|
|
Posts: 366
| On the subject of the moon, do you think it really makes a difference in muskie fishing? I'm talking about the perceived notions of things like moon rise, moon set, full moon, new moon, ect. | |
| | |
Posts: 285
Location: Price County WI | Nothing is a Guarantee to put more fish in you boat, I do know one thing the 6 biggest fish in my boat last year came within an hour of moon set or moon rise. | |
| | |
Posts: 238
| Nothing about catching fish is guaranteed,to many uncontrollable variables.
But i have seen signifigant increases in fish activity during key moon times,to many times to dissmiss as a fluke.
I do think it increases your chances at a better day on the water but dosent guarantee it.
Its deffinetly worth fishing the better times if you can,if you cant oh well any time on the water is good time.
Edited by kawartha kid 7/22/2010 1:10 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 392
Location: lake x...where the hell is it? | fishing the windows gives you the best chance to catch them, it helps put the odds in your favor and we all know we need every advantage we can get. if you only have a few hours to fish and you can choose to go during a window or during any other time, hit the window and hit it hard. when i was in minn last sept for the full moon at least 1 50" fish was caught on the major every night including my first 50". the numbers dont lie, only the anglers.lol. | |
| | |
Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I've seen where the fish were dead nuts on the moon times day after day . I've seen it where there was no correllation between moon times and fish activity for a two week stretch and we took several fish over 30#. That said, I make every effort to be in a good spot when the moon times approach because if all weather related conditions are right, the moon is probably the next most important factor from what I've seen. It sure doesn't hurt. But as it has been already stated, there are no garrantees! | |
| | |
Posts: 264
| Almost all of the muskies we caught in our boat last year were moon related. So yes, i think it helps. | |
| | |
| in 2006 on the north shore of mille lacs i was on the boat with bnelson and steve jonesi and at the moonphase i took a look down at the row of boats. it looked like the 4th of july with all the flashes going off on cameras.
that convinced me if you don't get to fish more than a couple hours a day ... choose those hours carefully, or at least make sure that if you are on the water during that time that you are in the place where big fish live. | |
| | |
| I'm fairly new to musky fishing yet so multi-fish days have not happened for me very often. However, last year, the night of the full moon in August (5th I believe) me and a friend boated 3 fish. That was the first time ever putting 3 in the boat in one day and has not happened since.
Then I got married 3 days later (8-8-09) and the luck has changed.... | |
| | |
Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | 619musky - 7/22/2010 3:27 PM
Almost all of the muskies we caught in our boat last year were moon related. So yes, i think it helps.
Every single muskie I have ever caught has been moon related. Wheter it was moon up or moon down, moon rise or moon set. Sometimes the moon was at about a 45 degree angle and I caught a fish. Other times, I couldn't even see the moon, and I caught a fish.  | |
| | |
Posts: 253
Location: On the water | Is any moon phase better than another? There are moon rise, set, up, down, full, new, major, minor. I've just started to try and follow the moon phases and I haven't been doing very good. The few Muskie that I catch don't seem related to anything. | |
| | |
Posts: 2089
| First, there are NO guarantees in muskie fishing. But, playing the moon can and will put the odds in your favor. Proven time and time again. | |
| | |
Posts: 323
Location: In the slop! | Snake-oil. | |
| | |
Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | Hey,
How would some of you guys like to buy some swampland down Florida way?
Fishing these moon times provides hope and anticipation. Guys fish harder, are more alert, and are really turning it on during these notated phases. I suggest that if they fished the same way, with all of those characteristics on a constant basis, I believe that they would catch as many Muskies. If the formula about moon times was that accurate and contributed to markedly more fish being caught, I believe Musky fisherman would focus on them as strongly as they do using a leader.
I have paid very close attention to these moon times. I'd be telling a tale if I said that I caught any more fish at these times than others. And the mythic discussions about full moons ... I have fished dozens of full moons and never found that the fishing was markedly better than any other moon phases. Yes, I could see what what going on in the boat when the moon was full, but that was the only other advantage that I could perceive.
Just my own observations and experience.
Edited by cjrich 7/22/2010 7:34 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 15 years of correlating Knights Solunar Tables and a barograph record from a local weather station to a carefully kept log during my guiding time convinced me there's definitely activity periods relating to sun/moon/earth relationships that are effected by weather and other factors.
As a hunter, I can definitely vouch for deer activity during many a solunar major. | |
| | |
Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | I believe in it 100% for fish..... for deer...... not so much.... sorry Steve 
I have documented deer movement for years based on moon phase and I can say the ONLY correlation I have been able to find is directly related to the photo period at night... meaning, full moon=increased movement only because they can see better.... not due to the moon's gravitational pull.
But thats just me and this is about muskies.... :D | |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This fall, watch the Knight Solunar tables. I use them, and can't tell you how many times I'm in the woods when everyone else left for lunch. I passed on lunch because of a Major or Minor...and the deer move in numbers. Even better, many times I predicted I'd kill my buck while everyone else was eating lunch. my best three bucks were harvested center of a major, late morning to mid afternoon.
