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Location: Madtown, WI | OK, I got my data transferred. All my icons are now way points.
Here is ONE of my issues. Now all these icons (that are now waypoints) are showing up with the name ICON on the screen for every single mark I put down....you know how many I have for a given weedline?? all the ICON words cluttering the screen I can't even see the marks! Plus whos bright idea was it to change a fully colored in green or blue X on the old units to a clear middle slightly shaded green or blue X on the new units...talk about harder to see. Looks "Cleaner or more advanced" when your up close at cabalas looking at it....but in the boat when the unit is at your feet...MAN its hard to see them...
Don't get me started on now I can't take my data from my LCX that is now saved on my HD and move it BACK to my LCX since now its all waypoints instead of icons...and now I have more than the 1000 allowable waypoints on the LCX...
I digress...
So my question is, has lowrance come up with a solution to fix this, other than me going into every one of my "ICON" 's and changing it to not show the name??
signed....a very frustrated lowrance supporter... |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | In your current situation, the only way to fix things is to rename each one of them. I just double checked with our Lowrance Tech and he confirmed to me that's your only option if you don't want each one of them to read Icon 1, Icon 2, etc. |
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| I have been running a new HDS 7 alongside my LCX 111 for about a month now. I have had to make some of the same transfers Cory mentioned, but with slightly different results, though a similar amount of associated head pain.
I was able to save all of my info to the card and load onto the HDS 7, with all of my icons showing up as icons and all of my waypoints as numbered waypoints. There is no "icon" next to the icons. However, when I saved the info to the HDS 7, my LCX was on and networked, and it translated all of my icons into waypoints on my 111, and it showed all of my icons on that unit with 'icon' next to it. I erased the entire 111, and loaded the data from the card and I was back where I started. I then erased everything off my HDS 7 and tried it again, but with the 111 turned off. This time it worked, and when I powered the 111 back up, everything was fine.
My main issue is with my 111 being completely full of icons now and almost full of waypoints. I don't like that I now have to use a waypoint from the HDS to mark weeds or structure where I once used icons, as I always used icons for the structure I wanted to work out from, and waypoints where I'd hooked or seen fish knowing I could go right back to them. Will take a culture shift, but I've no choice but to get used to it. Now to learn to manage my icons and waypoints for my 111 now that it is full. What software program do you guys recomend as being best for this?
Cory, you might also make sure that you HDS has the newest software(3.0 I beleive). You had once mentioned that yours did not read the Lakemaster cards, which it should/will with the proper software/settings. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | ok my bad.. I will ask it in "pc" way....TJ, can you ask your Lowrance guru when and if they are ever going to make the switch over from LCX to HDS a smoother transition w/ regards to icons...makes no sense to me..why they would make it so difficult..they are losing buyers and business because of it....true statement. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad, I'd assume Lowrance figured no one marks icon or waypoint every 10 feet along a weedline. That would be my guess. Isn't a locator suppose to be used to travel along a weedline? This is so very intriguing to me to think some guys have all these icons marking weedlines. Use your sonar, watch your depth and go.
I've never had a problem filling mine, along with many many others I know who have never had issues.
Reef, we've covered this issue, how do I know this? I made the same very phone call to a Lowrance Tech about this exact issue, it's been covered. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Majority of the pros use a NavPlanner. Navionics just came out with NavPlanner2, check it out.
http://www.navionics.com/MarineFeatures_NavPlanner2.asp |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Many many many guys use the GPS exactly the way I do ... 1000 icons is nothing...take a 10,000 acre lake and mark it up...it will be filled....I'm not bitching..it's an honest question that I think your Lowrance engineer would have thought thru... I'm no engineer but it seems asss backwards to take icons from one unit and not have them be transferred as icons to the "newer/better" unit....doesn't it???
they are losing customers for many reasons and this is one of them.... |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | lambeau - 8/19/2010 9:04 PM
I'd assume Lowrance figured no one marks icon or waypoint every 10 feet along a weedline. That would be my guess. Isn't a locator suppose to be used to travel along a weedline? This is so very intriguing to me to think some guys have all these icons marking weedlines. Use your sonar, watch your depth and go, this isn't rocket science.
oh my, please tell me you didn't just say that.
maybe i'm crazy, but sometimes i like to know where the rock point or the inside weed turn is at without putting my boat ON TOP of it...
USE A WAYPOINT! I use the Navionics NavPlanner2. If I'm at a lake and I lay down a bunch of waypoints, then I save them to a card and bring them back to put on the computer. Load the files you need before you go next time, that's how all the pros do it! Make sure to start fresh with an empty unit and an empty SD card each time.
Not having the Icon feature sucks, but not all Lowrance users use the unit like you. Ask any of the bass guys how they use there unit, I'll bet you it has something to do with them! |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I sure in the heck don't have a problem following a weedline without an icon/waypoint every 10 ft. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | then you don't fish enough. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad, from talking with some of the biggest bass guys out there, when they find a spot they will use in a tournament, they simply put a waypoint in. Meaning that is a spot they'd come back to during the tournament. Watch Bassmaster on ESPN sometime, they talk about this numerous times throughout a season. They don't lay out trails along a weedline I promise you that!
Edited by TJ DeVoe 8/19/2010 9:15 PM
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Location: Racine, Wi |
 Gotta say, I'm with Cory, Brad, and Reefer on this one. I have waaaay too many icons on my GPS, and guess what, I use my locator at the same time as the GPS as well as chewing gum. Talk about multi tasking. Although, I do have a tendency to screw the words up to songs that I'm singing while looking at the GPS, locator, chewing gum though, so I'll have to work harder on this.
However, I'm not a pro by any means, so that may discredit any of what I mentioned above. Icons like Lambeau said, make it much easier to map a spot once..... review the icons, then go back and fish it pretty well the first time through. Plus, it gives me something to do on the deep clear lakes on a glass calm sunny day when all I have is warm beer in the cooler. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Joel, I use tracks. Lay out icons/now waypoints and connect the track through the waypoint. So, then all I have to do is follow the track I used, putting down a waypoint on an inside turn or something that is of significance along the way. I then save the tracks and can pop out the card for a particular lake or area I'm fishing. This saves me 100's of icons and waypoints, plus I have a track to put my arrow on and follow, pretty easy if you ask me, that's if your "good" enough to stay on the track!
