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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | Running the Lund Predator 2010 SS with 225 HP Optimax. Great Rig however, I'm trying to figure out why she runs so flat.
The motor is in the second hole below the top and has a 4 blade SS Vensura prop.
The boat has good speed but at least 2/3rds of the boat or more are still in the water while at full speed.
Still get 53 to 55 mph out of her and she rides thru big waves and wakes with no problem. My question is, is this normal " plane " for this rig?
Some that have been in the boat think that it rides to flat. I'm not a speed freak. I just want to make sure that I'm not over stressing the motor or the boat for that matter.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Does anyone else run this rig and if so how does she ride?
Thanks, Denny |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
With what you describe, it sounds like the motor is mounted one hole up off the transom, which I would say is too low for the horsepower you have...
First and foremost, with your normal load in the boat, what kind of RPM's are you getting out of the motor, assuming you are trimming the motor up at full speed until it either starts to ventilate or porpoise? Reason for asking this is to help determine what might be able to be "tweaked" so to speak.
I'll help out if I can...not totally sure of the prop you have on there other than it is a saltwater prop designed to give good bow lift. I am betting there is more speed and handling to be found yet, and that might include a change in prop, depending on how you want the boat to perform for your style of fishing.
I do believe many of the lund boats do ride flat....the video of the 2010 predator that was covered on this site looks to ride that way as well. Quick google and you'll find it.
Steve
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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | Thanks for the reply Steve. The motor is on the second hole which, is 1 hole up off the transom.
Full power on highest trim that's comfortable, I'll get up to 5800rpm or right around there. The boat is so quick out of the hole it's unreal. I believe that's coming from the prop.
I'm usually running two guys with a whole lot of musky tackle. I've put on a few pounds since I quit smoking and my partner is no light weight.
Let me know what you think. I was thinking about going to a 3 blade prop. As far as the motor location that's the way she was set up when I bought her.
Thanks, Denny |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Denny,
With a steel prop, I would bet you can raise that motor at least one more hole and it will still grab the water well.
If you decided to try a few other props, mercury's Tempest series gets great reviews. It has the capability to lift the entire boat due to it's design with trailing edge cupping (stern lift) and tip cupping (bow lift) with a decent amount of Rake as well. This is a 3-blade prop, so if you try one, I would bet you could go up an inch or so in pitch due to one less blade creating more friction. I would bet you might not see much difference in handling either.
Definitely room to work, though since your max RPM's on the motor is 6000 and you are at 5800. Might slow your hole-shot just a bit, but the prop is also vented, so it will wind up a bit before it jumps out of the hole.
The main issue with any prop change is to try a few different ones and spend some time at the lake testing hole shot, handling and speed. One will stick out among the others. It would not surprise me that if you decided to go through this process that you will see another 3 - 4mph and not lose much of anything in terms of handling. It can be a fun process.
Not sure if you will feel the actual bow rise any more...but the boat will ride higher.
Steve |
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Posts: 247
Location: Uxbridge Ontario | http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/videos/05.01.2009/1486/Lund.Predato...
Here is that Vid that Steve was talking about. I have spoken with one of the designers of the boat (Andy Pallotta) here in Ontario and he was saying that as a V boat, they are not designed to run the last 1/3 of the boat like bass boats. You can run them there with setup and will increase speed, however you will drastically reduce the ride and comfort level. He went on to say that many guy typically try to setup their proVs like this too an usually describe the ride as harsh. The v boats (similar to Ranger 620s) are designed to ride flat and have the V bottom used to its capacity... displace water. This is one for smooth big water/ big wave ride and two keep you dry.
However, saying your boat run 53mph... it does sound like you are down a few MPH. Rigged with a 225, you should be between 58-60+mph (from what I am told). |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
After watching that video again it definitely rides flat, but the spray is well behind the driver as well. I do think with a prop change and a motor height change you can get to this as well. I would tend to agree the speed is a bit low as compared...
How much are you trimming the motor? In the video, you'll notice the motor is trimmed quite a bit which is not all that bad until you start to get a rooster tail that is above the hood on the motor. Anything higher than that and things are not as efficient.
I think a prop that has more stern lift will get you some good gains...
Steve |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | We've got a few Lund employees running around here at the Anglers Insight Marketing tournament, I will see if they know or can find out easily as to what hole and prop is the best for this rig. |
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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | Hey, I want to thank you guys for all your thoughts and information. I actually bought the boat from Kenny Olson ( the guy that did the video ). We fished together for a season and I fell in love with the rig !!!
I'm thinking I'll at least try the 3 blade prop and see what that does. I definitely don't want to ruin the ride the boat has. It is really a great ride in big water/waves.
Steve, when you say go up an inch on the prop which way do you mean, 22 or 20 ?
If there is anymore input TJ on this I'll gladly listen to any more you guys come up with. As far as trying different props is there anyone out there that lets you run a prop to try it out before you purchase. Don't think the marina I deal with would go that route. I'll also talk to the mechanic at the marina about raising the motor for me just to try it out.
Thanks again Fellas for your help on this. Denny
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | What prop did Kenny Olson have on it when he sold you the boat? I was in his boat also and he had that finely tuned! However he had it setup, then I'd keep it exactly how he had it. |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
Go up one inch in pitch from what you have now. So..if you are running a 19 pitch prop, try a 20 or a 21.
I am one who will disagree with leaving the boat as it is....what fun is that? 
In most cases, the factory recommended set-up is what gets rigged. That usually includes the lowest or one hole up, and a prop that will give good overall performance for what people want. Unfortunately, though, there is much more to be found out there with aftermarket props, jack plates, or even simple things like just raising the motor a hole.