This isn't moon phase, totally different deal.
My trail camera supports the majors and minors with daytime and nighttime videos corresponding with solunar periods. | |
| | |
Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | For sure. As has been said, there's never a guarantee. I'll fish a moon period and not get a follow. I believe weather and local conditions can and do trump moon. But I've seen the day made on a moon time more times than I can count. Not to mention just driving the truck and every so often seeing deer, coyotes, owls, etc out in the broad daylight and you check your watch and it's a moon time. | |
| | |
| There is a good chance the deer moved because the woods were empty and quiet with most other hunters off eating lunch. | |
| | |
Posts: 12
| Guest - 7/23/2010 7:30 AM
There is a good chance the deer moved because the woods were empty and quiet with most other hunters off eating lunch.
How many times have I seen deer at lunch time? Too many to count but I tend to believe that it has a lot more to do with the other hunters getting out of their stands and pushing them around than it does anything to do with moon phase etc...
Just my .02 | |
| | |
Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | I didn't believe for years... The results changed my mind. | |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Nope. The deer moved all across the are we hunted, which is private, and came from/headed to areas where no one was all day.
Funny, one guy says the deer were pushed, another says they were up and feeding and the bucks chasing does because they weren't.
I'll use the Knight tables. If you don't believe in them, that's OK with me, but I'll still use them. Tooooo many times success came within very limited time in the woods and on the water during a solunar period, and didn't out of a solunar period. if I only have a couple hours to hunt and fish, I'll try to match those hours with a Major or Minor....and if I can get either at sunset I'm all over it. | |
| | |
Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | I have followed all the indcators and the only conistent thing I have ever seen has been that one must be fishing to catch fish. Sometimes moon phases matter and sometimes make a big difference, but not always. Sometimes the Knight Solunar tables are very helpful and sometimes not. However, you always have a chance to catch a fish anytime you have a lure in the water.
My experience is that weather can play a much larger role. Post frontal is usually tough and storms can often shut everything down. Stable weather or pre-frontal most often seems to be the best.
All that said, I have caught some of my best fish when there was no lunar activity and no Solunar majors or minors and the sun was high in the sky. Yeah, those times when nothing should be going and yet the fish were very active. It seems the fish often just bite when they want to.
My experience is that the solar and lunar activity and the Knight Solunar tables can all help predict fish activity. Even so, fish activity can rarely be predicted more than 50% of the time. There are to many other variables like weather, water conditions, boat traffic, fishing pressure, and who knows what to be able to predict fish activity all the time.
Just my experience.
Edited by Herb_b 7/23/2010 12:45 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 366
| So what I'm hearing, and I'm sure I'm over simplifying things as I usually do, is that those of you who put stock in the moon relationship to fishing activity feel that all other conditions being equal the moon can and might help you catch fish. Also, if given the opportunity to fish when ever you want, yet for limited amounts of time, should pick the times associated with key moon activity.
Ok, so how many of you have ever seen situations where all other conditions in muskie fishing were identical with the moon location being the only outstanding factor? Also, how many of you can pick down to the hour of the day when you can be on the water, if you’re only allowed a limited amount of time to do so?
I guess I'm a little skeptical. No, that's not true, I think it is mostly just b.s. I've just seen way to many times when I've worked on a dock and greeted every fisherman to come in each night and hear pretty much what everyone does and occasionally have one guy say, "yep we caught that 50" twenty minutes before the moonset. It just goes to show you...” all the while not mentioning how the four other muskies they caught that day had nothing to do with the moon activity, or the 35 other muskies that were caught by the other guests that day.
Honestly, overall I see the moon thing as either random chance, and/or self-fulfilling prophecy. And, even if there is some small advantage that the moon might give you, the chance that something else in your life or the conditions won’t be the bigger factor, is more to the point, not worth worrying about. Some guys talk about it like it is all that matters in muskie fishing. Alright, so that may be an exaggeration, but for the odds of it being able to make a difference and it actually happening, are pretty slim in comparison to how often it comes up in conversations. But, I do enjoy the discussion otherwise I wouldn’t have asked.
Ryan | |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Herb_b,
Same here, some of my largest muskies were caught out of any solunar period. BUT...the barograph almost every time indicated a shift in pressure, and as a result, wind direction and approaching changing weather at the exact time the activity happened, especially mid day stuff. A flat barograph more often than not meant very little action until sunset. None of this is even close to absolute, which is why I still listen to SVL's 'When is the best time to go Muskie fishing?' belief...the answer is...when you can.
Even more interesting was the small 'spikes' up or down that were dead on with activity periods, where I was able to spank the walleyes in 3' of water on a calm day with not a cloud in the sky.
Sure, there's thousands of other variables. I try to pay attention to as many as I can to play my best hand for my time on the water. | |
| | |
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I see two factors here and they're not equal in my opinion.