Edited by TJ DeVoe 8/19/2010 9:20 PM
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| a "waypoint" is just a spot on the map represented by a little blue circle.
an "icon" is just a spot on the map represented by a picture (weed, fish, rock, etc.)
and here's some secret-squirrel info for you TJ: sometimes a piece of structure has more than one kind of element, thus making it kinda handy to distinguish between them visually with the little picture thingys rather than the little blue circles.
in all seriousness, as someone who cut my GPS teeth using Garmin units, i never really did understand the false distinction that Lowrance made between "waypoints" and "icons" in the first place...and Humminbird that i use now has never done so either; it's more work manually selecting the picture to represent each point up front, but they all transfer from unit to unit with the picture - even across generations.
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| You guys must lack the ability to use your locator then, I sure in the heck don't have a problem following a weedline without an icon/waypoint every 10 ft.
it's true, you can "follow" a weedline pretty easy without icons.
of course, "fishing" it is a different matter entirely.
and a track tells me where my BOAT was at, not where to focus my casts...
i gotta get to bed...gonna be up awhile chuckling over this one tho.
Edited by lambeau 8/19/2010 9:25 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I know what a waypoint is or represents. All I'm saying is, you can save 100's of icons/waypoints doing some things differently. I like using the tracks, then you can actually see the piece of structure and how you ran it much more defined.
If the structure has some secret-squirrel info Lambeau, then mark it a waypoint for that inside turn or rock pile or whatever it is that makes that spot special. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | good enough to stay on a track? are the fish in your world TJ always located the same place on the weedline..they would never be 2 casts lengths in ..or maybe 1 cast length off the weedline?
how your boat ran a the structure imo does not tell you how the structure lays out ...not at all..icons draw out the structure so you can see it, visualize it, and then fish it correctly....
I guess in my world my boat doesn't always follow the same track..
maybe you catch more bass than me.
Edited by BNelson 8/19/2010 9:30 PM
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Location: Racine, Wi | Sorry TJ, I'm not good enough to stay on the track. I only run a Crestliner with a set of 14' oars off of each side (yeah, their long, but I'm pretty long too, so it helps leverage everything out) so it gets tough following the same track every time.
On a more serious note, do you always fish a spot the same way? Jump on a trail and giddy up. Like Mike said, there could be a big pile of boulders on a rock bar that has smaller rocks on the rest of it, a patch of weeds on a sand flat, a rockpile within a weed flat, a sunken boat suspended 16' down over 30' of water (don't ask, but the spot puts out fish and my icon lets me know where it is on that flat)..... You get the point.
I'm sure the pros who are fishing for fish that have a much higher density in the waters can lay a waypoint on a spot as there are fish all over the place so they don't necessarily have to pay attention to every last detail in a weedline, however in musky fishing, those little details pay off in consistent fishing. Hopefully one day, I'll be able to create a trail on my GPS and follow it well enough to catch one or two more though.
Edited by tuffy1 8/19/2010 9:29 PM
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| If the structure has some secret-squirrel info Lambeau, then mark it a waypoint for that inside turn or rock pile or whatever it is that makes that spot special.
hay de mi.
more info is ALWAYS better, TJ. why would you argue for LESS info???
a single waypoint can't speak to cast angles, depth relationships, bottom transition points, subtle changes, etc., that contextual icons give you.
sometimes the water is dark and you can't see those things with your eyes.
sometimes it's night and you can't see anything with your eyes.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad, the track is a reference man, that's all. If I want to back off the track and and be out deeper then I simply go around the track, not being right on the line, or if I want to be up shallower, I use the track as reference and the arrow will be inside of the track. I'm using the track the same way your using the icons, but with much less clutter on my screen. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I guess I'm no tthe only one who didn't pick up on your track thingy...
exactly Joel...it's all the little details that give the guys who boat the most fish the edge....very true, Lambeau..more info the better..to say that using 1000 icons on one 5000 acre lake is somehow wrong just simply crax me up....
Edited by BNelson 8/19/2010 9:33 PM
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Location: Racine, Wi | But if you only fish 300 acre lakes Brad, Those icons clutter things up much more.  |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I put an icon down every 3 feet on those lakes Joel... I like bass |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I lay a track down the same way you do with icons. If something of importance, ie a rock pile, or that patch of weeds on a sand flat, or a rock pile within a rock pile or that sunken boat that's suspended 16 feet down over 30 feet, Joel, then mark a waypoint or icon. The track is used the same way, but with 100's of less icons and way points. Not only do I have the track, but I also have the sweet spot marked.
I've sat in the boat with Doc Samson, probably the single best electronics user on the planet and he doesn't lay down icons for a weed line or a rock bar. He maps with tracks.
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Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin | Lambeau, where did you find the "declutter icons" option? I could not find it on my 797si. |
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Location: Racine, Wi | TJ, one of these days I'll learn the water I'm fishing, then I'll take up golf because I'm going to need something to keep me even more bored than I'll be from knowing soo much about a lake that I can catch fish at will.
I don't use my GPS all that much to tell you the truth, but when fishing at night, learning a new lake quickly, or when I find something new in a lake I've been fishing for a while, I lay some icons down to get a good image of it.
All the guys above are accomplished musky dudes, so apparently using icons isn't all that bad as they all put nice fish in the net year after year. Hopefully we can all learn to use tracks so we can be as accomplished as yourself with our boat control one of these days. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Joel, I'm not saying what your doing and how your doing it doesn't work. Going back to the original post by Cory, he's having issues with all his icons from his LCX unit transferring over to way points that read ICON 1, ICON 2 etc.
I've been running two HDS-8's this year, I've had to adjust without the icon button myself. So, I have found by laying down a track, it's just as efficient and in my opinion better than using icons. Lay the track down, use the way point button to mark a sweet spot or fish or whatever it may be.
