|
|
Posts: 5
Location: Northern Illinois | What does everyone look for in muskie videos? Education? Entertainment? I have watched a ton , and most seem to lack a lot from a production standpoint, some tend to be muskie porn, and others are ego driven ( look at me) .
Any favorites out there? | |
| | |
| Interest in muskies is regional and limited. Without the large corporate sponsors, as you see for Bass fishing, there isn't enough money in this to support big budget endeavors.
Many of the things you see at a musky show are cottage industry, and the guy behind the booth made it himself. That applies to video, as well.
Even those who have TV shows with heavy musky content tend to struggle in certain areas, one show does a very good job of giving you the feel of a musky hunt, but struggles trying to present tourny coverage, or any information. Another does well in front of the camera, and teaches basics well, but generally fishes similar looking water, usually with similar methods.
I have been a big fan of what the Lindner's have produced over the years, With In Fisherman, and after they left it. Although it's not strictly muskie, They do well in front of a camera, teach well, make good use of computer generated data, electronics,and underwater footage. The production levels, camera work, and editing are generally excellent as well. | |
| | |
Posts: 5
Location: Northern Illinois | Very well put Jim. I agree The Linders do the best job , but I think some of the issues with production and what not is more of a planning and organizational issue. True it does cost lots of money to have all the bells and whistles of a big production, but when you hie someone who has no fishing experience to produce you're film it simply wont look good based on they dont know what to look for. I'm a editor and videographer so I guess it bothers me more than most when I watch the videos and all I can think of is how much better they could be... | |
| | |
Posts: 2361
| mlove - 10/2/2010 8:08 AM
...
I'm a editor...
Really???
 | |
| | |
| I shoot underwater video, (video aqua pher ?) and made one of those home made musky videos several years ago. I know what you mean.
There should be better stuff out there, really. The problem breaks down something like this. If you want to make a GOOD video, you absolutely need someone who is very good in front of the camera. He also needs to be a good fisherman, who can handle fish well and say the right things when holding the fish. You need someone who can shoot the best possible video in a variety of conditions, sometimes very poor conditions. It helps to have a narrator to help build things, and talk up what could be a slow spot. the editor/producer and entire crew needs to be talented, know how to build, change in midstream quickly, and finish. You need a big big muskie to eat, and get a real good take of it. It is good to have another camera boat along so perspective can be changed. You need some underwater video, and someone who is good with computer graphics to detail approach to underwater structure. These days, you probably need a Mac running FCP, and several hi def cameras in waterproof housings.
It comes down to money. Say that video does pretty good, and sells 4000 copies in it's first three years at $20. 80g. Most outlets take 1/3 to 40% to sell it right off the top. Disc reproduction and packaging should come to under $3 dollars a copy. with a website and minimal advertising, you should clear about $10 a copy. 40 thou is is left to cover your equipment, crew and production costs. Those are all up front expenses that have to be met out of pocket before a single dollar is earned unless it is a promotional vid.
I guess thats why we have what have what we have. Homemade , promotional, and low budget stuff.
Maybe Muskie first could run a less than ten minute video contest. Who knows what's out there in someone's camcorder. There could be some untapped talent. | |
| | |
Posts: 32889
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Shooting and editing a project like this professionally would run about $35K for an hour long production using multiple cameramen IF a 'deal' was worked out and the fish cooperated. No post production is considered in this.
There's a huge difference in shooting action for a DVD or a TV show with other content added, and shooting tournament coverage for TV. There's a bigger difference shooting live for wirecast and near live
Final Cut is the standard. I run FCP, excellent way to go for quality. If I want a PC based program that will still output using H264 for our upload site or HD for a DVD, I use Roxio Creator 11. It's not as technically advanced as FCP, but does a nice job on a PC and does a good enough job for a quality DVD..
Minimal advertising won't sell 4000 copies. | |
| | |
| Steve's production cost estimates show that even a somewhat successful video would not break even. You would need the right people willing to work for next to nothing for it all to come together.
I don't even think I would want to attempt muskie tourny coverage. The winning fish is seldom caught on camera, there is no weigh in drama, and coverage often boils down to hoping the winner is a good interview, and some graphics showing finish and overall standings. It doesn't get much tougher than that.
| |
| | |
Posts: 5
Location: Northern Illinois | Very good points both Jim and Steve, but I think you're both forgetting the most important element ..... A GOOD STORY, most everything has been done to some degree, and 99.9 % of the videos have no longevity . I mean there is no real good video , one that you can refer people to ,or watch several times.