Rise/Set: I'm not a believer in moonrise/set much at all, too often these correspond to low light factors and therefore the moon probably isn't the reason. I have seen more of an impact during middle of the day or middle of the night when the moon is directly overhead or underfoot. This actually makes some sense scientifically because it corresponds to tides.
Moonphase: This one is important and the days around the new and full can impact overall activity. Once again though this has some science behind it because the highest tides are around the new and full moon. | |
| | |
Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | For me, the more I fish, the less I seem to know. Seems most of the things I used to "know" were not so absolute - especially about fishing and women. I seem to know a little about fishing, but women - forget it! They are so confusing.
I think its best not to think to much and just fish when you can and have fun. That and have a good lunch packed. Fishing while being hungry is no fun.
Time to go home soon....
Edited by Herb_b 7/23/2010 4:21 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 580
| I'm in the "I don't know" camp. At times, I've seen what I've thought were correlations. I used to be a big "believer", until I started going back and tracking all of my catches and matching them up with what the old Farmers Almanac says the moonevent times were.
What I found was that, at least in my experience on LOTW, I'm agreeing with Will as to the Rise/Set stuff. In 10+ years of doing week-long trips to LOTW (where we typically fish hard, all day long, sunrise to sunset), 10% of our catches have come within 1 hour prior to or after a moonrise or moonset. 33% of our boated fish have been caught within 1-2 hours of moonrise or moonset, 33% within 3-5 hours, and 24% at more than 5 hours.
I could argue from my LOTW data/experiences that the best time to fish is almost anytime OTHER THAN within an hour of moonrise/moonset. (90% of our boated fish have been caught outside of that 2 hour window). Or, I could argue that the moon "triggered" those 10% of fish that we've caught. Or, I could argue that the key time is between 2 to 5 hours before or after a moonrise/set, since that "window" has accounted for 2/3rds of our boated fish. But what seems most logical to me is that, actually, the moon probably hasn't made much of a difference one way or another....in my experiences on LOTW, anyway.
| |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ever compare your success to Knight's tables? | |
| | |
Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Today was textbook. Boated a fish within 10 minutes of the major, and then boated another about 15 minutes before the massive storm hit. If all days could be this easy and predictable. My last two fish though came entirely out of any moon phase and without any descernable changes in weather or conditions. Goes to show it's good to fish when you can, but if you have a choice of a moon time or not, take the moon time. | |
| | |
Posts: 580
| sworrall - 7/23/2010 9:38 PM
Ever compare your success to Knight's tables?
Actually, no. But I'd like to. Is there any easy way that I could get Knight's data going back the past 10-12 years? | |
| | |
Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | At the risk of sounding naive... what exactly is "Knight's Table" and where can you obtain that kind of data...?
I've been keeping a journal of sorts and I make a note to log it after each outing. The website that gives fairly accurate data that I've been utilizing is: http://www.solunarforecast.com/solunarcalendar.aspx
If there's another one out there, please post it up!
That being said, I can't say that I've specifically targeted a fishing outing around a major lunar phase, but that's only because I've not had the ability to go out as often as I'd like. I don't own a boat, but I'm hoping the log that I'm keeping will offer some insight next season or the one after that or the one after that. I figure, if I can remain consistent enough with the upkeep of it when I do get out... it may offer some valuable information down the road. | |
| | |
Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | PSYS - 7/24/2010 6:17 PM
At the risk of sounding naive... what exactly is "Knight's Table" and where can you obtain that kind of data...?
John Alden Knight.
http://www.solunartables.com/
The solunar forecast website that you're using goes off of Knight's theories on the solunar tables.
Aaron | |
| | |
Posts: 12
| Here's an online version:
http://www.solunarforecast.com/solunarchart.aspx | |
| | |
Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Thanks, you guys! | |
| | |
Posts: 36
| All of the Muskies I ever caught were sometime before or after a moon set. 7 minutes, two hours, four hours, etc.... more important things to worry about like how the current weather will effect the lake you fish. | |
| | |
Posts: 767
Location: Ames, Iowa | I noticed a significant difference between Knight and Bucher on the best times to be on the water. Is one better than the other? | |
| | |
Posts: 767
Location: Ames, Iowa | I noticed a significant difference between Knight and Bucher on the best times to be on the water. Is one better than the other? | |
| | |
Posts: 317
| This is what hit it home for me: Lat year, on a family vacation, I had very limited time to fish. I hit lake Tomahawk at 1:30 on a bright, sunny 90 degree day. The lake was covered in pleasure boaters and waterfleas. Not optimal conditions for a clear, pressured lake. I raised a big fish right away, a lazy, deep follow. I knew that moonset was at 3:30, so I stayed on that little spot for 2 hours, casting the same bait. She never came back, and I never saw another fish. At 3:15, I bombed a cast and she ate it. My PB of 51.5" (my avatar photo). On conditions like I had, I'm convinced the moon change triggered that fish.
