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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | Whats the opinion of the masses on installing a water seperator because of the effects of ethanol on outboard engines?
thanks, Rob |
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Posts: 444
Location: Duluth, MN | I was on the fence last year but i went ahead and did it. Put on a 10 micron Yamaha filter at the begining of the year. Went to change it in the fall and it was FULL of water...i was shocked. Paid $35 for it i think the Racor brand is a little more but they have a see through bowl so you can tell how much water is in it. Replacement filters are only 10 bucks or so. Definetly worth the money. I have a 2003 115 Yamaha 4 stroke. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | ABSOLUTELY use a fuel/water separator!!!! There is no reason to not run one. They are cheap insurance and should be standard compliment on any fuel system. Yamaha recomends two things with there motors- running Ring Free and using a 10 micron fuel/water separator. You should be able to find the 60 or 90 gph filters for like $15 and should replace them every 50 hrs or 100 or the Racor. They're easy to install and will extend the life, if not save your motor from water injestion as well as keep your injectors clean and (at least for Yammies) injector overhaul/cleaning is expensive. |
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Posts: 348
| stupid question but if your putting in stabil fuel treatment for marine use is this not enough? |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Nope. Stabil does nothing to prevent a slug of water or entrained water from being sucked into the motor and destroying a piston, nor does it filter out particulate contaminants from clogging injectors. I know alot of guys run boats and motors without them, and have for years with no problems. But for the $50 it costs to buy and install one, and the $15 every few months (or yearly, depending on use) for new filters, it's just cheap insurance and should be standard equipment IMO. |
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Posts: 348
| thanks esox.so can i assume you just cut the main gas line a put the fuel separator in between the gas tank an motor? |
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Posts: 348
| i just bought a new 2010 90/65 jet motorto run the river where i liveits a merc...im suprized they didnt install one in the boat.id like to put one in but dont know where to start.. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | lehighmuskies - 7/4/2010 1:29 PM
thanks esox.so can i assume you just cut the main gas line a put the fuel separator in between the gas tank an motor?
Yep. Install it before the primer bulb. It's very easy. Just put it somewhere easy to get to so changing filters (even on the water if need be) is doable. Also, try to keep from installing it over a battery or electrical components, and if possible, not in the same compartment as them either. Piece of cake. Two screws (or bolts, depending on application), two hose clamps and you're done. |
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Posts: 348
| esox is there a way that this could already be mounted under the cover of my motor? im curious or do all these fuel seperators mount below the bulb pump?
Also weres a good store to purchase one online? |
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Posts: 444
Location: Duluth, MN | I can take a picture of my install and post it tomorrow. I just have it mounted on the inside of the transom. boats.net has them pretty reasonably. Here is the one i have.
http://www.boats.net/index.php?p=product&id=921319&parent=29
Doesn't matter if you have a yamaha or not they all work the same. You can also do a google search for "racor" and find those. |
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Posts: 16
| http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_gas/r_gas.html |
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Posts: 444
Location: Duluth, MN | Here's a pic of my install.
Attachments
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 filer.jpg (178KB - 241 downloads)
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Posts: 294
Location: New Jersey | Can i just install the fuel filter/water separator before the "T" junction for my main and kicker motor? this way one filter protects both motors.
thanks, Rob |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Yeah you could do that. Just remember that the "life" of the filter would be less than if you were only filtering one motor. |
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Posts: 897
| I have a 1996 Merc 150 EFI. Last summer I had an issue with water getting into my gas tank when the gas tank cover was open on LOTW. When I took it to the mechanic to figure out what the issue was with the oil alarm going off, he drained a bunch of water out of the fuel filter. If the fuel filter is already filtering out the water, would it still be worth it to install a ethanol water separator? |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | The filter system I installed last year (Merc/Tohatsu) has two input and two outputs. I hooked up one input from the gas tank and then my main motor and kicker on the two outputs and just plugged off the other input. Now both my main motor and kicker can benefit from the additional filtering. One thing to remember is if you do this and your main motor has an electric fuel pump you have to put a check valve inline with your kicker motor. If you run both motors at the same time without a check valve the main motors pump with starve the kicker.
Also I'm not sure about the Yamaha systems posted but for some reason the ones I looked at said not to install where it would be in direct sunlight. Not sure why but I did get mine out of lighted areas. Did the Yamaha brand say to do this?
For the $25 bucks it cost me and at $7 for replacement filters that I can purchase locally (which makes it convenient) its well worth the additional particle filtration let alone having some water holding capabilities. I don't get to hung up on the particle filter ratings as without an efficiency rating it doesn't mean much. But I know there is more filtering taking place and I'm happy about that. |
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| You better check your owners manual of your motor before you do this. It is not recommended on most Merc optis. The EFI's may be ok but check first. This may cause an unneeded fuel flow restriction that could cause a lean running condition which is not good. The optis have a water sensing fuel /water separator already. As far as those additives, sure they help. However. ethanol attracks water and fuel can only hold so much ater before it separates and phase separation occurs. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | whynot - 3/27/2011 2:51 PM
I have a 1996 Merc 150 EFI. Last summer I had an issue with water getting into my gas tank when the gas tank cover was open on LOTW. When I took it to the mechanic to figure out what the issue was with the oil alarm going off, he drained a bunch of water out of the fuel filter. If the fuel filter is already filtering out the water, would it still be worth it to install a ethanol water separator?