I use the track as a reference point, by no means is it the all knowing, have to be on that track follow that depth kinda deal, we all know fish can move and change locations within a piece of structure. I lay the track down, giving me a reference to how the structure lays. I then can move up shallower or go deeper by adjust my boat and using my arrow. I have an LGC-4000 gps puck for a reason, it updates 5 times per second, that's 4 times faster than the LGC-3000 the LCX/LMS units use.
Also, by using a track, your screen will be much less cluttered and won't take up those valuable waypoints/icons. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I fished with Doc Samson several times, and he literally maps structure using a Panasonic computer and special software hooked up to his Lowrance units. Tracks with waypoint marks for transitions (we were prefishing for a Walleye tournament, so waypoints for fish of consequence, too)were key to what I saw him doing, from my memory he was not laying out a trail of breadcrumbs using icons. The guy figured out, set the tracks, and mapped some very complex structure in 3 runs, and even mapped out small areas a few feet across where boulders were. lambeau, it was the entire run around Anderson Island on the Goon.
I looked over the tracks on the screens one Pro at Akaska used who is very well known for 'extreme contour trolling' and he was definitely using tracks marked with occasional waypoints where fish were contacted in practice and during the event. If one wishes to take the patch of submerged invisible willows 10' under the surface on the inside, that track and inside mark is where one goes, outside, then that one, over the top...you get the idea. The exact distance the board was held from the boat, and amount of line out for depth his presentation was holding as he ran the exact line he wanted to troll was really critical to keep from wasting time retrieving a board from a break-off caused by misjudging the track and position of varies structure along it. Every bit as sophisticated as what has been described here. He took second.
Just what I have seen recently in play with two of the top walleye guys out there. |
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Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin | When was the last time he cashed a check?? |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | TUFFY - 8/19/2010 10:10 PM
When was the last time he cashed a check??
Who? Doc? |
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Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin | Yep.... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | TJ wrote:
"I've been running two HDS-8's this year, I've had to adjust without the icon button myself. So, I have found by laying down a track, it's just as efficient and in my opinion better than using icons. Lay the track down, use the way point button to mark a sweet spot or fish or whatever it may be."
I will debate w/ you that a track is "better" than using icons til the cows come home...a track does not map out structure...it only maps out your track...which are you telling me that your track is 100% right on the money all the time? you must put down all your tracks when there isn't a puff of wind I take it???
Edited by BNelson 8/19/2010 10:18 PM
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Location: Madtown, WI | Ok this is almost a joke...but I have to comment since it is such blinded product support TJ. I am not into product bashing...but I am into addressing true FACTS that are issues with products. Everything me and others are experiencing are issues, and facts that the company best address or significantly loose customer base, plain and simple.
FIrst off, I am a consumer product developer for a living. If the product doesn't meet the customers needs, it is soon seen in our sales and customers walking away.
To blindly say that we need to adapt the way WE the consumer use the tools so they work, is a great way to run a business into the ground. We used the tools the way they were originally designed. The issue is then they changed the game and didn't make a interface that sucessfully communicates and transfers the data between the two generations. This is a HUGE issue period.
THe whole discussion around using trials etc, thats a joke. Seriously, if you ever fished a very complex piece of structure out in the middle of no where with one of us that uses icons/waypoints effectively, I bet you would have your eyes opened. If bass fisherman are NOT doing this, well I have a method that will definately help someone climb the leader board.
Ask them these questions:
1. Can they do a program update to incorporate an option to select "display waypoint names" and "Hide all waypoint names" This would be very helpful.
2. Can they reprogram an option to download different waypoint symbols. ie the ghost of an X they have now, over the Dark Fully colored X they USE to use, is just soooo much harder to see now when it is at your foot.
TJ, instead of blindly defending lowrance and suggesting we change how we fish AWAY from their older technology and adapt to THIER new technology....how about you work with us and lowrance to help us improve their product so it clearly meets the need of the consumers.
I am a lowrance fan, always have been. However, with the few of us complaining about legitimate issues, there are ARMIES behind us feeling the same way that will likely just walk away over to someone else versus trying to get the issues addressed.
THAT help would be much more helpful to lowrance, you and us.
Cory |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Doc? He's known as Doctor Sonar, and is a preeminent expert on Lowrance electronics plus is one of the all time leaders in total cash won, and he took fourth in the South Dakota Walleye Classic AIM last weekend. Chase? Last weekend, too. A big one. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad, I'm not saying the track is better, I'm saying it's a system, especially on the HDS units where you don't have an icon feature anymore.
I will personally invite you to come fish with me, I will show you that a track will be just as good, better in my opinion due to not having a crap ton of icons on my screen.
I will run a piece of structure, lay down a track, and if it's not good enough the first run, I'll run it again the next time I'm at that spot, using a different color for the track. Then, you can delete your old track or whatever. I've got my tracks pretty finely tuned after just a few times running any piece of structure, laying down the sweet spots as way points or anything of importance as a way point.
Why would you say my track isn't right 100% of the time? If I layed the track down, then it's right where I layed it. If I'm going along and I cut to far in or something, the track will show it, then the next time through, I can tell oh look, I had to adjust myself because the track got tracked over so that tells me, pay attention, I need watch my locator and not cut to far in this time.
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Location: Contrarian Island | um I think I'll pass on that......I know and understand how you use your tracks..and I still think the way I use my LCXs/ icons is better...I actually like looking at lots of icons.. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'maybe Doc or one of TJ buddy buddy Lowrance guys could actually go fish w/ a musky guy for a day and see how WE use the products...sounds like to me they only think bass and walleye jerkers use them'
Doc is an avid Muskie angler.
I believe this thread is about complaining because the software changed and several anglers would prefer it didn't. Cory's example of marking out a clump of weeds is EXACTLY what I saw the guys doing on the Missouri river using waypoints and tracks last weekend. Same function, different way of getting there. I don't know if one is better than the other, because I do neither.