Edited by MuskyStalker 7/26/2010 2:08 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | I love the 90/10 rule, hee hee, or is it the 80/20?? 15 years and I've never paid any attention to it. Waist of time!
Even if it meant something the weather and or water conditions would over ride any effects. Go when you can go and learn to control the depth and speed of your baits and you'll do just fine.
Edited by jerryb 7/28/2010 10:43 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 619
Location: Seymour, WI | Tanner Wildes has a very good article in the current issue of MHM on this topic. In a nutshell he says that during stable weather the daily major and minor times are the best times of the day to be on the water. If the barometer is moving however, then weather is the dominant factor. | |
| | |
Location: Contrarian Island | What I always find strange on M1st and other boards is that some fisherman discount the thoughts/opinions/beliefs of guys who's sheer numbers of hours on the water and numbers of fish and big fish are 100 to 1 difference....imo take the top 15 anglers in the musky world, whoever those are..and ask them does the moon matter...I would bet, all would say it does..ask any guide who puts large numbers of fish and big ones in the boat and ask them...the ones I have asked this to, some guides and just some friends who put far more big fish in the boat than I do..all say it does matter...now take Joe Fisherman who puts in his 100 hrs a yr and catches a small number of fish and he says it doesn't...now who am I going to believe in this debate?
If the 15 best golfers in the world with 50 majors under their belt all believed a certain ball gave them an edge but the "pro" down at the local course says that's bs ...who are you going to believe?
Imo it does matter....for those that don't think so, great! Less of a chance you are on the big fish i want to catch at a moon event!
Edited by BNelson 7/30/2010 6:01 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 366
| Well actually, my reason for posting this poll and discussion was a result of the thoughts and ideas of one of the best muskie fishermen on the planet, who felt that the moon stuff was B.S. He’s caught more 50”+ muskies in the past month than the average 10 M1sters will do in a lifetime. Regardless, he didn’t start this public debate, I did.
My observation on this discussion is that the top anglers in the muskie world are more likely to say that there might be a connection, and far too often many novices will only hear the possibilities and then turn it into gospel. The guys who do the most ranting and raving about something like this typically have some of the least experience, but focus on the one or two most meaningful fish in their lives and draw far reaching conclusions about one or two factors in a situation containing hundreds of variables. They conclude that all that mattered in the particular situation was the x variable that resulted in the capture of a few fish among dozens of others.
Granted, there are plenty of big names in the muskie world who have loads of experience and believe in the moon relationships, and obviously 90% of M1sters feel there is either something to it, or might be and don’t want to swim against the current. Most guys aren’t meticulous enough in their record keeping quantifying and verifying certain relationships. I know I’m not. But, the thing I see is the guys who make the connection are also the ones who are looking the hardest for a connection.
I find it strange how easily so many guys take what they read on the internet as pure fact, when quite honestly no one knows for sure. I’ll be on the water, as much and whenever I can, regardless of moon phase. It is interesting how despite all the muskie fishermen out there trying to make sense of it all, that the prevailing opinion is, there are no guarantees. Even with a data base like Muskies Inc. Lunge Log generalities are all that can be derived. Well, there is one guarantee that I believe in, and that is time on the water is the best way to insure more muskies hit the net.
Ryan
| |
| | |
| I would mention on trophy waters with lower density I have seen this work unreal. We would still fish the other time periods, but you really only had action during the key moments. The larger fish would not move outside of these time periods. It was really like clock work. I think on your typical lake with more fish per acre and more of your 30 to low 50 inch fish it is not as important. On certain waters where you are targeting the largest fish, it is the real deal...BR | |
| | |
Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | We're down to 8.81%,,, there is so much room at the top
Last week I landed muskie #1600 over 30" with a very pretty 45"er from Madison but this would never qualify me as a "top angler", in some circles,,,, however I have seen a few things. Anyone see the 100's of gar purposing and chasing minnows on the surface off of governors island Saturday morning on Mendota, no muskies in that lake, we did catch 15 pike 11 between 36-39".
We fish for muskie about 1/2 of the season and have done so for the last 15 years and every single catch I attribute to: "Putting a bait at the right place, (depth), moving it at the right speed, and doing so at the right time". Nothing more.
Ryan, I agree with everything you said, well done! | |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | j,
You ignore the solunars, and I won't. That work for you?
'It is interesting how despite all the muskie fishermen out there trying to make sense of it all, that the prevailing opinion is, there are no guarantees.'
Some of us are actually very interested in trying to figure it all out and make sense of it all. Doesn't mean those who don't want to or don't care are somehow sharper or better anglers, to the contrary. Of course there are no guarantees, but there are averages, correlations, and tendencies, and I'll continue studying them.
'But, the thing I see is the guys who make the connection are also the ones who are looking the hardest for a connection. '
Have you ever considered some of us looked for the connection and then found one? You have it backwards, there, slick.
