Posted 12/4/2010 2:05 PM (#468995 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 1270
It's a neat idea and I've played with them a little and they are cool but I worry about what will happen when it's REALLY cold out? Propane and really cold temps don't always work together that good.
Posted 12/5/2010 1:10 PM (#469059 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Propane flows freely to minus 40 degrees. Much easier to start in extreme cold than a gasoline unit, and no choke is necessary. Think home heating, if cold and propane didn't get along, there would be no use for the fuel for heating houses.
Neither will start very well if it's 45 below zero. I won't be out there, either.
Posted 12/5/2010 3:21 PM (#469074 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 1270
I have to disagree with you on this one. Take out a propane Mr. Heater in -25 and see how well it works? When I spoke to the the Jiffy guys they even conceeded that propane does not work well in extreme cold and that there were a couple of things to do including keeping a bottle of propane in your vehicle or shack so it stays warm. I don't know how hope LP works that it doesn't have problems.
Granted -25 is pretty darn cold but I've fished in that cold or colder quite a bit as long as I have a shack.
I think this propane drill is pretty cool and innovative and think it will work great 99% of the time, or at least the engine will, just making sure that people know that it will most likely have problems in extreme cold.
I myself have gone through quite a few different augers in the last couple years and disn't think that there was one that was really good until I got my Kluge auger last year - without a doubt the best auger out there.
Posted 12/5/2010 4:54 PM (#469080 - in reply to #469059) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 1710
Location: Mt. Zion, IL
sworrall - 12/5/2010 1:10 PM
Propane flows freely to minus 40 degrees. Much easier to start in extreme cold than a gasoline unit, and no choke is necessary. Think home heating, if cold and propane didn't get along, there would be no use for the fuel for heating houses.
Neither will start very well if it's 45 below zero. I won't be out there, either.
My propane tank for the grill froze here in IL last year. Lowest temps we saw were single digits ABOVE zero.
Posted 12/5/2010 5:39 PM (#469091 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
RyanJoz
You probably had moisture in the lines or fittings...or the tank. Get water in your gasoline once and try to start your machine, and for that matter, small two stroke engines in minus 25 have trouble starting with gasoline mixtures as well...extreme cold can make for a hard start no matter the fuel. Propane doesn't 'freeze' (actually, become a liquid again) in above zero temps, and that's a fact. Really hard not to point out how obviously just wrong that comment is. If propane 'froze' in above zero temps, home heating with the fuel would be impossible. I use 1 pound bottles all winter long in lanterns and heaters, and they fire up flawlessly after sitting out in 25 below every time. When you get toward minus 44, which is propane's boiling point, propane will not work because it is then a liquid. I won't be out in that, so I'm not worried about it.
Shaley,
TJ is correct, that drill doesn't weigh any more than the gas drill I'm using. I cut allot of holes, and don't find the drill heavy at all.
Jiffy offers drills that weigh in the top 20's as well. This one is a 4 stroke, and is a high HP model. I honestly didn't find it unwieldy at all, and am going to get one.
Posted 12/5/2010 7:15 PM (#469110 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
Propane in it's natural form is -44 BELOW ZERO and is liquid, when the outside temps are above -44, the liquid propane will vaporize inside the tank and you draw the vapor out of the tank to burn. So the colder it is outside the less vapor pressure will be in the tank to draw from. I see the size of the tank is very small so it won't take long to draw all the vapor out of the tank in very cold weather, so I wonder if that small tank will be able to keep vapor pressure in very cold weather. Propane is very clean burning so you won't foul plugs like gas.
Posted 12/5/2010 7:18 PM (#469111 - in reply to #469110) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Obviously it will vary with ice depth. But for reference, the folks at Jiffy said you should be able to count on a tank lasting or equal to about 3/4 of a tank of gas, or about 45 minutes worth of drilling nonstop.
Posted 12/5/2010 7:29 PM (#469115 - in reply to #469111) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes
My 8" gas auger weighs just over 20 pounds, even going to a 25-27 pounder in an 8" is a big difference. Still a neat idea but I run 2-3 tanks of gas a year so that would be 4-5 green bombs, guess I'll stay with mixing 1 gal of gas a year and filling it a time or 2.
Posted 12/5/2010 8:05 PM (#469118 - in reply to #469115) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
i stopped by the jiffy booth on saturday and i guess i didn't sense this unit was being targeted toward hard-core fishermen but more to those who might be a little more infrequent and especially those who had them in trunks or backs of suv's. i don't see it competing or landing in the zone of what i would use, but for some it probably hits the mark with a bullseye.
Posted 12/6/2010 8:28 AM (#469188 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 582
I wouldn't go ice fishing if it was too cold to start my drill so i really don't care what powers it at that point. However, what's wrong with regular gas? was there a huge need for product? i just don't get it.. never saw an issue with my jiffy gas drill.
Posted 12/6/2010 10:04 AM (#469202 - in reply to #469188) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
jackson - 12/6/2010 8:28 AM
I wouldn't go ice fishing if it was too cold to start my drill so i really don't care what powers it at that point. However, what's wrong with regular gas? was there a huge need for product? i just don't get it.. never saw an issue with my jiffy gas drill.
Do you drill many holes in a $10,000+ Wheel house? Do you like dealing with the fumes a gas drill puts out inside that house? Do you like exhaust residue on the walls above your holes?
Do you like having a can of gas/oil sitting in the back of your truck waiting to tip and spill? Do you like wondering if your auger is going to dump its fuel onto your shack while transporting? Like having your hands, clothes etc smell like gsa and 2 stroke exhaust when fishing?