If you want the icons back, then the best road is to try to impress upon Lowrance why they are valuable to you without all the rhetoric sure to alienate, and try to get a software package built to meet your purposes. Behaving obnoxiously won't solve the issue either way...and that goes for everyone here. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | One question, how can you lay an exact track if you first don't know every little in and out of a weedline. TYpically you run into the weedline, then have to weave back out to stay outside it...then you run into a point so now have to adjust back out again, then keep going straight thinking you are setting a trail down right off the edge and completely miss a nice inside pocket etc.
Unless you can VISUALLY see the entire bottom, then laying a trail is not in my mind as effective for a caster (troller is very different in my mind).
Brad and I few years ago got into some fish on a HUGE flat...WAY OFF the shore. On this flat were clumps of cabbage of different size. We literially drove around them and marked up the outline of these clumps with green x's. Instead of aimlessly doing drifts over this flat hoping to contact fish that were holding on these clumps....we pinpointed every cast as we knew where the edges of the clumps were....we knew where the HEART of the clumps were.... We started putting fish icons on the locations of clumps....talk about starting to put a pattern together....certain clumps started showing more fish.
We were able to put the cast ON THE MONEY all the time. A trail would never let us do that. We could almost call where fish would be at on this HUGE sparcely weeded flat.
Can't remember how many fish that trip alone we put in the boat, I know I got a 4 footer off of a clump that had several fish icons on it at that point...
Results speak for the tools and the way they are used.
Edited by C.Painter 8/19/2010 10:30 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Actually gentlemen, first off, as we all know, I am a hardcore Lowrance fan. Nothing wrong with Hummingbird, but I personally think Lowrance holds the edge and I like their product.
As for losing customers Cory, Lowrance had record breaking sales since the release of the HDS units. Not only did they win New Product Showcase in 2009 at ICAST but also Best of Show in 2010 ICAST.
My StructureScan was back ordered for over six weeks. This is fact, right from the factory themselves. So to tell me they are not meeting customer needs, well I beg to differ.
Musky fishermen are for sure less than 10%, maybe even 5% of Lowrance sales. Adjusting to musky fishermen alone, good luck with that one, honestly. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Selling product out of the gate...then having folks like me learn the issues with one of the "OTHER" units I have....I am telling you sales out of the gate do NOT dictate Repeat purchase...I know this from experience.
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Location: Madtown, WI | I would like to make a bet....we fish a lake niether has fished before...we pick one big complex structure...you do your track, I will do my method...in the end we will see who can best tell someone else all the details of that spot...AND be able to put a cast on all these little "details". In the end, the one that knows the most about a given structure, will put more fish in the boat period.
Oh, and I am not talking about using side scan etc etc...because the average fisherman is NOT dropping that kind of dough. They are getting the GPS/Depthfinder units period....
THAT will be apples to apples.
Edited by C.Painter 8/19/2010 10:37 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad, not necessary man. I have not once said what your doing is wrong, it works, you have the proof to show it.
Cory, in that instance of the clumps of cabbage, then waypoint those. I would have in that instance. But if your running a weedline, most of the time a consistent depth can be followed. If your going along, all of sudden the boat goes from the 14 feet of water you were holding in to 10 feet, guess what, I'd be pushing my boat left or right towards deeper water. Why? More than likely you are coming up on an inside turn or something has changed along that weedline.
Yes, you may run into the weedline or spot once in awhile, but that's learning, that's part of finding out what's there. By doing that, you have learned ok well I need to adjust for this next time. I guess personally trial and error once in awhile isn't always bad in my opinion. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | TJ you say to waypoint the clumps...and I do....on my NEW LAKES.....but on this lake for example...I have all that data already....but now I can't effectively use it because lowarance didn't create the tool so I can use THEIR data now easily. You see my issue here? We have PILES of data, that literally took DAYS to get...that can't effectively be used. THat is an issue...to put your head in the sand and say its not....is nuts.
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Location: Madtown, WI | TJ DeVoe - 8/19/2010 10:35 PM
Cory, in that instance of the clumps of cabbage, then waypoint those. I would have in that instance. But if your running a weedline, most of the time a consistent depth can be followed. If your going along, all of sudden the boat goes from the 14 feet of water you were holding in to 10 feet, guess what, I'd be pushing my boat left or right towards deeper water. Why? More than likely you are coming up on an inside turn or something has changed along that weedline.
Yes, you may run into the weedline or spot once in awhile, but that's learning, that's part of finding out what's there. By doing that, you have learned ok well I need to adjust for this next time. I guess personally trial and error once in awhile isn't always bad in my opinion.
Reading this TJ CLEARLY tells me you are missing a lot of key information when you are doing it this way. I fish ton of spots where the depth never changes and the weed edge is all over the place....if you adjust the way you do...you run up onto spots etc.
Like Brad said, (actually, I think we said it in the article too) Why crash and burn a spot 3-4 times to learn the spot when you can mark it once, and fish it like you have fished it for years...and CATCH the fish instead of burning the spot
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Cory, can't be done from what I've been told. Trust me, Lowrance has heard the 'icon gone' comments, no need for me to tell them again. I can tell you the reason why, but everyone of you guys haven't listened from the get go so no reason to rehash it. Your situation sucks, only thing I can tell you to do is find another LCX unit on ebay and go with it. The HDS units are so much better and with the StructureScan and DownScan features, that's a no brainer.
Brad, if I screw up 1 out of 10 times, I'm cool with that. I've found some very cool and intriguing spots, spots where I've come back to and caught fish from that 1 screw up because I found something I wouldn't necessarily would have found had I not.
I'm actually finding, with the StructureScan feature, my chances of screwing something up along a weedline or on a spot is far less now. The StructureScan is in my opinion priceless. Networking both units together so I can get the StructureScan and DownScan on both units is amazing!
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Gentlemen, behave and debate the issues with out the bad interpersonal behavior. Last request. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Ask Josh Lenda how effective this is. He fished with me one day this year. We fished a lake he knows pretty well but I had only fished it one time prior to me spending the day on the 800 or so acre lake marking it and fishing it.