Ryan, you need to slide your chair back a little. Actually, allot.
| |
| | |
Posts: 366
| sworrall - 8/3/2010 3:40 PM
Ryan, you need to slide your chair back a little. Actually, allot.
Steve, I’m not sure what you mean by that, but I take it as though I’m focusing on the details and not looking at the big picture. Probably way off base with what you meant, but I would like to understand you and this topic more clearly.
From my view point I feel that the opposite is true here, and that I am looking at the big picture where many others are not. I didn’t post this to try and prove to the world that the moon is irrelevant. Quite the contrary, I’d hope to see that someone could prove to me how the does make a difference. I have still yet to see that happen. I don’t mean when someone says, “well my experience is this…” because there are always plenty of other guys who can say just the opposite on any given day. This is one of the problems that I have with the moon relationship. Too often I’ve seen one boat raving about clockwork like moon timing, when the rest of camp had completely sporadic timing results by comparison. Even the guys who do “see the connection” only have it happen once or twice in almost 100 hours of fishing for the week.
Some of us are actually very interested in trying to figure it all out and make sense of it all. Doesn't mean those who don't want to or don't care are somehow sharper or better anglers, to the contrary. Of course there are no guarantees, but there are averages, correlations, and tendencies, and I'll continue studying them.
Believe me; I want nothing more than to find connections like this to catch more fish. I’ve been reading articles and books and everything else I could find on this subject since before I was really fishing for muskies. I’ve read so many articles that talk about this subject, but none of which have ever really given any real quantifiable and qualitative proof on the matter. More often all you get is a story about one particular situation, or even a few fish on a particular week of fishing that fulfilled the relationship. Very often when I’ve tried to replicate the experience it hasn’t happened and the more I studied these articles, the more I see that they don’t even usually give you the whole story. Were all other conditions the same, when the results weren’t favorable? Probably not, but articles that don’t make certain and seemingly valid conclusions don’t sell magazines.
While I took the authors and experts advice on the matter as gospel as I grew up and became more and more experienced with muskies, but some things I’m less convinced of than others. Other than the fact that humans have been enamored by the moon and the sun since there has been humans, I don’t really understand how it could affect fish. I can see how a full moon night versus a new moon night can affect fish visibility and predatory/prey skills when it is night time, but beyond that it is simply earth’s shadow we are discussing. I have absolutely no idea what moon-rise, moon-set, moon above, moon underfoot could have on a fish. I’m pretty good at physics and understand forces such as gravity, but what does that have to do with when fish like to eat? Can anyone explain this to me? Are there any biologists reading this who can tell me why fish and deer respond to this situational stimulus?
Like I’ve said, I fish whenever and as much as I can, so the solunar tables don’t hold much weight on my fishing schedule. For those of you who can pick and choose the hour to be on prime muskie water when ever you want, I am certainly envious and hope to one day be in your position. The thing I don’t understand is why I hear guys talk about how the moon made all the difference in catching a couple individual fish in a week that 100+ muskies were boated all around them, and everyone was fishing morning to night regardless. I suppose it makes no difference to talk about their beliefs whether they are right or not.
Have you ever considered some of us looked for the connection and then found one? You have it backwards, there, slick.
The notion I hear more often than paying attention to solunar table is a waste of time, is that if you don’t pay attention to solunar tables you are wasting your time. I don’t necessarily believe either statement is true, but if I had to draw the line then until I see further evidence to support them, then I will focus my time and energy on the other factors I can control. As no one has a real vested interest, other than me, to change my opinion and provide such evidence, besides publishing another situational article, I guess I will probably stay on that side of the debate at my own sacrifice.
I admit that my statements are belittling to those believe wholeheartedly in the moon relationships, and for that I do apologize as I don’t really intend to insult or offend anyone. I don’t like the way some guys tell me if I don’t do this then I don’t know what I’m doing, and really don’t want to be in that same boat. I do enjoy the poll results as was my main objective, if you will, and it is reassuring to see that 46% of anglers here have found that connection. I guess the other half isn’t looking hard enough or at all which seems logical enough. I just have always had issue with being told to believe something which I have to work at like that and still don’t see it.
Thanks for the Debate,
Ryan
| |
| | |
| Like I mentioned, those that target the 55 plus inch type of fish they become very useful, if you just want to catch fish and are happy with 30- low 50 inch fish, it is probably not as important. Each angler has their own goals and focuses, the sad part of many of the responses here is that they can only see in their own little world and draw large generalizations...I am guessing some of them have never even fished waters where the giants roam. It never hurts to put the odds in your favor and on some waters it is the only way to move the Gorillas...BR | |
| | |
Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | Fishwizard - 8/3/2010 5:30 PM
Believe me; I want nothing more than to find connections like this to catch more fish.
Here is how you prove it to your self then. Over the next 3-4 weeks, only fish within 1-2 hours either side of the major/minor, even if that means fishing from 1-3 AM and I think you will become a believer. Rather than being a skeptic, become a student.... always something new to learn.