Those are just a few of the reasons I can see for this drill, but IMO this auger was designed towards those who have permanent or wheel houses who wanted an alternative to electric augers as to have a more versatile piece of equipment that could be used for any drilling situation instead of needing to rely on a source of power.
Posted 12/6/2010 10:45 AM (#469206 - in reply to #469202) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 582
castmaster - 12/6/2010 10:04 AM
jackson - 12/6/2010 8:28 AM
I wouldn't go ice fishing if it was too cold to start my drill so i really don't care what powers it at that point. However, what's wrong with regular gas? was there a huge need for product? i just don't get it.. never saw an issue with my jiffy gas drill.
Do you drill many holes in a $10,000+ Wheel house? Do you like dealing with the fumes a gas drill puts out inside that house? Do you like exhaust residue on the walls above your holes?
Do you like having a can of gas/oil sitting in the back of your truck waiting to tip and spill? Do you like wondering if your auger is going to dump its fuel onto your shack while transporting? Like having your hands, clothes etc smell like gsa and 2 stroke exhaust when fishing?
Those are just a few of the reasons I can see for this drill, but IMO this auger was designed towards those who have permanent or wheel houses who wanted an alternative to electric augers as to have a more versatile piece of equipment that could be used for any drilling situation instead of needing to rely on a source of power.
i have a gas jiffy and never really had any of those issues you mention. I don't have to carry a gas can. In fact i can drill lots of holes with just a half tank. If i am in a shanty then i keep the door open while i drill 2 holes. i have never spilled gas on myself. I just don't see the need for something like this personally. Maybe some do, but i bet the price point is quite high. Unless it costs less and has a significant advantage over what is already in the market, i just don't get it.
Posted 12/6/2010 10:46 AM (#469207 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
The Pro 40 is a 4 stroke. Quiet and non polluting, easy to start requiring no choke or priming, and clean to transport. Many of the Ice Guides who use Jiffy drills are buying this unit because of the things castmaster said, the fact the new drill is so easy to use and the fact they already have multiple uses for 1# propane bottles and carry several at all times. So it isn't just for one segment or another, it's a market wide application of a clean burning, clean to transport, easy to fuel 4 stroke drill.
I still have my gas Jiffy, but will probably not use it much this season.
Posted 12/6/2010 11:51 AM (#469209 - in reply to #469207) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes
There is still fumes regardless of fuel used. I never carry gas with me either mix a gal at the start of the season and only use maybe 2 tanks a year at a cost of less than 1 green tank, I also have no other use for the spendy little things. For me I would be replacing a tank every 3 trips out so basicly 1 a weekend at whatever they cost $3?? So in a course of a season it would cost me an extra $50 just to drill holes. I can see a guy with a permie only needing to drill 4-6 holes a weekend having a use for this. I'm also not a Jiffy fan,to loud and heavy for my liking but everyone has their preference.
Posted 12/6/2010 12:24 PM (#469211 - in reply to #469209) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI
The fumes are far less with this unit, doesn't actually even compare to a gas unit. In fact, it's so clean that they actually allowed Jiffy to start them inside the building it's that user friendly. Gas powered units are not allowed to be started inside. So, there is a huge difference in ease and convenience with this unit. It's obvious there is no changing your mind on this unit, and that's fine, but why rag on it if you have no experience with it in any way, shape or form?
As I stated before, one propane tank is equal to or about 3/4 of a tank of gas. So, if you use 2 tanks of gas a year, that's three propane tanks at $1.99 a piece here at our local Fleet Farm. So replacing a tank every three times out does not compute right. The cost is no different when you figure in gas and oil for your gas unit, actually could be more pending on gas prices.
Posted 12/6/2010 12:27 PM (#469213 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
The 'fumes' from propane are FAR less noxious that gasoline/oil mixtures.
45 minutes of non stop drilling on one cylinder. That's allot more than 4 or 5 holes a weekend. And, the 4 stroke engine is really nice and quiet, maybe you missed that point. I could say quite a bit about bad experiences with the brand you have, but I'll be a reasonable person and simply explain why I prefer what I'm running without all the 'post peeing'.
I wish ( think about this as a strong suggestion) everyone else would as well.
Jobu
Posted 12/6/2010 2:03 PM (#469220 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
I agree with the "gas"guys on this one---propane in super cold weather is a pain in the " you know what". I use propane in the cold---ALOT and it can be a nightmare. I suppose it's like anything though---if you maintain your equipment properly--it will last for years----pretty much trouble free. As far as the noise level debate goes------the above ice noise isn't too terribly obnoxious---- so who really cares if your auger is quieter than mine---seems kinda trivial, imho. The propane is a cool gimmick---but it has a cool pricetag attached to that gimmick as well. I think we should all drill holes for a season by hand-----then we'll really learn to appreciate the augers that we have-----be safe on the ice----Jobu
Posted 12/6/2010 2:53 PM (#469226 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Forgot to add one other advantage to the propane Jiffy, no worrying about "summerizing" it. No gummed up carb to worry about, no having to drain the left over gas out of the tank before storing etc. Simply hang it up and pull it out next fall/winter and start drilling.
Posted 12/6/2010 3:06 PM (#469227 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Porpane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Install the cylinder on the drill and start the drill...end of story.
