appreciated. I have learned a crap load on the site and I will continue to ask questions as they come along. I know I have another question right now but I will wait and get answers to this one first and then ask away on another question.
Thanks again for everyones help!!!
Mike |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | I began using fluoro this year and liked them. Before that all I used was single wire leaders and never had a problem. I stay away from seven stand after I had some break twice. I don't like using wire with dawgs because when you dawg ball the wire comes back all bent. Wire is still my preference for walk the dog lures and some of my suicks run better with wire leaders.
I'm not sure if the fish care what kind of leader you have, maybe others will chime in on that. I would recommend you buy some wire and fluoro, try them out with your different lures and decide what you like best. |
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Posts: 8780
| I use flourocarbon for everything. Certain lures are easier to work with wire, namely anything with a side to side action like a glider or walk the dog bait. I suppose in those situations wire would be better, but having different leaders for different lures just seems like too much hassle for me. I want to fish, not fart around with leaders. I have certain gliders that will foul up in a flourocarbon leader of you're not dilligent about reeling up the slack line between pulls. Wire would solve that problem, and it does make working a Weagle/Doc/Jackpot etc. much easier. There's no question about that. For me though? It's just easier to use flourocarbon for everything, 130#. The only exception would be rubber baits like a bulldawg. Sometimes they just get inhaled and I am afraid flourocarbon will fall victim to sharp teeth. It hasn't happened yet, but it does make me nervous. Again, I am lazy so I don't use when when I probably should. But I have not found it to be necessary. That said, I do plan on making a few leaders out of the 174# wire, just to have them around. I carry seven strand leaders too, just in case. In case WHAT, I don't know... It's the same reason I carry a weapon I guess. I'd rather have it and never need it than need it and not have it! |
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Posts: 802
| said it before and i'll say it again- with flouro leaders, it's only a matter of time til one bites you off. i had a 34" bite 1/2 way thru my 80# leader in 3 places. if a lil' guy like that can do that much damage, what do you think a four-footer or bigger can do? even with heavier flouro, you're just taking a chance... just sayin'... |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I use 130, 150, or 180Lb F/C leaders and in the last 5 years never had a fish cut it off, if you use 80 or 100lb I could see that happing. Call John from STEALTH TACKLE and have him make some for you, he makes the Best !!!!!! |
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Posts: 582
| I used to use only wire leaders and you know what? they worked great.. with bucktails, jerkbaits etc... and i caught fish. Now i use Stealth 130# leaders for most things but its not because i feel the fish "can't see them". I do it because they last longer for me. Catch one fish with a single strand wire leader and 9 times out of 10 its shot. You will never get a straight again. I can inspect flouro and look for nicks etc... |
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Posts: 1270
| I use only solid wire leaders and use them for everything. I don't believe for one second that a musky cares about the leader, just look at the baits we are throwing - the vast majority look nothing like natural musky food so I don't think a piece of wire makes a difference.
Flouro has gained a following and I'm not sure why unless wire gives a problem with a certain bait I don't see a reason for using it.
My other advice to you is to learn to make your own leaders. The initial outlay of money is a little more but in the end the savings are HUGE! For about $30 you can get set up to make your own leader and then you can make them different lengths for different uses. And when the wire kinks just cut off the snaps and swivels and use them again so if a leader kinks you will be out a couple cents in wire. |
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Posts: 323
| muddy you will spend 10 times the money using wire compared to fluoro. wire does not hold up very long and this is a fact. single stand wire leaders are a waste of money to use on everything even though they work great till you catch a fish. i still like using them with smaller gliders still but one fish and like Jackson said 9 times out of 10 there are shot. Joe Bucher single stand leaders are the best i have used and i have tried many many different kinds. when it come to fluoro the pound test i use depends on the size and weight of the bait. i can't see using 130 pound on a #5 mepps. i use from 80lb to 300lb. |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | I`ve been using fluro for some years now without any failure,had seven strand wire leader break on me years ago from a small pike lifting it in the boat and lost a great amma bamma lure because of it.I used the gregg thomas leader this year alot and had a fish hit a mag dawg at the very tip of the lure,it bent the wire on the leader because of where the fish hit,I think if I would of been using an all fluro leader the fish would of bite through it. |
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Posts: 56
Location: Southern MN | I've used Flouro quite a bit and liked it for everything but WTD type baits; seemed like the flouro was ending up next to the bait as it swung out to the side and ending up in the fish's mouth and nicked up. After going through multiple leaders; went to wire and the stiffer wire seems to help with that problem. I've used Stealth single strand wire the last part of the season for everything; don't feel like changing leaders constantly and I've only got one rod. |
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Posts: 291
Location: Minneapolis | Where does everyone get 130# fluoro? I'm having a hard time finding it. Gander? Nope. Rollie & Helen's has up to 120#, etc.
I tried 80# a few years back. Fish chomped through that easily. Not going to do that again.
I like Tyger leader material, but it wears out at the snap, especially when using it with jerk baits. If I'm not observant, it will break off at the snap on a backlash.