Best of luck!
Edited by THA4 8/3/2010 7:28 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sun, Moon, and Earth relationships differ from the moon charts some are talking about. Everyone has seen the difference between when all of nature is up and around, the field edges are full of grazing deer, the birds are flying and feeding, etc. and when the cows are sleeping, the gulls sitting on the rocks, no fish are feeding on the surface, and the deer are no where to be seen. What's with that..coincidence? I wanted to know so I could begin to find a path to repeating successful to wildly successful trips afield and on the water.
I began staying in the stand toward the end of season through lunch if a minor was at that time, when no one was pushing the deer, and many times when I could actually see the deer get up, shake off the cold, and get moving, and shot deer while my boys were in eating.
No, it doesn't always 'work', because I still have to be where the deer and fish and grouse etc. ARE when they move...obviously. no activity or lack thereof will effect your day if you are not where your quarry lives.
When stalking antelope, I found it to be productive when the animals were NOT active, and planned a few stalks around times when I felt the activity would be at a minimum. I knew where my targeted buck was, I just needed to get within 375 yards without that buck seeing me. Much easier if he was dozing.
I spent several months comparing years of fishing logs to barograph records and solunar tables, and found correlation that was effected by variables, but still defined. The variables were for the most part weather related, so it's as important to know what signs in nature are telling of a drop or rise in the barometer forecasting changes in the weather(even little ones), and all the variables need to be understood and recognized as completely as is possible. Some weather changes (you might not even notice them if you are not looking for it) made for good activity windows no matter the solunars, that is also an area of study I find fascinating.
There's no debate that the fish 'move' at times, and do not at others. This can be simplified for the sake of conversation to mean your presentation get's a higher response from the fish during that time, or lower, resulting in more activity with the net...or less. This isn't magic, it's heightened activity I HAVE to take advantage of to raise my success ratio, not a given or guarantee; it's still hunting and fishing skills that will get me where I need to be when I need to be there. Since a strike will not happen without a stimulus and a response, the level of response is critical. During the times when I feel response will be limited, I intentionally step up the stimulus...meaning either get right in the fish's face or rely upon speed and raising Cain to get a strike response from the fish I am SURE are where my lure is landing. When I know the fish are 'on', I'm usually fishing for specific fish and I move methodically, looking for that fish until I'm sure she's either slipped through, or isn't going to respond to the presentation. I may stay right there and try a different angle and lure...so sure am I she's there and susceptible, moving along a milk run of the Muskies I want to catch unless I'm unfamiliar with the water or the water is huge and I haven't been there long enough...finding it therefore tougher to pattern.
'Feeding' windows are a rare deal. That's when every fish in the system goes crazy for awhile, and everyone catches fish. No denying this happens, we've all experienced it. I want to know why.
I found that activity in all wildlife does cycle daily, and corresponds fairly well, considering the variables, to the major and minor solunar periods. Some weather patterns shut down activity to a minimum, and it's important to understand the whys of that as well, and react to the shorter, less punctuated windows by fishing high percentage fish or going 'pig huting'..basically swinging for the fence.
Sure, there is the big buck that appears suddenly during daylight hours not associated with any other activity or the 50" muskie that eats a lure mid day not associated with anything weather or solunar...and the why of THAT, too. The most important thing to understand is that 'activity periods' do NOT forecast success, they forecast a higher PROBABILITY of success. One still has to be dialed in on the fish or game, and be in the right place when they 'move'.
When I was guiding full time I was aware of the majors and minors, and tried to be on my best fish during those times, but fished hard and experienced success out of those periods too. Why? because I was where the fish were, and would get one to eat once in awhile because the lure is in front of the fish and I'm lucky enough to trigger one. That's fishing.
I don't pick my fishing times to match the tables unless I have a very limited time to fish, and need to pick that hour or two. Then, if I can, I'll choose a major or minor if one falls in my opportunity window. If not, I go fishing anyway because I want to go fishing.
I don't remember ever writing an article on this, but I do cover it in my seminars. I don't preach or demand anyone do anything I do, they may not be ABLE to because of location, season, or other issues. I try to get folks thinking as to the whys of things, which may lead to better understanding of the quarry, and therefore better success. Of course, it all still takes time on the water, and if you want really big fish...they have to be there, in reasonable numbers. If one has both and possesses good angling skills, then one can be a 'star'....
And I fail to see a problem with that. | |
| | |
Location: Contrarian Island | JerryB...of your 1600 muskies may I ask how many are over 50"?
and of those 50+ inchers if there are any ...did any happen to fall say within 30 minutes plus or minus a moon set, rise, underfoot or overhead...if so, what percentage? not that it only effects big fish...but maybe bigger fish are more susceptible to it than smaller fish...just seen it too many times to not believe it...
if you don't believe in the moon having an effect on fish activity (even though it effects humans and that can be proven) ..but there are many guys with way more muskies than 1600 in the boat and probably a lot more guys with 50+ inchers than you have landed, that do believe in it ...I'm not knocking your 1600 muskies but I do think there is something to it as I have witnessed it too many times imo for it to be a coincedence on when fish get active..again, for those that don't believe...fine...more for those that do .... ;o)
to me, there are those that don't believe and never will..maybe like JerryB and those that do believe and use it to their advantage.... imo if you think the moon and solunar influence has zero effect on fish ...you are missing something...