At OFM we use about 85 to 100 1# cylinders a year, and without that stuff my life would be much more miserable on the ice. We use it in heaters and lanterns and occasionally on a cook stove, and will now use it in my ice drill, so I won't need to mix gasoline any more unless we need two drills. Since the ignition is as hot as a spark plug is capable of, I'm not worried the drill won't start in the average temps I am out in. If it hits 44 below, I'll be in the house anyway.
glog
Posted 12/6/2010 5:12 PM (#469254 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Take a small gas grill that takes the 1lb bottle and try to use it in 20 degree or colder weather! The tank freezes up and the grill does not burn or should I say looses the correct pressure! My father worked on several weed trimmers that run on propane gas and the regulators leek gas and they do not work in any kind of cold weather. Take a jiffy 3hp model 30 gas engine and this thing will start in any kind of weather!!!!! I also have a friend that has a truck that can run on propane gas and it will not run in cold weather, he has to switch it over to gas.
Posted 12/7/2010 8:44 AM (#469301 - in reply to #469254) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI
We use 80 to 100 bottles a winter in black cat and sport cat heaters and lanterns. They light immediatey in any temp, even way below zero. The volume of propane in a ratio to size of the tank is, amazingly, the same no matter the tank size, and the pressure is more than adequate. The drill starts using a hot ignition source, and runs fine in cold weather.
If what you are saying was true, propane would be unusable in cold weather for the very equipment we use every day all winter long on the ice and back at the house.It sounds like the weed trimmers your dad worked on need better regulators, and are not designed for winter use. The 4 has neither issue.
We stopped using dual fuel lanterns long ago in favor of propane.
Posted 12/7/2010 8:50 PM (#469445 - in reply to #469418) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
i can't imagine using 85 - 100 cans a season ... and i know i'm on the ice more than you are TJ. there's gotta be at least a little fib in there somewhere.
Posted 12/7/2010 9:42 PM (#469465 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
That was me Sled, on TJ's I Pad from the road, I forgot to log him out and log me in. And there's no fib at all, between Keith, me, TJ, and the entire OFM crew headquartered here, we used over a hundred last year. Run 4 heaters and as many as three lanterns at a time, and there you have it. If you want to call me a liar or insult me for my choice of winter gear, have at it, quite a bit of that propane is spent keeping the ladies and grandkids warm. Tell Sue she doesn't dress warm enough; insult her winter gear choices, perhaps, but I strongly recommend you do so from a considerable distance.
That said, I picked up my new Pro4 today. You can see it's performance in about 30 videos this winter from OFM on the Ice and icefishingFIRST, we'll see how she does!
For that matter, Sled, we are GOING to fish together on the ice this year a couple times, try her yourself.
Posted 12/8/2010 4:01 PM (#469591 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Picked up another drill yesterday, a Jiffy Electric 10" model. No fuel at all on board, just a self contained battery that should go 25 holes, plenty for me most days. Should be cool.
Posted 12/8/2010 8:41 PM (#469643 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Steve,
You should also be able to use cables to hook that electric auger up to an external battery source if you need more power or the onboard battery is dead. I could be worng depending on model but I know thats how our electric Jiffy works. I've found with thick ice and real cold temps the self contained battery starts loosing oomph before the battery hits half charge. Hook it up to the truck battery, or a deep cycle battery you might have in teh shack and your good to go.
The Ice Gator looks to teb the real ticket when it comes to electric augers. Have been considering buying one the past couple years to replace out Jiffy Lectric but with this new Pro 4 I am thinking about going that route instead.
I am also thinking that for more than a couple folks this animosity towards this new propane powered auger has to do with a dislike of anything they view as being "green". I even heard a couple guys at the show last Saturday going back and forth about how this was obviously just some sort of liberal agenda to get rid of 2 stroke gas engines. Pretty tough to argue with that kind of "logic" I guess.
Posted 12/9/2010 7:36 AM (#469693 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek
Sled's post sums it up for me. I can't find the little green buggers for under $3 and when they're spent what the heck do I do with em? Electric would be "green" but I'm going to wait till they've been around a while. Too many burnt up motors and dead batteries on the ones I've seen, though I haven't seen a Jiffy electric yet.
Posted 12/9/2010 8:11 AM (#469700 - in reply to #469693) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
I'm not saying that is my opinion. It is what I have overheard others saying. Like I said, tough to argue that sort of "logic". My guess is those folks view it as "green" based on the low emissions and the way its marketed on those low emissions. In fact when I overheard the 2 guys talking about it being part of a liberal agenda, it was while they were running the auger inside the show, talking about how they could do so because of the low exhaust emissions. It also seemed as if those 2 already had some opinions on "liberals" trying to take away 2 cycle engines. Then given what appears to be a level of "animosity" towards this new auger got me wondering how many share those thoughts/views. Just seems odd that guys would get worked up and try to talk others out of buying something by saying it wont work, even though they have never used the product.
Also, you guys do know you can buy an attachment for your 20lb tanks to refill the 1lb'ers? I dont like refilling them more than a couple times since I get concerned over the valve starting to leak. But definitely better than tossing them after a single use.
I also dont see any reason why this auger couldnt be ran with a hose off a larger tank, the same as you would with a heater or lantern. I know I plan on giving it a try once I pick mine up.
Flameauski,
The Jiffy Lectric auger has been out for years, as has the Strikemaster model. I know our Jiffy Lectric is at least 10 years old and I am sure they were making them well before we bought ours. My only issue with them is the rpm and torque are lacking vs a gas powered drill. when your used to watching that auger spin through the ice and then go to a speed that seems only a little faster than a hand drill it gets annoying. But it serves the purpose it was bought for, and thats drilling inside the permie and the wheelhouse. The IceGator augers seem to have quite a bit more power and torque than the others. And maybe the newer Jiffys or Strikemasters have more power than our older one, I really dont know.