I think there is much more room to play than where the boat is set up now. It might take a 4 blade yet, but I am betting there is a better prop and height combination than what is currently on the rig.
There will be places that will let you run demo props (blue in color from what I have seen). That is a matter of calling around to see what you can find out. If you find a dealer/prop shop that does this, I would highly recommend taking some time to test a few different combinations: Both 3 and 4 blade. The 4 blade props will always give you good hole shot, handling, and good lift with cupping in the right areas. 3 blade props will give you decent hole shot (better with vent holes) and more speed. With good cup all around the trailing edge, these props can really get your boat going well.
It's a fun thing to do if you like to tinker....
Steve |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | VMS, I disagree in this instance. The boat Denny bought was from a Lund factory pro staffer and was dialed in directly from the factory.. I personally rode in that boat and know that Kenny had that boat very dialed in. If I remember right, we were running in the high 50's and maybe low 60's, can't remember for sure.
Denny, if you changed the prop from what Kenny had on it, it for sure will change the setup a little I'm guessing. If you have questions about the boat, I'd contact Kenny, I know he'd be happy to help you. |
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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | TJ.
This is the 08/09 boat Kenny had. The Prop is the same that Kenny had on it. I believe that Kenny actually changed from a 3 blade to the current 4 blade before he gave it to me. Don't know why.
I have not changed a thing from the time I bought the boat from Ken. When Ken and I fished out of it we could only get 53/54 mph and I believe that was with the 3 blade prop.
I've talked with Ken and he really didn't have any suggestions thinking the boat runs just fine.
It's just so flat that even looking at the video of the 2010 that Ken did my boat runs much flatter then what's on the video.
I have no problem trying to tweak it if I can.
Thanks, Denny
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
Something you can check is the trailing edge of the hull right by the transom. What you may be able to do is peen that back edge up a bit evenly on both sides which will allow the bow to come up easier. This would allow the bow to ride higher, to get less wetted surface.
My rig had to have the opposite done, where the manufacturer peened the rear up too much which didn't allow me to trim up at all. So..they went the opposite way, then I adjusted from there. There will be some people who would be a bit heistant to bang a hammer on their boat, but if one takes their time, it can be done and adjusted well.
I think TJ and I will agree to disagree on this one...
Steve |
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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | Well I talked with Ken. I explained what was going on and he agreed that my boat did run real flat.
Ken was having the same problem with his boat and he talked with one of the engineers at Lund who recomended that he do the same thing that you suggested Steve. I've got the ball peen hammer ready and waiting. I'm gonna give it a shot tomorrow. I think I'll take it in steps ....a little at a time. Got water 10 minutes from the house so I can check it out as I go.
Ken also suggested using a jack plate. He's gonig with one on his boat. I'm gonna stick with the hammer fix first and go from there. We discussed the 3 blade prop which yes was on the boat before I got it. The 4 blade is great for handling and hole shot. I'll stick with it for now and try one thing at a time. Handling is definetly more important to me then speed.
I'll let you guys know how this goes.
Thanks again for all your suggestions. Denny |
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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | Well I talked with Ken. I explained what was going on and he agreed that my boat did run real flat.
Ken was having the same problem with his boat and he talked with one of the engineers at Lund who recomended that he do the same thing that you suggested Steve. I've got the ball peen hammer ready and waiting. I'm gonna give it a shot tomorrow. I think I'll take it in steps ....a little at a time. Got water 10 minutes from the house so I can check it out as I go.
Ken also suggested using a jack plate. He's gonig with one on his boat. I'm gonna stick with the hammer fix first and go from there. We discussed the 3 blade prop which yes was on the boat before I got it. The 4 blade is great for handling and hole shot. I'll stick with it for now and try one thing at a time. Handling is definetly more important to me then speed.
I'll let you guys know how this goes.
Thanks again for all your suggestions. Denny |
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Posts: 37
Location: Coal City Illinois | Well I tried the hammer on the transom edge and have found no difference in the way the boat trims out. She still runs as flat as ever. It took me a while to go through with this as I wasn't real keen on putting a hammer to it.
I guess the next step will be to change the prop to a 3 blade and see what that does. Also need to pick up some paint to touch up the area which was hammered....my wife thinks I'm crazy for this one!!
Running the 4 blade now, will go to a 3 blade and see if she does any better. Sure would like to get the bow up a little more and maybe pick up a couple MPH.
Denny |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | A 3 blade like the Tempest Plus is made to give you better bow lift while a 4 and 5 blade is for better hole shot and getting the rear end up. I'm guessing either a 21 or 23 Tempest will be what you'll want on that rig. |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I would agree...find a good 3 blade with high rake and or good tip cupping on the blades. The Tempest is a great prop to try. Lots of people love them. They stay hooked up at high trim angles and higher motor heights.
Steve |
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Posts: 422
| does tip cupping increase or decrease rpms, and from whay I read, tip cupping increases bow lift? |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Try the Tempest Plus first, that should fit your needs well and it'll have the right cupping you need. Unless you have a good prop guy, I wouldn't dare trying to change a prop if you don't know what your doing. |
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| To answer the question on tip cupping:
It will lift the bow, but it will also reduce RPMs as well. It is definitely a balancing act to find the right combination of all variables.
The Tempest plus will have all of that designed in the prop (as TJ stated)...definitely give it a try...
Steve |
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Posts: 247
Location: Uxbridge Ontario | I know this is an older post... but I had a few questions on it. I just picked up my 2011 Predator 2010 with 225ProXS. I run a 21p Tempest and run 55.5mph on gps but only at 5500rpm. This is with a full load and loaded live wells.
Dennis, what did you end up with for a prop selection and what kind of number are you now running.
Any suggestions for me? |
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Lund Predator 2010 SS