The day I marked it I spent 4 hours marking it up....I then fished it for a couple hours and caught two.
Then I fished it a second time with Josh. Ask him how effective the method was for us. How well could I tell him about exact detail about spots and spot on the spot, and more importantly, fish it with percision. I think we boat 1 and had two or three more hit and not hit the net.
Not sure how laying a trail could of given you that kind of detail.
If I am wrong, someone please show me. I would like to see what doc does, I bet it does have its advantage in cetain situations.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Cory, again, what your doing isn't wrong, I'm not claiming it to be wrong. All I'm saying is, there are other ways in some instances that can be just as effective if not better. Since the HDS doesn't have icons, I've had to adjust and change some, just no other way around it. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | or buy a Hummingbird....
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | I still do what I did with waypoints. That lake Josh and I fished, I just had my HD unit with me. Even though the waypoint system they have on the new units is NOT as user friendly as the icons were...I have adjusted (like you said we need to do as consumers). However, I still have a pile of data I want to use....hello is this thing on? |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Cory, as I told you, the only way you can do what your wanting to do is manually change the ICON name and make them way points. This has been an issue for some since day 1, and we've talked about it before on this site.
I will make a call tomorrow and double check to make sure there is nothing else you can do. I asked your question to him in two different ways, trying to be clear so he knew exactly what you meant and both times I got the same answer.
So, what that tells me is, if they got rid of the icon feature, and didn't provide a way for you to transfer icons to the HDS units without making a waypoint, it clearly wasn't a big issue or not enough people complained to get them to change it on the second generations units. Like I said, the way you, I Brad, Reef and others have used the icons in the past, that's apparent that's not what they, meaning Lowrance thought users would use the icon feature for. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Can you transfer the icons and rename them; build a databse and store it on removable media for select systems? I remember hearing something about this at an FLW or an AIM...storing the tracks and waypoints for several systems so the issue of limited waypoints is addressed. It's 1000, right? Did I hear this correctly? |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad, your taking what I said wrong man. Yes, they created them to use, just not the way you use them. Offering only 1,000 icons and waypoints each on the LCX units would get used up awfully quickly the way you, Cory and Reef use them from the sounds of it. They clearly didn't make the feature to be used in the way you are using it.
The new HDS's hold 5,000 waypoints! |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | TJ DeVoe - 8/19/2010 11:00 PM
Cory, as I told you, the only way you can do what your wanting to do is manually change the ICON name and make them way points. This has been an issue for some since day 1, and we've talked about it before on this site.
I will make a call tomorrow and double check to make sure there is nothing else you can do. I asked your question to him in two different ways, trying to be clear so he knew exactly what you meant and both times I got the same answer.
So, what that tells me is, if they got rid of the icon feature, and didn't provide a way for you to transfer icons to the HDS units without making a waypoint, it clearly wasn't a big issue or not enough people complained to get them to change it on the second generations units. Like I said, the way you, I Brad, Reef and others have used the icons in the past, that's apparent that's not what they, meaning Lowrance thought users would use the icon feature for.
let me get this clear, I have only a small issue with not having icons, and thats becuase now when I put my data from my HD unit back on my lcx, I can't since its over the 1000 point mark...I understand that is the limitation do to advancement.
I am ALSO ok with just having waypoints. I think it could be done a little differently but we are not talking about that right now.
I am not asking to have icons back. If they could add a programing feature to allow waypoint names to be all shown, or "all hide" or do a select option to highlight the ones you want names to show...or SOMETHING so we can turn off the names from showing from a programing standpoint. I think this can be done...
Thanks...let us know what he says...
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Cory, I was told you have to manually change each name and that's it. They are way points now and will be on the screen. I will double check again tomorrow, not a problem. |
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Posts: 376
Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin | Cory is totally right. I used to do what TJ does and it works but its nowhere near as accurate as using the icons. From july of this year to recent I've laid down 800 icons. It works, periiod. Cory, thanks for opening my eyes to this back in July. |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | TJ, something to ponder would be to maybe have your Lowrance techs look at this (and the other threads you're referring to) to see if maybe they can implement some sort of improvement out for their software to where the users of their products don't have to go through all of the manual manipulation of the data gathered on prior units. Technology is changing daily, and I doubt if it would be difficult to create code that provides an upgrade that allows for easier data transfer from older units.
Most of my posts last night were in jest if you weren't able to tell, however what Cory, Brad, and I are refering to by being able to map out structure using icons (or waypoints as it may be) is to PREVENT us from sliding in too close to the area we are casting to, and to be able to hit those spots with the cast that is needed prior to getting to the area. The tracks aren't going to highlight that sort of detail when the spot is mapped out as you mention. I'm sure there is a time and place for how you work (I do use trails for some of my trolling runs), however when trying to focus on specific areas of larger structures, mapping as Cory and Brad have outlined is very productive.
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Location: Racine, Wi | Oh yeah, and to the Structure Scan. Like Cory also mentioned, yes it is awesome technology, however many of the fisherman are not going to be able to afford to purchase this as it is pretty expensive at this point when you get into the units that really help that feature work (from what I've seen, the larger screen units help this functionality much better, at least for my aging eyes, and my binoculars are only used for looking at the "scenery" on sunny summer days lol).
I haven't seen the Lowrance structure scan in action, but have seen the 'Bird side imaging, and the capabilities of these units are amazing to say the least. Being able to see how far off of a weedline, or a rockpile in the middle of some weeds, etc is fantastic and I can see how that could help me direct my casts and my client's casts towards the sweet spots even better, and without the use of GPS. However, my wife tells me it's apparently more important to feed my family and put a house over their head so I haven't been able to pull the trigger on any of those units up to this point.