Posted 12/9/2010 8:40 AM (#469708 - in reply to #469705) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Sled,
That sort of thing went by the wayside years ago for most. Might just be why our effed up political system works the way it does. People vote for the propaganda instead of the reality, because they are either unwilling or unable to subject what they are being told to the slightest level of critical thought.
Can you use that fundamental logic to explain to me why this auger will be junk in cold weather, while all my other propane fired equipment for ice fishing wont be? How is it my propane fueled heater will keep me warm enough to fish in those conditions, except my propane fired auger wont work so I will have no holes to fish through? Seems like sort of flawed logic to me anyway.
Posted 12/9/2010 9:53 AM (#469717 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Sled,
My apologies for the last part of my previous post. reading back through the thread I realize you arent one of the guys saying this auger wouldnt work.
Posted 12/9/2010 9:55 AM (#469718 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1270
castmaster, you have never had problems with propane heaters not working in the cold? I have it happen every year, I need to take the bottle inside my vehicle to warm them up a lot of times before they will work. And yes I know that you could do the same with the propane bottles for the auger. I don't see anomosity towards this new auger, just a little concern about it. In a couple months we will know if there are any problems or not.
Yes there is an attachment to fill the 1lb. cans off of the larger thanks but check legality of them before driving down a highway with a re-filled 1lb. tank in your vehicle!
Posted 12/9/2010 10:16 AM (#469720 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 582
all this discussion and yet no one has given a very good reason for this product other than its "just different". But again, i really wish we could determine the big need over a 2S gas operated auger that works and has worked for years for about $125.
Posted 12/9/2010 11:02 AM (#469727 - in reply to #469718) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
reelman - 12/9/2010 9:55 AM
castmaster, you have never had problems with propane heaters not working in the cold? I have it happen every year, I need to take the bottle inside my vehicle to warm them up a lot of times before they will work. And yes I know that you could do the same with the propane bottles for the auger. I don't see anomosity towards this new auger, just a little concern about it. In a couple months we will know if there are any problems or not.
Yes there is an attachment to fill the 1lb. cans off of the larger thanks but check legality of them before driving down a highway with a re-filled 1lb. tank in your vehicle!
Not sure why I even typed this as it will probably be deleted by the powers that be like my other posts on this thread!
Be very careful about storing Propane Bottles inside a car or truck, if one would roll under a seat and come summer when a car/truck inside can get over 150 degrees that Propane bottle will blow off the relief valve and fill the inside of your car/truck with Propane. So I would never store Propane inside of any truck or car. Glad to see Jiffy has options about fuel source.
Posted 12/9/2010 11:12 AM (#469731 - in reply to #469649) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 8772
jonnysled - 12/8/2010 9:12 PM
explain to me how 1lb. propane tanks are "green" other than their color?? one of the single biggest pains in the butt to dispose of.
i understand the product and understand the market and opening for it, but "green"?? LOL gimme a break.
Sled, let's not forget that these are often the same people who promote electric cars as being "green" as if the electricity to charge them just magically comes out the wall instead of from a coal fired power plant. These are the people who will boast to everyone about how they drive a hybrid, but neglect to mention that it's an SUV, or that they drive it 60 miles each way to work every day...
Posted 12/9/2010 11:15 AM (#469733 - in reply to #469727) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Reelman,
Never had those problems when using a full tank. Have had a time or tow in sub -25 with a near empty tank freezing up. I jsut switched tanks and was good to go.
I'll take my chances driving down the road with one, just as I do when removing the tag from a mattress.
Also, I memory serves me those regs only apply to transport in commercial vehicles? I'll have to check a bottle to see.
Jackson,
There have been many reasons given why some feel this is a nice new alternative. Use of a fuel source that is already present and used for other equipment. Clean burning with VERY low exhaust, nice feature when drilling inside a permanent or wheel house, especially a nice one. No need to "summerize" motor for long term offseason storage (other than maybe wanting to try and fog cylinders somehow). No worrying about a gummed up carb or fouled plugs. No dealing with mixing gas, carrying a gas tank with (yes some guys actually use their augers enough that they use more than 1 tank a season. Some of us even have to refill the tank over the course of a weekend trip!)
Its also a nice alternative to those of us who currently own both a gas auger and a electric auger(for drilling in the permie and wheelhouse). I will hopefully be able to get by with just one auger instead of bringing the electric to drill our holes in the wheelhouse and hte gas one for venturing out in the portable.
Posted 12/9/2010 11:16 AM (#469734 - in reply to #469718) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 8772
reelman - 12/9/2010 9:55 AM
[...]
Yes there is an attachment to fill the 1lb. cans off of the larger thanks but check legality of them before driving down a highway with a re-filled 1lb. tank in your vehicle! [...]
What is the penalty for having a refilled propane canister in your vehicle? How would they know?
Posted 12/9/2010 12:34 PM (#469747 - in reply to #469733) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 582
okay castmaster.. i am not blaming anyone for wanting one of these. YOu have your reasons and they are legit. I am merely stating that i can't see the big advantage. I also can't see this as this being such a "must have" because it's "so much better" than what has worked for years.
Just seems like that new musky lure that some pro caught a fish on and everyone then has to have for no other reason than it's the in thing. Put it this way,, make it the same price as a traditional gas powered one and see what people prefer. But if it costs more and i am sure it does.. .probably double... that's what i have a hard time with.