Edited by BNelson 8/3/2010 10:18 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 19
Location: Appleton | I see the moon being more powerful each and every year as I pay attention more, Im going to keep close tabs on it next week on LOTW and without a doubt the windows will open during those key times, we will be on top of our game and will produce. Cant wait! | |
| | |
Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | I like to think so, but I also have a fish whistle in my tackle box. Sunday morning 5 hours before moonset Sanks nails a 47" fish at the front of the boat without a ripple in 10 ft of 84 deg water. Make no sense being that 2 days before that we fished moonrise for a 5 hour span and didn't see a fish.
Bruce | |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Netman,
Read my last post. | |
| | |
Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | I hear you Steve.....I think it's more based on Karma, not that I'm a firm believer in that mythology, but there's a reason for everything. Why did Sanks catch that monster on Pewaukee Sunday morning when he didn't even want to cast but I helped his decision not to troll? The fish was hungry or ready to eat or just to rub it into my face again. LOL (fishing partners)
Netman | |
| | |
Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | " the thing I see is the guys who make the "connection: (that's funny) are also the ones who are looking the hardest for a connection.
You are exactly correct they are the ones who want it to be true. Keep looking boys, let us know how many fish the moon actually puts in the net... and I'll say "you had your bait at the "right depth", you moved it at the "right speed" and did so at the "right time", Nice job!"
If you want to believe in the moon, that's fine, I'm not saying there is nothing to it, but to me, and others there are far more important things to be considered, like getting to a lake as far as I can get with the money and time I have. I'll figure out the rest when I get there.
I don't get off the water when the so called "moon is right"..... I'm out there from the time I launch till the time the activity period ends, if I don't see something happen, which is rare, not saying I catch a fish every time, I'll stay till dark or as long as I can. Some how some of you guys get the idea that when the "moon is right" those of us who believe the weather and or water has more of an effect that any other single,, what ever you want to call it, we all get off the water... NO.
Have you ever considered some of us looked for the connection and then found one?
My point there bud, is in order to put a lot more fish in the boat the fishermen needs to focus his time on the things that he can control, depth/ speed, so simple but so hard for some.. especially for the really smart guys....
You have it backwards, there, slick.
Steve, You seem to know it all....
Backwards..... hu??? I'd be willing to wager ya there might be a few watching this thread who too might want to get a little backwards, LOL!!! I'll compare any spoonplugger's numbers to yours any day of the week! It's a slam for you, slick!
brad,
We all know it effects women, ha ha
that's 1603.... and I would NOT have caught a 1 without meeting Terry O'Malley and Buck Perry.
I think I'll keep doing what I'm doing, it seems to be working.
did any happen to fall say within 30 minutes plus or minus a moon set, rise, underfoot or overhead
A) I have no idea. The only thing I focus on is the weather and water conditions, If a front rolls through I know fishing is going to be tough for a day or two, depending on where I'm at, new lake or one I already know will determine how much time I'll give it under these conditions. If a bad front rolls through I don't care what the moon is doing, it's not going to turn on "the" big fish. FACT!
there are many guys with way more muskies than 1600 in the boat and probably a lot more guys with 50+ inchers than you have landed, that do believe in it ...
That's great for them, so what your saying is if I'm out on the water oblivious to the "right moon" that somehow if I'm a where of the good moon I could have caught a lot more, how many more? dam... I knew that old man Perry missed something.
Use your moon thing and tell me if on July 12th I should have caught fish or not because I didn't see many fishermen on the water that day..... I got em all day long. How many? 12 pike to 36", 2 sm bass, 10 walleye, including a 30", 26" 25", and 2-24", also the same day, 4 muskie, a 40", 42, and 2-46", the moon had to be on fire that day!!! and I was totally oblivious to it. The next day we pounded em again, not quite as good but then the front rolled through and on the 14th only 2 walleye and a couple pike. Moon or weather?
| |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Steve, You seem to know it all....
Backwards..... hu??? I'd be willing to wager ya there might be a few watching this thread who too might want to get a little backwards, LOL!!! I'll compare any spoonplugger's numbers to yours any day of the week! It's a slam for you, slick!'
The 'backwards' comment wasn't directed at you, but it is now. I was talking about what someone else, who then responded as forcefully, but reasonably and with mutual respect, --(unlike you)-- said about making the connection...I looked for one attempting to explain sudden activity periods that were NOT connected to weather, AND to explain those that seemed to be connected to weather, and did so comparing 15 years of logs to solunar tables and barograph records.