Its also amazing what good editing can do, it doesn't have to be full of effects, but it needs to flow, and segway properly. I run FCP on my MAC as well Steve good to know you have it too. It would be cool to have a video contest , count me in!
Yes I'm a editor , and videographer. I was a photojournalist for 3 years out in Vegas until the muskie called me back to the midwest... | |
| | |
Posts: 540
| some of simply fishing's videos have been kinda good over the yrs at least some educational stuff with it and Bucher's stuff and in fisherman too, also I love keyes outdoors. I am often surprised when I see or hear what people like to watch when it comes to fishing muskies nowadays, there is hardly any educational stuff to it at all and by the time they turn the camera on and are filming the fish is half way to the bag already and that's what it is for the whole film 10 fish already hooked and half way to the bag! and then all you hear is a bunch of swearing! and beeped out stuff! | |
| | |
| a good story, and flow are not always present in these shows and videos. They say muskie fishing is one of the few growth areas in sport fishing. Maybe you are the guy who can turn out that masterpiece.
The Muskie crowd is somewhat served by four series that feature regular muskie action, and quite a few videos. But I think a creative and talented person could produce a film that could stand above much of what has been done
I think there is a better, less costly, easier to film opportunity on a nearby river. I often wonder why fly fishing shows ignore spring and fall run fishing. You see hundreds of guys lining the banks of the Great lakes tribs, It is the scene on many streams throughout the Lakes, yet the fishing shows always promote the wilderness fishing. Most trout and salmon fishermen have spent at least some time on these crowded tribs. Show me the reality, trying to play a big fish with other anglers all around, Getting into it with snaggers. center pin rigs, Big kings screaming into the backing, fights and controversy. Now THAT MAKES FOR SOME ACTION VIDEO! I just can't believe that EVERY show and video is so wrapped up in their LL Bean snuggies, trying to build a Disneyland version of the sport that they totally ignore the fact that this is how it really is for most of the people they target to sell product to. | |
| | |
| leech lake strain - 10/2/2010 8:26 PM
some of simply fishing's videos have been kinda good over the yrs at least some educational stuff with it and Bucher's stuff and in fisherman too, also I love keyes outdoors. I am often surprised when I see or hear what people like to watch when it comes to fishing muskies nowadays, there is hardly any educational stuff to it at all and by the time they turn the camera on and are filming the fish is half way to the bag already and that's what it is for the whole film 10 fish already hooked and half way to the bag! and then all you hear is a bunch of swearing! and beeped out stuff!
Yeah, the 10 fish "money shot" muskie porn. To each his own, I guess.
No one makes you feel like your right there in the boat like mike Keyes. They nail it in that regard. I think one of the staff passed away in the first or second season, He explained things well, and was a big loss. I like the show, and mike.
Joe B is good too. I like the three segment format. Fishin' with his dog, blues guitar, and enjoying life.
Something about simply Bob rubs me the wrong way. I actually enjoy when he looses one at boat side. I end up rooting for the fish!
| |
| | |
Posts: 540
| yah that why I said Simply fishing was kinda good too lol. I think the only reason I did like it a little was because of the more educational parts to it. | |
| | |
| my favorite video i think would be don schwartz' "muskie" intervention". great footage and tips and info throughout, and his presence in front of the camera if enjoyable. no ego, attitude, or blatant plugs for tackle companies, just a guy who loves muskie fishing. can't wait til his next one... | |
| | |
Posts: 317
| I can't believe no one mentioned the Badfish videos. I think they are produced well, have a very good, rotating cast of characters, and have some great footage. | |
| | |
| I have an early badfish video, it may have been their first. That one was just muskie porn. I understand some of their later efforts were quite good, I heard muskie town is a pretty good one.
Don Schwartz has some interesting underwater clips from a downrigger set up. | |
| | |
Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | it is what it is dollar wise...but we still have some videos out there and some new ones will come. I like the story theme ideas, but I do believe you need to have some tips hidden in the videos too.
My best memories were crowded into a cabin in the northwoods, freezing, till the campstove caught up. Gathering around the lake map every night after a bare bones meal a couple cocktails and off to bed. Up at 4:00 a.m. to do it all again until we could not do it anymore at night. Strong coffee...great stories, and hating being stuck in the cabin. After all that including that ice cold privy it would be about a week and I would start thinking about next year. This was a time when success was not measured by the guy but by the group. You could have excellent fishing trip but everyone shared the victory & what we learned along the way. | |
| |
|
Videos