Posted 12/9/2010 12:49 PM (#469750 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI
I believe propane is considered green due to less pollution given off during burn. So the bottle itself per say is not green. Not unless there becomes a recycling center for them, and they are in turn refilled appropriately and resold. Like Recycled paper. That would make sense to do since so many people use the 1lb canisters now days.
I for one like the idea of the propane drill. No more black exhaust on my jackets! I drill a pile of holes a day, and while caring the running auger from hole to hole it eventually “carbons” up my jacket. Why go away from gas? Apparently no one has noticed how dependant we are on oil. The less we can rely on it in my opinion the better. That is until we run into the same situation with natural gas….Oh boy.
Anyway the argument with cold weather doesn’t hold much with me either. Gas starts a lot harder in the very cold so what is the difference? My Mr heater starts just fine in 0° weather. Not sure where people are having troubles with propane in the winter. Maybe I have been lucky.
Why not to use gas…#1 is pollution (carbon foot print) . #2 is maintenance of gummed up carbs/injectors. No need for a tune up after 5-10 years. #3 No issues with gas containing ethanol (see #2). It is advised to not use gas containing ethanol in small engines. #4 no worry about spills and gas on hands. #5 (disclaimer as I think) I think propane actually produces more horsepower than gas. I have heard of guys injecting diesel trucks with propane (like Nitrous) for increased power, and know some have tractors for tractor pulling that use propane. #6 is less dependency on oil which means less dependency on foreign countries supplying it. Which in turn means some countries don’t have as much bargaining power, or in other words they don’t have us by the balls.
Why not to use propane per what I am hearing. #1 perceived poor operation in sub-zero weather (which is how often in reality?) #2 cost of propane cylinder. However I would not doubt gas will continue to rise in cost. #3 cost of drill.
Sounds like weight is awash. My assumption is due to the fact that they may need to beef up the motor a bit to handle the combustion of propane, but I could be wrong.
Posted 12/9/2010 1:06 PM (#469753 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI
Just to add. Engines running on propane tend to last longer since they run cleaner. Meaning no carbon buildup like you would get with gas. Carbon buildup reduces engine life.
Also found that the octane rating for propane is 110.
And oh yeh unlike 2-stroke run augers you don't need to buy oil to mix with it. One less hassel.
Propane also has a much longer shelf life than gas. No need to worry about it going "stale".
There are innovators, and then there are followers!
I am sure there were skeptics about the Vexilar when they first came out, and if the 3 colors were really needed. Was it really worth the extra cost?
Posted 12/9/2010 2:20 PM (#469774 - in reply to #469762) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Jackson,
Not sure what brand or what retailer you can get a gas powered auger for $125, but if I was you I'd buy all they have and resell them. The cheapest gas Strikemaster I can find is $329 and the cheapest jiffy is $309. Strikemasters comparable gas powered 4 stroke is $549 compared to $499 for Jiffy's propane powered 4 stroke. So if your someone in the market for a new 4 stroke auger, you'd actually be paying less for the propane model than you would for a gas model.
Sled,
you are completely missing the point I was making. I wasnt saying it was "green" so thats a great thing about it. I was saying there is an automatic animosity amongst part of our population that they show towards anything THEY view as "green" or feel is marketed in such a manner.
Notice the way you felt a need to bring "engineered in China" and EA decided to throw in his feelings about electric cars and those who drive hybrids etc. Now tell me how some dont have an "animosity" or whatever you would want to call it, towards such things. SOME seem to view anything seen as "green" as akin to tree hugging wolf petting granola eaters, so it just HAS to be bad.
Posted 12/9/2010 2:29 PM (#469775 - in reply to #469774) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
i saw the auger, i've understood the selling points and truly see where this product fits some fishing, transport and use.
then, in defense to challenges i've seen it "oversold" for lack of a better word. weight, conditions of use and other variables support the very fact jiffy has a complete product line and not solely propane-powered 4-strokes. if you want to learn about which model fits you best, just talk to a qualified jiffy representative who is not "mis-representing" their product. the discussion on this thread has hovered on the boundary of the absurd ... i'm simply calling it that.
my personal choice is different than yours and that's why there are red ones, yellow ones, aqua blue ones, light ones, heavy ones, electric ones, gas and propane ones. but please don't tell me that one auger is going to change the planet please ... an admitted embellishment, but not far off-base.
God i hope the humans don't get in line behind the lemings in my lifetime.
and castmaster, you are one poster ... no harm done toward me so no need to apologize. i'm debating the subject and not any particular person. always the best policy not to throw b.s. to a group of b.s.'ers though.
Posted 12/9/2010 2:47 PM (#469777 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 232
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
One hundred of those little tanks, equals over $ 200, and alot of little metal tanks laying around in a land-fill or someother place. Yes, they are ez to use and sometimes the best thing available, but I use a 20lb. tank that I exchange when mt. and costs between $ 12.95 to $ 19.95. Lasts all season in the deer blind with my Buddie heater.
Another issue is the fact that some people will end up leaving the mt tanks on the ice like they do their garbage now. (I know no one on this forum would ever do this, but we have all seen it)
This product does have its place, but is not for everyone, just another tool to be used.
Posted 12/9/2010 2:56 PM (#469778 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI
In a way this is almost like the debate between 2-stroke and 4-stroke outboards!
I agree with the last post.
guest
Posted 12/9/2010 3:16 PM (#469781 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Sled, we get your a Strikemaster user, that's fine, so why all the drama on this one? The Pro 4 is another option, like it or not, more options the better in my opinion.
The arguing and debating on this topic has to be one of the silliest I've ever seen on this website. I don't get why everyone has lost their mind over a new auger.