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| TJ, i wasn't a big believer either until Cory and Brad published the article about it in Musky Hunter. one day when the fishing was slow on Waubesa i started playing around marking lots of points along a weedline just for the heck of it...when i came back through fishing the area, i realized just how right they were and what i'd been missing before. it makes you more efficient, and that makes you better.
for example, there's a couple of sandbar/sunken islands that i like to fish. i know Brad and Cory have visited them before too. on the top of these large shallow humps there are there areas of rock that poke up through the sand, and in among those rocks in a couple places where there are specific larger boulders. there's also some chara and other bottom-clinging junk weeds scattered around.
on my screen are some widely spaced icons indicating "sand" (i used a yellow diamond), clusters of icons for "weeds" (i use a weed image), with other clusters of icons indicating "rock" (i use a gray rockpile picture), and specific icons inside those clusters indicating "boulder" (i use a brown double-circle). and then of course there are the "fish" icons indicating where they've been contacted.
i can run these spots fan-casting the sand, particularly hitting the fish icons. then i can work around the weed or rock areas more slowly, specifically casting to the transitions. lastly i can work up on top of the rocks, hitting the boulders from various angles at a distance without burning the spot by driving over it.
that's kind of casting precision is just not possible if all i had was some tracks and generic waypoints - it doesn't distinguish enough.
i've got the Side Imaging, and i STILL put a ton of points down all over important pieces of structure. i do use it to "shoulder" certain weedlines or other structure in the way that TJ suggests and it's a great tool for that. but if anything, i put even more icons down as i'm now able to pick out some things from a distance (esp. a single element on a larger piece of structure) that i might have missed in the past. with the SI i can put the icon on the image off to the side of the boat and it shows up on the map at the proper location, ie., 75 feet off the to starboard or whatnot.
now, all of that being said, i run a Humminbird which means i have to enter points as a generic waypoint and then manually change the picture to what i want. i'm pretty practiced at it so it only takes about 10 seconds to do - no big deal when doing them one at a time. i would definitely not want to have to go back and re-enter/change the image from all of my old saved points when i transfre them and it's unfortunate that Lowrance didn't anticipate this issue and/or correct it in an update. maybe they will do so, maybe they won't. customer loyalty makes for a lot of sales when something new is released, but it only lasts until that new thing isn't quite as good as hoped and next time...
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Check this out:
http://www.hightechfishing.com/drdepth-1.html
Custom data can be added to the mapping, and the map Doc made on the Goon is so accurate I can tell if my cast will land on a small pile of rocks from my position. As I see it, it's not that waypoints won't do what this group wants to accomplish, it's that they used icons in the past and want to seamlessly transfer the data over in the exact same format from old to new, and it doesn't work that way. We tried to find a resolution earlier this year, and will try again.
Special request:
Someone, either Brad or Cory, please send me a file from the old unit, and the same file transferred to the new. Send it to me asap at [email protected].
We are going to look into this and see what we can do. Send me the files!
Attachments
----------------
 dd_5-4-10_2.jpg (214KB - 212 downloads)
hybrid_1.jpg (108KB - 229 downloads)
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| that's great stuff...software that gives you the ability to do what the mapping companies do when they're out surveying a lake. there are some unsurveyed lakes where that'd be really really helpful.
but in this instance we're not talking about contour trolling or jigging at a certain depth range. when you zoom those maps into a single cast length they're less helpful; they can't tell you the same subtleties in a weedline or a rockpile that your own icons will give you.
it's not one or the other.
Edited by lambeau 8/20/2010 8:45 AM
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Posts: 501
Location: Norway | I also use Dr. Depth, but thats because no lakes here in Norway is mapped, so I make my own. If I remember correct you can also convert/rename icons/waypoints. (I only use the make map function) Pr is also constantly making new features/updating the software. He has also made an 'ipilot' function (prototype only). the program lisence cost around 2 musky lures, so its a well worth investment (at least for me :))
It actually mapped a rockpile on an edge, I knew the rockpile was somewhere in the area, but when I mapped it, I know exactly where it is.
Michael |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Just in case Cory, Brad, or someone else with both files missed the post above, send me those files! |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | Guys there is several ways to use todays electronics. Different doesn't make it wrong. I was on Lowrance factory team when the first GPS's hit the "inland" market. I have always said the use of the machines is too time restricting. Once again the "machine programming" is dictating use vrs needs of use dictating how the program works. I am at a crossroads now with my GPS & even the sonar. The only units I haven't complained about in a year or so is the flashers and my handheld GPS!!
I sure would like to know how I can stand on my bow with a handheld working that I can put in my pocket, and have this giant screen unit with a seperate antenna not working a few feet away. I have also wondered wgy when we want all the information we can capture when we catch a fish why we can't capture that when we push the marking button. Personally I believe it's time for a company to come out with some "input from the on the water guys " not the "droned out software" fellows. It's not they give these units away, and it's not like they don't go out of date every 3-4 years! The whole industry needs to relook at their product vs.application/use in my humble opinon. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Thats a great offer. I don't foresee going away from my LCX/HDS combo any time soon, and will take any advice/software tips I can get in managing the systems' data to their fullest(just filled my capacity of icons and waypoints last week after 15 years of saving). EDIT: My LCX saved data to my HDS just fine. However, if I want to resave from the HDS to a card then to itself or the LCX, I get the cluttered 'ICON' issue. I don't beleive Brad has an HDS, so Cory will have to be the lab rat here. Hope it works, and please keep us updated.
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Location: Madtown, WI | I will try and get the data....stupid job is in the way right now... might be able to get it tonight. |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | data sent....let me know if you get it and if it works for you...
Cory
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Got it and forwarded it off to our architects. |
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| The loss of icons would be a huge disadvantage to the way that I mark spots. I do use trails when marking rockbar spines and straight weedbeds. Two weeks ago my LCX110 went out. I sent it to Lowrance and paid them $650 for a new HDS10. I dont have the unit yet but when I do I dont see myself using it. I use my gps much like Brad and Cory do. Brad was the one that really opened my eyes to the advantages of extensively marking spots.
That being said anyone want to trade a LCX112 plus some cash for a HDS10? |
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Posts: 233
Location: Iowa | I got an hds 10 and 7 this year, I could swear there is already an option in there that allows you to hide waypoint names.
Jeremy |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Any word back Steve on this one???