I'll argue I don't and have never claimed to ' know it all' (understatement of the year), but I have taken the time to carefully study the effects of solunars...and you apparently haven't. I also am trying to present my observations, data and argument reasonably, and you...aren't.
Spoonplugs.. was at it all the way back when I was a kid. My Dad was known as one of the Midwest's best at it for muskies back a very long time ago when a big boat was 16' and a big motor 25HP, so it's no huge mystery to me. Why don't I still use the tactic? Can't spoonplug here...no trolling allowed.
You really didn't address any of the questions that Brad put to you, you simply said you are on the water anyway, for all intents and purposes, went on about your lifetime totals, and made your case about solunar effects on fish and game by proclaiming your angling technique's superiority. The issue isn't what fish you say you caught on any one day or what your totals might be. Your argument disregarded much of what I said in my last post about weather and variables in your haste to try to dis me personally...but then, you already knew that.
| |
| | |
Location: Contrarian Island | JerryB, I don't think anyone is saying that the moon is the only factor..if you read what I have written I do say it could just be that extra little bit that does trigger fish to eat...weather does trump the moon, but I also think there are times that the moon is the trigger... you also say in your posts you put a lure in front of a fish at the right depth/speed/ and time...so how are you to know that the right time doesn't have something to do w/ the moons effect on the fish???
you don't...
you can throw out all the numbers you want but again, you didn't answer my question..how many 50s have you caught?
to me, there are those whose results on big fish, not just numbers is something to look at and figure out what they are doing...they aren't spoonplugging there way around a lake and catching LOTS of fish over 50"...some in the 55+ range...are you?
I have seen it too many times to not believe in it to some degree...again, it is just one of the many factors that can / could make a fish hit...to me it is just one of the things to watch when fishing ...and be on the right spot when you think it 'could' trigger a fish....
| |
| | |
Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | about 5 yrs ago I caught 18 muskies for the season,this was before I new anything about the moon phases,I listened to chad cains seminar about moon phases at the chicago show.I looked back at the times I caught the fish,and 13 out of the 18 were within an hour from a moon phase,either before or after.a few were right on almost to the minute,including the 2 biggest.I haven`t had a year like that with so many muskies being close to a moon phase since,but ever since then I have been a believer,I have noticed follows around the moon when the fishing is real real slow,kinda like it helped but not enough to get the fish to eat. | |
| | |
| Sorry for my ignorance, but what does major and minor signify? High and low? | |
| | |
Posts: 272
| sworrall - 7/22/2010 11:12 PM
This fall, watch the Knight Solunar tables. I use them, and can't tell you how many times I'm in the woods when everyone else left for lunch. I passed on lunch because of a Major or Minor...and the deer move in numbers. Even better, many times I predicted I'd kill my buck while everyone else was eating lunch. my best three bucks were harvested center of a major, late morning to mid afternoon.
This isn't moon phase, totally different deal.
My trail camera supports the majors and minors with daytime and nighttime videos corresponding with solunar periods.
I've not ever followed the solunar stuff with deer, so I'm not going to argue it one way or another.
But Steve, couldn't some of your mid-day success hunting be attributed to the fact that you were in the woods.....and others weren't? They were walking in for lunch, which prolly means more deer were walking around because they got stepped on, or a deer that got stepped on walked by your buck and caused him to get up and move and then he walked by you at mid-day???
I've killed lots of deer. To me, the mid day thing, at least during rifle season, works because other people leave their stand at that time. During the rut, I'd say the 9 am - 2 pm was definitely key for deer movement while bowhunting, for me,....but I believe this is partially because of other reasons.
Edited by muskie-addict 8/30/2010 11:40 AM
| |
| | |
Posts: 32883
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Nope. private land, no one anywhere around me, no other hunters even close to me and certainly no one walking around.... natural movement, grazing through and up moving around.
So short answer is absolutely not. | |
| | |
Posts: 8772
| Anybody who has ever spent any time paying attention to what goes on around them out in the woods or on the water will tell you there's more going on in nature than just the obvious influences. While you'll never be able to attribute direct solunar influence to each and every fish encounter, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've got too many pictures of me holding fish for the last 35+ years that show the moon right on the horizon to believe there's not something to it.
You can watch the wildlife on the ride to the lake and have a pretty good idea whether the fish are moving or not. What you can't always do, and most haven't taken the time to do, is try to figure out WHY everything suddenly started moving when it did.
I fish when I can, so solunar activity doesn't change when or how I fish. I may wait a few hours to take a break and eat if I'm in the middle of a major, but that's about it.
Thos of you who want to believe it's just BS? You go right ahead. Maybe some day I'll wake up and think I know everything there is to know about fishing, and be able to dismiss things like solunar influence. Until then? Well, my fishing logs seem to indicate otherwise. | |
| | |
Posts: 3
| good luck for all,happy to join here,thankyou
microsoft office 2010
Microsoft Office 2007
| |
| |
|
What do you believe?