Posted 12/9/2010 4:59 PM (#469796 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot
This is one of those products that you can slap yourself in the face asking "why didn't I think of this". The biggest reason why my family never got a gas auger is because the gas was always such a pain in the butt. Great idea!
pepsiboy
Posted 12/9/2010 5:18 PM (#469800 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
by experience in construction all the thing that work with propane like a skyjack dosnt work well when the temp are cold,work way much better with gaz.i just hope thats not the same thing for that drill
Posted 12/9/2010 6:52 PM (#469810 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
OFM introduced a new product. It IS innovative, and there will be a solid community of ice anglers who love the drill for what it was designed to do. Jiffy was sold out on this model for months and is trying to keep up with the demand from retailers, so someone must want this drill.
We hardly 'oversold' anything...we attempted to correct misconceptions where possible, and even suggested those disinterested or not in the market or looking to act out should simply vacate the debate, but some folks unwilling to learn about the product because the 'prefer' other brands, or already have a drill and see no need for a new one, or don't ice fish in the first place or do and do not own a power drill continue to argue. heck, just don't buy the drill if that's how you feel. Doesn't mean I'm wrong to like the concept and the product. I LIKE the quiet operation when compared to the gasoline models and will be very happy to rid my self of gasoline stink and exhaust stink, but that's me...and I own both. Heck, now I own all three...the new electric with the new glass mat deep cycle on board passed muster in testing last year with flying colors, and THAT feller I am very interested in using. 25 holes was no problem, and the unit can run off any 12 volt source whenever necessary. For most of my trips, that drill will be onboard the Frabill. 10" holes...talk about torque. And reelman, Jiffy has a coating on the bottom of the drills that sheds the 'ripper' shavings easily, solving the clogging you insisted had to be happening. Read about it at www.jiffyonice.com. It works!
If you like a competitive model, GREAT...that's not the subject at hand. If you don't like propane, for goodness sake, buy a gasoline drill or stick with the one you have....or be truly green and use a hand drill.
Most folks will use about a half dozen propane bottles on this drill a year...or less. I'll use far more warming the shelters and lighting the shelters. I did, however, buy a couple new Frabill Shelter Lights...maybe the propane lantern will go to the back of the garage for ice fishing due to LED technology just like it did for tracking deer. I enjoyed the cleaner burn than the dual fuel Coleman, but that's me, and if I don't have to light the lantern ever again, I'd be OK with that. Dangerous critters, those are.
Power users like me probably won't use a considerable amount more than 10 bottles. That's about 450 holes if cutting one a minute of operation. Proper disposal of the tank after use is necessary, but I'm already aware of that since I use them for heating and lighting my shelter and use far more than most folks do. They need to be brought to a recycling center, where they are properly handled, or emptied and drilled properly which I sometimes accomplish with an M44 and some FMG Russian rounds 150 yards out. I properly recycle my aluminum cans, and don't drink water from disposable plastic bottles without doing the same. Now I must beg forgiveness from those who refill beer bottles, (s), I have yet to learn that 'green' craft, and should....but I am constantly fooled by Miller brewing's 'marketing'.
Many landfills will not accept propane tanks of any size without processing by a recycler so they they are many times handled more carefully for the environment than say..plastic pop bottles. Recycling properly is up to the consumer, and there are far more villainous products out there than propane bottles. They are...after all, made of steel.
As far as the green aspect of the operation of a propane ice drill, I didn't see or hear Jiffy claim that at all...they claimed exactly what was posted, that it is OK to run that drill inside at a show, yet not one of their gasoline models could be due to pollution from the two stroke non DFI engine. Until someone comes up with a DFI two stroke small engine for this sort of application, it's absolutely correct to say the 4 stroke propane powered engine burns cleaner, but that's just a feature/benefit, not the only attractive thing to me about this auger. As you said, those cutting holes in permanent shacks will appreciate the cleaner burn.
Look at the huge source of information about gasoline powered two stroke small engines and pollution. Eventually, small engines will be added to the EPA targeted list, just like outboards were.
By the way Sled, didn't you say you liked the Nils? A Tanaka engine was what I had on my last one.
Posted 12/9/2010 7:06 PM (#469811 - in reply to #469810) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
the last one i looked at had a german motor, but i am aware they have also used japanese-made tanaka motors and that's why i was looking at the kluge too. i like the pilot and blade of the nils and have done a lot of research on it vs. all the others because it's a little pricier at $575.00. the other alternative is to just get the unit as a hand-auger based on how nice it cuts and maybe lose some weight this winter exercising. as you stated there are pluses and minuses to all these and that's why there are many products across a wide spectrum sold based on how people use the products.
the main things i like about the nils are:
- unique pilot and blade design and resulting cutting
- the power plant
- can be both hand and power auger in one
- i haven't checked out the weight on them yet but already have a light one if that's ever an issue
- and of-course the fancy color
Posted 12/10/2010 7:20 AM (#469837 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 582
ciscokid is now trying to sell this as "green friendly".. oh boy.. I would hardly doubt the amount of gas used in ice augers around the world would have any effect on the so called global warming (even if it was true which its not)..
The tiny amounts of petro used is laughable. Carbon footprint??? what???????? that just took this sales pitch too far.
Posted 12/10/2010 7:34 AM (#469838 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Perfect example of what I just posted. This guy attacks Travis, who neither works for Jiffy or OFM because he talked about the emissions from the 4 stroke propane burning engine and mentions it burns clean, and calls that a 'sales pitch'. I can't say what I REALLY BADLY want to here because Slamr would delete it...as he should.