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | OFM can do the programming needed to make this work, but it will be a 'when we can' issue, very busy right now... |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | "....especially on the HDS units where you don't have an icon feature anymore. "
This may be why the used LCX units are going for more now used than they did new on closeout when the HDS units were announced. Once people realized what they were giving up to get an HDS, suddenly the LCX looks better. I know that is true for me. Anyone have a 112 pr 113" LCX they want to sell?
By the way, you can't buy a PC with less than 1GB of memory for $599. Why can't Lowrance put a bit more memory in these things at $2200+ so this is a non-issue for all anglers? I hope someday a company forms that can offer a diskless PC that stores and processes everything and then just wire it to waterproof dumb terminals with a standard network ethernet cable. This would get us off the new hardware treadmill the other two have us chasing. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | If you would use an HDS unit and used it to it's fullest potential, meaning with the LGC-4000, the StructureScan with the Downview feature, and add on the Sirius Satellite Weather and radio services, you might never own an LCX unit again.
If your seeing LCX units going for more than what they were when they were closed out, then I wouldn't touch that unit with a 10 foot pole. If you look hard, good used deals are endless, you just have to be patient. The LCX units are worth what they are worth, and that's by no means more than what they were when they were being closed out. Plus, there will be a point in time when Lowrance will no longer service an LCX unit at all.
As for memory, this isn't a Labtop computer, it's a fish locator. Look at the waterproof laptops in the same dimensions, those won't give you a depth, structure, bottom density, downscan or side scan reading ...and the Yuma and Toughbook are way more expensive. The Trimble Yuma is a nice unit, but wouldn't work for me to give me what I want even for just a GPS, and runs $3300.00 to $4300.00.
These units aren't built the way some used to use the LCX models. Can they be used that way, absolutely, but you have to adjust to the limitations of the unit.
What I've done so I don't fill up a unit with umpteen waypoints or icons when I had LCX units is for each big lake, I have a separate SD card with all my waypoints just from that lake, then I put a new card in the unit for another large lake. I only do this for large bodies of waters, that way any data I collect from that lake is on that SD card. Or, you can get a Navionics Navplanner that stores your waypoints, tracks, routes etc.
So, there are options out there that can be utilized, but to boycott the HDS units.... I'll enjoy my HDS units to the fullest.
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Location: Contrarian Island | TJ, couple things....for me personally the ease of use in mapping and icons is so much easier and smarter on the LCX units I will keep mine and buy backups when I see them at good prices...the HDS units to me went a step backwards...shouldn't the new "updated" unit be simpler to use than the units they are discontinuing? well, they aren't...
also, why in the world would you have a seperate SD card for each lake...do you realize that the files even if you put 1000 icons and 1000 waypoints are about 40kb??? one 2 mb SD card could hold 50 files (lakes) that size....
I'd be curious to find out why the Lowrance engineers would put a 30 gigabyte hard drive on a unit like my 38c HD then cap the icons at 1000? ah well...we can all have a wish list I guess.
Edited by BNelson 9/19/2010 9:32 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I'm not saying that they did a good thing by getting rid of the icon button, but there is absolutely nothing I can do to magically make it reappear, nor can you or the next guy. So, instead, I'm all about figuring out a way to do the same thing on the HDS units, yes, it's a different procedure now in how you go about doing what we use to do on the LCX units, but so far I LOVE the HDS units.
If you use the HDS units to their fullest potential, the advantages greatly outweigh in my opinion the icon button on the LCX units. The sonar readout, the StructureScan, the option to have Sirius Radio and Weather, but what I've really enjoyed most this season is the Downview feature, that is flat cool!
As for the file size, yes, I know how big they are, but I have a crap ton of sd cards, why not give it a 2gig card? I then know I never fill it up. Typically though, I had been storing them on Navplanner and then empty the card afterward. I've only got a couple of cards, Vermilion, Wabigoon and Northern Wisconsin Lakes on one. But, as I do fish more lakes, keeping them separated means I don't have to wonder whats on what card or when it was from etc. All the data from that lake and only that lake is there, simple. I know Zach has a card of the Mississippi River that has years of knowledge just on that card and actually has filled up a smaller card, and now has another card that is 2 gig that he uses.
I've asked the question numerous times about the 1000 icon cap, and the same answer every time I've asked was who knows why only 1000 icons. But I do know this, what you, and anyone else using the icons the way you or I have, the icon was not made to be used that way, laying down 100's of icons marking structure out or weed lines dotted with icons is not the intent, that I know for certain. Just for reference, the HDS units now have a 5000 way point capacity. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i save all files with the lake name and date, the most recent date is then the newest file and the older dates can be deleted..no need to keep them....simply deleting the older files which you can do easily when the card is in the unit...back them up on the HD unit and the home computer just in case you lose the SD card or HD gets fried for some reason....one easy way not to wonder when they are from
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Yes, there are other ways, to each there own I guess. |
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| I certainly dont want to get into the middle of the debate about icons or waypoints because I am not the most knowledgeable about using my GPS.
Here is what I do when I try and mark key points of structure and from the sounds of the discussion here, it is a combination of both sides.
I do like the track feature, but like has been said, there is really no way you can accurately follow the piece of structure 100% of the time, the first time. So what I do is mark icons or waypoints, no rhyme or reason to which one, I just use them interchangeably. Then, once I have the key pieces marked, I will delete the track, IMO its pretty much useless in some cases because of the zigging and zagging I did to mark initially.
Then, I go through and connect the dots with a new track. This one is more accurate. I dont do it to necessarily use it as a guide to follow, just helps me picture the structure better.
What do lake maps do? There are lines that connect points of equal depth right? All of our map chips do this, this I think is how our minds work. Granted there is TONS of detail that doesnt exist there and that is where you folks with your keen waypointing or iconing come in.
This obviously does not solve the problem of all the data you guys could be losing, and that really sucks. Glad I only get a few hours on the water here and there then. LOL |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Hey STeve....Any luck on that Data I sent you?!?!!
This is STILL a big issue.
I talked to lowrance again and told them that a simple program change that would allow you to select if a waypoint's name was displayed on screen would completely rectify the problem with the data conversion that happens with Icon over to waypoints.