Straight wire is fine, except I don't like having it cork-screwed by hammer handle pike. |
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Posts: 8780
| I found 130# Seguar at Rollie and Helens. They also sell wire, and stay lok snaps in every size, so you're good to go in one stop. The big box retailers are pretty well worthless when it comes to terminal tackle for muskies. I DID find the larger Sampo solid ring BB swivels at BPS a few weeks ago though. |
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Posts: 642
Location: Richfield, MN | I really appreciate everyones comments. I am going to be making my own leaders for sure using Floro and I was thinking that I might want to look at wire leaders as well.
I am planning on spending the winter time making my own leaders in various lengths and stocking up on them just in case I lose some next season!!!!!!!
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Posts: 291
Location: Minneapolis | esoxaddict - 12/7/2010 2:25 PM
I found 130# Seguar at Rollie and Helens. The big box retailers are pretty well worthless when it comes to terminal tackle for muskies.
Thanks. When I search for "Seaguar" at Rollie & Helen's it shows up. It's not there on the "Leader Materials" page, or at least not that I can find. Definitely right about big box retailers being hopeless for muskie terminal tackle.
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Posts: 104
Location: Hudson, WI | Like others have said on this thread, I only like to use wire leaders for jerkbaits, otherwise I use flourocarbon. I have found that Terminator Titanium leaders are fantastic! They are not cheap but in the long run they are well worth the money IMO because they seem to last several fish without kinking at all. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | reelman - 12/7/2010 11:07 AM Flouro has gained a following and I'm not sure why unless wire gives a problem with a certain bait I don't see a reason for using it. My other advice to you is to learn to make your own leaders. I think the overall ease in tying a flourocarbon on the fly is much better than wire construction. Additionally, while I have a few friends who have been bit off on 80lb flouro leaders, I never have. After this season, I've switched to 130lb because their's no use in being stubborn - my time may have come had I not switched. A couple packages of ball bearing swivels and snaps, with a thin spool of Sequar and I'm all set to tie a new one in minutes if i need to. I mainly prefer flourocarbon for the visual aspect, or lack there of really, and especially the bend problems with hardwire leaders. Heck, I have hard wire leaders bending on me from the lure alone, and after a wild fight with a fish, man do they suffer. Let's not forget price, either. You tie your own efficient flouro leaders and you're no longer spending $7 p/wire leader... |
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Posts: 366
| ALL Leaders have the potential for failure. I've seen wire break, and flouro bitten through, as well as snaps and other terminal tackle fail. I made my own single strand for a decade and that was all I used. The problem is that they don't last very long. One 24" pike can destroy a brand new leader in seconds. In a week trip you can go through dozens of leaders. Now that there are quality flouro leaders that are 130#-150# out there, you can buy one of these and fish it for a few years. Ask Doug Johnson how long he has fished the same leader on some of his rods, and how many muskies he's boated on them. For straight retrieve lures where the likelyhood of a fish missing the lure and hitting the leader is minimal, then there is no reason not to use heavy flouro. For irratic, jerk-pause types of baits I still prefer solid wire, because they have little affect on lure action and they are bite proof.
Ryan
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Agree, Fishwizard. I've caught up to 30 fish on a single flouro leader before replacing it. |
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Posts: 380
Location: Michigan | I have been making leaders for freinds and fellow MI members for several years. I use what I think are the best methods and components after much research. I have hundreds in the field with no reports of any trouble. It is equally important that you learn the proper method for constructing the leaders as it it selecting the components themselves. I strongly recommend investing in the equipment to make your own. In the long run, it will save you money.
My basic recommendations for what to use when are simple:
130 lb fluoro as a min, and only use on baits that you use a steady retrieve, such as topwater prop baits, bucktails, and spinnerbaits. I chose to use aluminum crimps on mine along with a stainless chaffing spring. If you prefer knots, there are many good ones, but they are a bit tough to tie in 130 lb fluoro. I have had no issues with crimps because i have the right sleeve, and the correct crimping tool (critical!).
IMOHO, if you use a bait with any pause or jerk in the presentation, use wire. And for baits like tubes, dawgs, creatures that are likely to be inhaled, definately use wire. Most jerkbaits work better with wire, and walk the dog baits definately do. I recommend 120 lb wire for most baits under 5 ounces or 8", then move to 174 lb for the heavier and larger baits.
For Jerkbaits, or even cranks, you reallyy don't need a swivel, but if you do use baits that rotate, like bucktails, or some topwater, a swivel is needed to prevent line twist.
As for the life of wire, with a dubro wire straightener, wire leaders will last a long time.
(http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_4705_151006000_151000000_151006000_151-6-0)
I have been using one of these for 10 years, and it works like a million bucks... If you make your own general perpose 12" SS leader with a quality BB swivel and staylock, you will invest ~$2.50-3.00. Then, after you straighten the wire a dozen times and decide you may have some weak spots (work hardened), you just re-use the components and build a new one using about 5 cents worth of wire. The components significantly outlast the wire. You can reuse the component several times.
I make my wire leaders with a Boggs tacklemaker, and have detailed instructions with pictures and i would be happy to send it to anyone if interested.
I am not interested in selling to the masses, rather just sharing my learnings.
Attachments
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 Finished Product.JPG (20KB - 227 downloads)
IMG_0550_1_1.JPG (79KB - 198 downloads)
Tacklemaker.JPG (56KB - 264 downloads)
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Posts: 245
| I also use Floruo för everything, if you buy thick and high quality Floruo you wont get bit of! Jsut check your ledaer after every fish... |
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