Look up small engine emissions, especially the two stroke oil/gas mix motors. One of the major contributors out there, albeit mostly lawn gear that's the culprit. No one said that the clean burn assisting the environment is the only reason to buy a 4 stroke clean burning engine on any product, but it can't hurt.
Jiffy sells about 20,000 drills a year according to a newspaper article I read recently. If they were ALL clean burning drills, That's not a HUGE impact, but it is an impact.
Perhaps manufacturers who build or sell the small two stroke motors are looking at future regulation of emissions and getting technology ready for compliance.
Posted 12/10/2010 7:50 AM (#469840 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033
Steve,
Havent seen the Frabil LEDs in action but if they wok well you will LOVE led lighting in your shack. I made the switch 3 years ago and would never go back to a propane lantern again. I run 2 4" round reverse lights from a semi mounted to my center support bar(the one that runs above the sets) and it gives me plenty of light to fish, tie knots etc. Run it right off my vexilar battery, and have gone as long as 2 FULL nights(a good 8 hours a night) before recharging without any issues. Could probably have gone longer if needed. the only only downside, and its very minor and more personal preference, is that the LED lighting, at least what I have, is very cool/cold lighting color when compared to a lantern light. Its that plain white light vs the more yellowish "warm" light from a lantern. Other than that it is truly the cats meow.
Posted 12/10/2010 7:55 AM (#469842 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI
I am not trying to sell the auger. I am not affiliated with Jiffy in any way. So there is no sales pitch from me. Just looking at positive points of the motor unlike some who always want to look at the negative. I list 8+ positives for it and you key in on the "green" one.
As I said to Sled in a PM, what constitutes “green”? In my opinion the motor is *more* “green” than gas engines. Reason being less emissions. Can’t argue the facts.
Again I am not trying to sell the product. I am trying to give a new product a chance though since I have not tried it. You know kind of like innocent until proven guilty deal. Not sure how you can knock a product that you haven’t tried or will never try. This is not just pertinent to the Jiffy thread.
I own a gas auger, and wouldn’t buy this one until that one puked. However, when my gas one pukes I will probably strongly look at a propane auger. I like the concept.
Posted 12/10/2010 8:15 AM (#469846 - in reply to #469811) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 258
Location: Mayville, WI
jonnysled - 12/9/2010 7:06 PM
the main things i like about the nils are:
- i haven't checked out the weight on them yet but already have a light one if that's ever an issue
The nils weighs in @ 13.7 lbs (according to Cabelas). I've got an 8" nils hand auger & don't break out the power auger until 12" of ice. I'm looking at getting the power-head this year so I can go the 2-for-1 route with it & save a ton of weight vs. my 3-hp Jiffy. The jiffy has never let me down, but it's not exactly light.
Posted 12/10/2010 10:08 AM (#469857 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
The Nils weight you quoted is the powerhead alone. One has to add the drill weight to that. I think the entire thing weighs in at about 21 pounds if I remember correctly. I have the hand auger, can't get it to cut anymore. I suspect one of my grandkids tried to drill a hole in the yard.
Will be trying the new LED shelter lights today. Hope the 'eyes are going at least a little on Crescent...
scmuskies
Posted 12/10/2010 12:07 PM (#469872 - in reply to #469857) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Yep, just noticed that. My bad...
Sucks about the dull blades, the darn things are expensive to get sharpened/new ones compared to other models.
Posted 12/10/2010 12:30 PM (#469874 - in reply to #469872) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
similar to the strikemasters ... the blades are the cat's rear, but you nick it just a hair and it's worthless. plan on a spare set of sharp blades on-hand at all times. of-note though, a spare set can be as high as $45.00, but Kurt's Island sports has them for about half that much in a simple envelope for a package. any of you shopping for spares this winter, give Kurt's a call and check it out. pretty good deal ...
Posted 12/10/2010 12:31 PM (#469875 - in reply to #469465) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1536
Location: God's Country......USA..... Western Wisconsin
What this really boils down to, in my opinion, is 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. You can still find two stroke dirt bikes out there but dang few, you have way more trouble finding a two stroke ATV, 2 stroke outboards are still here but for how long? I ran the Yamaha V Max SHO last season and it is AWESOME. Two stroke car or truck....I don't think so. What you are seeing is just the first step in small 4 strokes for the outdoorsman. 2 stroke technology will become a thing of the past eventually I believe. I could be wrong, I have been on several occasions but this looks like the first step that will be followed by others in the near future.
Posted 12/12/2010 9:46 AM (#470135 - in reply to #469884) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes
castmaster - 12/10/2010 1:25 PM
Actually muskyone, Strikemaster came out with a 4 stroke gas powered auger last year or the year prior.
The 4 stroke Strike Lite has been around at least 5 years now, was out a few years before I went to a Nils. Steve theres a guy in Mn that resharpens those Nils blades sharper than new, cost is around $25 I think.
Posted 12/14/2010 11:48 AM (#470535 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI
For what it is worth a buddy of mine got to use the propane Jiffy yesterday in the cold. Granted not below zero (standard temp not windchill), but a cold temp test non the less. In his words “It ran like a top”. His only complaint was the weight of the auger.
Like I said not terribly cold temps yesterday but close to zero. If it is going to have issues running in cold weather I would think that even at zero degrees you would start seeing issues with how the auger ran.
Posted 12/14/2010 7:06 PM (#470632 - in reply to #470535) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Keith ran the Pro 4 today in 2 degrees temps. It was stored in an unheated shed, and was carried to the lake in the back of his pick-up. It has a 1/2 full propane bottle attached. The drill started first pull.