In my opinion, by all means, YES! You can buy and install a brand new fuel/water separator for like $50 or less, and then filters are $15 and up depending on maker. Water will kill a motor instantly. What's it worth to you to keep water out of your motor? It's cheap insurance and I consider it to be standard equipment on a boat. |
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| probably a dumb question but how can you tell if water is in there? I have a yamaha fuel water seperator for a 50HP yamaha. I change it once a year and ever time i take it off it smells full of gasoline not water. |
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Posts: 31
Location: Pa. | When are they going to invent a Ethanol separator ? |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | The spin on filters media absorbs free water and some emulsified water from the fuel. So that is gas in the filter that your seeing/smelling, the water is trapped in the filter media. Filters usually have a water holding capacitry rating (# mL or gr) but there's no way of knowing how much is in your system or when the filter has reached capacity. If you have had water issues in the past then I would change the filter more frequently but if you're doing this just as a precaution measure then seasonal should be ok. Better to remove some than none I guess.
Edited by Targa01 3/28/2011 4:45 PM
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| thanks. always here people saying "mine was full of water" but all i ever find is gasoline. that makes sense though. come to think of it, i guess i change it out twice a year. once in the winter and usually before my week trip somewhere. |
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Posts: 17
| For the price of a new motor it is cheap Insurance I almost learned the hard way last year took a trp to canada and the place i stayed at supplied free gas with stay I got 15 gallons from them and my 225 evinrude didnt run wright got back and dealer mechanic told me i had water in my fuel we drained it all out and it ran fine with new gas they told me i was lucky i didnt mess up a injector or worse blow a piston with it miss fireing. bought a water seperator from bass pro shops and was a easy install (Be wary of gas that sits in above tanks because they condensate with temp changes I was told) |
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| CPT - 3/28/2011 3:06 PM
probably a dumb question but how can you tell if water is in there? I have a yamaha fuel water seperator for a 50HP yamaha. I change it once a year and ever time i take it off it smells full of gasoline not water.
The media in the filter will stop it, but there'll still be a "slug" of water in the bottom. Racor filters have a plastic bottom to them with a poppit valve where you can see and drain the slug. When I change my Yamaha filters, I drain them into a bottle or glass and let them sit for a bit and you'll see the slug coagulate on the bottom. It's good to analyze your fuel and make sure it's good...color, sediment, amount of water, etc. If there's water in it, let it settle and you'll see it. |
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Posts: 17
| Esoxfly thats a great idea thanks since i have the filter without the glass bowl Thanks |
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Posts: 87
Location: Red Wing, Minnesota | When you change your filter/separator, pour it into a glass jar and let it sit for a while. Water will phase out to the bottom of the jar and then you will know.
Some recommend installing an additional primer bulb upstream of the separator. Apparently people have had problems trying to prime thru some separators with the downstream bulb. Best way to see would be to try priming after changing the filter. If it won't prime, consider installing a 2nd one upstream.
I did this on my F115 with the Yamaha separator. No issues. |
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Posts: 512
| Just installed one on my boat today, read in the instructions that its not recommended for motors with electronic fuel pumps.. so, does this mean EFI motors?? says on the website you can use them for EFIs.
Seems to work ok, havent had it on the lake to run it full speed tho..
what do you guys think??
thanks
Dave |
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Posts: 87
Location: Red Wing, Minnesota | My F115 is EFI. Installed the Yamaha screw-on canister filter as recommended.
No issues. |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | On my 98' Merc 200 EFI there is a fuel / water seperator filter located inside the cowling. It works very well as my bass boat gets water in the tanks often. I push the limits sometimes (nice way of saying I sank it). The bottom of the filter has a threaded hole for the water sensor that's supposed to turn an alarm on when it senses water in the filter. I removed it and put a petcock and plastic tube on it. Every once in the while I drain the filter into a plastic water bottle, which lets me check for water. There really is no need to change a fuel filter every year, just drain the water out of it while winterizing and if you find water do it more often. The most probable place that water will get into the tank is through your breather. There are better designed breathers available but they usually take up more room too.
Be carefull with the add on water seperator filters, most are not USCG rated to be installed inside a compartment.
Edited by Jomusky 4/15/2011 12:08 PM
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Posts: 512
| just checked my install that i did last week for leaks, and now i have one around
the primer bulb.. had to add hoses, so i put on hose clamps.. Do you think
i may have over tightened those? also have a union to the motor that leaks as well! ugh..
any suggestions?
Dave |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
is it a leak where fuel is coming out? If so, it might be that the clamps are not tight enough.. Shouldn't take much to seal it, but worst case scenario is to use some automotive sealer (black) that you could put on the barbs, then slide the hose on, clamp and let it set up. Sealers that work for gaskets and are impervious to fuel and/or alcohol would be the ticket... Only down side is if you have to take things apart, you have to clean all the stuff off before putting it all back together again...
Steve |
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Posts: 512
| Yes it is fuel.. was fine when i first did it, noticed a leak a few days after..
I tightened the clamps yesterday, still seems to be leaking..
thanks for the suggestions, i will try them..
Dave |
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| I was wondering if water/fuel separators will work on outboards using pre-mix fuel? is there any danger of it removing the oil from from fuel? |
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don,
The separator will work fine on a two stroke premixed. |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | Dave T. - 4/17/2011 4:25 PM
just checked my install that i did last week for leaks, and now i have one around
the primer bulb.. had to add hoses, so i put on hose clamps.. Do you think
i may have over tightened those? also have a union to the motor that leaks as well! ugh..
any suggestions?
Dave
hmm... Are you using the correct tube size & hosebarb size? Is your tubing old & stiff? If it is stiff, it may not be conforming uniformly around the barb. Take some pics and post them.
another some tip, the first barb does all the sealing (if it has multiple barbs). When you install your hoseclamp, make sure it is behind the first barb and not on top of it. Hose clamps are to hold the tubing in place, not seal. |
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Posts: 512
| it was the new bulb i installed that was the problem.. returned it and redid it
with separate hose and bulb, and seems to be working fine now..
thanks for the help!
Dave
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