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| Any word back on the data Cory sent you? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | When we get the time we will look at designing the needed software in house. That is, of course, if the a couple of the players here don't drive us off the project. |
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| i am looking at a hds10. that is now on hold due to this BIG problem of not having icons, and how they are turned into waypoints when you transfer from a lcx to a hds unit. it is a deal breaker for me. i will be watching to see if there is a fix in the near future. if not i will be looking at a used lcx unit or go with a different company all together. it is that big of a problem for me and it souns like i am not alone. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Tom to clarify, the fact that the icons are turned into waypoints actually isn't a big deal. The big deal is the fact that once icons, once transferred and saved, then deleted, then reloaded will show up with the name of every icon on the screen basically cluttering the screen. A programing change could easily fix this problem. Now what goes into the programing may take some time, this is not my area. But on the surface it seems like a pretty easy thing to do.
Edited by C.Painter 2/24/2011 12:30 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's not. |
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| i understand the clutter thing. that is what makes it a big deal to me. the way i understand it, you have to go back after the transfer of waypoints and remove all the "clutter" so the waypoints look like icons again. and then change the symbol back to the one that idenifies the spot, structure or areas that fish were caught. you can say, i navigate to waypoints and fish around icons. i am waiting to hear the price on a x104 that a local has for sale. he wants to try a hds unit. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Close Tom... The icon itself does transfer...I mean the image. So if you have a green X it transfers over as a green X. I don't recall having to go back and change any symbols. |
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Location: Racine, Wi | Hey Steve,
Thanks for sending me all of Cory's waypoints and Icons. I'll use them well this year. I won't tell Cory that's what you were doing though, I'll make sure he thinks you're still working on the transfers. |
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Location: 31 | I know this is an old thread but I was doing a search on what happened to the icons with HDs and ended up back here (first time HD user this year). I can understand how Doc wouldn't have a problem with the HD units not having icons, transferring data, or anything with Lowrance for that matter considering he's probably the number one expert. I’m not him…
However, I'm with these other guys being extremely disappointed to not only find the icons do not transfer intact, but also that they don’t even have icons. I'll be able to work around it, but I have a TON of lakes with my targeted trolling break line outlined saved on cards that's a little up in the air now.
My routine was to simply blank my old 113 (all icons trails and waypoints) before launching and install the lake/area icons before fishing, when I finished fishing just save the updated version. I'll be the first to admit that I over used icons… I’ve even had several people in my boat that could hardly believe I went to that kind of extreme, but it works for me… so yeah I'm hugely disappointed too. Literally thousands of hours of carefully stored information dating back to the X-15 days, I'll be able to work around it like reef hog says, and StructureScan will probably more than make up for it… but it's still quite a shocker.
My question is to you guys to have been using these HD units… how much of a problem has this been for you, and have you learned any tricks.
I'll tell you something that would be really trick TJ, Lowrance could have a “depth icon” on their upcoming gen 3s. Hit a button, the depth is recorded from your sonar for those times when the map is off.
Edited by Jerry Newman 5/6/2012 11:51 AM
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Posts: 32919
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Adapt, Jerry, adapt. Watch the videos we have onsite, there's some pretty good advice offered. |
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| With the new HDS units I use symbols with the numbers turned off.....this is ends up being essentially the same as the old icon system.
In terms of transfering from old units to the new HDS units, on one of my boats I kept an original 332 that I use along with the HDS 7.
I think the HDS unit symbol system makes a lot more sense than the old lcx version of either icon or waypoint. The new system combines both into one and works great.
For an individual that uses a lot of icons/waypoints in my opinion it makes for sense to have two smaller HDS units ethernet linked compared to one big unit. I can rapidly run structure up with waypoint symbol allocations.
I realize this isn't a fix all for those who have iconed up their LCXs and wanted to transfer them intact to the HDS units.
There are a ton of used LCX units out there at low prices that one may not have to address the issue of icons for many years. The other option for one that wants the benefit of the new HDS technology is to buy a smaller unit and run it side by side with the LCX.
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Location: 31 | Thanks Guest, that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for! Now I just have to figure out how to turn off those waypoint numbers?
I'm sooo glad I decided to run the old LCX-113 alongside of the HD-10 at the helm now… (I almost sold my 113 to a friend). I went back and forth with it but in the end I decided on the 2 units mainly for the big look, also redundancy, and familiarity with the 113 came into play. If I'd known about this issue with the icons, it would have been a no-brainer!!!
My only reservation with running two big units at the helm was thinking it was going to be tight, but to my surprise there's actually plenty of room for both, it's even nice to rest my wrist/hand on the top of the lower unit while playing around with the other. Best of both worlds until I get things squared away with Icon situation on the HD… It's awesome that there's 5000 available!
Adaptability is my middle name Steve… LOL!
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| Jerry,
On the HDS unit hit Waypoint. That will get you to the waypoint screen. From there you can select the symbol, color, symbol with number or without. etc... etc.. Remember to hit save when done. From that point on until you change it your selection will enter the same everytime. ("ie" rock symbol without a number for marking up a reef quickly.)
On my HDS units I run a fish symbol and number associated with to indicate it is a fish. For weeds I use the weed symbol and turn the number off. Same for rocks etc... Once you get comfortable with it you will like it. |
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Location: 31 | guest - 5/6/2012 5:18 PM
Jerry,
Once you get comfortable with it you will like it.
After playing around with these units, I have no doubt I’ll be 100 percent thrilled with them, they are indeed technological marvels. I can see that the StructureScan is going to be able to save mind-boggling amounts of time while learning new areas and finding bait fish in more open water situations.
As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the icon edge deal is not “Lowrance textbook”, but obviously competent guys are using it in that capacity so there must be something to it. Either way, I certainly have no plans to change and will just adapt the same strategy to the HD as with the LCX, with the added hassle of un-numbering waypoints/icons.
Thanks again for helping me guest, much appreciated!
Edited by Jerry Newman 5/8/2012 10:37 PM
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