Posted 1/24/2011 8:38 PM (#477525 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1270
I just spent a couple days on Leech Lake and it was COLD up there, down to -25 degrees. The resort owner had one of the new propane Jiffys so I asked him about how it worked in the extreme cold. He stated that the drill worked good in the cold but that once the bottle got about 1/2 full it didn't seem to have the presure to keep running, but he made sure to point out that this was only a problem in the extreme cold, when it was above 0 it would run the tank dry. He also stated that it started great and that he really did like the engine. Unfortunatly he said it still had the same cutting problems that Jiffy Ripper Blades are known for - it would re-cut a hole in his shack but drilling new holes required pulling the auger out of the hole a couple times to unclog the little side ripper blades. This is the exact problem I had with my Jiffy with Ripper blades. Once I removed the side blades it worked fine.
Posted 1/24/2011 9:33 PM (#477537 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Keith and I ran mine in minus 20 with less than 1/4 a bottle with no issues, all the way to empty. We cut dozens of holes in 20" of ice the last couple days during a nasty cold snap with no issues including the blades that are standard, and I was pleasantly surprised that the bottle ran to empty.
If indeed there had been an issue, it's a quick disconnect to warm up the bottle in the shack or truck, but I didn't have to.
When this thread started, you were pretty sure the drill wouldn't work at all in bitter cold and complained about the blades. Now that it has been proven, you add more 'he said' stuff after I JUST said I ran the drill with no issues in well below zero. Odd.
Posted 1/24/2011 9:58 PM (#477544 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 1270
Yours worked with a low tank, my resort owners did not. My buddy and I have the same Mr Buddy heaters and while on Leech his would not start in the morning with the tank he used the day before yet that tank worked fine on mine. That's the goofy thing about propane, you never know what you're getting. I expressed concern about this at the begining of this thread since it was new and propane can be goofy sometimes, after hearing and seeing some being used I still think it's a pretty neat idea and works better than I thought it would. I didn't think the engine would work as good as it does in the cold. Was I wrong? I don;t know because I don;t believe that I ever said it wouldn't work, I said I was concerned about it working in the extreme cold.
I'll stand by the blade thing though. My Jiffy blades would clog all the time, as did other people's I talked to. Once I removed the little side blades it worked great with just the "point" as did all the other's that I spoke to that had the same problems. The resort owner valuntered the information about it not cutting right on fresh holes. Refrozen ice is harder than original ice and this is why I believe that it cut better when re-opening holes. Other people who have these blades do not have the problems, why I don't know.
Posted 1/24/2011 10:15 PM (#477550 - in reply to #468981) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
I have three Jiffy drills with ripper blades and have drilled hundreds of holes with no issues. I think those who don't like the blades may be trying to 'force' the drill by putting downward pressure on it or are rocking the drill back and forth a bit; I let it run and do it's job at it's own rate...which is pretty quick.
Great drill!
The Electric has been flawless too, although I ran it to dead once going walkabout.
Posted 1/26/2011 10:28 AM (#477824 - in reply to #468981) Subject: RE: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Posts: 531
Location: Hugo, MN
A lot of the concern about how other propane powered products and machines run in extreme cold is being misapplied to these new augers. You can't say that because a propane grill loses gas pressure in -20 weather that the same will happen to the auger.
The rate at which the propane boils off will determine the volume of propane gas that be consumed at a given rate. As it boils off, heat is removed from the liquid propane. This causes the tank to frost up when vapor is removed. In extreme ambient conditions, when it's colder than snot, an appliance that uses a high volume of propane, such as heaters, may encounter a lack of vapor pressure. This is due to the fact that the tank is unable to boil off vapor fast enough to keep up with the demand. There just aren't enough btu's in the air during these conditions.
In the case of the auger, the motor sips vapor at a very low rate. If usage is rapid enough under severe cold conditions, a loss of vapor pressure "could" occur. Of course, you could just pace yourself, which I'm assuming most people on this board have to do, for cardiovascular reasons.
I remember the old 49 cc Strikemaster that my buddy had. It leaked gas and unburned oil out of the carbs and exhaust. He had to wrap a garbage bag around it to protect the carpet in his SUV. That's a mess I think anyone can understand. This is a product that completely eliminates this type of mess. I'd buy one if I had a permanent, or didn't have a pickup. It's a great innovation, and more people think so than some on this board would think.
Ranger 26
Posted 1/30/2011 12:58 AM (#478594 - in reply to #469775) Subject: Re: Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
Every one is going back and forth about propane and gas. STRIKE MASTER or Jiffy, I own the pro 4 and have owned gas powered models. This is the way to go, i just bought the ten inch and if your to lazy to drill with this auger even then quit ice fishing. I have two herniated discs and i could and do drill between 6 and twenty holes a day. When ice fishing, My auger is sitting in the entry way of my apartment and the one thing im worried about is getting the carpet wet. This thing is clean. We brought it in our motel room at the Patch at lake of the woods. Also want to say the patch is 65 dollars a night and has a great bar and restraunt. Im a clean freak and this place was clean and the parking lot was well lit. So i didnt have to wory about my gear getting stolen. Back to the auger, my dads friend fust bought a New Strike Master Pro 2 and after his 5th time out wouldnt start. I run my auger 2 to 3 times a week and have never had to worry about my auger starting. If you want clean, quit, power, and reliability then you need to Get a Jiffy PRO 4. Thanks and Good Luck
Jiffy Pro4 Propane Powered Drill
